Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »@CSARdiver, that's where I'm at now with my endo. If I go above 1, I feel like hell, and I told her that was my limit. My last test was 1.5, the one before that was .5 and I wanted to stay there but then again was worried because I have osteopenia, so it's a balance with not being over-corrected either, so I let her do a small adjustment.
Now I'm regretting it.
My old endo kept insisting that it couldn't possibly be safe for my TSH to be that low, because I'd end up with cardiac problems "if not today, then five years down the road from now."
He never gave me a good answer when I said that well, considering it had been so low for far more than five years, and I was pretty positive my osteopenia was caused by my having an eating disorder...
Ugh - the link to TSH and cardiac arrhythmia was correlative from a few patient diaries and in the original clinical trial. This isn't caused by high or low dosage, but dramatic changes to hormone levels. The risk is also mitigated by adhering to 30 min cardio sessions 5x/week. Physicians should minimize the change in rate, not keep patients at dangerous levels. Personally I would rather spend a few hours week doing cardio that risk pancreatic cancer.
Many old school physicians adhere to the old range of 0.5-5.0 and consider anything below 0.5 hyperthyroid where 0.2 and asymptomatic is much more accurate. How this impacts the individual is key.
The almost funny thing is that the old endo wasn't even old -- I'm older than he was, and he's only seven years out of fellowship! My perception was that he highly resented someone who was a) a patient, and b) not an MD *daring* to tell him that he wasn't pursuing the best course of treatment.
I knew I was done with him when I asked my dietitian to call him -- he insisted that the RMR testing couldn't possibly be accurate, since I'd be losing weight if it were, and that my RMR was probably "really, only 900 or 1000 calories, and maybe you get a few hundred extra for your exercise" (I remember the quote largely because I sat there thinking "Are you seriously telling a patient with an eating disorder that she just needs to restrict more?"), and he insisted that he couldn't give me a better number, because really no one can say for sure what anyone's metabolic rate would be -- to explain why the RMR testing worked, and he refused to take her phone call. If you can't collaborate with other members of my team, I don't need you on my team.5 -
collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »@CSARdiver, that's where I'm at now with my endo. If I go above 1, I feel like hell, and I told her that was my limit. My last test was 1.5, the one before that was .5 and I wanted to stay there but then again was worried because I have osteopenia, so it's a balance with not being over-corrected either, so I let her do a small adjustment.
Now I'm regretting it.
My old endo kept insisting that it couldn't possibly be safe for my TSH to be that low, because I'd end up with cardiac problems "if not today, then five years down the road from now."
He never gave me a good answer when I said that well, considering it had been so low for far more than five years, and I was pretty positive my osteopenia was caused by my having an eating disorder...
Ugh - the link to TSH and cardiac arrhythmia was correlative from a few patient diaries and in the original clinical trial. This isn't caused by high or low dosage, but dramatic changes to hormone levels. The risk is also mitigated by adhering to 30 min cardio sessions 5x/week. Physicians should minimize the change in rate, not keep patients at dangerous levels. Personally I would rather spend a few hours week doing cardio that risk pancreatic cancer.
Many old school physicians adhere to the old range of 0.5-5.0 and consider anything below 0.5 hyperthyroid where 0.2 and asymptomatic is much more accurate. How this impacts the individual is key.
Now see, I was as low as .2 and asymptomatic. I need to have a talk with her. But then again, osteopenia.
Where's the line?
I know for me, it's below 1, but I can't say for sure where it is.1 -
collectingblues wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »@CSARdiver, that's where I'm at now with my endo. If I go above 1, I feel like hell, and I told her that was my limit. My last test was 1.5, the one before that was .5 and I wanted to stay there but then again was worried because I have osteopenia, so it's a balance with not being over-corrected either, so I let her do a small adjustment.
Now I'm regretting it.
My old endo kept insisting that it couldn't possibly be safe for my TSH to be that low, because I'd end up with cardiac problems "if not today, then five years down the road from now."
He never gave me a good answer when I said that well, considering it had been so low for far more than five years, and I was pretty positive my osteopenia was caused by my having an eating disorder...
Ugh - the link to TSH and cardiac arrhythmia was correlative from a few patient diaries and in the original clinical trial. This isn't caused by high or low dosage, but dramatic changes to hormone levels. The risk is also mitigated by adhering to 30 min cardio sessions 5x/week. Physicians should minimize the change in rate, not keep patients at dangerous levels. Personally I would rather spend a few hours week doing cardio that risk pancreatic cancer.
Many old school physicians adhere to the old range of 0.5-5.0 and consider anything below 0.5 hyperthyroid where 0.2 and asymptomatic is much more accurate. How this impacts the individual is key.
Its really frustrating how prevalent those old standards still are - even amongst younger doctors. I don't know why it takes so long for standards for endocrinology to change. I know that back when I was a teen, my family doctor considered the range of "good" to be up to 6.0 and kept insisting that my thyroid function was fine, even though I was showing symptoms of being hypothyroid even then. It was only later after college that I found out that new research had drastically changed that "good" range and that I had likely been hypothyroid all along.
