Has Paleo had its day?

soufauxgirl wrote: »

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

Mari22na wrote: »

@tennisdude2004 Don't take the woo's personally. You can't.

I did a paleo/primal/keto/IF combo/BPC. I ate all of the fat, fat, fat. Fat is where it's at. I ate 85% fat and 10% protein and 5% carbs in the form of a frozen spinach ball and ball of wax.

When you come off the keto high, do you really believe you can eat 85% for the rest of your life to maintain what you are doing now. Can I get a witness, when you come off this protocol your body will stack the weight back on like pancakes and taking it off again will be as slow as molasses. Unless you throw yourself into another cycle of keto for giant month hunks of time but with each keto excursion the heart grows faint.

You wake up one day and realize that this cannot go on forever. There are some people here that have garnered respect from everybody. They are not playing games but genuinely want to get the truth out there. Keto is a temporary fix. Start thinking about a strategy that will help keep the positive side effects you like now with your weight and muscle mass.

So much of paleo is absolute malarkey. During the long winter months, the tribes on the plains, northern Canada and elsewhere lived with about 9 months of snow. Lakes and rivers were frozen. There was no fishing going on and hunting for wildgame during blizzards and -40 below temps were a real hardship. Bulletproof coffee and coconut oil for the big WIN...we haven't got the time.

No one owns the term and word paleo. The truth has not been told what those people went through to survive. Keto is temporary. I know a woman who did it for over a year. Wrote up her big success story and then went on a trip to Europe. She ate her way through several countries and rebounded back with every pound plus friends.

She kept trying to get back UP on that high horse and keto wagon but she lost heart.

Woo's = Boo's. They do. But there are some here who really do have your best interest at heart.

Open. Mind. Insert. Possibilities.

I think both Paleo and The Paleo Diet have both been trademarked

Keto might have been a temporary fix for you but for many it’s a gateway into LCHF and it a permanent diet model for millions.

I personally do not eat in a VLCHF model, but I certainly prefer LCHF to a higher carb diet.

I agree an open mind approach is always best.

See bolded. I would really like to see some empirical scientific evidence to back up this comment.

Better still, I would actually like to hear from more than just one person who has had long term success from following LCHF. I can only think of you and one other poster on here that are huge advocates but nobody else.

Thank you @Mari22na for sharing your keto experience and subsequent failure to keep the weight off long term.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that all it takes is a CALORIE DEFICIT to lose weight instead of saying only their way of eating is the best.

Irony alert.

This is why you don't see many posts from people experimenting with or who have fully embraced things such as paleo or keto, etc. The vast majority of responding participants aren't interested in genuine discussion and understanding of the OPs situation. They just want to bash it, in most cases because they don't understand it. You're guilty of the same charge you're aiming at others.

I've had long-term success (6+ years of over 60lbs from my heaviest) following what most would categorize as LCHF (not keto, as I don't see the benefit for myself and I eat way too many vegetables). Add that one to your list, since it seems to be a scorecard you're keeping.

@soufauxgirl I appreciate that.
A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

I went full tilt paleo/primal/keto/IF/eliminate all of things which is the recipe for gaining all of the weight back. It only served to dig a much deeper hole for me. I fell for it hook, line and sinker.

You don't need to count, you don't need to track, eat of all of fat. Fat is where's it's at. Fat, fat, fat for the WIN. Fruit is totally worthless. There's nothing in fruit that you can't get out of a vegetable which is mostly some frozen spinach softball or a pristine bed of kale and spinach to lay your head upon each night.

You won't hear from those who ate it all back. No, because they are starting over again. Over and over and over.
Doing the things you've always done will get you what you've always gotten. Rebound weight gain.

Clean or Dirty Eating. Good or Bad. Naughty or Nice...foods. All or Nothing. That's assigning moral judgments to food and is completely off the charts biased in every way. Everything within my being began to fight against all of these brutally strict protocols. Can you really eat 85% fat, 10% protein and 5% carbs for the rest of your life.
Do you think you can do that. The minute you start sliding back off the goose all of the weight returns with friends.

