A marathon for little ol me?
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Duck_Puddle wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Duck_Puddle wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »
Panini911 - the totality of your miles is what has the biggest effect on your ability to run well and race well, not just the length of your long runs. The medium long runs are very important and will make your long runs feel easier, though still not easy. If your long run is 10 miles and your total miles for the week is 15, you're going to struggle. If your long run is 10 miles but your total mileage is 30, it's not that hard. During marathon training, I have one long run (2-3.5 hours) and two runs that last 90 minutes or so, plus two shorter ones for recovery or speedwork. Those 8-10 mile MLRs make the 20 milers possible. Finding/making time to do that much training is one reason some people limit the number of marathons they do and a lot of people decide that one is enough.
and this is exactly why i always think i want to do a marathon, until i consider the reality of the training! :laugh:
Amen! I knew it but I didn’t KNOW it until I got up to my eyeballs and it got very real. I’m really feeling like I’m going to be a one and done kind of a girl. My runs are a bit longer than @spiriteagle99. I’m on team “marathons are like mullets: the party is in the back”.
I will second (third?) that the longer mid-week runs makes an enormous difference in making the long runs more manageable. Anything 16+ hits me like a brick if I don’t have the longer mid-week runs to support that. Although the double-digit mid week runs have turned runger into an every 3 day event, and it takes a lot of planning to fit that kind of time into a workday on a regular basis, I don’t think I could be doing the 16-20 mile long runs without those longer mid-week runs.
That's my other issue... unless I am super careful I gain on a half.... I can't imagine how much I would put on training for a full. :laugh:
Ha! I was doing ok sticking with a deficit right up until the mid-week longer Run crossed into double digits. Then It was all over. I feel like a meme. Now maintenance feels like a deficit lol.
It's getting to double digits that does for me... I'll stick to halfs!0 -
so the mid week run should be one longer run. I can't split that up into like two 5k's (one at lunch, one at night?)
ETA: currently only training for a 15k (which is actually a 5k THEN a 10k race back to back)0 -
so the mid week run should be one longer run. I can't split that up into like two 5k's (one at lunch, one at night?)
ETA: currently only training for a 15k (which is actually a 5k THEN a 10k race back to back)
A marathon is only a 20 mile warm up followed by a 10K...
If you're going to split up a 10K then do it as a 6K and a 7K, to mitigate the loss of training effect from having the break.
Your other option is to identify a plan with back to back longs at the weekend.0 -
I run 5 days a week. My long run wil never be only 20% of my total weekly volume (unless every run were exactly the same distance), and it’s very difficult to make it only 25%.
We try to keep my long run around 30% - sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. It’s a bit higher now (closer to 40%) for the last few weeks of marathon training but it’ll drop back down again after.
My body doesn’t do well with long runs when they are a significant portion of weekly mileage (there are many marathon plans that have a long run as 50-60% of the weekly total). That’s just too hard on my body and too much of a shock and I don’t recover well from that.
So my marathon plan has as much weekly mileage as I can realistically fit into my life to support the long weekend long runs while still allowing for recovery.
My normal “base” running plan is 90 min, 2x 60 min, 75 min, and 120 min. All with “ish” around those times.
I don’t know about splitting runs (I don’t do that).
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I'm still having trouble picking exactly which race to run lol, I want to make sure i'm counting the weeks right and will end up on the correct days.. So since i started Week 1 this week, would a half marathon on Septemer 23 and the marathon on December 15 be ideal? I wouldn't have to take a week off if I did the race before janurary and I think if I counted right that would be 18 weeks. Here is the plan.. https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/marathon-training/novice-1-marathon/
Just pull up the calendar on your phone and count backwards. Technically, you're dead-on timing wise for December 15th though remember that Thanksgiving week will be in there and could disrupt your training.
A half for September 23 would be a bit early for you. The plan has you run that in week 8. Better to find one in the first half of October if possible, or just run it on your own.1 -
Unfortunately the only home town marathon isn't until janurary 27 I think, which would be another month after I'd be ready. Would I risk injury if I kept repeating middle of the training program workouts for a month? Id suck it up and do the December 15 out of town race if that'd be a better option but I agree with the suggestions of doing a home town race if I can since I'll be sleeping in my own bed and eating what I'd normally have for breakfast.
I did find a half marathon for the first week of October only an hour away from me, but 2 miles are on the beach in the sand. Yikes! Any tips for that?? Would you recommend a newbie do that? Sounds like a hard race.0 -
in the monthly running challenge we have people doing high volume running every month. if you train, you should be fine.1
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I didn't understand what one of the users here said about "building my base", does that mean I should increase mileage even more if I wait for the later race? Or does that mean just getting more experience under my belt ?0
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Building a base means building up the number of miles you run regularly - which helps build your aerobic capacity and the muscles/tendons and what not.
