Of refeeds and diet breaks
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bmeadows380 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Quick update on me - my thyroid is messed up. My endo was happy with my last numbers, I was not and I feel like crap and told her so.
We went over options including running more bloodwork, but she decided to just run with treating my symptoms and we decided the best course right now would be to add Cytomel to my current Synthroid dose rather than trying to play around with fine tuning the Synthroid dose since it's sort of at a weird point as it is already.
I am hoping to see some improvement soon because my energy levels have tanked. I am satisfying myself for now with just maintaining until all of this is straightened out.
Is Cytomel the T3 synthetic? It sounds familiar.
I struggle with energy levels myself and have for a long time, even when my doctor had my levels suppressed super low up until this spring. She's allowed my numbers to be brought up to about 0.5, but I still have no energy. I struggle with pretty bad cases of depression a lot, though, and my quality of sleep isn't the greatest (I've found that I sleep best between 3 am and 7 am, but unfortunately, I have to be in to work by 7 am, so I have to be up and moving no later than 5:45 am) and I have a very sedentary job, so I've never been able to figure out if my low energy levels were due to the thyroid and me not having one, or if the low energy was due to the depression (or even if the thyroid was a factor in my depression problems).
I've wondered if the T3 would help me, but I'd have a hard time getting my endo to consider something like that.
Yup, that's what Cytomel is.
Sorry you're having such a rough go of it. It can be so tricky trying to get issues like these sorted out.
I know the last time my thyroid went off on me, it took a year and a half to get everything straightened out.2 -
Not sure if somebody has already shared this one, but Alberto Nunez (of Eric Helms' Team 3DMJ) recently wrote an article about diet breaks. It's a bit more specific and purpose-driven than the rest of the general conversation here, but has some relevant observations and is worth a read: http://3dmusclejourney.com/diet-break-101/
Even though it was purpose driven, the immediate illustrative example given by those charts of the effects of the diet breaks is well worth the read.
Thanks for posting this!0 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Quick update on me - my thyroid is messed up. My endo was happy with my last numbers, I was not and I feel like crap and told her so.
We went over options including running more bloodwork, but she decided to just run with treating my symptoms and we decided the best course right now would be to add Cytomel to my current Synthroid dose rather than trying to play around with fine tuning the Synthroid dose since it's sort of at a weird point as it is already.
I am hoping to see some improvement soon because my energy levels have tanked. I am satisfying myself for now with just maintaining until all of this is straightened out.
Is Cytomel the T3 synthetic? It sounds familiar.
I struggle with energy levels myself and have for a long time, even when my doctor had my levels suppressed super low up until this spring. She's allowed my numbers to be brought up to about 0.5, but I still have no energy. I struggle with pretty bad cases of depression a lot, though, and my quality of sleep isn't the greatest (I've found that I sleep best between 3 am and 7 am, but unfortunately, I have to be in to work by 7 am, so I have to be up and moving no later than 5:45 am) and I have a very sedentary job, so I've never been able to figure out if my low energy levels were due to the thyroid and me not having one, or if the low energy was due to the depression (or even if the thyroid was a factor in my depression problems).
I've wondered if the T3 would help me, but I'd have a hard time getting my endo to consider something like that.
Yikes - during the winter when we usually slow down anyway.
I'd imagine this just compounds SADS or anything close to it.
Sorry to hear about both of you dealing with this.2 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Quick update on me - my thyroid is messed up. My endo was happy with my last numbers, I was not and I feel like crap and told her so.
We went over options including running more bloodwork, but she decided to just run with treating my symptoms and we decided the best course right now would be to add Cytomel to my current Synthroid dose rather than trying to play around with fine tuning the Synthroid dose since it's sort of at a weird point as it is already.
I am hoping to see some improvement soon because my energy levels have tanked. I am satisfying myself for now with just maintaining until all of this is straightened out.
Is Cytomel the T3 synthetic? It sounds familiar.
I struggle with energy levels myself and have for a long time, even when my doctor had my levels suppressed super low up until this spring. She's allowed my numbers to be brought up to about 0.5, but I still have no energy. I struggle with pretty bad cases of depression a lot, though, and my quality of sleep isn't the greatest (I've found that I sleep best between 3 am and 7 am, but unfortunately, I have to be in to work by 7 am, so I have to be up and moving no later than 5:45 am) and I have a very sedentary job, so I've never been able to figure out if my low energy levels were due to the thyroid and me not having one, or if the low energy was due to the depression (or even if the thyroid was a factor in my depression problems).
I've wondered if the T3 would help me, but I'd have a hard time getting my endo to consider something like that.
Yikes - during the winter when we usually slow down anyway.
I'd imagine this just compounds SADS or anything close to it.
Sorry to hear about both of you dealing with this.
Up until this winter, my doc kept my TSH at 0.02 or slightly under that as treatment for thyroid cancer. Since my yearly cancer tests have come back very, very good (meaning I'm in the lowest category you can get in for risk of recurrence), she started raising me back up in November to a higher TSH. I'm currently sitting at 0.5.