You know how long it took you to take it off, it will come back at the speed of light. The body is bent on survival. Whether you can admit it or not, dog breath and having your body reek like roadkill is not normal. It's trying to tell you something. Oooo, I know all about fat adaptation and becoming a revved up fat burner rather than a sugar burner is the answer to all of your weight problems. The extinction burst.

I'm not here to burst any bubbles or dreams. I was here a few years before I ever said one word. I began reading the posts of those who won't lead you astray. They're sharing the truth with the perfect mix of common horse sense and brains. I began to change my mind about everything.

I gave myself permission to do everything on my own terms. I started by throwing all of the protocol books in the bin. Honor your hunger. Eat the things you enjoy and find movement that you can actually do for the rest of your life. The body is bent on survival. There's reasonable restriction and overrestriction not only with too little food but dialing everything down into 3 or 4 items. The brain is the most powerful and rugged mountain we will ever have to climb in our lifetime. I've climbed the Grand Tetons.

I know you are stronger now. If it takes a few years before you start sliding off the goose and eating it all back that only adds to the stress. The optimum setpoint can be a slippery sucker that's often out of reach. There's the the brain weight vs. the dream weight. They rarely agree.

The body you have today is where you are now for the foreseeable future. The point being that when you can no longer imagine taking off more body weight because it's not going to change your lifting/running/sprinting abilities or back/hips/knees/feet tolerance of said abilities- working on building a better core is not enough to offset bulging discs, pinched nerves, bone spurs and arthritis - tread lightly.

I don't believe in diets anymore. Tracking my food here is like putting fuel into my vehicle, changing the oil and air filter, checking the air pressure before I head out over the open highway. It's routine maintenance. I'm no longer hung up on food in general and when I stopped letting diets run my life I no longer go thrill eating.

accidentalpancake wrote: »

soufauxgirl wrote: »

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

Mari22na wrote: »

@tennisdude2004 Don't take the woo's personally. You can't.

I did a paleo/primal/keto/IF combo/BPC. I ate all of the fat, fat, fat. Fat is where it's at. I ate 85% fat and 10% protein and 5% carbs in the form of a frozen spinach ball and ball of wax.

When you come off the keto high, do you really believe you can eat 85% for the rest of your life to maintain what you are doing now. Can I get a witness, when you come off this protocol your body will stack the weight back on like pancakes and taking it off again will be as slow as molasses. Unless you throw yourself into another cycle of keto for giant month hunks of time but with each keto excursion the heart grows faint.

You wake up one day and realize that this cannot go on forever. There are some people here that have garnered respect from everybody. They are not playing games but genuinely want to get the truth out there. Keto is a temporary fix. Start thinking about a strategy that will help keep the positive side effects you like now with your weight and muscle mass.

So much of paleo is absolute malarkey. During the long winter months, the tribes on the plains, northern Canada and elsewhere lived with about 9 months of snow. Lakes and rivers were frozen. There was no fishing going on and hunting for wildgame during blizzards and -40 below temps were a real hardship. Bulletproof coffee and coconut oil for the big WIN...we haven't got the time.

No one owns the term and word paleo. The truth has not been told what those people went through to survive. Keto is temporary. I know a woman who did it for over a year. Wrote up her big success story and then went on a trip to Europe. She ate her way through several countries and rebounded back with every pound plus friends.

She kept trying to get back UP on that high horse and keto wagon but she lost heart.

Woo's = Boo's. They do. But there are some here who really do have your best interest at heart.

Open. Mind. Insert. Possibilities.

I think both Paleo and The Paleo Diet have both been trademarked

Keto might have been a temporary fix for you but for many it’s a gateway into LCHF and it a permanent diet model for millions.

I personally do not eat in a VLCHF model, but I certainly prefer LCHF to a higher carb diet.

I agree an open mind approach is always best.

See bolded. I would really like to see some empirical scientific evidence to back up this comment.

Better still, I would actually like to hear from more than just one person who has had long term success from following LCHF. I can only think of you and one other poster on here that are huge advocates but nobody else.

Thank you @Mari22na for sharing your keto experience and subsequent failure to keep the weight off long term.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that all it takes is a CALORIE DEFICIT to lose weight instead of saying only their way of eating is the best.

