A marathon for little ol me?

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Replies

  • DX2JX2
    DX2JX2 Posts: 1,921 Member
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    Unfortunately the only home town marathon isn't until janurary 27 I think, which would be another month after I'd be ready. Would I risk injury if I kept repeating middle of the training program workouts for a month? Id suck it up and do the December 15 out of town race if that'd be a better option but I agree with the suggestions of doing a home town race if I can since I'll be sleeping in my own bed and eating what I'd normally have for breakfast.

    I did find a half marathon for the first week of October only an hour away from me, but 2 miles are on the beach in the sand. Yikes! Any tips for that?? Would you recommend a newbie do that? Sounds like a hard race.

    If you decide to delay the marathon, then just run without a training plan for now and then start the plan when ready. In the meantime, gradually build your mileage to give you a leg up on a program when you're ready to actually start.

    For example, I run about 30 mpw when not training for anything specific. This gives me a lot of options when it comes to choosing a training plan for my next race since my base is sufficient to allow for me to chase really long distances (marathons or ultras), or (more likely) to chase a relatively aggressive target finish time for a half or shorter.
  • FL_Hiker
    FL_Hiker Posts: 919 Member
    On the weekend long runs should I be striving for a certain pace? I was disappointed to find today on my 6 mile run my miles ranged from 10min/mile all the way up to 12 . I started off with the 12 way too slow thinking I should pace myself so I didn't burn out and then picked up the pace as I kept going realizing I started too slow. I know many of the races have cut off times, I don't want to get cut!!! I also am striving to run the entire time without any breaks, during the marathon are you supposed to take any short rests besides the refill stations?
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    edited August 2018
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    On the weekend long runs should I be striving for a certain pace? I was disappointed to find today on my 6 mile run my miles ranged from 10min/mile all the way up to 12 . I started off with the 12 way too slow thinking I should pace myself so I didn't burn out and then picked up the pace as I kept going realizing I started too slow. I know many of the races have cut off times, I don't want to get cut!!! I also am striving to run the entire time without any breaks, during the marathon are you supposed to take any short rests besides the refill stations?

    I really wouldn't worry about pace. Run at a pace where you can sing to yourself, that's all you need to do for long runs.
  • WickAndArtoo
    WickAndArtoo Posts: 773 Member
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    On the weekend long runs should I be striving for a certain pace? I was disappointed to find today on my 6 mile run my miles ranged from 10min/mile all the way up to 12 . I started off with the 12 way too slow thinking I should pace myself so I didn't burn out and then picked up the pace as I kept going realizing I started too slow. I know many of the races have cut off times, I don't want to get cut!!! I also am striving to run the entire time without any breaks, during the marathon are you supposed to take any short rests besides the refill stations?

    I have only run a half marathon, and am currently beginning my training for a full. So my expertise is very limited, however I will say that a pace of 10-12 min per mile if you were able to hold that for your 6 miles already is a really great start if you are aiming to finishing without walking and not be cut off. Keeping a slow enough pace to go long distances is actually what most runners struggle with I’ve noticed. When I ran my half I had a “slow” pace beginning to end, but I finished strong and notice that I ended up passing tons of people who had started too fast (and I never had to walk and made the cut off-I ran with a 10-11 min pace). The way you adjusted and found what worked for you that kept yourself consistent but also pushing enough to do you best will be a huge advantage and the pace will increase as your miles increase so no you don’t need to focus on that too much.

    You can take breaks if you want to, but it probably won’t be too necessary if you are going at the correct pace and have trained properly. The only time I took a break on the half was to pee and to fuel... I am notorious for choking on water so I like to stop when eating my Gus lol. All of this also depends on your plan for water/fuel and it also might be affected by when you train vs when your race is (ie if you train when it’s hot in FL but the race is when it’s cooling down it’ll probably be easier than the opposite)

    So much of it is listening to your body. Trust yourself. People on here are constantly like “you don’t need fuel or water for this many miles” etc well I DO need it, way more often, so I eat and drink for what makes me run my best etc. use your long runs to iron out those kinks and test out different options.
  • spiriteagle99
    spiriteagle99 Posts: 3,741 Member
    Doing your long runs slowly is good, especially as you are building up your miles. If your later miles are as fast or faster than the early ones, you're doing very well. One rule of thumb says that your long run pace should be about 90 seconds to 2 minutes per mile slower than your 5k pace. I have a very hard time going slow enough, so I usually end up with a positive split rather than the negative split I'm aiming for. When doing a long run or race, the miles should feel very easy, especially the first half.