What's sad is that I never experienced any of the hyperthyroid symptoms during those 3 years I was held so low, despite being well into the hyper thyroid range- my hand stayed steady, I never had problems feeling jittery, my heart never raced, I never had anxiety issues, I never had cycle problems. In fact, I still felt sluggish like I always had when I was still hypothyroid and still have a lot of the other hypo thyroid symptoms - depression, fatigue, thin hair, constipation..... The only hyper symptom I deal with is heat sensitivity - I've never dealt well with high heat and would much rather have it cold than too hot, and increased humidity just absolutely saps me!
I wanted to give the natural thyroid a try, but my doctor won't authorize it, saying its not recommended for patients who have had their thyroids removed. I've also moved out of the area (I'm 4 hours away from my doctor's office) and would like to find a new endo, but those are few and far between and I haven't been able to find a good one any closer than the one I'm seeing now. I think, though, when i see her next, I really do want to discuss the Cytomel thing and see if I can get her to at least let me try it for a bit - in fact, when looking back through my medical test results ordered by my endo, I now realize that all she's ever looked at is TSH and thyruglobulin; I need to see if I can get her to do a more extensive panel to discuss at our next appointment......
OH, I have a question posted from a different thread I'm on:
When you have a regular strength training regimen going on, are still eating at the same deficit and not eating exercise calories back, how does gaining muscle affect your long term weight in that scenario? The person who posted the question was getting discouraged because she was always seeing a 1 to 2 lb gain the day after working out, which I quickly assured her was normal water weight gain post workout, but it got me to wondering how the gain of muscle plays out in trying to lose weight and gain or maintain muscle mass. I've heard for a long time that muscle weighs more than fat, so as you gain muscle, your weight loss may stall or you may gain weight while at the same time your waist measurements and such may still be going down because you are losing fat at the same time, but I wasn't sure if that was just hearsay or fact.
I did recommend this thread to her, so hopefully she'll pop over to find an answer that can reassure her!1 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Quick update on me - my thyroid is messed up. My endo was happy with my last numbers, I was not and I feel like crap and told her so.
We went over options including running more bloodwork, but she decided to just run with treating my symptoms and we decided the best course right now would be to add Cytomel to my current Synthroid dose rather than trying to play around with fine tuning the Synthroid dose since it's sort of at a weird point as it is already.
I am hoping to see some improvement soon because my energy levels have tanked. I am satisfying myself for now with just maintaining until all of this is straightened out.
Is Cytomel the T3 synthetic? It sounds familiar.
I struggle with energy levels myself and have for a long time, even when my doctor had my levels suppressed super low up until this spring. She's allowed my numbers to be brought up to about 0.5, but I still have no energy. I struggle with pretty bad cases of depression a lot, though, and my quality of sleep isn't the greatest (I've found that I sleep best between 3 am and 7 am, but unfortunately, I have to be in to work by 7 am, so I have to be up and moving no later than 5:45 am) and I have a very sedentary job, so I've never been able to figure out if my low energy levels were due to the thyroid and me not having one, or if the low energy was due to the depression (or even if the thyroid was a factor in my depression problems).
I've wondered if the T3 would help me, but I'd have a hard time getting my endo to consider something like that.
Yikes - during the winter when we usually slow down anyway.
I'd imagine this just compounds SADS or anything close to it.
Sorry to hear about both of you dealing with this.
Up until this winter, my doc kept my TSH at 0.02 or slightly under that as treatment for thyroid cancer. Since my yearly cancer tests have come back very, very good (meaning I'm in the lowest category you can get in for risk of recurrence), she started raising me back up in November to a higher TSH. I'm currently sitting at 0.5.
What's sad is that I never experienced any of the hyperthyroid symptoms during those 3 years I was held so low, despite being well into the hyper thyroid range- my hand stayed steady, I never had problems feeling jittery, my heart never raced, I never had anxiety issues, I never had cycle problems. In fact, I still felt sluggish like I always had when I was still hypothyroid and still have a lot of the other hypo thyroid symptoms - depression, fatigue, thin hair, constipation..... The only hyper symptom I deal with is heat sensitivity - I've never dealt well with high heat and would much rather have it cold than too hot, and increased humidity just absolutely saps me!
I wanted to give the natural thyroid a try, but my doctor won't authorize it, saying its not recommended for patients who have had their thyroids removed. I've also moved out of the area (I'm 4 hours away from my doctor's office) and would like to find a new endo, but those are few and far between and I haven't been able to find a good one any closer than the one I'm seeing now. I think, though, when i see her next, I really do want to discuss the Cytomel thing and see if I can get her to at least let me try it for a bit - in fact, when looking back through my medical test results ordered by my endo, I now realize that all she's ever looked at is TSH and thyruglobulin; I need to see if I can get her to do a more extensive panel to discuss at our next appointment......