Irony alert.

This is why you don't see many posts from people experimenting with or who have fully embraced things such as paleo or keto, etc. The vast majority of responding participants aren't interested in genuine discussion and understanding of the OPs situation. They just want to bash it, in most cases because they don't understand it. You're guilty of the same charge you're aiming at others.

I've had long-term success (6+ years of over 60lbs from my heaviest) following what most would categorize as LCHF (not keto, as I don't see the benefit for myself and I eat way too many vegetables). Add that one to your list, since it seems to be a scorecard you're keeping.

Well it sounds like you werent in full blown LCHF mode then if you were eating too many vegetables. Just plain old calorie deficit seems to have done the trick. Well done.

I created a new diet called Gen Z diet. It is the reverse of paleo....Paleo says we should eat like paleolithic folk....my diet says we should eat like Gen Z folk....

soufauxgirl wrote: »

accidentalpancake wrote: »

soufauxgirl wrote: »

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

Mari22na wrote: »

@tennisdude2004 Don't take the woo's personally. You can't.

I did a paleo/primal/keto/IF combo/BPC. I ate all of the fat, fat, fat. Fat is where it's at. I ate 85% fat and 10% protein and 5% carbs in the form of a frozen spinach ball and ball of wax.

When you come off the keto high, do you really believe you can eat 85% for the rest of your life to maintain what you are doing now. Can I get a witness, when you come off this protocol your body will stack the weight back on like pancakes and taking it off again will be as slow as molasses. Unless you throw yourself into another cycle of keto for giant month hunks of time but with each keto excursion the heart grows faint.

You wake up one day and realize that this cannot go on forever. There are some people here that have garnered respect from everybody. They are not playing games but genuinely want to get the truth out there. Keto is a temporary fix. Start thinking about a strategy that will help keep the positive side effects you like now with your weight and muscle mass.

So much of paleo is absolute malarkey. During the long winter months, the tribes on the plains, northern Canada and elsewhere lived with about 9 months of snow. Lakes and rivers were frozen. There was no fishing going on and hunting for wildgame during blizzards and -40 below temps were a real hardship. Bulletproof coffee and coconut oil for the big WIN...we haven't got the time.

No one owns the term and word paleo. The truth has not been told what those people went through to survive. Keto is temporary. I know a woman who did it for over a year. Wrote up her big success story and then went on a trip to Europe. She ate her way through several countries and rebounded back with every pound plus friends.

She kept trying to get back UP on that high horse and keto wagon but she lost heart.

Woo's = Boo's. They do. But there are some here who really do have your best interest at heart.

Open. Mind. Insert. Possibilities.

I think both Paleo and The Paleo Diet have both been trademarked

Keto might have been a temporary fix for you but for many it’s a gateway into LCHF and it a permanent diet model for millions.

I personally do not eat in a VLCHF model, but I certainly prefer LCHF to a higher carb diet.

I agree an open mind approach is always best.

See bolded. I would really like to see some empirical scientific evidence to back up this comment.

Better still, I would actually like to hear from more than just one person who has had long term success from following LCHF. I can only think of you and one other poster on here that are huge advocates but nobody else.

Thank you @Mari22na for sharing your keto experience and subsequent failure to keep the weight off long term.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that all it takes is a CALORIE DEFICIT to lose weight instead of saying only their way of eating is the best.

Irony alert.

This is why you don't see many posts from people experimenting with or who have fully embraced things such as paleo or keto, etc. The vast majority of responding participants aren't interested in genuine discussion and understanding of the OPs situation. They just want to bash it, in most cases because they don't understand it. You're guilty of the same charge you're aiming at others.

I've had long-term success (6+ years of over 60lbs from my heaviest) following what most would categorize as LCHF (not keto, as I don't see the benefit for myself and I eat way too many vegetables). Add that one to your list, since it seems to be a scorecard you're keeping.

Well it sounds like you werent in full blown LCHF mode then if you were eating too many vegetables. Just plain old calorie deficit seems to have done the trick. Well done.

