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"Natural foods" vs "others"
Replies
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nettiklive wrote: »Y'know, as I was growing up, I was exposed to DDT in substantial quantities (it was sprayed by the pounds by a big tractor/trailer-mounted blower all around my house, as well as in most of the public parks, many times a season, to kill mosquitos). About a quarter mile up the road, a big dairy farm (sitting on the same aquifer as our drinking water well) lost not one but two complete herds of cows to the PBB contamination crisis in the 1970s. The second herd was buried on the site. I could go on.
So, I figure I don't have to worry, I'm already dead.
Nowadays, <squints, hitches up britches> I ain't skeered of any ol' dumb Doritos.
Seriously: While some attentiveness and concern is rational about effects of the huge array of products that have come into being (and close contact with us) in the last few decades, often with an assumption that they're safe rather than testing, a state of constant obsessive anxiety about it is probably a bigger health threat in itself than whatever we're getting from McD's fries once or twice a week, polysyllabic preservatives in foods we eat by the teaspoon, the cleaning product we use a few times a year on the stubborn stain on our countertop, etc.
As happened with DDT, the most dangerous thing is quite possibly something we don't even know about yet. (DDT was seen as a great savior back in the day: Got rid of the ubiquitous bed bugs, lice, fleas, and more; reduced the diseases they spread - or was believed to do so.) It could be anything. Maybe we'll discover that dryer lint causes cancer. ( ).
Will the chemicals get us? Global warming? One of the other many potential consequence of our modern life? Or not? Who knows. There's no big point in worry about the *baby-feline* Doritos, in any case, if you ask me. Mental health is important, too.
Why do people assume that avoiding certain types of food or product equals living in a state of constant anxiety about it?? I feel absolutely zero anxiety about not eating junk food
But how do you know?5 -
nettiklive wrote: »
Oh, and BTW - there are regulations in place in the food industry so you don't have to worry about whether or not your meat has been "fed and shot with god knows what". Food manufacturers/producers aren't nearly as evil in real life as they are in your fantasies.
This is all just more orthorexia and fearmongering. Nothing more.
Hmmm really? So scandals like DDT where something is promoted as totally fine, until cancers and birth defects begin, never happened? How many times in history did corporations produce something, only to go 'whoops' decades later and end up with the substance banned or restricted? That however doesn't help those who have already suffered the consequences (and mind you, not everyone does). And this, for the most part, happens with artificially produced substances, not ones occurring in nature. Though these also exist, and I try to avoid natural foods that are potential cancerogens or endocrine disrupters, such as soy for children or even overly burnt toast. Same with additives, that may be totally harmless, or may, in twenty years, emerge to be associated with cancer or other issues. Its easy enough to avoid them (not fanatically but minimize), to where it's one of the easiest risk to.mitigate in an environment that's already not too healthy.[/quote]
I heard on the radio (forget which show) someone ask "what if oxygen is poison that just kills us really slowly?"
There are lots of scary things that could happen in daily life. I'm not going to worry about overly browned toast.
ETA: I hate it when the quotes get all screwed up.9 -
nettiklive wrote: »Y'know, as I was growing up, I was exposed to DDT in substantial quantities (it was sprayed by the pounds by a big tractor/trailer-mounted blower all around my house, as well as in most of the public parks, many times a season, to kill mosquitos). About a quarter mile up the road, a big dairy farm (sitting on the same aquifer as our drinking water well) lost not one but two complete herds of cows to the PBB contamination crisis in the 1970s. The second herd was buried on the site. I could go on.
So, I figure I don't have to worry, I'm already dead.
Nowadays, <squints, hitches up britches> I ain't skeered of any ol' dumb Doritos.
Seriously: While some attentiveness and concern is rational about effects of the huge array of products that have come into being (and close contact with us) in the last few decades, often with an assumption that they're safe rather than testing, a state of constant obsessive anxiety about it is probably a bigger health threat in itself than whatever we're getting from McD's fries once or twice a week, polysyllabic preservatives in foods we eat by the teaspoon, the cleaning product we use a few times a year on the stubborn stain on our countertop, etc.
As happened with DDT, the most dangerous thing is quite possibly something we don't even know about yet. (DDT was seen as a great savior back in the day: Got rid of the ubiquitous bed bugs, lice, fleas, and more; reduced the diseases they spread - or was believed to do so.) It could be anything. Maybe we'll discover that dryer lint causes cancer. ( ).
Will the chemicals get us? Global warming? One of the other many potential consequence of our modern life? Or not? Who knows. There's no big point in worry about the *baby-feline* Doritos, in any case, if you ask me. Mental health is important, too.
