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Are Processed Foods "Bad"?
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Some processed foods are great. Some are pretty calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Can't make a blanket statement
I don't usually see people who claim to avoid processed foods to distinguish between the ones that are "great" and the one that are calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Besides, what's wrong with a delicious piece of cake on occasion esp if it's within the context of an overall balanced diet?
You can have cake and not have it be processed. i think it's about the ingredients. to me processed food contains chemicals (such as preservatives) that does not occur naturally in food. i personally avoid processed food such as margarine and stick with foods if they are boxed and canned that do not have preservatives. Sometimes this is hard such as coconut milk because it contains guar but I still eat it. Just keep in mind avoiding food that never goes bad.
Explanation of processed food based on Weston A. Price:
Unfortunately, in modern times, we have substituted local artisanal processing with factory and industrial processing, which actually diminishes the quality of the food, rather than making it more nutritious and digestible. Industrial processing depends upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-foods/dirty-secrets-of-the-food-processing-industry/
Can you show me the nearest cake tree? There's nothing about cake that is not processed.
My friuit cake contains only self ground almonds and raisins which currently I'm eating daily.
Both of which are processed...
...raw almonds are not processed...
I’m sure someone will claim that taking the shells off the almonds makes them processed!
Shelled, cleaned, pasteurized (even 'raw' ones). Sounds like processes to me.
^ Good point. All almonds sold in the U.S., even "raw" almonds, are pasteurized. Definitely sounds like processing to me.2 -
stevencloser wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Some processed foods are great. Some are pretty calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Can't make a blanket statement
I don't usually see people who claim to avoid processed foods to distinguish between the ones that are "great" and the one that are calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Besides, what's wrong with a delicious piece of cake on occasion esp if it's within the context of an overall balanced diet?
You can have cake and not have it be processed. i think it's about the ingredients. to me processed food contains chemicals (such as preservatives) that does not occur naturally in food. i personally avoid processed food such as margarine and stick with foods if they are boxed and canned that do not have preservatives. Sometimes this is hard such as coconut milk because it contains guar but I still eat it. Just keep in mind avoiding food that never goes bad.
Explanation of processed food based on Weston A. Price:
Unfortunately, in modern times, we have substituted local artisanal processing with factory and industrial processing, which actually diminishes the quality of the food, rather than making it more nutritious and digestible. Industrial processing depends upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-foods/dirty-secrets-of-the-food-processing-industry/
Can you show me the nearest cake tree? There's nothing about cake that is not processed.
use self rising flour, alternative sugars such as dates...
Self rising flour just has the baking powder already in it (plus salt), in addition to the fine-ground wheat (and maybe some "enriched" vitamin content). It's not "less processed"; it's "more processed". Date sugar has a whalloping lot of sucrose, just like table sugar (a.k.a. beet sugar, cane sugar).
But when I think of processed I thing of "Industrial processing depending upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains."
White flour is finely ground wheat berries without the bran that were whitened
Sugar is evaporated cane juice without the molasses
Butter is cream with most of the milk protein and moisture removed
Cooked natural food is heat treated
Most nuts are heat treated (you will never ever find truly raw cashews in stores because they can be toxic)
Self-rising flour is flour which has the most synthetic thing you can think of: baking powder
Foods with added sugar contain extracted sugars from a plant
Foods with date sugar contain extracted sugar from dates
Foods with actual dates contain sugar from dates plus other parts of the date
Can you see why the lines are blurred? If processing is going through heat, every single thing you cook is processed. If it means adding sugar, everything you mix with fruits is processed. If it means adding synthetic agents in the processed of growing/producing a product, some things you listed as unprocessed are processed and some things you think had no synthetics involved actually do (like many sorts of golden raisins).
I think "processed" is a term that means different things to different people because its actual meaning is "food that I consider worse for me".
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While cold pressed olive oil is processed it is not as highly processed and with chemicals to produce corn oil for example.
For me personally if sweetener and or any form of any grain was used to make the food then I consider it processed food. My boiled eggs without the shell setting in vinegar that I eat every morning are not processed food for my personal definition but yes they have been touched since leaving the chicken.