As I knew you probably would, you have perfectly illustrated the issue with your perspective. I made a single, very general statement about my WOE, and you turned that into several assumptions to drive a smug declarative conclusion. No curiosity, no want to understand. You're attempting to take the high road by doing the same thing you're charging keto adherents (of which I am not) of.

Let's review.

I never said anything to indicate that I take issue with the concept of CICO.

I said LCHF, and you have no idea what my intake looks like. Low/high are relative terms, completely dependent on the volume a person eats. My absolute values are going to be higher than 90% of people here due to my size, but my carb intake is still 10%-15% (20% max) on any given day, with fat 50%+. That, my friend, is LCHF no matter how you'd like to slice it.

If you don't have useful input when someone asks for it on a specific eating protocol, why are you speaking? The vast majority of people here have zero experience with or have researched (past reading U.S. News and World Report) different ways of eating. Instead of being dogmatic that nothing aside from moderation and chanting CICO in a dark room will get results, just move along and discuss with those who are similarly inclined. You're in as much of an echo chamber as you think others are.

soufauxgirl wrote: »

accidentalpancake wrote: »

soufauxgirl wrote: »

accidentalpancake wrote: »

soufauxgirl wrote: »

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

Mari22na wrote: »

@tennisdude2004 Don't take the woo's personally. You can't.

I did a paleo/primal/keto/IF combo/BPC. I ate all of the fat, fat, fat. Fat is where it's at. I ate 85% fat and 10% protein and 5% carbs in the form of a frozen spinach ball and ball of wax.

When you come off the keto high, do you really believe you can eat 85% for the rest of your life to maintain what you are doing now. Can I get a witness, when you come off this protocol your body will stack the weight back on like pancakes and taking it off again will be as slow as molasses. Unless you throw yourself into another cycle of keto for giant month hunks of time but with each keto excursion the heart grows faint.

You wake up one day and realize that this cannot go on forever. There are some people here that have garnered respect from everybody. They are not playing games but genuinely want to get the truth out there. Keto is a temporary fix. Start thinking about a strategy that will help keep the positive side effects you like now with your weight and muscle mass.

So much of paleo is absolute malarkey. During the long winter months, the tribes on the plains, northern Canada and elsewhere lived with about 9 months of snow. Lakes and rivers were frozen. There was no fishing going on and hunting for wildgame during blizzards and -40 below temps were a real hardship. Bulletproof coffee and coconut oil for the big WIN...we haven't got the time.

No one owns the term and word paleo. The truth has not been told what those people went through to survive. Keto is temporary. I know a woman who did it for over a year. Wrote up her big success story and then went on a trip to Europe. She ate her way through several countries and rebounded back with every pound plus friends.

She kept trying to get back UP on that high horse and keto wagon but she lost heart.

Woo's = Boo's. They do. But there are some here who really do have your best interest at heart.

Open. Mind. Insert. Possibilities.

I think both Paleo and The Paleo Diet have both been trademarked

Keto might have been a temporary fix for you but for many it’s a gateway into LCHF and it a permanent diet model for millions.

I personally do not eat in a VLCHF model, but I certainly prefer LCHF to a higher carb diet.

I agree an open mind approach is always best.

See bolded. I would really like to see some empirical scientific evidence to back up this comment.

Better still, I would actually like to hear from more than just one person who has had long term success from following LCHF. I can only think of you and one other poster on here that are huge advocates but nobody else.

Thank you @Mari22na for sharing your keto experience and subsequent failure to keep the weight off long term.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that all it takes is a CALORIE DEFICIT to lose weight instead of saying only their way of eating is the best.

Irony alert.

This is why you don't see many posts from people experimenting with or who have fully embraced things such as paleo or keto, etc. The vast majority of responding participants aren't interested in genuine discussion and understanding of the OPs situation. They just want to bash it, in most cases because they don't understand it. You're guilty of the same charge you're aiming at others.

I've had long-term success (6+ years of over 60lbs from my heaviest) following what most would categorize as LCHF (not keto, as I don't see the benefit for myself and I eat way too many vegetables). Add that one to your list, since it seems to be a scorecard you're keeping.