OH, I have a question posted from a different thread I'm on:
When you have a regular strength training regimen going on, are still eating at the same deficit and not eating exercise calories back, how does gaining muscle affect your long term weight in that scenario? The person who posted the question was getting discouraged because she was always seeing a 1 to 2 lb gain the day after working out, which I quickly assured her was normal water weight gain post workout, but it got me to wondering how the gain of muscle plays out in trying to lose weight and gain or maintain muscle mass. I've heard for a long time that muscle weighs more than fat, so as you gain muscle, your weight loss may stall or you may gain weight while at the same time your waist measurements and such may still be going down because you are losing fat at the same time, but I wasn't sure if that was just hearsay or fact.
I did recommend this thread to her, so hopefully she'll pop over to find an answer that can reassure her!
This is not surprising and I have a similar plan. Post thyroid cancer, total thyroidectomy. Our normal is established during our developmental years ~ 13-25. I was likely hyperthyroid through my life, so this is normal to me. Currently on 175/200 mcg Synthroid and at ~0.2 TSH with all numbers in range. Slipping above 1.0 and I feel like hell. I'm in a constant battle fighting with physicians to not lower my dosage and have finally found one willing to work with me.
You need to insist on a full thyroid panel. Just looking at TSH is akin to just looking a temp and not reviewing blood pressure, heart rate, etc. It is absurd. Any diagnosis requires a full and comprehensive review including your behavior and energy levels - understand that this is completely subjective, but you can provide this in an objective manner by logging activity - something MFP can easily provide.
Natural thyroid gets a bad rap, but this mindset is really outdated...and this is coming from someone who used to manage the pharmacovigilance profile of Synthroid. The refinement process of natural hormone has advanced to a very similar state to synthetic. It's not superior or inferior to synthetic, but if it works for you go for it.3 -
@CSARdiver, that's where I'm at now with my endo. If I go above 1, I feel like hell, and I told her that was my limit. My last test was 1.5, the one before that was .5 and I wanted to stay there but then again was worried because I have osteopenia, so it's a balance with not being over-corrected either, so I let her do a small adjustment.
Now I'm regretting it.2 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »OH, I have a question posted from a different thread I'm on:
When you have a regular strength training regimen going on, are still eating at the same deficit and not eating exercise calories back, how does gaining muscle affect your long term weight in that scenario? The person who posted the question was getting discouraged because she was always seeing a 1 to 2 lb gain the day after working out, which I quickly assured her was normal water weight gain post workout, but it got me to wondering how the gain of muscle plays out in trying to lose weight and gain or maintain muscle mass. I've heard for a long time that muscle weighs more than fat, so as you gain muscle, your weight loss may stall or you may gain weight while at the same time your waist measurements and such may still be going down because you are losing fat at the same time, but I wasn't sure if that was just hearsay or fact.
I did recommend this thread to her, so hopefully she'll pop over to find an answer that can reassure her!
Not sure how they think they are gaining much in the way of muscle being in a deficit and even more not eating back exercise calories.
Moot point - they really aren't gaining muscle.
Recomp is when your food supplies your recovery/repair to lifting to a large degree, and fat is used as extra energy source just as when dieting.
But it's slow. And maintenance, not deficit.3 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Quick update on me - my thyroid is messed up. My endo was happy with my last numbers, I was not and I feel like crap and told her so.
We went over options including running more bloodwork, but she decided to just run with treating my symptoms and we decided the best course right now would be to add Cytomel to my current Synthroid dose rather than trying to play around with fine tuning the Synthroid dose since it's sort of at a weird point as it is already.
I am hoping to see some improvement soon because my energy levels have tanked. I am satisfying myself for now with just maintaining until all of this is straightened out.
Is Cytomel the T3 synthetic? It sounds familiar.
I struggle with energy levels myself and have for a long time, even when my doctor had my levels suppressed super low up until this spring. She's allowed my numbers to be brought up to about 0.5, but I still have no energy. I struggle with pretty bad cases of depression a lot, though, and my quality of sleep isn't the greatest (I've found that I sleep best between 3 am and 7 am, but unfortunately, I have to be in to work by 7 am, so I have to be up and moving no later than 5:45 am) and I have a very sedentary job, so I've never been able to figure out if my low energy levels were due to the thyroid and me not having one, or if the low energy was due to the depression (or even if the thyroid was a factor in my depression problems).
I've wondered if the T3 would help me, but I'd have a hard time getting my endo to consider something like that.
Yikes - during the winter when we usually slow down anyway.
I'd imagine this just compounds SADS or anything close to it.
Sorry to hear about both of you dealing with this.
Up until this winter, my doc kept my TSH at 0.02 or slightly under that as treatment for thyroid cancer. Since my yearly cancer tests have come back very, very good (meaning I'm in the lowest category you can get in for risk of recurrence), she started raising me back up in November to a higher TSH. I'm currently sitting at 0.5.