The ingredients on the label reads: fresh eggs, vinegar and spices. I have had to pass on some brands because of added sugar but these from the local WalMart do not have added sugar. Not sure what "fresh" means in this case. I always assumed these were made from fresh eggs AFTER they aged out on the shelf then got boiled.9 -
stevencloser wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Some processed foods are great. Some are pretty calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Can't make a blanket statement
I don't usually see people who claim to avoid processed foods to distinguish between the ones that are "great" and the one that are calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Besides, what's wrong with a delicious piece of cake on occasion esp if it's within the context of an overall balanced diet?
You can have cake and not have it be processed. i think it's about the ingredients. to me processed food contains chemicals (such as preservatives) that does not occur naturally in food. i personally avoid processed food such as margarine and stick with foods if they are boxed and canned that do not have preservatives. Sometimes this is hard such as coconut milk because it contains guar but I still eat it. Just keep in mind avoiding food that never goes bad.
Explanation of processed food based on Weston A. Price:
Unfortunately, in modern times, we have substituted local artisanal processing with factory and industrial processing, which actually diminishes the quality of the food, rather than making it more nutritious and digestible. Industrial processing depends upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-foods/dirty-secrets-of-the-food-processing-industry/
Can you show me the nearest cake tree? There's nothing about cake that is not processed.
use self rising flour, alternative sugars such as dates...
Self rising flour just has the baking powder already in it (plus salt), in addition to the fine-ground wheat (and maybe some "enriched" vitamin content). It's not "less processed"; it's "more processed". Date sugar has a whalloping lot of sucrose, just like table sugar (a.k.a. beet sugar, cane sugar).
does the sucrose make it processed? i think of processed differently. Basically all food we eat unless raw is considered process if you base it on your response. But when I think of processed I thing of "Industrial processing depending upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains."
Which oils are not processed? I've never seen an extra virgin olive tree with a tap on it that you turn to dispense oil. Or a canola plant that I can milk the oil out of. If I pick an avocado off a tree and cut it open, there's no oil inside to pour out into a handy container.
Sometimes I wonder if part of the arguments about "processed foods" stems from the fact that a lot of people really don't even have a clue as to where their foods even come from or how they're made/obtained.9 -
stevencloser wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Some processed foods are great. Some are pretty calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Can't make a blanket statement
I don't usually see people who claim to avoid processed foods to distinguish between the ones that are "great" and the one that are calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Besides, what's wrong with a delicious piece of cake on occasion esp if it's within the context of an overall balanced diet?
You can have cake and not have it be processed. i think it's about the ingredients. to me processed food contains chemicals (such as preservatives) that does not occur naturally in food. i personally avoid processed food such as margarine and stick with foods if they are boxed and canned that do not have preservatives. Sometimes this is hard such as coconut milk because it contains guar but I still eat it. Just keep in mind avoiding food that never goes bad.
Explanation of processed food based on Weston A. Price:
Unfortunately, in modern times, we have substituted local artisanal processing with factory and industrial processing, which actually diminishes the quality of the food, rather than making it more nutritious and digestible. Industrial processing depends upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-foods/dirty-secrets-of-the-food-processing-industry/
Can you show me the nearest cake tree? There's nothing about cake that is not processed.
use self rising flour, alternative sugars such as dates...
Self rising flour just has the baking powder already in it (plus salt), in addition to the fine-ground wheat (and maybe some "enriched" vitamin content). It's not "less processed"; it's "more processed". Date sugar has a whalloping lot of sucrose, just like table sugar (a.k.a. beet sugar, cane sugar).
does the sucrose make it processed? i think of processed differently. Basically all food we eat unless raw is considered process if you base it on your response. But when I think of processed I thing of "Industrial processing depending upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains."
Which oils are not processed? I've never seen an extra virgin olive tree with a tap on it that you turn to dispense oil. Or a canola plant that I can milk the oil out of. If I pick an avocado off a tree and cut it open, there's no oil inside to pour out into a handy container.
Sometimes I wonder if part of the arguments about "processed foods" stems from the fact that a lot of people really don't even have a clue as to where their foods even come from or how they're made/obtained.
I was told of a group of kids being asked about food sources and when asked where apples come from the reply was the grocery store which makes your point.
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The point that many are making here in the last several posts is that since every commercially available food is “processed” in some way, using the term processed as a barometer of whether or not a food is good or bad, is not helpful.