It's even more frustrating because I have a heck of a time getting my endocrynologists to pay attention to my symptoms - as long as the TSH comes back where they think it ought to be, then everything is fine as far as they are concerned. And it doesn't help that I have PCOS as well - I swear, if I didn't tweeze regularly, I could probably be a decent contender for a role as a bearded lady in the circus!
I finally talked my sister into setting up an appointment with a new PCP, and I'm really pushing her to request a full screening from that doctor, including a thyroid ultrasound. Our family has a history of thyroid issues and goiters, with mine turning out to be cancerous. My mother's brother recently passed away from thyroid cancer that was detected too late and had spread to his brain.
What's bad is that we stumbled across my goiters when I was given a neck ultrasound for a completely unrelated issue-the ultrasound technician asked me "do you know that you have goiters?" and I was shocked. And even when I had them forward the results to my endocrynologist, even they said if they hadn't seen it on the ultrasound they wouldn't have believed it because you could not feel them - the surgeon even asked me "are you sure you have goiters" because she couldn't feel them either.
I hope this new doctor for my sister will listen and that my sister will insist, considering our family history. When my sister asked her old doctor to do bloodwork, all the woman checked was TSH and all my sister heard was "your levels are normal". She didn't even give her the number that it came back at, and despite my nagging, I could never get my sister to call down there and insist they give her a copy of her report *sigh* My family are the type that just blindly does whatever the doctor tells them to do without researching anything at all.3 -
From Aug to Jan 1, I lost 24#. Since Jan 1, I've lost only 8.4. I've been struggling a bit, so I've changed up a few things. I did a diet break at the end of March. I've changed up my macros to help me with my satiation. I've changed up the number of calories to adding more on the weekend - that really didn't work. lol. Most recently I'm doing 5:2 IF. That seems to be helping the most because I'd be happy to lose 3/4# per week and I calculated to lose 1# per week and hoping that any errors in logging would make up the difference. Yes I weigh my food. Not religiously, but regularly. Probably 50% weighing, 25% measuring, 25% eye balling or guessing. I've quit drinking wine during the week. The first 7 months - no exercise. Since April I've been doing yoga 2-3 times a week. I wish I had done it sooner. Love it. I keep thinking that maybe water in my muscle due to the new exercise is a slight culprit. My sleep is not the best due to some high stress. I don't know. Maybe all of this is normal. I just thought that I would be a little further along after 10 months.
The good parts. In January, I thought my skin felt and looked saggy especially around my belly. Now I can honestly say that it doesn't have that same squishy saggy appearance. Truthfully I still have ALOT of belly fat to lose, but the skin seems to have tightened up. My side boobs are diminishing and my back fat is trimming down. Even my husband commented on it when he hugged me last night.
Is this all normal or is this an underachievement?2 -
Hey there! Need a little guidance here. I appreciate the advice I have gotten here in the past.
63 year old male. 5'10". Workout 3 to 5 times a week. Started at 250 lbs. - have been as low as 202 - goal is 175-185 (if I can get there).
Had bodyfat measured with calipers by a trainer last month - 20.7%. Did a metabolic V02 test a couple of weeks ago - predicted RMR was 1740 - V02 was 286 - actual RMR was 1990.
I have been experimenting with varying calorie levels (2250 down to 1700) since my last diet break in December. Weight has been in the 203-209 range since March. I'm okay with that, but I do want to get to 185 eventually. I think I need a full reset before trying restriction again.
Have a little vacation next week and was planning a diet break then anyway. Suggestions for a target calorie level for the diet break? I'm hoping to avoid a weight spike (for mental reasons), but I realize that may be unavoidable if I substantially increase calories. Was thinking probably a month at a higher calorie level.
Thank you.0 -
alteredsteve175 wrote: »Hey there! Need a little guidance here. I appreciate the advice I have gotten here in the past.
63 year old male. 5'10". Workout 3 to 5 times a week. Started at 250 lbs. - have been as low as 202 - goal is 175-185 (if I can get there).
Had bodyfat measured with calipers by a trainer last month - 20.7%. Did a metabolic V02 test a couple of weeks ago - predicted RMR was 1740 - V02 was 286 - actual RMR was 1990.
I have been experimenting with varying calorie levels (2250 down to 1700) since my last diet break in December. Weight has been in the 203-209 range since March. I'm okay with that, but I do want to get to 185 eventually. I think I need a full reset before trying restriction again.
Have a little vacation next week and was planning a diet break then anyway. Suggestions for a target calorie level for the diet break? I'm hoping to avoid a weight spike (for mental reasons), but I realize that may be unavoidable if I substantially increase calories. Was thinking probably a month at a higher calorie level.
Thank you.
Since your tested RMR is so much better than predicted, I'd also suggest using www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/ where I think you can enter in BF% method, just to compare BMR.
Otherwise just use the normal multiplier with your tested RMR -
Lightly Active 1.4
Active 1.6
Very Active 1.8
(those are MFP values based on much newer studies that don't even consider exercise - and yet they are higher than the multipliers Harris used in 1919 study that have been found too low used on almost all other TDEE calcs that only consider exercise but no daily activity changes)
Because you'll want to adjust the calorie level to match the new activity level since on vacation - perhaps not exercising as much - but perhaps more daily activity.
No diet needs to be below your tested RMR, unless bed ridden and your TDEE is just massively low. You should have enough range above RMR for a reasonable deficit.