What's sad is that I never experienced any of the hyperthyroid symptoms during those 3 years I was held so low, despite being well into the hyper thyroid range- my hand stayed steady, I never had problems feeling jittery, my heart never raced, I never had anxiety issues, I never had cycle problems. In fact, I still felt sluggish like I always had when I was still hypothyroid and still have a lot of the other hypo thyroid symptoms - depression, fatigue, thin hair, constipation..... The only hyper symptom I deal with is heat sensitivity - I've never dealt well with high heat and would much rather have it cold than too hot, and increased humidity just absolutely saps me!
I wanted to give the natural thyroid a try, but my doctor won't authorize it, saying its not recommended for patients who have had their thyroids removed. I've also moved out of the area (I'm 4 hours away from my doctor's office) and would like to find a new endo, but those are few and far between and I haven't been able to find a good one any closer than the one I'm seeing now. I think, though, when i see her next, I really do want to discuss the Cytomel thing and see if I can get her to at least let me try it for a bit - in fact, when looking back through my medical test results ordered by my endo, I now realize that all she's ever looked at is TSH and thyruglobulin; I need to see if I can get her to do a more extensive panel to discuss at our next appointment......
The thyroid cancer guidelines are now what my new (awesome) endo is using to figure out where I can safely sit for a TSH. He said he liked to keep those patients around .1, so that's where he was going to keep me, but didn't have a problem if I went below that, as long as my TSH was still detectable.
I've been much happier at this increased dose, now two weeks out. After the nine-day run up period for it to start to get more equal, I lost *exactly* what my calorie deficit said I should have lost. I was shocked and amazed. And, as I said to my therapist yesterday, I feel like I can finally actually trust calories now that my body isn't fighting me and screwing things up.
The endo agrees with what I felt, and what the dietitian I see thought -- that this was likely all/substantially water gains, based on the fact that I track everything and *know* I'm in a deficit. He said to expect it to start to dissipate within a few weeks of the dose getting stabilized -- and the dose should be completely stabilized within six weeks or so. I'd be thrilled if this comes off in a few months.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »@CSARdiver, that's where I'm at now with my endo. If I go above 1, I feel like hell, and I told her that was my limit. My last test was 1.5, the one before that was .5 and I wanted to stay there but then again was worried because I have osteopenia, so it's a balance with not being over-corrected either, so I let her do a small adjustment.
Now I'm regretting it.
My old endo kept insisting that it couldn't possibly be safe for my TSH to be that low, because I'd end up with cardiac problems "if not today, then five years down the road from now."
He never gave me a good answer when I said that well, considering it had been so low for far more than five years, and I was pretty positive my osteopenia was caused by my having an eating disorder...2 -
collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »@CSARdiver, that's where I'm at now with my endo. If I go above 1, I feel like hell, and I told her that was my limit. My last test was 1.5, the one before that was .5 and I wanted to stay there but then again was worried because I have osteopenia, so it's a balance with not being over-corrected either, so I let her do a small adjustment.
Now I'm regretting it.
My old endo kept insisting that it couldn't possibly be safe for my TSH to be that low, because I'd end up with cardiac problems "if not today, then five years down the road from now."
He never gave me a good answer when I said that well, considering it had been so low for far more than five years, and I was pretty positive my osteopenia was caused by my having an eating disorder...
Ugh - the link to TSH and cardiac arrhythmia was correlative from a few patient diaries and in the original clinical trial. This isn't caused by high or low dosage, but dramatic changes to hormone levels. The risk is also mitigated by adhering to 30 min cardio sessions 5x/week. Physicians should minimize the change in rate, not keep patients at dangerous levels. Personally I would rather spend a few hours week doing cardio that risk pancreatic cancer.
Many old school physicians adhere to the old range of 0.5-5.0 and consider anything below 0.5 hyperthyroid where 0.2 and asymptomatic is much more accurate. How this impacts the individual is key.1 -
collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »@CSARdiver, that's where I'm at now with my endo. If I go above 1, I feel like hell, and I told her that was my limit. My last test was 1.5, the one before that was .5 and I wanted to stay there but then again was worried because I have osteopenia, so it's a balance with not being over-corrected either, so I let her do a small adjustment.
Now I'm regretting it.
My old endo kept insisting that it couldn't possibly be safe for my TSH to be that low, because I'd end up with cardiac problems "if not today, then five years down the road from now."
He never gave me a good answer when I said that well, considering it had been so low for far more than five years, and I was pretty positive my osteopenia was caused by my having an eating disorder...
Ugh - the link to TSH and cardiac arrhythmia was correlative from a few patient diaries and in the original clinical trial. This isn't caused by high or low dosage, but dramatic changes to hormone levels. The risk is also mitigated by adhering to 30 min cardio sessions 5x/week. Physicians should minimize the change in rate, not keep patients at dangerous levels. Personally I would rather spend a few hours week doing cardio that risk pancreatic cancer.
Many old school physicians adhere to the old range of 0.5-5.0 and consider anything below 0.5 hyperthyroid where 0.2 and asymptomatic is much more accurate. How this impacts the individual is key.