Well it sounds like you werent in full blown LCHF mode then if you were eating too many vegetables. Just plain old calorie deficit seems to have done the trick. Well done.

As I knew you probably would, you have perfectly illustrated the issue with your perspective. I made a single, very general statement about my WOE, and you turned that into several assumptions to drive a smug declarative conclusion. No curiosity, no want to understand. You're attempting to take the high road by doing the same thing you're charging keto adherents (of which I am not) of.

Let's review.

I never said anything to indicate that I take issue with the concept of CICO.

I said LCHF, and you have no idea what my intake looks like. Low/high are relative terms, completely dependent on the volume a person eats. My absolute values are going to be higher than 90% of people here due to my size, but my carb intake is still 10%-15% (20% max) on any given day, with fat 50%+. That, my friend, is LCHF no matter how you'd like to slice it.

If you don't have useful input when someone asks for it on a specific eating protocol, why are you speaking? The vast majority of people here have zero experience with or have researched (past reading U.S. News and World Report) different ways of eating. Instead of being dogmatic that nothing aside from moderation and chanting CICO in a dark room will get results, just move along and discuss with those who are similarly inclined. You're in as much of an echo chamber as you think others are.

Ultimately a calorie deficit is how you have achieved weight loss, we are in agreeance with that. Its hard for me to understand why its necessary to have to lower your carb intake so drastically though when in theory its not really necessary. You can still enjoy a moderate carb intake. It would be a miserable angry existence for me to maintain a LCHF regime, but each to their own and kudos to you for being able to keep that up for so long.

Again, the issue is that you are creating a narrative to argue. I didn't once say that it's necessary. I said that it works for me. It's not restrictive, and I'm not missing out on anything. To the contrary, I get to enjoy the foods the give me energy and that I enjoy eating.

I think this makes the whole point. If people don't think a paleo/keto/etc. lifestyle will work for them, fine. I don't see anyone here trying to shove it down anyone else's throat. Quite the opposite, in fact. I'm not a fan of keto myself, and think it does fall under the umbrella of craze/fad, but paleo really boils down to a whole foods diet with a focus on ethically sourced foods and not what gets repeated ad infinitum here (mimicry of paleolithic diet, tons of fat, no vegetables, etc.), just to soothe insecurities of people who can't be bothered to research. If it's not your bag, just move on. You're not 'saving' anyone by insulting approaches that plenty of people have success with. Not everyone can give up bread, but not everyone can successfully maintain a healthy weight while bread is part of it either.

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

AnvilHead wrote: »

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

soufauxgirl wrote: »

accidentalpancake wrote: »

soufauxgirl wrote: »

accidentalpancake wrote: »

soufauxgirl wrote: »

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

Mari22na wrote: »

@tennisdude2004 Don't take the woo's personally. You can't.

I did a paleo/primal/keto/IF combo/BPC. I ate all of the fat, fat, fat. Fat is where it's at. I ate 85% fat and 10% protein and 5% carbs in the form of a frozen spinach ball and ball of wax.

When you come off the keto high, do you really believe you can eat 85% for the rest of your life to maintain what you are doing now. Can I get a witness, when you come off this protocol your body will stack the weight back on like pancakes and taking it off again will be as slow as molasses. Unless you throw yourself into another cycle of keto for giant month hunks of time but with each keto excursion the heart grows faint.

You wake up one day and realize that this cannot go on forever. There are some people here that have garnered respect from everybody. They are not playing games but genuinely want to get the truth out there. Keto is a temporary fix. Start thinking about a strategy that will help keep the positive side effects you like now with your weight and muscle mass.

So much of paleo is absolute malarkey. During the long winter months, the tribes on the plains, northern Canada and elsewhere lived with about 9 months of snow. Lakes and rivers were frozen. There was no fishing going on and hunting for wildgame during blizzards and -40 below temps were a real hardship. Bulletproof coffee and coconut oil for the big WIN...we haven't got the time.

No one owns the term and word paleo. The truth has not been told what those people went through to survive. Keto is temporary. I know a woman who did it for over a year. Wrote up her big success story and then went on a trip to Europe. She ate her way through several countries and rebounded back with every pound plus friends.