So if you'll be Lightly Active - which is above 4000 to about 6000 daily steps on vacation - looks like 2800 will be it.
And if going for a month break, you'll have to adjust again when off vacation and back to normal schedule. Estimate as needed for changes.
You can use this, and adjust your height until the BMR reads at your measured RMR. Just follow directions in red for getting your own copy.
Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing
Looks like you need to be at 86 inches to have BMR be 1990.
That way you can change it as exercise starts back up again.
Excellent job with having likely higher LBM than expected for average gender, age, weight, height.
Side curious - what is that reading for VO2, was that total volume per min? Math doesn't work out right for that either though, so just wondering.
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alteredsteve175 wrote: »Hey there! Need a little guidance here. I appreciate the advice I have gotten here in the past.
63 year old male. 5'10". Workout 3 to 5 times a week. Started at 250 lbs. - have been as low as 202 - goal is 175-185 (if I can get there).
Had bodyfat measured with calipers by a trainer last month - 20.7%. Did a metabolic V02 test a couple of weeks ago - predicted RMR was 1740 - V02 was 286 - actual RMR was 1990.
I have been experimenting with varying calorie levels (2250 down to 1700) since my last diet break in December. Weight has been in the 203-209 range since March. I'm okay with that, but I do want to get to 185 eventually. I think I need a full reset before trying restriction again.
Have a little vacation next week and was planning a diet break then anyway. Suggestions for a target calorie level for the diet break? I'm hoping to avoid a weight spike (for mental reasons), but I realize that may be unavoidable if I substantially increase calories. Was thinking probably a month at a higher calorie level.
Thank you.
Since your tested RMR is so much better than predicted, I'd also suggest using www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/ where I think you can enter in BF% method, just to compare BMR.
Otherwise just use the normal multiplier with your tested RMR -
Lightly Active 1.4
Active 1.6
Very Active 1.8
(those are MFP values based on much newer studies that don't even consider exercise - and yet they are higher than the multipliers Harris used in 1919 study that have been found too low used on almost all other TDEE calcs that only consider exercise but no daily activity changes)
Because you'll want to adjust the calorie level to match the new activity level since on vacation - perhaps not exercising as much - but perhaps more daily activity.
No diet needs to be below your tested RMR, unless bed ridden and your TDEE is just massively low. You should have enough range above RMR for a reasonable deficit.
So if you'll be Lightly Active - which is above 4000 to about 6000 daily steps on vacation - looks like 2800 will be it.
And if going for a month break, you'll have to adjust again when off vacation and back to normal schedule. Estimate as needed for changes.
You can use this, and adjust your height until the BMR reads at your measured RMR. Just follow directions in red for getting your own copy.
Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing
Looks like you need to be at 86 inches to have BMR be 1990.
That way you can change it as exercise starts back up again.
Excellent job with having likely higher LBM than expected for average gender, age, weight, height.
Side curious - what is that reading for VO2, was that total volume per min? Math doesn't work out right for that either though, so just wondering.
Thanks, @heybales. Regarding that VO2 reading - I'm not sure what that is measuring. I don't have the test notes with me right now. I will ask the trainer who administered the test and report back. A local gym is offering the test and I opted for it in the interest of finding the proper calorie level for myself. I don't understand the science behind the test - yet - I need to learn more.
I'll try eating at 2800 calories. And pray that the gods of gravity don't wreak havoc on me. HAHA!
0 -
From Aug to Jan 1, I lost 24#. Since Jan 1, I've lost only 8.4. I've been struggling a bit, so I've changed up a few things. I did a diet break at the end of March. I've changed up my macros to help me with my satiation. I've changed up the number of calories to adding more on the weekend - that really didn't work. lol. Most recently I'm doing 5:2 IF. That seems to be helping the most because I'd be happy to lose 3/4# per week and I calculated to lose 1# per week and hoping that any errors in logging would make up the difference. Yes I weigh my food. Not religiously, but regularly. Probably 50% weighing, 25% measuring, 25% eye balling or guessing. I've quit drinking wine during the week. The first 7 months - no exercise. Since April I've been doing yoga 2-3 times a week. I wish I had done it sooner. Love it. I keep thinking that maybe water in my muscle due to the new exercise is a slight culprit. My sleep is not the best due to some high stress. I don't know. Maybe all of this is normal. I just thought that I would be a little further along after 10 months.
The good parts. In January, I thought my skin felt and looked saggy especially around my belly. Now I can honestly say that it doesn't have that same squishy saggy appearance. Truthfully I still have ALOT of belly fat to lose, but the skin seems to have tightened up. My side boobs are diminishing and my back fat is trimming down. Even my husband commented on it when he hugged me last night.
Is this all normal or is this an underachievement?
Honestly? I'd commit to weighing everything religiously for 4-6 weeks. You need to establish that you're calculating your calorie intake accurately before looking for other potential reasons for slower weight loss.6 -
alteredsteve175 wrote: »alteredsteve175 wrote: »Hey there! Need a little guidance here. I appreciate the advice I have gotten here in the past.
63 year old male. 5'10". Workout 3 to 5 times a week. Started at 250 lbs. - have been as low as 202 - goal is 175-185 (if I can get there).