    When you have more experience, you may do training plans that include some miles at marathon pace. That usually is not necessary for beginners since long run pace and marathon pace are usually about the same. What you did do is good training: start very slow and easy and gradually increase the pace as you warm up, then finish strong.
  • Duck_Puddle
    Duck_Puddle Posts: 3,237 Member
    WickAndArtoo wrote: »
    So much of it is listening to your body. Trust yourself. People on here are constantly like “you don’t need fuel or water for this many miles” etc well I DO need it, way more often, so I eat and drink for what makes me run my best etc. use your long runs to iron out those kinks and test out different options.

    So true.

    If you listen to people on here (or anywhere on the Internet really), you’ll think you need to be able to run in sub-Arctic temps wearing nothing but a loincloth and wearing the skin of a bear you killed with your bare hands to cover your feet. Or you need to be able to run at high noon in the Sahara for 36 days straight wearing a full sweat suit with nothing more than an eye dropper of water.

    These are all such individual things. Temperature tolerances, fueling & hydration needs fall on a wide spectrum and the right answer is what works for you. There are guidelines and there’s a limit to the amount of fuel your body can even process while you’re running, but still-the precise right amounts of fuel and water for you are what works for you.

    I also think that a lot of this is time based more than mileage-so a slower runner (like me) will cover fewer miles in a given time. So I may be using fuel for the same amount of time as a faster runner, I just don’t cover as many miles. Among the runners I know, a 2 hour run could be anywhere from 8 to 17 miles. We could all be fueling based on running more than 120 minutes-but the number of miles will vary considerably.
  • WickAndArtoo
    WickAndArtoo Posts: 773 Member
    Duck_Puddle wrote: »
    WickAndArtoo wrote: »
    So much of it is listening to your body. Trust yourself. People on here are constantly like “you don’t need fuel or water for this many miles” etc well I DO need it, way more often, so I eat and drink for what makes me run my best etc. use your long runs to iron out those kinks and test out different options.

    So true.

    If you listen to people on here (or anywhere on the Internet really), you’ll think you need to be able to run in sub-Arctic temps wearing nothing but a loincloth and wearing the skin of a bear you killed with your bare hands to cover your feet. Or you need to be able to run at high noon in the Sahara for 36 days straight wearing a full sweat suit with nothing more than an eye dropper of water.

    These are all such individual things. Temperature tolerances, fueling & hydration needs fall on a wide spectrum and the right answer is what works for you. There are guidelines and there’s a limit to the amount of fuel your body can even process while you’re running, but still-the precise right amounts of fuel and water for you are what works for you.

    I also think that a lot of this is time based more than mileage-so a slower runner (like me) will cover fewer miles in a given time. So I may be using fuel for the same amount of time as a faster runner, I just don’t cover as many miles. Among the runners I know, a 2 hour run could be anywhere from 8 to 17 miles. We could all be fueling based on running more than 120 minutes-but the number of miles will vary considerably.

    This just made me laugh literally out loud, I was just thinking about this while I was running the other day. But your description truly hit the giggle bone and is so true 😂
  • FL_Hiker
    FL_Hiker Posts: 919 Member
    edited August 2018
    Gosh i'm sorry lol your answer reminded me of another question I had...
    I normally don't eat breakfast because I have to take my thyroid meds on an empty stomach, but for race day should I eat breakfast? I feel like I might need some fuel for marathon distances? My meds have a long term effect, so skipping one day wouldn't hurt me.. Or is it better to just do what you are used to doing on race day?
    Thanks again for all your great advice everyone!!! So grateful :)
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    Gosh i'm sorry lol your answer reminded me of another question I had...
    I normally don't eat breakfast because I have to take my thyroid meds on an empty stomach, but for race day should I eat breakfast? I feel like I might need some fuel for marathon distances? My meds have a long term effect, so skipping one day wouldn't hurt me..
    Thanks again for all your great advice everyone!!! So grateful :)

    You'll figure that out when you decide how to best fuel your long runs.
  • deannalfisher
    deannalfisher Posts: 5,600 Member
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    Gosh i'm sorry lol your answer reminded me of another question I had...
    I normally don't eat breakfast because I have to take my thyroid meds on an empty stomach, but for race day should I eat breakfast? I feel like I might need some fuel for marathon distances? My meds have a long term effect, so skipping one day wouldn't hurt me.. Or is it better to just do what you are used to doing on race day?
    Thanks again for all your great advice everyone!!! So grateful :)

    i take thyroid meds - what i do on race days or even long run days is set my alarm to take them at 3am and then go back to sleep for a couple of hours - then i can have something before i head out on my run
  • FL_Hiker
    FL_Hiker Posts: 919 Member
    deannalfisher wrote: »
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    Gosh i'm sorry lol your answer reminded me of another question I had...
    I normally don't eat breakfast because I have to take my thyroid meds on an empty stomach, but for race day should I eat breakfast? I feel like I might need some fuel for marathon distances? My meds have a long term effect, so skipping one day wouldn't hurt me.. Or is it better to just do what you are used to doing on race day?
    Thanks again for all your great advice everyone!!! So grateful :)

    i take thyroid meds - what i do on race days or even long run days is set my alarm to take them at 3am and then go back to sleep for a couple of hours - then i can have something before i head out on my run