She kept trying to get back UP on that high horse and keto wagon but she lost heart.

Woo's = Boo's. They do. But there are some here who really do have your best interest at heart.

Open. Mind. Insert. Possibilities.

I think both Paleo and The Paleo Diet have both been trademarked

Keto might have been a temporary fix for you but for many it’s a gateway into LCHF and it a permanent diet model for millions.

I personally do not eat in a VLCHF model, but I certainly prefer LCHF to a higher carb diet.

I agree an open mind approach is always best.

See bolded. I would really like to see some empirical scientific evidence to back up this comment.

Better still, I would actually like to hear from more than just one person who has had long term success from following LCHF. I can only think of you and one other poster on here that are huge advocates but nobody else.

Thank you @Mari22na for sharing your keto experience and subsequent failure to keep the weight off long term.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that all it takes is a CALORIE DEFICIT to lose weight instead of saying only their way of eating is the best.

Irony alert.

This is why you don't see many posts from people experimenting with or who have fully embraced things such as paleo or keto, etc. The vast majority of responding participants aren't interested in genuine discussion and understanding of the OPs situation. They just want to bash it, in most cases because they don't understand it. You're guilty of the same charge you're aiming at others.

I've had long-term success (6+ years of over 60lbs from my heaviest) following what most would categorize as LCHF (not keto, as I don't see the benefit for myself and I eat way too many vegetables). Add that one to your list, since it seems to be a scorecard you're keeping.

Well it sounds like you werent in full blown LCHF mode then if you were eating too many vegetables. Just plain old calorie deficit seems to have done the trick. Well done.

As I knew you probably would, you have perfectly illustrated the issue with your perspective. I made a single, very general statement about my WOE, and you turned that into several assumptions to drive a smug declarative conclusion. No curiosity, no want to understand. You're attempting to take the high road by doing the same thing you're charging keto adherents (of which I am not) of.

Let's review.

I never said anything to indicate that I take issue with the concept of CICO.

I said LCHF, and you have no idea what my intake looks like. Low/high are relative terms, completely dependent on the volume a person eats. My absolute values are going to be higher than 90% of people here due to my size, but my carb intake is still 10%-15% (20% max) on any given day, with fat 50%+. That, my friend, is LCHF no matter how you'd like to slice it.

If you don't have useful input when someone asks for it on a specific eating protocol, why are you speaking? The vast majority of people here have zero experience with or have researched (past reading U.S. News and World Report) different ways of eating. Instead of being dogmatic that nothing aside from moderation and chanting CICO in a dark room will get results, just move along and discuss with those who are similarly inclined. You're in as much of an echo chamber as you think others are.

Ultimately a calorie deficit is how you have achieved weight loss, we are in agreeance with that. Its hard for me to understand why its necessary to have to lower your carb intake so drastically though when in theory its not really necessary. You can still enjoy a moderate carb intake. It would be a miserable angry existence for me to maintain a LCHF regime, but each to their own and kudos to you for being able to keep that up for so long.

Moderate to high carbs are technically unnecessary.

Not everyone has the lack of ability to reduce their carb intake as you do by the sounds of it.

It would probably be best to not judge everybody by your own dietary tastes.

Low to very low carbs are technically unnecessary too.

All that's necessary for weight/fat loss is a calorie deficit. By whatever means it is created/maintained.

Agreed, but as meta analysis proves both low carb and moderate to high carb are optimal.

So why would anyone advice a person against doing either?

You advise someone against low carb (or any level of carbs for that matter) when it's arbitrarily chosen because they heard "it works" or got suckered or scared into it. The best advice for a starting dieter is to just start eating at a deficit and adjust their macros based on their experience and preferences. MFP macro levels are fine as a starting point because they're closer to how many people eat than any macro extremes. Even then, people are also told these macros are not set in stone and that as long as they get their minimum protein and fat they can fill the rest with whatever they want. Extra steps are unnecessary until they are. The advice is not against low carb, but against lack of flexibility and arbitrary rules that lack personalization.