The almost funny thing is that the old endo wasn't even old -- I'm older than he was, and he's only seven years out of fellowship! My perception was that he highly resented someone who was a) a patient, and b) not an MD *daring* to tell him that he wasn't pursuing the best course of treatment.
I knew I was done with him when I asked my dietitian to call him -- he insisted that the RMR testing couldn't possibly be accurate, since I'd be losing weight if it were, and that my RMR was probably "really, only 900 or 1000 calories, and maybe you get a few hundred extra for your exercise" (I remember the quote largely because I sat there thinking "Are you seriously telling a patient with an eating disorder that she just needs to restrict more?"), and he insisted that he couldn't give me a better number, because really no one can say for sure what anyone's metabolic rate would be -- to explain why the RMR testing worked, and he refused to take her phone call. If you can't collaborate with other members of my team, I don't need you on my team.5 -
collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »@CSARdiver, that's where I'm at now with my endo. If I go above 1, I feel like hell, and I told her that was my limit. My last test was 1.5, the one before that was .5 and I wanted to stay there but then again was worried because I have osteopenia, so it's a balance with not being over-corrected either, so I let her do a small adjustment.
Now I'm regretting it.
My old endo kept insisting that it couldn't possibly be safe for my TSH to be that low, because I'd end up with cardiac problems "if not today, then five years down the road from now."
He never gave me a good answer when I said that well, considering it had been so low for far more than five years, and I was pretty positive my osteopenia was caused by my having an eating disorder...
Ugh - the link to TSH and cardiac arrhythmia was correlative from a few patient diaries and in the original clinical trial. This isn't caused by high or low dosage, but dramatic changes to hormone levels. The risk is also mitigated by adhering to 30 min cardio sessions 5x/week. Physicians should minimize the change in rate, not keep patients at dangerous levels. Personally I would rather spend a few hours week doing cardio that risk pancreatic cancer.
Many old school physicians adhere to the old range of 0.5-5.0 and consider anything below 0.5 hyperthyroid where 0.2 and asymptomatic is much more accurate. How this impacts the individual is key.
Now see, I was as low as .2 and asymptomatic. I need to have a talk with her. But then again, osteopenia.
Where's the line?
I know for me, it's below 1, but I can't say for sure where it is.1 -
collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »@CSARdiver, that's where I'm at now with my endo. If I go above 1, I feel like hell, and I told her that was my limit. My last test was 1.5, the one before that was .5 and I wanted to stay there but then again was worried because I have osteopenia, so it's a balance with not being over-corrected either, so I let her do a small adjustment.
Now I'm regretting it.
My old endo kept insisting that it couldn't possibly be safe for my TSH to be that low, because I'd end up with cardiac problems "if not today, then five years down the road from now."
He never gave me a good answer when I said that well, considering it had been so low for far more than five years, and I was pretty positive my osteopenia was caused by my having an eating disorder...
Ugh - the link to TSH and cardiac arrhythmia was correlative from a few patient diaries and in the original clinical trial. This isn't caused by high or low dosage, but dramatic changes to hormone levels. The risk is also mitigated by adhering to 30 min cardio sessions 5x/week. Physicians should minimize the change in rate, not keep patients at dangerous levels. Personally I would rather spend a few hours week doing cardio that risk pancreatic cancer.
Many old school physicians adhere to the old range of 0.5-5.0 and consider anything below 0.5 hyperthyroid where 0.2 and asymptomatic is much more accurate. How this impacts the individual is key.
Its really frustrating how prevalent those old standards still are - even amongst younger doctors. I don't know why it takes so long for standards for endocrinology to change. I know that back when I was a teen, my family doctor considered the range of "good" to be up to 6.0 and kept insisting that my thyroid function was fine, even though I was showing symptoms of being hypothyroid even then. It was only later after college that I found out that new research had drastically changed that "good" range and that I had likely been hypothyroid all along.
It's even more frustrating because I have a heck of a time getting my endocrynologists to pay attention to my symptoms - as long as the TSH comes back where they think it ought to be, then everything is fine as far as they are concerned. And it doesn't help that I have PCOS as well - I swear, if I didn't tweeze regularly, I could probably be a decent contender for a role as a bearded lady in the circus!
I finally talked my sister into setting up an appointment with a new PCP, and I'm really pushing her to request a full screening from that doctor, including a thyroid ultrasound. Our family has a history of thyroid issues and goiters, with mine turning out to be cancerous. My mother's brother recently passed away from thyroid cancer that was detected too late and had spread to his brain.
What's bad is that we stumbled across my goiters when I was given a neck ultrasound for a completely unrelated issue-the ultrasound technician asked me "do you know that you have goiters?" and I was shocked. And even when I had them forward the results to my endocrynologist, even they said if they hadn't seen it on the ultrasound they wouldn't have believed it because you could not feel them - the surgeon even asked me "are you sure you have goiters" because she couldn't feel them either.