So my “Base” is about 30 miles/week (that’s what I typically run all the time when I’m not training for a race).
Training plans generally increase mileage pretty significantly fairly quickly so the higher your base when you start the plan, the better. Plus certain kinds of training don’t really work as well if you don’t have the aerobic base to benefit from them (a lot of fancy speedwork falls into this category).
So building a base means running regularly for a period of time and slowly building the number of miles you run regularly.3 -
It also means that instead of doing a novice 1 plan, you might be able to train with novice 2 or an intermediate level plan. Having more miles allows you to train better, which will make the race go better. It's nice not to end your race with a 6 mile death march.
You could do it separately - train now for a HM in the fall, using a HM specific plan, then aim for the late January race and start a marathon plan based on your mileage when you finish that training. You may discover while doing HM training that you don't actually like doing long runs. Or you may discover that you enjoy doing HMs and prefer to do a few of those before committing to the extra time and effort that is involved in marathon training. Most likely, you'll go into your marathon training with a stronger base and some experience at doing a long race.1 -
Unfortunately the only home town marathon isn't until janurary 27 I think, which would be another month after I'd be ready. Would I risk injury if I kept repeating middle of the training program workouts for a month? Id suck it up and do the December 15 out of town race if that'd be a better option but I agree with the suggestions of doing a home town race if I can since I'll be sleeping in my own bed and eating what I'd normally have for breakfast.
I did find a half marathon for the first week of October only an hour away from me, but 2 miles are on the beach in the sand. Yikes! Any tips for that?? Would you recommend a newbie do that? Sounds like a hard race.
If you decide to delay the marathon, then just run without a training plan for now and then start the plan when ready. In the meantime, gradually build your mileage to give you a leg up on a program when you're ready to actually start.
For example, I run about 30 mpw when not training for anything specific. This gives me a lot of options when it comes to choosing a training plan for my next race since my base is sufficient to allow for me to chase really long distances (marathons or ultras), or (more likely) to chase a relatively aggressive target finish time for a half or shorter.2 -
On the weekend long runs should I be striving for a certain pace? I was disappointed to find today on my 6 mile run my miles ranged from 10min/mile all the way up to 12 . I started off with the 12 way too slow thinking I should pace myself so I didn't burn out and then picked up the pace as I kept going realizing I started too slow. I know many of the races have cut off times, I don't want to get cut!!! I also am striving to run the entire time without any breaks, during the marathon are you supposed to take any short rests besides the refill stations?0
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On the weekend long runs should I be striving for a certain pace? I was disappointed to find today on my 6 mile run my miles ranged from 10min/mile all the way up to 12 . I started off with the 12 way too slow thinking I should pace myself so I didn't burn out and then picked up the pace as I kept going realizing I started too slow. I know many of the races have cut off times, I don't want to get cut!!! I also am striving to run the entire time without any breaks, during the marathon are you supposed to take any short rests besides the refill stations?
I really wouldn't worry about pace. Run at a pace where you can sing to yourself, that's all you need to do for long runs.1 -
On the weekend long runs should I be striving for a certain pace? I was disappointed to find today on my 6 mile run my miles ranged from 10min/mile all the way up to 12 . I started off with the 12 way too slow thinking I should pace myself so I didn't burn out and then picked up the pace as I kept going realizing I started too slow. I know many of the races have cut off times, I don't want to get cut!!! I also am striving to run the entire time without any breaks, during the marathon are you supposed to take any short rests besides the refill stations?
I have only run a half marathon, and am currently beginning my training for a full. So my expertise is very limited, however I will say that a pace of 10-12 min per mile if you were able to hold that for your 6 miles already is a really great start if you are aiming to finishing without walking and not be cut off. Keeping a slow enough pace to go long distances is actually what most runners struggle with I’ve noticed. When I ran my half I had a “slow” pace beginning to end, but I finished strong and notice that I ended up passing tons of people who had started too fast (and I never had to walk and made the cut off-I ran with a 10-11 min pace). The way you adjusted and found what worked for you that kept yourself consistent but also pushing enough to do you best will be a huge advantage and the pace will increase as your miles increase so no you don’t need to focus on that too much.
You can take breaks if you want to, but it probably won’t be too necessary if you are going at the correct pace and have trained properly. The only time I took a break on the half was to pee and to fuel... I am notorious for choking on water so I like to stop when eating my Gus lol. All of this also depends on your plan for water/fuel and it also might be affected by when you train vs when your race is (ie if you train when it’s hot in FL but the race is when it’s cooling down it’ll probably be easier than the opposite)
So much of it is listening to your body. Trust yourself. People on here are constantly like “you don’t need fuel or water for this many miles” etc well I DO need it, way more often, so I eat and drink for what makes me run my best etc. use your long runs to iron out those kinks and test out different options.4 -
Doing your long runs slowly is good, especially as you are building up your miles. If your later miles are as fast or faster than the early ones, you're doing very well. One rule of thumb says that your long run pace should be about 90 seconds to 2 minutes per mile slower than your 5k pace. I have a very hard time going slow enough, so I usually end up with a positive split rather than the negative split I'm aiming for. When doing a long run or race, the miles should feel very easy, especially the first half.