Foods that provide nutrition are still processed. Even foods that are “ultra” processed or whatever superlative people want to try to put on the term to clarify what they mean, can still have nutritional value and can still be part of an overall healthy and calorie appropriate diet.
I’m just not sure why trying to find categories of food to say you never eat is helpful to people. Why label the foods as good/bad, healthy/unhealthy, processed/whole, clean/junk, natural/unnatural... at all? What does labeling food, when there are literally billions of different foods in the world and exponentially more ways to prepare these foods to be consumed - accomplish?4 -
stevencloser wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Some processed foods are great. Some are pretty calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Can't make a blanket statement
I don't usually see people who claim to avoid processed foods to distinguish between the ones that are "great" and the one that are calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Besides, what's wrong with a delicious piece of cake on occasion esp if it's within the context of an overall balanced diet?
You can have cake and not have it be processed. i think it's about the ingredients. to me processed food contains chemicals (such as preservatives) that does not occur naturally in food. i personally avoid processed food such as margarine and stick with foods if they are boxed and canned that do not have preservatives. Sometimes this is hard such as coconut milk because it contains guar but I still eat it. Just keep in mind avoiding food that never goes bad.
Explanation of processed food based on Weston A. Price:
Unfortunately, in modern times, we have substituted local artisanal processing with factory and industrial processing, which actually diminishes the quality of the food, rather than making it more nutritious and digestible. Industrial processing depends upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-foods/dirty-secrets-of-the-food-processing-industry/
Can you show me the nearest cake tree? There's nothing about cake that is not processed.
Yeah. Cake is so processed that even its main ingredients are processed: Flour (usually enriched white flour at that), sugar, butter, vanilla extract, milk. And the baking powder: That stuff is in there just because it's chemikills!
That stuff will surely kill you! May I please have a slice?
whole fat butter is not processed
Yeah, it is. It's churned (in an industrial way) and usually salted. Processed. Butter doesn't come out of the cow in wax-paper-wrapped rectangular chunks. "Full fat butter" is just butter. "Low fat butter" is not butter at all: It's butter substitute. Butter is dairy fat.
Raw butter is unprocessed, unheated, unpasteurized and unhomogenised butter fat which comes from cream. This means that raw butter contains all of the necessary vitamins and minerals that nature intended it to contain.
It comes from cream by . . . magic? I would've thought it was processing.
Does self-rising flour also contain all the necessary vitamins and minerals that nature intended it to contain?
Look, I prefer butter to margarine or imitation butter or whatever, because humans have been eating it and thriving for millennia. But it's processed. "Processed" is not evil. It's just transformed in some way. Some processing removes nutrients, some adds nutrients, some is nutrient neutral. Some processing introduces undesirable qualities (hydrogenation of fats, for one). Other processing enhances desirable qualities (freezing, in some scenarios). When it comes to making food choices, whether it is "processed" is a pretty faulty way to distinguish between reasonable choices and risky ones.
Great post.3 -
stevencloser wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Some processed foods are great. Some are pretty calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Can't make a blanket statement
I don't usually see people who claim to avoid processed foods to distinguish between the ones that are "great" and the one that are calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Besides, what's wrong with a delicious piece of cake on occasion esp if it's within the context of an overall balanced diet?
You can have cake and not have it be processed. i think it's about the ingredients. to me processed food contains chemicals (such as preservatives) that does not occur naturally in food. i personally avoid processed food such as margarine and stick with foods if they are boxed and canned that do not have preservatives. Sometimes this is hard such as coconut milk because it contains guar but I still eat it. Just keep in mind avoiding food that never goes bad.
Explanation of processed food based on Weston A. Price:
Unfortunately, in modern times, we have substituted local artisanal processing with factory and industrial processing, which actually diminishes the quality of the food, rather than making it more nutritious and digestible. Industrial processing depends upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-foods/dirty-secrets-of-the-food-processing-industry/
Can you show me the nearest cake tree? There's nothing about cake that is not processed.
use self rising flour, alternative sugars such as dates...
Self rising flour just has the baking powder already in it (plus salt), in addition to the fine-ground wheat (and maybe some "enriched" vitamin content). It's not "less processed"; it's "more processed". Date sugar has a whalloping lot of sucrose, just like table sugar (a.k.a. beet sugar, cane sugar).
does the sucrose make it processed? i think of processed differently. Basically all food we eat unless raw is considered process if you base it on your response. But when I think of processed I thing of "Industrial processing depending upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains."