Had bodyfat measured with calipers by a trainer last month - 20.7%. Did a metabolic V02 test a couple of weeks ago - predicted RMR was 1740 - V02 was 286 - actual RMR was 1990.
I have been experimenting with varying calorie levels (2250 down to 1700) since my last diet break in December. Weight has been in the 203-209 range since March. I'm okay with that, but I do want to get to 185 eventually. I think I need a full reset before trying restriction again.
Have a little vacation next week and was planning a diet break then anyway. Suggestions for a target calorie level for the diet break? I'm hoping to avoid a weight spike (for mental reasons), but I realize that may be unavoidable if I substantially increase calories. Was thinking probably a month at a higher calorie level.
Thank you.
Since your tested RMR is so much better than predicted, I'd also suggest using www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/ where I think you can enter in BF% method, just to compare BMR.
Otherwise just use the normal multiplier with your tested RMR -
Lightly Active 1.4
Active 1.6
Very Active 1.8
(those are MFP values based on much newer studies that don't even consider exercise - and yet they are higher than the multipliers Harris used in 1919 study that have been found too low used on almost all other TDEE calcs that only consider exercise but no daily activity changes)
Because you'll want to adjust the calorie level to match the new activity level since on vacation - perhaps not exercising as much - but perhaps more daily activity.
No diet needs to be below your tested RMR, unless bed ridden and your TDEE is just massively low. You should have enough range above RMR for a reasonable deficit.
So if you'll be Lightly Active - which is above 4000 to about 6000 daily steps on vacation - looks like 2800 will be it.
And if going for a month break, you'll have to adjust again when off vacation and back to normal schedule. Estimate as needed for changes.
You can use this, and adjust your height until the BMR reads at your measured RMR. Just follow directions in red for getting your own copy.
Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing
Looks like you need to be at 86 inches to have BMR be 1990.
That way you can change it as exercise starts back up again.
Excellent job with having likely higher LBM than expected for average gender, age, weight, height.
Side curious - what is that reading for VO2, was that total volume per min? Math doesn't work out right for that either though, so just wondering.
Thanks, @heybales. Regarding that VO2 reading - I'm not sure what that is measuring. I don't have the test notes with me right now. I will ask the trainer who administered the test and report back. A local gym is offering the test and I opted for it in the interest of finding the proper calorie level for myself. I don't understand the science behind the test - yet - I need to learn more.
I'll try eating at 2800 calories. And pray that the gods of gravity don't wreak havoc on me. HAHA!
Now you got me questioning the validity of the RMR test. I'd assumed that when you mentioned VO2 test it went along with it.
Which is mask on breathing into it, called indirect calorimetry. Since it's used during the VO2 test, usually easy beans to just sit with it for 10-15 min and get RMR reading first - then go about the business of knocking yourself out on a treadmill or exercycle.
But it also requires proper setup of person doing the test - no food or drink 4-5 hrs prior - fasted is best.
No hard workout the day before that body is repairing with elevated metabolism day of test. No workout day of either.
Vans that show up with equipment to gym to do surprise tests are bad news for accuracy, as no one is correctly prepared for it - unless they passed out flyers - but I'd still doubt people were properly prepared.
What was your test?
Yes a trainer could do the mask type test, a tech can, they just need to know how to operate everything. So not a concern about that. But the proper test.
Oh, if you do gain weight - just keep repeating "too fast for fat, therefore Lean Body Mass (LBM)" (which is everything but fat).4 -
alteredsteve175 wrote: »
Thanks, @heybales. Regarding that VO2 reading - I'm not sure what that is measuring. I don't have the test notes with me right now. I will ask the trainer who administered the test and report back. A local gym is offering the test and I opted for it in the interest of finding the proper calorie level for myself. I don't understand the science behind the test - yet - I need to learn more.
I'll try eating at 2800 calories. And pray that the gods of gravity don't wreak havoc on me. HAHA!
Now you got me questioning the validity of the RMR test. I'd assumed that when you mentioned VO2 test it went along with it.
Which is mask on breathing into it, called indirect calorimetry. Since it's used during the VO2 test, usually easy beans to just sit with it for 10-15 min and get RMR reading first - then go about the business of knocking yourself out on a treadmill or exercycle.
But it also requires proper setup of person doing the test - no food or drink 4-5 hrs prior - fasted is best.
No hard workout the day before that body is repairing with elevated metabolism day of test. No workout day of either.
Vans that show up with equipment to gym to do surprise tests are bad news for accuracy, as no one is correctly prepared for it - unless they passed out flyers - but I'd still doubt people were properly prepared.
What was your test?
Yes a trainer could do the mask type test, a tech can, they just need to know how to operate everything. So not a concern about that. But the proper test.
Oh, if you do gain weight - just keep repeating "too fast for fat, therefore Lean Body Mass (LBM)" (which is everything but fat).
This test was done by breathing into a mask. The trainers are supposedly certified regarding testing procedures. The equipment belongs to the gym - no traveling testing van.
I fasted for 12 hours before the test - from 9 PM to 9 AM. No workout during that period. I did a workout about 26 hours prior to the test. Those were the instructions for preparation for this test.