When you have more experience, you may do training plans that include some miles at marathon pace. That usually is not necessary for beginners since long run pace and marathon pace are usually about the same. What you did do is good training: start very slow and easy and gradually increase the pace as you warm up, then finish strong.1 -
WickAndArtoo wrote: »So much of it is listening to your body. Trust yourself. People on here are constantly like “you don’t need fuel or water for this many miles” etc well I DO need it, way more often, so I eat and drink for what makes me run my best etc. use your long runs to iron out those kinks and test out different options.
So true.
If you listen to people on here (or anywhere on the Internet really), you’ll think you need to be able to run in sub-Arctic temps wearing nothing but a loincloth and wearing the skin of a bear you killed with your bare hands to cover your feet. Or you need to be able to run at high noon in the Sahara for 36 days straight wearing a full sweat suit with nothing more than an eye dropper of water.
These are all such individual things. Temperature tolerances, fueling & hydration needs fall on a wide spectrum and the right answer is what works for you. There are guidelines and there’s a limit to the amount of fuel your body can even process while you’re running, but still-the precise right amounts of fuel and water for you are what works for you.
I also think that a lot of this is time based more than mileage-so a slower runner (like me) will cover fewer miles in a given time. So I may be using fuel for the same amount of time as a faster runner, I just don’t cover as many miles. Among the runners I know, a 2 hour run could be anywhere from 8 to 17 miles. We could all be fueling based on running more than 120 minutes-but the number of miles will vary considerably.
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Duck_Puddle wrote: »WickAndArtoo wrote: »So much of it is listening to your body. Trust yourself. People on here are constantly like “you don’t need fuel or water for this many miles” etc well I DO need it, way more often, so I eat and drink for what makes me run my best etc. use your long runs to iron out those kinks and test out different options.
So true.
If you listen to people on here (or anywhere on the Internet really), you’ll think you need to be able to run in sub-Arctic temps wearing nothing but a loincloth and wearing the skin of a bear you killed with your bare hands to cover your feet. Or you need to be able to run at high noon in the Sahara for 36 days straight wearing a full sweat suit with nothing more than an eye dropper of water.
These are all such individual things. Temperature tolerances, fueling & hydration needs fall on a wide spectrum and the right answer is what works for you. There are guidelines and there’s a limit to the amount of fuel your body can even process while you’re running, but still-the precise right amounts of fuel and water for you are what works for you.
I also think that a lot of this is time based more than mileage-so a slower runner (like me) will cover fewer miles in a given time. So I may be using fuel for the same amount of time as a faster runner, I just don’t cover as many miles. Among the runners I know, a 2 hour run could be anywhere from 8 to 17 miles. We could all be fueling based on running more than 120 minutes-but the number of miles will vary considerably.
This just made me laugh literally out loud, I was just thinking about this while I was running the other day. But your description truly hit the giggle bone and is so true 😂0 -
Gosh i'm sorry lol your answer reminded me of another question I had...
I normally don't eat breakfast because I have to take my thyroid meds on an empty stomach, but for race day should I eat breakfast? I feel like I might need some fuel for marathon distances? My meds have a long term effect, so skipping one day wouldn't hurt me.. Or is it better to just do what you are used to doing on race day?
Thanks again for all your great advice everyone!!! So grateful
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Gosh i'm sorry lol your answer reminded me of another question I had...
I normally don't eat breakfast because I have to take my thyroid meds on an empty stomach, but for race day should I eat breakfast? I feel like I might need some fuel for marathon distances? My meds have a long term effect, so skipping one day wouldn't hurt me..
Thanks again for all your great advice everyone!!! So grateful
You'll figure that out when you decide how to best fuel your long runs.3 -
Gosh i'm sorry lol your answer reminded me of another question I had...
I normally don't eat breakfast because I have to take my thyroid meds on an empty stomach, but for race day should I eat breakfast? I feel like I might need some fuel for marathon distances? My meds have a long term effect, so skipping one day wouldn't hurt me.. Or is it better to just do what you are used to doing on race day?
Thanks again for all your great advice everyone!!! So grateful
i take thyroid meds - what i do on race days or even long run days is set my alarm to take them at 3am and then go back to sleep for a couple of hours - then i can have something before i head out on my run4
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