The sucrose is already in the dates when they're picked from the tree. Drying dates and grinding them up is what makes date sugar "processed". That being said, it takes a lot less processing to make date sugar than it does came sugar, beet sugar, or high fructose corn syrup.
That's the trouble with the "processed food" conversation. One side is talking about ultra-processed things like Cheetos or Velveeta and the other is talking about things like artisanal cheddar cheese. Once each side defines what they mean by "processed" or simply chooses more exact terminology, there's not much left to argue over.3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Some processed foods are great. Some are pretty calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Can't make a blanket statement
I don't usually see people who claim to avoid processed foods to distinguish between the ones that are "great" and the one that are calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Besides, what's wrong with a delicious piece of cake on occasion esp if it's within the context of an overall balanced diet?
You can have cake and not have it be processed. i think it's about the ingredients. to me processed food contains chemicals (such as preservatives) that does not occur naturally in food. i personally avoid processed food such as margarine and stick with foods if they are boxed and canned that do not have preservatives. Sometimes this is hard such as coconut milk because it contains guar but I still eat it. Just keep in mind avoiding food that never goes bad.
Explanation of processed food based on Weston A. Price:
Unfortunately, in modern times, we have substituted local artisanal processing with factory and industrial processing, which actually diminishes the quality of the food, rather than making it more nutritious and digestible. Industrial processing depends upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-foods/dirty-secrets-of-the-food-processing-industry/
Can you show me the nearest cake tree? There's nothing about cake that is not processed.
My friuit cake contains only self ground almonds and raisins which currently I'm eating daily.
Both of which are processed...
...raw almonds are not processed...
I’m sure someone will claim that taking the shells off the almonds makes them processed!
That's the problem with the term....it isn't really defined. I th I'll no one could easily claim almonds you buy in a store are processed simply because they have been heavily modified from their natural counterpart in order to be made edible. Natural almonds are quite poisonous....a handful would likely kill you.
Which brings us to the other term that gets thrown around a lot....natural.
"Natural" almonds are not likely to kill many people. Almonds are pasteurized because of potential salmonella contamination. You're probably thinking of cashews, which really do contain a (natural) toxin, but it doesn't take "heavy modification" to make cashews safe to eat either.1 -
brassicaceae wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Some processed foods are great. Some are pretty calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Can't make a blanket statement
I don't usually see people who claim to avoid processed foods to distinguish between the ones that are "great" and the one that are calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Besides, what's wrong with a delicious piece of cake on occasion esp if it's within the context of an overall balanced diet?
You can have cake and not have it be processed. i think it's about the ingredients. to me processed food contains chemicals (such as preservatives) that does not occur naturally in food. i personally avoid processed food such as margarine and stick with foods if they are boxed and canned that do not have preservatives. Sometimes this is hard such as coconut milk because it contains guar but I still eat it. Just keep in mind avoiding food that never goes bad.
Explanation of processed food based on Weston A. Price:
Unfortunately, in modern times, we have substituted local artisanal processing with factory and industrial processing, which actually diminishes the quality of the food, rather than making it more nutritious and digestible. Industrial processing depends upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-foods/dirty-secrets-of-the-food-processing-industry/
Can you show me the nearest cake tree? There's nothing about cake that is not processed.
use self rising flour, alternative sugars such as dates...
Self rising flour just has the baking powder already in it (plus salt), in addition to the fine-ground wheat (and maybe some "enriched" vitamin content). It's not "less processed"; it's "more processed". Date sugar has a whalloping lot of sucrose, just like table sugar (a.k.a. beet sugar, cane sugar).
does the sucrose make it processed? i think of processed differently. Basically all food we eat unless raw is considered process if you base it on your response. But when I think of processed I thing of "Industrial processing depending upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains."
The sucrose is already in the dates when they're picked from the tree. Drying dates and grinding them up is what makes date sugar "processed". That being said, it takes a lot less processing to make date sugar than it does came sugar, beet sugar, or high fructose corn syrup.
That's the trouble with the "processed food" conversation. One side is talking about ultra-processed things like Cheetos or Velveeta and the other is talking about things like artisanal cheddar cheese. Once each side defines what they mean by "processed" or simply chooses more exact terminology, there's not much left to argue over.