The test form lists "MedGem Metabolic Testing" on the client info sheet. http://www.eatfithealth.com/medgem-metabolic-testing/0 -
That's valid then.
It's when a van shows up with the equipment at gym or a mall or GNC store or similar and does cut rate tests.
Besides the fact the people are unlikely to be in correct state, I always wonder if this is just prior to spending extra money getting it calibrated and some replacement parts, so getting as much revenue out of the old at possible.0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »From Aug to Jan 1, I lost 24#. Since Jan 1, I've lost only 8.4. I've been struggling a bit, so I've changed up a few things. I did a diet break at the end of March. I've changed up my macros to help me with my satiation. I've changed up the number of calories to adding more on the weekend - that really didn't work. lol. Most recently I'm doing 5:2 IF. That seems to be helping the most because I'd be happy to lose 3/4# per week and I calculated to lose 1# per week and hoping that any errors in logging would make up the difference. Yes I weigh my food. Not religiously, but regularly. Probably 50% weighing, 25% measuring, 25% eye balling or guessing. I've quit drinking wine during the week. The first 7 months - no exercise. Since April I've been doing yoga 2-3 times a week. I wish I had done it sooner. Love it. I keep thinking that maybe water in my muscle due to the new exercise is a slight culprit. My sleep is not the best due to some high stress. I don't know. Maybe all of this is normal. I just thought that I would be a little further along after 10 months.
The good parts. In January, I thought my skin felt and looked saggy especially around my belly. Now I can honestly say that it doesn't have that same squishy saggy appearance. Truthfully I still have ALOT of belly fat to lose, but the skin seems to have tightened up. My side boobs are diminishing and my back fat is trimming down. Even my husband commented on it when he hugged me last night.
Is this all normal or is this an underachievement?
Honestly? I'd commit to weighing everything religiously for 4-6 weeks. You need to establish that you're calculating your calorie intake accurately before looking for other potential reasons for slower weight loss.
Agreed. The phrases "it works until it doesn't" and "what gets measured gets managed" apply here. If you're guessing 25% of the time, and loosely measuring another 25%, that's 50% of accountability that gets lost. You don't need to be neurotic about weighing your food at all times in the future, but troubleshooting begins with being able to know where you stand currently, and you want to be as accurate with objective data as possible before looking elsewhere.
Losing fat in the beginning is easy for most because there's some certainty that there's a deficit occurring compared to pre-dieting baseline intake, when dieters become mindful about their food. Once it stops working, then it's time to dial it in.
The hierarchy for body composition always follows: calories > macros [protein > carbs/fat] > micros > meal timing > supplements; and for activity: strength training > cardio (HIIT > LISS), where all the preceding categories should be taken into account before moving onto the next.
Alternatively, you can always eat like a robot:
https://www.facebook.com/chrismasterjohn/videos/1671524842883137/3 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »From Aug to Jan 1, I lost 24#. Since Jan 1, I've lost only 8.4. I've been struggling a bit, so I've changed up a few things. I did a diet break at the end of March. I've changed up my macros to help me with my satiation. I've changed up the number of calories to adding more on the weekend - that really didn't work. lol. Most recently I'm doing 5:2 IF. That seems to be helping the most because I'd be happy to lose 3/4# per week and I calculated to lose 1# per week and hoping that any errors in logging would make up the difference. Yes I weigh my food. Not religiously, but regularly. Probably 50% weighing, 25% measuring, 25% eye balling or guessing. I've quit drinking wine during the week. The first 7 months - no exercise. Since April I've been doing yoga 2-3 times a week. I wish I had done it sooner. Love it. I keep thinking that maybe water in my muscle due to the new exercise is a slight culprit. My sleep is not the best due to some high stress. I don't know. Maybe all of this is normal. I just thought that I would be a little further along after 10 months.
The good parts. In January, I thought my skin felt and looked saggy especially around my belly. Now I can honestly say that it doesn't have that same squishy saggy appearance. Truthfully I still have ALOT of belly fat to lose, but the skin seems to have tightened up. My side boobs are diminishing and my back fat is trimming down. Even my husband commented on it when he hugged me last night.
Is this all normal or is this an underachievement?
Honestly? I'd commit to weighing everything religiously for 4-6 weeks. You need to establish that you're calculating your calorie intake accurately before looking for other potential reasons for slower weight loss.
Agreed. The phrases "it works until it doesn't" and "what gets measured gets managed" apply here. If you're guessing 25% of the time, and loosely measuring another 25%, that's 50% of accountability that gets lost. You don't need to be neurotic about weighing your food at all times in the future, but troubleshooting begins with being able to know where you stand currently, and you want to be as accurate with objective data as possible before looking elsewhere.
Losing fat in the beginning is easy for most because there's some certainty that there's a deficit occurring compared to pre-dieting baseline intake, when dieters become mindful about their food. Once it stops working, then it's time to dial it in.
Yup. It's all about controlling the variables that you can, so you can start ruling things out as being contributing factors. Or something like that.
The upside of that is that if there legitimately *is* something wrong, and you've got a good physician who listens, you can then go back to them with a list of things that you can definitely rule out. The downside, of course, that most physicians seem to believe that patients don't know what they eat, and thus it must always be the patient's fault. (Yup. Still harboring a lot of bitterness over this one.)