    That's a really good idea!! Thank you :)
  • FL_Hiker
    FL_Hiker Posts: 919 Member
    So i'm looking at fuel options.. someone mentioned stingers honey chews which sounded really good, but then I looked up the ingredients and nutrition and they look exactly like mini stroopwafels which are way cheaper. Is it just a marketing gimmick towards fitness? Or am I missing something? both around 150 cal, 10 g sugar, 20 g carbs

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004F1LNDI/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
    vs
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015JT37J2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A148ID22TT2IPE&psc=1

    Would it do me more harm than good to just eat the cookies labeled cookies? Lol
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    So i'm looking at fuel options.. someone mentioned stingers honey chews which sounded really good, but then I looked up the ingredients and nutrition and they look exactly like mini stroopwafels which are way cheaper. Is it just a marketing gimmick towards fitness? Or am I missing something? both around 150 cal, 10 g sugar, 20 g carbs

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004F1LNDI/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
    vs
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015JT37J2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A148ID22TT2IPE&psc=1

    Would it do me more harm than good to just eat the cookies labeled cookies? Lol

    I have a pal on here who eats roast potatoes... whatever works! :laugh:
  • Duck_Puddle
    Duck_Puddle Posts: 3,237 Member
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    So i'm looking at fuel options.. someone mentioned stingers honey chews which sounded really good, but then I looked up the ingredients and nutrition and they look exactly like mini stroopwafels which are way cheaper. Is it just a marketing gimmick towards fitness? Or am I missing something? both around 150 cal, 10 g sugar, 20 g carbs

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004F1LNDI/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
    vs
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015JT37J2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A148ID22TT2IPE&psc=1

    Would it do me more harm than good to just eat the cookies labeled cookies? Lol

    I have a pal on here who eats roast potatoes... whatever works! :laugh:

    Definitely whatever works. I don’t do as well with the waffles-they are a bit like gels for me (too much at once and they don’t store well half-eaten).

    I use these (in assorted flavors):

    Honey Stinger Organic Energy Chews, Cherry Blossom, 1.8 Ounce (Pack of 12) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002138O4I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qWhEBbZ82HXMQ

    They are like gummies so they transport well and are a very small dose of sugar at a time (which is what works for me).

    But-people eat all kinds of things. Whatever works for you is what works.
  • spiriteagle99
    spiriteagle99 Posts: 3,741 Member
    That's what the long runs in training are for - you get to try various options and see what works and what doesn't. I tried Honey Stingers and felt like I had grit stuck in my throat. Some people love them.

    FWIW - I take my thyroid meds at night. I also don't think it would hurt to take your meds when you get up on race day and then eat. They may be less effective with food (especially if you eat food with minerals that interfere with the medicine) but it won't make you sick.
  • WickAndArtoo
    WickAndArtoo Posts: 773 Member
    My favorites are the Gu gels in the espresso, chocolate, caramel, and vanilla flavors... I see that they have a chai flavor I haven’t tried yet and I’m sure I’ll love that one too 😂 then if I want something fruity I like the gummies/blocks (I like both the Gus and the cliff blocks equally). The gels are easier to eat on the go than the blocks in my opinion.

    I prefer a little caffeine with my energy so I love the options with the fancy gels/blocks and I also get heartburn easily with solid foods, but if you find something cheaper that works for you do it! Some people like to eat dates or bananas etc. Try stuff out and choose based on what you want/need/can afford/what doesn’t upset your tummy!
  • Purplebunnysarah
    Purplebunnysarah Posts: 3,252 Member
    spiriteagle99 wrote: »
    That's what the long runs in training are for - you get to try various options and see what works and what doesn't. I tried Honey Stingers and felt like I had grit stuck in my throat. Some people love them.

    FWIW - I take my thyroid meds at night. I also don't think it would hurt to take your meds when you get up on race day and then eat. They may be less effective with food (especially if you eat food with minerals that interfere with the medicine) but it won't make you sick.