Cane sugar is making tea out of the sugar cane and then letting it dry up. Hardly that much more processing than drying something and grinding it up.0 -
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Wild almonds have to be leached to remove the toxins but sweet almonds have a genetic mutation leaving the fruit ready to eat from the tree. All almonds in America, including raw, are processed to eliminate the possibility of salmonella contamination.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Almond#Origin_and_history2 -
brassicaceae wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Some processed foods are great. Some are pretty calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Can't make a blanket statement
I don't usually see people who claim to avoid processed foods to distinguish between the ones that are "great" and the one that are calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Besides, what's wrong with a delicious piece of cake on occasion esp if it's within the context of an overall balanced diet?
You can have cake and not have it be processed. i think it's about the ingredients. to me processed food contains chemicals (such as preservatives) that does not occur naturally in food. i personally avoid processed food such as margarine and stick with foods if they are boxed and canned that do not have preservatives. Sometimes this is hard such as coconut milk because it contains guar but I still eat it. Just keep in mind avoiding food that never goes bad.
Explanation of processed food based on Weston A. Price:
Unfortunately, in modern times, we have substituted local artisanal processing with factory and industrial processing, which actually diminishes the quality of the food, rather than making it more nutritious and digestible. Industrial processing depends upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-foods/dirty-secrets-of-the-food-processing-industry/
Can you show me the nearest cake tree? There's nothing about cake that is not processed.
use self rising flour, alternative sugars such as dates...
Self rising flour just has the baking powder already in it (plus salt), in addition to the fine-ground wheat (and maybe some "enriched" vitamin content). It's not "less processed"; it's "more processed". Date sugar has a whalloping lot of sucrose, just like table sugar (a.k.a. beet sugar, cane sugar).
does the sucrose make it processed? i think of processed differently. Basically all food we eat unless raw is considered process if you base it on your response. But when I think of processed I thing of "Industrial processing depending upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains."
The sucrose is already in the dates when they're picked from the tree. Drying dates and grinding them up is what makes date sugar "processed". That being said, it takes a lot less processing to make date sugar than it does came sugar, beet sugar, or high fructose corn syrup.
That's the trouble with the "processed food" conversation. One side is talking about ultra-processed things like Cheetos or Velveeta and the other is talking about things like artisanal cheddar cheese. Once each side defines what they mean by "processed" or simply chooses more exact terminology, there's not much left to argue over.
I still think the definition of processing, while may be defined by some systems, is used commonly in a vague and unmeaningful way specific to every person. I remember having the discussion how dried pasta was processed but freshly made pasta wasn't. The difference is literally leaving pasta to dry. By another person's definition, pasta itself would be processed no matter how it's made because flour is processed.
The number of steps to process something is also not a good indication of something being healthier. Aged cheese is handled and processed and pressed. Fresh cheese doesn't go through the same number of processing steps. It doesn't mean fresh cheese is healthier.
I still maintain that the general use of the word processed means "foods I consider inferior because I don't like the way they were handled" - a personal opinion and preference. There is nothing wrong with feeling like certain foods make a better choice for any particular person. I dislike many frozen meatballs and pre-prepared chicken because I don't like the way they were handled. I don't like that through adding binders and fillers they can get away with using less meat, which dilutes the protein content. The difference is that I don't generalize that judgment to all things that have binders or everything that is frozen.0 -
A surprise to me was finding out how much processing is required of the olive fruit to make it palatable.
https://chiotsrun.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Home-Curing-Olives.pdf3 -
brassicaceae wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Some processed foods are great. Some are pretty calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Can't make a blanket statement
I don't usually see people who claim to avoid processed foods to distinguish between the ones that are "great" and the one that are calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Besides, what's wrong with a delicious piece of cake on occasion esp if it's within the context of an overall balanced diet?
You can have cake and not have it be processed. i think it's about the ingredients. to me processed food contains chemicals (such as preservatives) that does not occur naturally in food. i personally avoid processed food such as margarine and stick with foods if they are boxed and canned that do not have preservatives. Sometimes this is hard such as coconut milk because it contains guar but I still eat it. Just keep in mind avoiding food that never goes bad.