But at least if you know you're being completely honest with yourself, and you know that your tracking is absolutely correct -- and, likewise, that your expenditures are tracked as accurately as you can get them -- you know that it's either a place where *you* need to tighten up, or you're at a place where you need to start looking at the other trickle-down factors like cortisol, metabolic adaptations, etc.
tl;dr: Eliminating the variables gets you down the right path.
Like, for me, I went all hypervigilance in my tracking -- I was already there to some degree, but stepped it up eleventymillion notches. (Now the goal is figuring out how to trust myself to dial it back.) When that didn't fix it, and I switched dietitians, I had RMR testing down at a legit lab. That came back showing it was actually *higher* than we projected it would be, so while it created more headtilting, it also eliminated any concerns about metabolic adaptation.
I then asked my then-GP for cortisol testing. He refused, and told me to ask my endo at my next appointment. Endo refused, and by that point I was pretty sure it was all thyroid, based on what my data showed the correlation to be between TSH, restriction, and optimal dosing... But I asked my new GP if *she* would run cortisol tests. And we saw that despite everyone thinking that cortisol *must* be elevated... it was actually on the lower side of normal.
Which sent us back to thyroid. Even my current GP concurred that it must be thyroid, but she was listening to the old endo, who insisted that no, TSH wasn't affected at all by restriction (despite significant peer-reviewed literature demonstrating the opposite). So she started going down this "Well, you're not *clinically* anorexic, but your body must think you are, and you just have to start eating more." Which made no sense to me, considering that full-fledged anorexics -- as opposed to my atypical status -- have these results at much lower weights. And it especially didn't make sense when she was claiming the latter, while denying that the former could happen.
So I finally found an endo who would look at the actual data instead of the "we rarely see this, so it must be your fault and you must be eating too much" perspective. And yup -- the TSH was artificially low, so we upped the dose. Now, a month later, I'm losing on target, and on a week-to-week basis, my weight loss is now within 10 percent of what would be expected that week based on my expenditures and intake. Sometimes it's more, and sometimes it's less. Just like how "normal" people lose weight.
But we never would have gotten here if I hadn't been able to categorically rule out variables along the way.8 -
Hi peeps! Dropping back in after my holiday to Greece, to say thanks for all the information I've learned from this thread. I didn't pack food scales, but I did track as best I could. First week I pretty much managed perfect maintenance, the last 3 days I've run a slight deficit, but that's skewed by not eating very much yesterday and doing a lot of walking around airport terminals. Back to normal eating routine today.
I'm up 9 pounds in 10 days, and old me would have been running around with my hair on fire and castigating self for "pigging out" on holiday. New me knows based on the deficit and dietary changes it's all water weight and glycogen refill (possibly with a side order of cortisol since I got in at 5 a.m. Greece time and slept like crap).
Best step day, 27,000 - proper steps too, much of it, since it involved visiting the Acropolis and various other ancient sites around Athens and then walking a kilometre and back from the hotel to the amazing Archaeological Museum. Most of the other days were less taxing but involved similar amounts of clambering up and down very old stone things.
My Fitbit Aria claims I've lost 5% body fat. Yeah, right, scale. It's water weight. Now to see how quickly it comes off 6 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »From Aug to Jan 1, I lost 24#. Since Jan 1, I've lost only 8.4. I've been struggling a bit, so I've changed up a few things. I did a diet break at the end of March. I've changed up my macros to help me with my satiation. I've changed up the number of calories to adding more on the weekend - that really didn't work. lol. Most recently I'm doing 5:2 IF. That seems to be helping the most because I'd be happy to lose 3/4# per week and I calculated to lose 1# per week and hoping that any errors in logging would make up the difference. Yes I weigh my food. Not religiously, but regularly. Probably 50% weighing, 25% measuring, 25% eye balling or guessing. I've quit drinking wine during the week. The first 7 months - no exercise. Since April I've been doing yoga 2-3 times a week. I wish I had done it sooner. Love it. I keep thinking that maybe water in my muscle due to the new exercise is a slight culprit. My sleep is not the best due to some high stress. I don't know. Maybe all of this is normal. I just thought that I would be a little further along after 10 months.
The good parts. In January, I thought my skin felt and looked saggy especially around my belly. Now I can honestly say that it doesn't have that same squishy saggy appearance. Truthfully I still have ALOT of belly fat to lose, but the skin seems to have tightened up. My side boobs are diminishing and my back fat is trimming down. Even my husband commented on it when he hugged me last night.
Is this all normal or is this an underachievement?
Honestly? I'd commit to weighing everything religiously for 4-6 weeks. You need to establish that you're calculating your calorie intake accurately before looking for other potential reasons for slower weight loss.
Agreed. The phrases "it works until it doesn't" and "what gets measured gets managed" apply here. If you're guessing 25% of the time, and loosely measuring another 25%, that's 50% of accountability that gets lost. You don't need to be neurotic about weighing your food at all times in the future, but troubleshooting begins with being able to know where you stand currently, and you want to be as accurate with objective data as possible before looking elsewhere.
Losing fat in the beginning is easy for most because there's some certainty that there's a deficit occurring compared to pre-dieting baseline intake, when dieters become mindful about their food. Once it stops working, then it's time to dial it in.