Why do people assume that avoiding certain types of food or product equals living in a state of constant anxiety about it?? I feel absolutely zero anxiety about not eating junk food
Where did I say this was about you?
There are a few people around me who seem to regularly spend a surprising fraction of their intellectual and emotional bandwidth worrying about things like food additives, environmental toxins, cleaning products, "beauty" products, etc.
It's not always necessarily "a state of constant anxiety" (I may've indulged in a bit of hyperbole ), but IMO a waste of energy and time that leaves them less happy in their daily lives than they IMO reasonably could be, given their general high standard of living, reasonable state of health, etc. Most don't actually study up on this stuff (beyond the alarmist blogosphere and Facebook memes), become activist, or otherwise take action, they mostly just worry, in a poorly informed, perhaps anti-scientific way.
At the same time, some of them don't seem similarly preoccupied about things that are statistically bigger threats to them and theirs, or (often) about things they actually influence or control that very likely are larger factors in their health and odds of longevity (driving habits, exercise, etc.).
It just seems odd to me. I've said I think some of these things may be potentially of concern, but I find the energy devoted to worry disproportionate and not especially useful. If I don't have the interest or energy to chase down real science on a subject, I don't have the energy to fret about it.
I wonder, sometimes, if there's a mental health analog to the immune system: There seems to be some reason to believe that those who over-sanitize their surroundings leave their immune system with too much time on its hands, so it goes off and creates allergies or some such thing to amuse itself. Maybe some people who lead too-fortunate lives manufacture themselves statistically trivial things to worry about?
I'd admit that some of the things you write here remind me of some of the things I hear from "modernity-anxious"** people IRL. But I don't know you at all, beyond the few paragraphs you write. There's no basis for amateur psychoanalysis.
** For lack of a better summary term.7 -
There was a couple deaths because people used tap water in a nettipot to wash their nasal passages. Should we not swim in lakes because this could possibly happen to us?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tap-water-in-neti-pots-behind-two-brain-eating-amoeba-deaths-in-2011-investigation-finds/
It's unreasonable for most to avoid anything and everything that could potentially make us sick one day. It's much easier to weigh out the risks using our best judgement and not sweat the small stuff.10 -
There are too many competing websites and the new formulas to drive people to their sites are trolling and/or sensationalism. It is easy to scare people about chemicals in their food because it sounds ominous. Then they link them to numerous health problems which are also scary. Many of the people who have these illnesses have probably eaten potato chips and big macs so there you have it.
It is a beautiful strategy. You create these unwitting shills to go out, get into debates, and post links back to "the proof". Not only will the next gullible person read it but so will the people who have to read it to disprove the argument. Who cares why they are there because ad money is being made.
The website owners doing it don't have to feel bad because the worst they are guilty of is keeping people from eating "junk" food.5 -
nettiklive wrote: »Y'know, as I was growing up, I was exposed to DDT in substantial quantities (it was sprayed by the pounds by a big tractor/trailer-mounted blower all around my house, as well as in most of the public parks, many times a season, to kill mosquitos). About a quarter mile up the road, a big dairy farm (sitting on the same aquifer as our drinking water well) lost not one but two complete herds of cows to the PBB contamination crisis in the 1970s. The second herd was buried on the site. I could go on.
So, I figure I don't have to worry, I'm already dead.
Nowadays, <squints, hitches up britches> I ain't skeered of any ol' dumb Doritos.
Seriously: While some attentiveness and concern is rational about effects of the huge array of products that have come into being (and close contact with us) in the last few decades, often with an assumption that they're safe rather than testing, a state of constant obsessive anxiety about it is probably a bigger health threat in itself than whatever we're getting from McD's fries once or twice a week, polysyllabic preservatives in foods we eat by the teaspoon, the cleaning product we use a few times a year on the stubborn stain on our countertop, etc.
As happened with DDT, the most dangerous thing is quite possibly something we don't even know about yet. (DDT was seen as a great savior back in the day: Got rid of the ubiquitous bed bugs, lice, fleas, and more; reduced the diseases they spread - or was believed to do so.) It could be anything. Maybe we'll discover that dryer lint causes cancer. ( ).
Will the chemicals get us? Global warming? One of the other many potential consequence of our modern life? Or not? Who knows. There's no big point in worry about the *baby-feline* Doritos, in any case, if you ask me. Mental health is important, too.
Why do people assume that avoiding certain types of food or product equals living in a state of constant anxiety about it?? I feel absolutely zero anxiety about not eating junk food
Where did I say this was about you?
There are a few people around me who seem to regularly spend a surprising fraction of their intellectual and emotional bandwidth worrying about things like food additives, environmental toxins, cleaning products, "beauty" products, etc.