Explanation of processed food based on Weston A. Price:
Unfortunately, in modern times, we have substituted local artisanal processing with factory and industrial processing, which actually diminishes the quality of the food, rather than making it more nutritious and digestible. Industrial processing depends upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-foods/dirty-secrets-of-the-food-processing-industry/
Can you show me the nearest cake tree? There's nothing about cake that is not processed.
use self rising flour, alternative sugars such as dates...
Self rising flour just has the baking powder already in it (plus salt), in addition to the fine-ground wheat (and maybe some "enriched" vitamin content). It's not "less processed"; it's "more processed". Date sugar has a whalloping lot of sucrose, just like table sugar (a.k.a. beet sugar, cane sugar).
does the sucrose make it processed? i think of processed differently. Basically all food we eat unless raw is considered process if you base it on your response. But when I think of processed I thing of "Industrial processing depending upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains."
The sucrose is already in the dates when they're picked from the tree. Drying dates and grinding them up is what makes date sugar "processed". That being said, it takes a lot less processing to make date sugar than it does came sugar, beet sugar, or high fructose corn syrup.
That's the trouble with the "processed food" conversation. One side is talking about ultra-processed things like Cheetos or Velveeta and the other is talking about things like artisanal cheddar cheese. Once each side defines what they mean by "processed" or simply chooses more exact terminology, there's not much left to argue over.
IMO, the trouble with the "processed food" conversation - typically - is not that we disagree over how "processed" counts as "processed". The trouble is in the food, fitness and health culture having twisted the definition of "processed", when referring to foods, to be a synonym for "not as good for you" and that some people make the leap from that to "just completely bad and to be avoided".
In that way of thinking, protein powder may not count as a processed food for some people (yes, I've seen it) because it's seen as good for people . . . even though most protein powder is among the most processed of foods, by any non-food-related definition of "processed".
Processed ought to just be able to mean what the dictionary says, i.e., having undergone "a series of actions or operations conducing to an end; especially : a continuous operation or treatment especially in manufacture". (That's from Merriam Webster, for the record.)
I fully support the idea that some foods have more value in one's way of eating than others (though I believe that which foods have more value is context-dependent, in many cases), and that some so-called foods seem really not very good for us at all, for regular consumption (things with non-naturally-occurring trans fats are one possible example).
I certainly believe that many (not all) common processed foods that have had a lot of things removed are probably slightly less nutritious than the equivalent food with all its original components (whole grains vs. refined grains, say; or a whole potato vs. a peeled one - but the differences aren't necessarily huge). I personally think that most frozen ready meals (to be specific) have materially less nutrition than I'd want for that number of calories, but think it's OK for others with different life needs and ways of eating to disagree. Furthermore, I'm entirely willing to entertain level-headed, science-based discussion of the possibility that some foods, food additives, etc., are actually bad for us, in normally-eaten quantities.
There's a multi-dimensional conceptual space for describing the usefulness or "goodness" of foods - in terms of tastiness, nutrition, caloric content, social appropriateness, cost, possible allergic implications, and more - and "processed" (in a strict definition) really has little or nothing to do with food "goodness". It's a dumbed-down, fuzzy-thinking shorthand, frankly.
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brassicaceae wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Some processed foods are great. Some are pretty calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Can't make a blanket statement
I don't usually see people who claim to avoid processed foods to distinguish between the ones that are "great" and the one that are calorie heavy and nutrient poor.
Besides, what's wrong with a delicious piece of cake on occasion esp if it's within the context of an overall balanced diet?
You can have cake and not have it be processed. i think it's about the ingredients. to me processed food contains chemicals (such as preservatives) that does not occur naturally in food. i personally avoid processed food such as margarine and stick with foods if they are boxed and canned that do not have preservatives. Sometimes this is hard such as coconut milk because it contains guar but I still eat it. Just keep in mind avoiding food that never goes bad.
Explanation of processed food based on Weston A. Price:
Unfortunately, in modern times, we have substituted local artisanal processing with factory and industrial processing, which actually diminishes the quality of the food, rather than making it more nutritious and digestible. Industrial processing depends upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-foods/dirty-secrets-of-the-food-processing-industry/
Can you show me the nearest cake tree? There's nothing about cake that is not processed.
use self rising flour, alternative sugars such as dates...