I hope this new doctor for my sister will listen and that my sister will insist, considering our family history. When my sister asked her old doctor to do bloodwork, all the woman checked was TSH and all my sister heard was "your levels are normal". She didn't even give her the number that it came back at, and despite my nagging, I could never get my sister to call down there and insist they give her a copy of her report *sigh* My family are the type that just blindly does whatever the doctor tells them to do without researching anything at all.3 -
From Aug to Jan 1, I lost 24#. Since Jan 1, I've lost only 8.4. I've been struggling a bit, so I've changed up a few things. I did a diet break at the end of March. I've changed up my macros to help me with my satiation. I've changed up the number of calories to adding more on the weekend - that really didn't work. lol. Most recently I'm doing 5:2 IF. That seems to be helping the most because I'd be happy to lose 3/4# per week and I calculated to lose 1# per week and hoping that any errors in logging would make up the difference. Yes I weigh my food. Not religiously, but regularly. Probably 50% weighing, 25% measuring, 25% eye balling or guessing. I've quit drinking wine during the week. The first 7 months - no exercise. Since April I've been doing yoga 2-3 times a week. I wish I had done it sooner. Love it. I keep thinking that maybe water in my muscle due to the new exercise is a slight culprit. My sleep is not the best due to some high stress. I don't know. Maybe all of this is normal. I just thought that I would be a little further along after 10 months.
The good parts. In January, I thought my skin felt and looked saggy especially around my belly. Now I can honestly say that it doesn't have that same squishy saggy appearance. Truthfully I still have ALOT of belly fat to lose, but the skin seems to have tightened up. My side boobs are diminishing and my back fat is trimming down. Even my husband commented on it when he hugged me last night.
Is this all normal or is this an underachievement?2 -
Hey there! Need a little guidance here. I appreciate the advice I have gotten here in the past.
63 year old male. 5'10". Workout 3 to 5 times a week. Started at 250 lbs. - have been as low as 202 - goal is 175-185 (if I can get there).
Had bodyfat measured with calipers by a trainer last month - 20.7%. Did a metabolic V02 test a couple of weeks ago - predicted RMR was 1740 - V02 was 286 - actual RMR was 1990.
I have been experimenting with varying calorie levels (2250 down to 1700) since my last diet break in December. Weight has been in the 203-209 range since March. I'm okay with that, but I do want to get to 185 eventually. I think I need a full reset before trying restriction again.
Have a little vacation next week and was planning a diet break then anyway. Suggestions for a target calorie level for the diet break? I'm hoping to avoid a weight spike (for mental reasons), but I realize that may be unavoidable if I substantially increase calories. Was thinking probably a month at a higher calorie level.
Thank you.0 -
alteredsteve175 wrote: »Hey there! Need a little guidance here. I appreciate the advice I have gotten here in the past.
63 year old male. 5'10". Workout 3 to 5 times a week. Started at 250 lbs. - have been as low as 202 - goal is 175-185 (if I can get there).
Had bodyfat measured with calipers by a trainer last month - 20.7%. Did a metabolic V02 test a couple of weeks ago - predicted RMR was 1740 - V02 was 286 - actual RMR was 1990.
I have been experimenting with varying calorie levels (2250 down to 1700) since my last diet break in December. Weight has been in the 203-209 range since March. I'm okay with that, but I do want to get to 185 eventually. I think I need a full reset before trying restriction again.
Have a little vacation next week and was planning a diet break then anyway. Suggestions for a target calorie level for the diet break? I'm hoping to avoid a weight spike (for mental reasons), but I realize that may be unavoidable if I substantially increase calories. Was thinking probably a month at a higher calorie level.
Thank you.
Since your tested RMR is so much better than predicted, I'd also suggest using www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/ where I think you can enter in BF% method, just to compare BMR.
Otherwise just use the normal multiplier with your tested RMR -
Lightly Active 1.4
Active 1.6
Very Active 1.8
(those are MFP values based on much newer studies that don't even consider exercise - and yet they are higher than the multipliers Harris used in 1919 study that have been found too low used on almost all other TDEE calcs that only consider exercise but no daily activity changes)
Because you'll want to adjust the calorie level to match the new activity level since on vacation - perhaps not exercising as much - but perhaps more daily activity.
No diet needs to be below your tested RMR, unless bed ridden and your TDEE is just massively low. You should have enough range above RMR for a reasonable deficit.
So if you'll be Lightly Active - which is above 4000 to about 6000 daily steps on vacation - looks like 2800 will be it.
And if going for a month break, you'll have to adjust again when off vacation and back to normal schedule. Estimate as needed for changes.
You can use this, and adjust your height until the BMR reads at your measured RMR. Just follow directions in red for getting your own copy.
Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing
Looks like you need to be at 86 inches to have BMR be 1990.
That way you can change it as exercise starts back up again.
Excellent job with having likely higher LBM than expected for average gender, age, weight, height.