It's not always necessarily "a state of constant anxiety" (I may've indulged in a bit of hyperbole ), but IMO a waste of energy and time that leaves them less happy in their daily lives than they IMO reasonably could be, given their general high standard of living, reasonable state of health, etc. Most don't actually study up on this stuff (beyond the alarmist blogosphere and Facebook memes), become activist, or otherwise take action, they mostly just worry, in a poorly informed, perhaps anti-scientific way.
At the same time, some of them don't seem similarly preoccupied about things that are statistically bigger threats to them and theirs, or (often) about things they actually influence or control that very likely are larger factors in their health and odds of longevity (driving habits, exercise, etc.).
It just seems odd to me. I've said I think some of these things may be potentially of concern, but I find the energy devoted to worry disproportionate and not especially useful. If I don't have the interest or energy to chase down real science on a subject, I don't have the energy to fret about it.
I wonder, sometimes, if there's a mental health analog to the immune system: There seems to be some reason to believe that those who over-sanitize their surroundings leave their immune system with too much time on its hands, so it goes off and creates allergies or some such thing to amuse itself. Maybe some people who lead too-fortunate lives manufacture themselves statistically trivial things to worry about?
I'd admit that some of the things you write here remind me of some of the things I hear from "modernity-anxious"** people IRL. But I don't know you at all, beyond the few paragraphs you write. There's no basis for amateur psychoanalysis.
** For lack of a better summary term.
You really don't have to ever say it's about a narcissist. They cannot comprehend a reality outside of their current feelings.3 -
I've got just one life to live. People can do what they want, but I refuse to spend it being scared of burnt toast.
10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I've got just one life to live. People can do what they want, but I refuse to spend it being scared of burnt toast.
But it has the carcengines!! Plus, it can burn you.
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janejellyroll wrote: »I've got just one life to live. People can do what they want, but I refuse to spend it being scared of burnt toast.
But it has the carcengines!! Plus, it can burn you.
Or give you those little abrasions on the roof of your mouth . . . maybe the anti-toast brigade is on to something here.2 -
Heck the sun is a top carcinogen.
If you want to keep yourself up at night, consider the amount of odourless colourless, naturally occurring radon gas lurking in your basement.4 -
nettiklive wrote: »Y'know, as I was growing up, I was exposed to DDT in substantial quantities (it was sprayed by the pounds by a big tractor/trailer-mounted blower all around my house, as well as in most of the public parks, many times a season, to kill mosquitos). About a quarter mile up the road, a big dairy farm (sitting on the same aquifer as our drinking water well) lost not one but two complete herds of cows to the PBB contamination crisis in the 1970s. The second herd was buried on the site. I could go on.
So, I figure I don't have to worry, I'm already dead.
Nowadays, <squints, hitches up britches> I ain't skeered of any ol' dumb Doritos.
Seriously: While some attentiveness and concern is rational about effects of the huge array of products that have come into being (and close contact with us) in the last few decades, often with an assumption that they're safe rather than testing, a state of constant obsessive anxiety about it is probably a bigger health threat in itself than whatever we're getting from McD's fries once or twice a week, polysyllabic preservatives in foods we eat by the teaspoon, the cleaning product we use a few times a year on the stubborn stain on our countertop, etc.
As happened with DDT, the most dangerous thing is quite possibly something we don't even know about yet. (DDT was seen as a great savior back in the day: Got rid of the ubiquitous bed bugs, lice, fleas, and more; reduced the diseases they spread - or was believed to do so.) It could be anything. Maybe we'll discover that dryer lint causes cancer. ( ).
Will the chemicals get us? Global warming? One of the other many potential consequence of our modern life? Or not? Who knows. There's no big point in worry about the *baby-feline* Doritos, in any case, if you ask me. Mental health is important, too.
Why do people assume that avoiding certain types of food or product equals living in a state of constant anxiety about it?? I feel absolutely zero anxiety about not eating junk food
But by your own admission you do eat "junk food." Buying a cupcake from a higher-priced trendy bakery in a nice neighborhood that says "no GMOs" does not make the cupcake (or whatever) not junk food vs. the grocery store bakery birthday cake some other (clearly worse)* mom might provide.
Similarly, processed does not mean junk food. Those terrible soups from Safeway that you avoid aren't junk food by any reasonable meaning of the term.
I actually do (mostly) avoid a lot of things without it being a negative to my mental health. Mostly this is because I avoid them because I don't care for them (I don't like a lot of so called fast food, so avoiding it seems pointless, really, do you avoid stuff you don't want?), but if for some reason it's convenient to have them -- and here I'm talking more generally about anything convenience oriented -- why not? Or why claim that those who do must not care about their health?