    I only space my Synthroid out 30 minutes from eating so tomorrow morning before my half I will get up between 5-5:30 and eat around 6 AM - 1 or 2 slices of toast with peanut butter and a cup of coffee. I'll be bringing some Clif Blocks with me on the run. I tried using honey stinger gel on a run once and it made me gag.

    I should probably go to sleep now...
  • WilmaValley
    WilmaValley Posts: 1,092 Member
    Such great advice, will use many of ideas too!!!!
  • FL_Hiker
    FL_Hiker Posts: 919 Member
    sarahthes wrote: »
    spiriteagle99 wrote: »
    That's what the long runs in training are for - you get to try various options and see what works and what doesn't. I tried Honey Stingers and felt like I had grit stuck in my throat. Some people love them.

    FWIW - I take my thyroid meds at night. I also don't think it would hurt to take your meds when you get up on race day and then eat. They may be less effective with food (especially if you eat food with minerals that interfere with the medicine) but it won't make you sick.

    I only space my Synthroid out 30 minutes from eating so tomorrow morning before my half I will get up between 5-5:30 and eat around 6 AM - 1 or 2 slices of toast with peanut butter and a cup of coffee. I'll be bringing some Clif Blocks with me on the run. I tried using honey stinger gel on a run once and it made me gag.

    I should probably go to sleep now...

    Good luck!!! Althought you're probably running right now lol 😁
  • FL_Hiker
    FL_Hiker Posts: 919 Member
    As far as electrolytes go would it be okay if I just took some salt packets (like you get at fast food places)? I love salt, so no problem eating it straight up. How many of those would be necessary ? Or is it better to carry some sort of electrolyte gels or something?
  • WickAndArtoo
    WickAndArtoo Posts: 773 Member
    edited August 2018
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    As far as electrolytes go would it be okay if I just took some salt packets (like you get at fast food places)? I love salt, so no problem eating it straight up. How many of those would be necessary ? Or is it better to carry some sort of electrolyte gels or something?

    You lose other electrolytes than salt, you can make your own for cheaper options if you feel that you need an electrolyte supplement. When I was running in FL heat I used ultima, I now use Nuun if I need it (although that’s super rare since I am in a much cooler climate and have gotten more experienced-ie runnign is easier).

    But basically if you DO need a supp, salt isn’t going to be all you need to keep balanced.
  • FL_Hiker
    FL_Hiker Posts: 919 Member
    WickAndArtoo wrote: »
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    As far as electrolytes go would it be okay if I just took some salt packets (like you get at fast food places)? I love salt, so no problem eating it straight up. How many of those would be necessary ? Or is it better to carry some sort of electrolyte gels or something?

    You lose other electrolytes than salt, you can make your own for cheaper options if you feel that you need an electrolyte supplement. When I was running in FL heat I used ultima, I now use Nuun if I need it (although that’s super rare since I am in a much cooler climate and have gotten more experienced-ie runnign is easier).

    But basically if you DO need a supp, salt isn’t going to be all you need to keep balanced.

    Ah that makes sense. I'm looking a the Nuun... do you mix them in a drink? If the race provides gatoraide or similar would that be sufficient instead? This is so much more complicated than I thought lol.
  • WickAndArtoo
    WickAndArtoo Posts: 773 Member
    edited August 2018
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    WickAndArtoo wrote: »
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    As far as electrolytes go would it be okay if I just took some salt packets (like you get at fast food places)? I love salt, so no problem eating it straight up. How many of those would be necessary ? Or is it better to carry some sort of electrolyte gels or something?

    You lose other electrolytes than salt, you can make your own for cheaper options if you feel that you need an electrolyte supplement. When I was running in FL heat I used ultima, I now use Nuun if I need it (although that’s super rare since I am in a much cooler climate and have gotten more experienced-ie runnign is easier).

    But basically if you DO need a supp, salt isn’t going to be all you need to keep balanced.

    Ah that makes sense. I'm looking a the Nuun... do you mix them in a drink? If the race provides gatoraide or similar would that be sufficient instead? This is so much more complicated than I thought lol.

    Nuun is mixed into a drink, I drink mine before the run so I don't have to mess with it or put it into my water I carry. I’m not sure how Gatorade works since I have never drank that. But also depending on your fuel/body/temp of race day you my not need to worry about the electrolytes as much as you are. Do you already know the specific race you will be running? Sometimes they will say what they use at the hydration stations on the websites.