Self rising flour just has the baking powder already in it (plus salt), in addition to the fine-ground wheat (and maybe some "enriched" vitamin content). It's not "less processed"; it's "more processed". Date sugar has a whalloping lot of sucrose, just like table sugar (a.k.a. beet sugar, cane sugar).
does the sucrose make it processed? i think of processed differently. Basically all food we eat unless raw is considered process if you base it on your response. But when I think of processed I thing of "Industrial processing depending upon sugar, white flour, processed and hydrogenated oils, synthetic food additives and vitamins, heat treatment and the extrusion of grains."
The sucrose is already in the dates when they're picked from the tree. Drying dates and grinding them up is what makes date sugar "processed". That being said, it takes a lot less processing to make date sugar than it does came sugar, beet sugar, or high fructose corn syrup.
That's the trouble with the "processed food" conversation. One side is talking about ultra-processed things like Cheetos or Velveeta and the other is talking about things like artisanal cheddar cheese. Once each side defines what they mean by "processed" or simply chooses more exact terminology, there's not much left to argue over.
IMO, the trouble with the "processed food" conversation - typically - is not that we disagree over how "processed" counts as "processed". The trouble is in the food, fitness and health culture having twisted the definition of "processed", when referring to foods, to be a synonym for "not as good for you" and that some people make the leap from that to "just completely bad and to be avoided".
In that way of thinking, protein powder may not count as a processed food for some people (yes, I've seen it) because it's seen as good for people . . . even though most protein powder is among the most processed of foods, by any non-food-related definition of "processed".
Processed ought to just be able to mean what the dictionary says, i.e., having undergone "a series of actions or operations conducing to an end; especially : a continuous operation or treatment especially in manufacture". (That's from Merriam Webster, for the record.)
This. (Whole post, really, but I didn't want this one to be too long.)
I also do think that part of this depends on where you start. The dieting industry uses "processed" as a bad word and tells people they overate because of "processed foods." Some people, apparently (I learned this from MFP, as it's not true for my offline life or social circle), ate mostly highly processed, high cal foods that were not only packaged, but had lots of added fat, added salt, added sugar, and were not high in vegetables, maybe not in protein, so on. They hear processed is bad, see they are eating lots of processed stuff, make an effort to cook a bit more with whole foods and add in some vegetables (and probably, like many of us, also use some processed foods that are less processed than their former diet's staples) and perceive themselves as "eating clean" or "cutting out processed foods" despite the fact that in many cases they eat a lot more highly processed foods still than those of us who say there's nothing inherently wrong with processing.
In other cases, people were already eating diets made up mostly of whole foods, but overeating for one reason or another, and didn't find "processed foods" particularly something to focus on, or something that caused them to have a less nutrient dense diet or avoid vegetables or whatever. When you tell these people that processed foods are bad, they think of the processed foods they eat (probably a variety, like a spice mix or tofu or dried pasta or manchego or whatever -- or the occasional convenience thing, like a quick serve restaurant salad -- and ask why those foods are such a problem that they should be avoided. Or, perhaps, they think of the occasional chocolate or Christmas cookies or Talenti they consume in moderation and similarly ask why it's terrible to have those things in a balanced nutrient-dense diet within their calories.
Then as the discussion goes on, they see that the people on a high horse about ALL processed foods being bad are eating protein powder and Arbys (seriously, this has occurred) and commercial cold cereals and packaged bread and string cheese and coconut oil and a packaged rice and beans mix and supermarket salad dressings and so on and say "hey, wait a minute, you are eating processed foods as much as me or more." The person becomes all upset and claims "you know that's not what I mean," but fact is I don't, at this point I have no clue what they mean, only that they can't be bothered to use the word "processed" correctly, or perhaps are confused about the word all, and that they are apparently assuming everyone not "eating clean" eats like they used to, mostly not whole foods at all or tons of sweets not in moderation or whatever their particular diet they changed from was, which is a silly and false thing for them to assume.
I of course agree that some diets are better than others (although good diets are quite varied), but I do not think that loudly insisting that processed foods are bad has a thing to do with eating a good diet, and while there are specific highly processed (and not very processed) foods I avoid for various reasons generalizing the issue with them as "processing" always strikes me as a sign that someone doesn't know much about nutrition or food history or cooking or the like.2 -
Nope. It's about what is actually in the food and the quantity eaten, not if something has been processed. Jolly Ranchers are highly processed, ask anyone who has Type 1 diabetes why they always carry a few with them.0
https://youtu.be/8GEZHTxV4_g
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