I used to be really into the idea of eating only "natural" (although my mind is such that I was quite aware that much of what I ate -- like homemade pasta, coffee, any product out of season or not able to grow where I lived, for just a few examples -- didn't actually meet that definition). I don't think it was healthy for me to think it was bad to eat something like dried pasta or canned tomatoes, rather it was silly and made it harder to just have a healthy diet without everything having to be so much work and it made me feel like I was failing if I didn't keep up with my own pointless standards. Now I try to not be into these buzz words like "natural" or "clean" and just look practically at what I eat -- what nutrients does it contribute? do I enjoy it, or am I eating it just because it's there? So on. Works much better for me than a kind of superstitious idea that if a food isn't "natural" under some definition it must be bad. I still mostly cook from whole foods and eat lots of veg and all that, since that's consistent with what I think a healthy diet is and what I enjoy.6 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »Y'know, as I was growing up, I was exposed to DDT in substantial quantities (it was sprayed by the pounds by a big tractor/trailer-mounted blower all around my house, as well as in most of the public parks, many times a season, to kill mosquitos). About a quarter mile up the road, a big dairy farm (sitting on the same aquifer as our drinking water well) lost not one but two complete herds of cows to the PBB contamination crisis in the 1970s. The second herd was buried on the site. I could go on.
So, I figure I don't have to worry, I'm already dead.
Nowadays, <squints, hitches up britches> I ain't skeered of any ol' dumb Doritos.
Seriously: While some attentiveness and concern is rational about effects of the huge array of products that have come into being (and close contact with us) in the last few decades, often with an assumption that they're safe rather than testing, a state of constant obsessive anxiety about it is probably a bigger health threat in itself than whatever we're getting from McD's fries once or twice a week, polysyllabic preservatives in foods we eat by the teaspoon, the cleaning product we use a few times a year on the stubborn stain on our countertop, etc.
As happened with DDT, the most dangerous thing is quite possibly something we don't even know about yet. (DDT was seen as a great savior back in the day: Got rid of the ubiquitous bed bugs, lice, fleas, and more; reduced the diseases they spread - or was believed to do so.) It could be anything. Maybe we'll discover that dryer lint causes cancer. ( ).
Will the chemicals get us? Global warming? One of the other many potential consequence of our modern life? Or not? Who knows. There's no big point in worry about the *baby-feline* Doritos, in any case, if you ask me. Mental health is important, too.
Why do people assume that avoiding certain types of food or product equals living in a state of constant anxiety about it?? I feel absolutely zero anxiety about not eating junk food
But by your own admission you do eat "junk food." Buying a cupcake from a higher-priced trendy bakery in a nice neighborhood that says "no GMOs" does not make the cupcake (or whatever) not junk food vs. the grocery store bakery birthday cake some other (clearly worse)* mom might provide.
Similarly, processed does not mean junk food. Those terrible soups from Safeway that you avoid aren't junk food by any reasonable meaning of the term.
It's not "junk food" because there is an extremely personal and subjective definition of "junk food" in play here.
An expensive cupcake from a high end bakery would never be "junk food" to this person, while a cupcake with identical macros from a bakery that uses less prestigious ingredients would be "junk food."
It's a pretty neat trick, I guess.
8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »It's not "junk food" because there is an extremely personal and subjective definition of "junk food" in play here.
An expensive cupcake from a high end bakery would never be "junk food" to this person, while a cupcake with identical macros from a bakery that uses less prestigious ingredients would be "junk food."
It's a pretty neat trick, I guess.
The better trick is they both use the same ingredients but the high end bakery is paying 4 times the rent to be in a premium location so the cupcakes just cost more. It could even be that the cheaper bakery uses better ingredients because they can afford it without jacking up the price.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
Why am I supposed to be worried about my granite countertops? That one is new to me.
My AC still uses the old refrigerant that is being pulled from the market = Super Stressed
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
Why am I supposed to be worried about my granite countertops? That one is new to me.
My AC still uses the old refrigerant that is being pulled from the market = Super Stressed
Chances are your granite counter tops might have some residual trace of naturally occurring radiation...
Feel free to worry. Or not. Doesn't make a smidgen of difference.
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ladyreva78 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
Why am I supposed to be worried about my granite countertops? That one is new to me.
My AC still uses the old refrigerant that is being pulled from the market = Super Stressed
Chances are your granite counter tops might have some residual trace of naturally occurring radiation...
Feel free to worry. Or not. Doesn't make a smidgen of difference.
I licked a granite counter top once. Now I'm an Avenger.20 -
I thought everything had some degree of natural radiation.1
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