The hierarchy for body composition always follows: calories > macros [protein > carbs/fat] > micros > meal timing > supplements; and for activity: strength training > cardio (HIIT > LISS), where all the preceding categories should be taken into account before moving onto the next.
Alternatively, you can always eat like a robot:
https://www.facebook.com/chrismasterjohn/videos/1671524842883137/
As always, thank you for responding in a way that makes sense to me. I am vigilant about logging 100% of the things that I eat, but I'm doubling down in June on the accuracy.2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »From Aug to Jan 1, I lost 24#. Since Jan 1, I've lost only 8.4. I've been struggling a bit, so I've changed up a few things. I did a diet break at the end of March. I've changed up my macros to help me with my satiation. I've changed up the number of calories to adding more on the weekend - that really didn't work. lol. Most recently I'm doing 5:2 IF. That seems to be helping the most because I'd be happy to lose 3/4# per week and I calculated to lose 1# per week and hoping that any errors in logging would make up the difference. Yes I weigh my food. Not religiously, but regularly. Probably 50% weighing, 25% measuring, 25% eye balling or guessing. I've quit drinking wine during the week. The first 7 months - no exercise. Since April I've been doing yoga 2-3 times a week. I wish I had done it sooner. Love it. I keep thinking that maybe water in my muscle due to the new exercise is a slight culprit. My sleep is not the best due to some high stress. I don't know. Maybe all of this is normal. I just thought that I would be a little further along after 10 months.
The good parts. In January, I thought my skin felt and looked saggy especially around my belly. Now I can honestly say that it doesn't have that same squishy saggy appearance. Truthfully I still have ALOT of belly fat to lose, but the skin seems to have tightened up. My side boobs are diminishing and my back fat is trimming down. Even my husband commented on it when he hugged me last night.
Is this all normal or is this an underachievement?
Honestly? I'd commit to weighing everything religiously for 4-6 weeks. You need to establish that you're calculating your calorie intake accurately before looking for other potential reasons for slower weight loss.
Agreed. The phrases "it works until it doesn't" and "what gets measured gets managed" apply here. If you're guessing 25% of the time, and loosely measuring another 25%, that's 50% of accountability that gets lost. You don't need to be neurotic about weighing your food at all times in the future, but troubleshooting begins with being able to know where you stand currently, and you want to be as accurate with objective data as possible before looking elsewhere.
Losing fat in the beginning is easy for most because there's some certainty that there's a deficit occurring compared to pre-dieting baseline intake, when dieters become mindful about their food. Once it stops working, then it's time to dial it in.
The hierarchy for body composition always follows: calories > macros [protein > carbs/fat] > micros > meal timing > supplements; and for activity: strength training > cardio (HIIT > LISS), where all the preceding categories should be taken into account before moving onto the next.
Alternatively, you can always eat like a robot:
https://www.facebook.com/chrismasterjohn/videos/1671524842883137/
As always, thank you for responding in a way that makes sense to me. I am vigilant about logging 100% of the things that I eat, but I'm doubling down in June on the accuracy.
You're welcome. To your credit, even haphazard tracking has allowed you to lose weight, so that's still progress, even if it's slowed. Mind you, weight loss will never, ever be linear and fluctuations will occur due to anything life wants to throw your way... and achieving ideal results are painfully longer than anyone wants.
Unless it's your job to meet weight requirements by a certain time (sports/competitions), it's difficult to be that regimented and continuously enjoy it. You do the best you can with what you've got, and as long as the majority of your diet/activity is good, then progress will happen.7 -
wise words to live by anubis
1 -
Just popping in with a bit of a whine after a disheartening conversation with my neurologist yesterday.
After journaling and tracking for a while, it's become quite obvious that botox is only effective for my migraines for two months, and that's a problem because it's dosed every 3 months.
The reason I'm bringing this up? Well, I get exercise induced migraines, and really can't seem to get into any kind of groove and I also am a comfort carb fiend when I have migraines (if they're not to the point of making me throw up, which not all of them are).
So, I am a very bloated mess right now. Everything I do is one step forward, two steps back. All the time. I do two months of work and progress and then have to hit the breaks. Lather, rinse, repeat. This has been going on a while, but it took me a bit to put it all together and actually start journaling it enough to see a pattern.
Unfortunately, there's not anything we can do. It's the intensity of the exercise that seems to trigger the migraines, so a short jog might be okay, but something longer? Nope. Lifting weights? Maybe seriously deloading or body weight. But over and over. Every third month. And then start back up again from there. And maintain while eating all the oatmeal and potatoes and popcorn
So, is this like a month long refeed then, with the carbs or what? 13 -
I am still at 170lbs...breaking from heavy lifting for two weeks (so doing conditioning/circuit type training and lighter weights along with one heavy session Saturdays which is full on strongman, loving it!) Eating at small deficit (250 cals-ish so 2250 daily, with a bump up to maintenance Fridays still) and hoping to lose the last two stone (28lbs) over the next year, rather than with steep deficits and battling hunger and low energy...adding walking back in for cardio.7
-
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Just popping in with a bit of a whine after a disheartening conversation with my neurologist yesterday.