Side curious - what is that reading for VO2, was that total volume per min? Math doesn't work out right for that either though, so just wondering.
3 -
alteredsteve175 wrote: »Hey there! Need a little guidance here. I appreciate the advice I have gotten here in the past.
63 year old male. 5'10". Workout 3 to 5 times a week. Started at 250 lbs. - have been as low as 202 - goal is 175-185 (if I can get there).
Had bodyfat measured with calipers by a trainer last month - 20.7%. Did a metabolic V02 test a couple of weeks ago - predicted RMR was 1740 - V02 was 286 - actual RMR was 1990.
I have been experimenting with varying calorie levels (2250 down to 1700) since my last diet break in December. Weight has been in the 203-209 range since March. I'm okay with that, but I do want to get to 185 eventually. I think I need a full reset before trying restriction again.
Have a little vacation next week and was planning a diet break then anyway. Suggestions for a target calorie level for the diet break? I'm hoping to avoid a weight spike (for mental reasons), but I realize that may be unavoidable if I substantially increase calories. Was thinking probably a month at a higher calorie level.
Thank you.
Since your tested RMR is so much better than predicted, I'd also suggest using www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/ where I think you can enter in BF% method, just to compare BMR.
Otherwise just use the normal multiplier with your tested RMR -
Lightly Active 1.4
Active 1.6
Very Active 1.8
(those are MFP values based on much newer studies that don't even consider exercise - and yet they are higher than the multipliers Harris used in 1919 study that have been found too low used on almost all other TDEE calcs that only consider exercise but no daily activity changes)
Because you'll want to adjust the calorie level to match the new activity level since on vacation - perhaps not exercising as much - but perhaps more daily activity.
No diet needs to be below your tested RMR, unless bed ridden and your TDEE is just massively low. You should have enough range above RMR for a reasonable deficit.
So if you'll be Lightly Active - which is above 4000 to about 6000 daily steps on vacation - looks like 2800 will be it.
And if going for a month break, you'll have to adjust again when off vacation and back to normal schedule. Estimate as needed for changes.
You can use this, and adjust your height until the BMR reads at your measured RMR. Just follow directions in red for getting your own copy.
Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing
Looks like you need to be at 86 inches to have BMR be 1990.
That way you can change it as exercise starts back up again.
Excellent job with having likely higher LBM than expected for average gender, age, weight, height.
Side curious - what is that reading for VO2, was that total volume per min? Math doesn't work out right for that either though, so just wondering.
Thanks, @heybales. Regarding that VO2 reading - I'm not sure what that is measuring. I don't have the test notes with me right now. I will ask the trainer who administered the test and report back. A local gym is offering the test and I opted for it in the interest of finding the proper calorie level for myself. I don't understand the science behind the test - yet - I need to learn more.
I'll try eating at 2800 calories. And pray that the gods of gravity don't wreak havoc on me. HAHA!
0 -
From Aug to Jan 1, I lost 24#. Since Jan 1, I've lost only 8.4. I've been struggling a bit, so I've changed up a few things. I did a diet break at the end of March. I've changed up my macros to help me with my satiation. I've changed up the number of calories to adding more on the weekend - that really didn't work. lol. Most recently I'm doing 5:2 IF. That seems to be helping the most because I'd be happy to lose 3/4# per week and I calculated to lose 1# per week and hoping that any errors in logging would make up the difference. Yes I weigh my food. Not religiously, but regularly. Probably 50% weighing, 25% measuring, 25% eye balling or guessing. I've quit drinking wine during the week. The first 7 months - no exercise. Since April I've been doing yoga 2-3 times a week. I wish I had done it sooner. Love it. I keep thinking that maybe water in my muscle due to the new exercise is a slight culprit. My sleep is not the best due to some high stress. I don't know. Maybe all of this is normal. I just thought that I would be a little further along after 10 months.
The good parts. In January, I thought my skin felt and looked saggy especially around my belly. Now I can honestly say that it doesn't have that same squishy saggy appearance. Truthfully I still have ALOT of belly fat to lose, but the skin seems to have tightened up. My side boobs are diminishing and my back fat is trimming down. Even my husband commented on it when he hugged me last night.
Is this all normal or is this an underachievement?
Honestly? I'd commit to weighing everything religiously for 4-6 weeks. You need to establish that you're calculating your calorie intake accurately before looking for other potential reasons for slower weight loss.6 -
alteredsteve175 wrote: »alteredsteve175 wrote: »Hey there! Need a little guidance here. I appreciate the advice I have gotten here in the past.
63 year old male. 5'10". Workout 3 to 5 times a week. Started at 250 lbs. - have been as low as 202 - goal is 175-185 (if I can get there).
Had bodyfat measured with calipers by a trainer last month - 20.7%. Did a metabolic V02 test a couple of weeks ago - predicted RMR was 1740 - V02 was 286 - actual RMR was 1990.
I have been experimenting with varying calorie levels (2250 down to 1700) since my last diet break in December. Weight has been in the 203-209 range since March. I'm okay with that, but I do want to get to 185 eventually. I think I need a full reset before trying restriction again.