After journaling and tracking for a while, it's become quite obvious that botox is only effective for my migraines for two months, and that's a problem because it's dosed every 3 months.
The reason I'm bringing this up? Well, I get exercise induced migraines, and really can't seem to get into any kind of groove and I also am a comfort carb fiend when I have migraines (if they're not to the point of making me throw up, which not all of them are).
So, I am a very bloated mess right now. Everything I do is one step forward, two steps back. All the time. I do two months of work and progress and then have to hit the breaks. Lather, rinse, repeat. This has been going on a while, but it took me a bit to put it all together and actually start journaling it enough to see a pattern.
Unfortunately, there's not anything we can do. It's the intensity of the exercise that seems to trigger the migraines, so a short jog might be okay, but something longer? Nope. Lifting weights? Maybe seriously deloading or body weight. But over and over. Every third month. And then start back up again from there. And maintain while eating all the oatmeal and potatoes and popcorn
So, is this like a month long refeed then, with the carbs or what?
Sorry to hear that. I don't have experience with migraines, but I am of the mind that if there are limitations, then do what you can to tolerance. Any activity is better than doing none.
I believe the carb cravings are a natural response to the migraines. Whether they provide a physiological benefit for migraiines over a psychological one, I'm not sure, but arguably the type of carbs (natural/whole grain vs refined/processed) would provide a benefit for body composition and cellular activity, assuming you're not totally blowing your maintenance calories
But as I said before, we do what we can with what we have based on what life gives us. Dealing with weddings and funerals for the past month, I've been on a sort of hiatus from any progress and I desperately need a break from partying lol. My training has taken a hit as well as my diet, so I'm basically getting back into the groove as well.10 -
Happy Friday all. I’ve seen and read things that can’t be unseen and since I’ve been on a perpetual party for the past couple months, it continues tonight lol
10 -
So this gal (Stephanie Buttermore) is doing a series of videos based on Lyle's women's book. The third one (not on this playlist yet, but on her channel) is about refeeds and diet breaks.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/videoseries?list=PLfSsah8UsndQ72PMuWAmHNttkJda1icq9
It's a good cliffnotes version for those just finding this thread thanks to the BUMP!5 -
Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »So this gal (Stephanie Buttermore) is doing a series of videos based on Lyle's women's book. The third one (not on this playlist yet, but on her channel) is about refeeds and diet breaks.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/videoseries?list=PLfSsah8UsndQ72PMuWAmHNttkJda1icq9
It's a good cliffnotes version for those just finding this thread thanks to the BUMP!
Thanks for the share. I've got the book and have been chipping at it, but these videos were good reviews.
Note to self: Stick to the Lyle-based videos she's done in the future. Though I think I have a new life goal after watching one of her food day videos... Wow.3 -
Hi all, just checking in! I've been in maintenance since Feb., and am doing well, eating more than expected due to increased energy and activity. I owe a lot to the information, advice and personal experience shared in this thread, especially the emphasis on trusting the process and looking at trends rather than daily ups and downs.
Thank you everyone 17 -
Happy Monday all. For anyone that needs a refresher of what result chasing entails, enjoy this post by Aadam Ali
https://www.facebook.com/728747640541819/posts/1762918070458099/
17 -
Happy Monday all. For anyone that needs a refresher of what result chasing entails, enjoy this post by Aadam Ali
https://www.facebook.com/728747640541819/posts/1762918070458099/
QFT and all around awesomeness! Especially no. 1.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I have celiac disease, so everything I do is gluten free!
To dress up your potatoes, look for different herbs. Chives are good, roasting them with smoked paprika then hitting them with a squirt of lemon juice is tasty too.
Rosemary! Or garlic! A little basil or nasturtium. Or try a little turmeric.2 -
Long overdue update from me. I've been down a deep dark hole of not caring about food or exercise for 3-4 months. Dragging my now considerably chubbier butt back out of it. At least it's winter, so I can hide my sins under clothing. On the downside, it's winter, and eating at a deficit in winter blows.
Planning to do the first couple of weeks (I'm on day 4) at a straight deficit, then back to weekend refeeds. I reckon I'm probably looking at over 3 months (accounting for a diet break in the middle) to get back to where I was. Bah. But, I brought it on myself, and at least I have some extra winter insulation 15 -
I am six months in and I am on my first break. I finally had to give in and stop caring about my ratio of carbs to protein but it has left me hungrier than I like some days. I will have to figure that part out before I lose all of my weight but I have plenty of time. I decided to eat just below my maintenance to give me a buffer since I knew I would be eating out a little more than normal.
I am enjoying it but I am also antsy to get back to my routine. It is hard mentally to put the breaks on something that was working pretty well.
I decided today that instead of jumping back in to full deficit when my time is up I will transition back with 2 days (maybe 3) at half deficit.5 -
I find diet breaks to be so important, I incorporate them when I am cutting once every 6-12 weeks. It gives me some sanity....let's face it, eating less calories than you burn sucks, a diet break is like taking a step back in order to later take 2 steps forward.
In the past, I used to make the mistake of doing an entire cut throughout the whole journey and the last 5 lbs I needed to lose would take forever, I am convinced that had I done a diet break, I would've ended my cut earlier than it should've.7
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