Have a little vacation next week and was planning a diet break then anyway. Suggestions for a target calorie level for the diet break? I'm hoping to avoid a weight spike (for mental reasons), but I realize that may be unavoidable if I substantially increase calories. Was thinking probably a month at a higher calorie level.
Thank you.
Since your tested RMR is so much better than predicted, I'd also suggest using www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/ where I think you can enter in BF% method, just to compare BMR.
Otherwise just use the normal multiplier with your tested RMR -
Lightly Active 1.4
Active 1.6
Very Active 1.8
(those are MFP values based on much newer studies that don't even consider exercise - and yet they are higher than the multipliers Harris used in 1919 study that have been found too low used on almost all other TDEE calcs that only consider exercise but no daily activity changes)
Because you'll want to adjust the calorie level to match the new activity level since on vacation - perhaps not exercising as much - but perhaps more daily activity.
No diet needs to be below your tested RMR, unless bed ridden and your TDEE is just massively low. You should have enough range above RMR for a reasonable deficit.
So if you'll be Lightly Active - which is above 4000 to about 6000 daily steps on vacation - looks like 2800 will be it.
And if going for a month break, you'll have to adjust again when off vacation and back to normal schedule. Estimate as needed for changes.
You can use this, and adjust your height until the BMR reads at your measured RMR. Just follow directions in red for getting your own copy.
Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing
Looks like you need to be at 86 inches to have BMR be 1990.
That way you can change it as exercise starts back up again.
Excellent job with having likely higher LBM than expected for average gender, age, weight, height.
Side curious - what is that reading for VO2, was that total volume per min? Math doesn't work out right for that either though, so just wondering.
Thanks, @heybales. Regarding that VO2 reading - I'm not sure what that is measuring. I don't have the test notes with me right now. I will ask the trainer who administered the test and report back. A local gym is offering the test and I opted for it in the interest of finding the proper calorie level for myself. I don't understand the science behind the test - yet - I need to learn more.
I'll try eating at 2800 calories. And pray that the gods of gravity don't wreak havoc on me. HAHA!
Now you got me questioning the validity of the RMR test. I'd assumed that when you mentioned VO2 test it went along with it.
Which is mask on breathing into it, called indirect calorimetry. Since it's used during the VO2 test, usually easy beans to just sit with it for 10-15 min and get RMR reading first - then go about the business of knocking yourself out on a treadmill or exercycle.
But it also requires proper setup of person doing the test - no food or drink 4-5 hrs prior - fasted is best.
No hard workout the day before that body is repairing with elevated metabolism day of test. No workout day of either.
Vans that show up with equipment to gym to do surprise tests are bad news for accuracy, as no one is correctly prepared for it - unless they passed out flyers - but I'd still doubt people were properly prepared.
What was your test?
Yes a trainer could do the mask type test, a tech can, they just need to know how to operate everything. So not a concern about that. But the proper test.
Oh, if you do gain weight - just keep repeating "too fast for fat, therefore Lean Body Mass (LBM)" (which is everything but fat).4 -
alteredsteve175 wrote: »
Thanks, @heybales. Regarding that VO2 reading - I'm not sure what that is measuring. I don't have the test notes with me right now. I will ask the trainer who administered the test and report back. A local gym is offering the test and I opted for it in the interest of finding the proper calorie level for myself. I don't understand the science behind the test - yet - I need to learn more.
I'll try eating at 2800 calories. And pray that the gods of gravity don't wreak havoc on me. HAHA!
Now you got me questioning the validity of the RMR test. I'd assumed that when you mentioned VO2 test it went along with it.
Which is mask on breathing into it, called indirect calorimetry. Since it's used during the VO2 test, usually easy beans to just sit with it for 10-15 min and get RMR reading first - then go about the business of knocking yourself out on a treadmill or exercycle.
But it also requires proper setup of person doing the test - no food or drink 4-5 hrs prior - fasted is best.
No hard workout the day before that body is repairing with elevated metabolism day of test. No workout day of either.
Vans that show up with equipment to gym to do surprise tests are bad news for accuracy, as no one is correctly prepared for it - unless they passed out flyers - but I'd still doubt people were properly prepared.
What was your test?
Yes a trainer could do the mask type test, a tech can, they just need to know how to operate everything. So not a concern about that. But the proper test.
Oh, if you do gain weight - just keep repeating "too fast for fat, therefore Lean Body Mass (LBM)" (which is everything but fat).
This test was done by breathing into a mask. The trainers are supposedly certified regarding testing procedures. The equipment belongs to the gym - no traveling testing van.
I fasted for 12 hours before the test - from 9 PM to 9 AM. No workout during that period. I did a workout about 26 hours prior to the test. Those were the instructions for preparation for this test.
The test form lists "MedGem Metabolic Testing" on the client info sheet. http://www.eatfithealth.com/medgem-metabolic-testing/0
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