    Edit: for a marathon I would be using my hydration vest with plain water then bring smaller flasks with the Nuun premixed in if my other fuel didn’t satisfy my electrolyte needs. Sorry I forgot you were doing a full not half. In my opinion it is NOT smart to rely on the hydration stations for this situation because you should be prepared to fill your body’s needs when you body needs it, otherwise you could risk heat exhaustion etc. IMO find something that works for you and a way to carry it. Ultima is nice bc it’s a powder and can be mixed on the go, Nuun tablets take a long time to dissolve.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    WickAndArtoo wrote: »
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    As far as electrolytes go would it be okay if I just took some salt packets (like you get at fast food places)? I love salt, so no problem eating it straight up. How many of those would be necessary ? Or is it better to carry some sort of electrolyte gels or something?

    You lose other electrolytes than salt, you can make your own for cheaper options if you feel that you need an electrolyte supplement. When I was running in FL heat I used ultima, I now use Nuun if I need it (although that’s super rare since I am in a much cooler climate and have gotten more experienced-ie runnign is easier).

    But basically if you DO need a supp, salt isn’t going to be all you need to keep balanced.

    Ah that makes sense. I'm looking a the Nuun... do you mix them in a drink? If the race provides gatoraide or similar would that be sufficient instead? This is so much more complicated than I thought lol.

    I think you're overthinking it at the moment. Just go and train, all the nutrition questions are eight weeks away from needing to be thought about.
  • Purplebunnysarah
    Purplebunnysarah Posts: 3,252 Member
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    WickAndArtoo wrote: »
    FL_Hiker wrote: »
    As far as electrolytes go would it be okay if I just took some salt packets (like you get at fast food places)? I love salt, so no problem eating it straight up. How many of those would be necessary ? Or is it better to carry some sort of electrolyte gels or something?

    You lose other electrolytes than salt, you can make your own for cheaper options if you feel that you need an electrolyte supplement. When I was running in FL heat I used ultima, I now use Nuun if I need it (although that’s super rare since I am in a much cooler climate and have gotten more experienced-ie runnign is easier).

    But basically if you DO need a supp, salt isn’t going to be all you need to keep balanced.

    Ah that makes sense. I'm looking a the Nuun... do you mix them in a drink? If the race provides gatoraide or similar would that be sufficient instead? This is so much more complicated than I thought lol.

    Its okay to use what the race provides, but trybitbout and train with it ahead of time. Race day is a terrible time to find out that tropical punch Gatorade gives you runner's trots. Also, as a previous poster says, you will want to carry your own regardless so you can drink on your own schedule.
  • mbaker566
    mbaker566 Posts: 11,233 Member
    i prefer chews over gu-s but i'm learning to deal with them.
    i use honeystingers most often now. the waffles are a good prerace thing. rather than futz with it during the race.
    how i do for a half, and i plan on just expanding for the full. ymmv

    prerace waffle or peanut buttery bar 15 min before.
    i have a water bottle of water
    i drink gatorade at every station.
    i eat a fuel item at mile 4 and then every three miles which is about 36 min give or take.

    you need to fuel before you think you need it. hydration is important.

    it's not super complicated. if you have a running store nearby (preferably local people) they will help you out
  • DX2JX2
    DX2JX2 Posts: 1,921 Member
    MeanderingMammal wrote: »

    I think you're overthinking it at the moment. Just go and train, all the nutrition questions are eight weeks away from needing to be thought about.

    This. You only need to worry about building your conditioning for now. You have months of long runs ahead of you to figure everything else out.

    Electrolytes - most people are fine with the liquid provided by the organizers. Really elite racers use custom blends, but that's probably overkill for the 99.9% of us that don't run 150 minute marathons. That said, if you already have experience with a different product in the Florida heat then go for it.

    Nutrition - this one you'll have to play with since everybody is different. I just started using GUs and seem to be doing OK with them but I'm lucky in that I don't usually have a sensitive stomach. I know many people who prefer to carry bananas or dried fruit instead though over long distances I prefer the convenience of a pre-packaged gel/chew.

    Yes, it might sound silly to some to learn how to 'not drink' during a run but this preference is more a matter of convenience than anything else. Not having to worry about carrying water on anything but your weekly long runs is really nice and it also means that you'll generally be fine to use only with the water provided by the organizers on race day. Basically, it's one less thing to worry about (if you want proof that some people do find this to be a complication, do a quick search on threads that ask about the best strategies to manage water during a run).
  • spiriteagle99
    spiriteagle99 Posts: 3,741 Member
    If your race has water every mile, you won't need to carry any. If it's every 2-3, you might want to bring your own, especially if it's hot. When I've carried water, I didn't need it. The only race where I needed it was in Arizona in February and it was hotter than usual that year. Nuun tabs are just dropped into the water bottle and they dissolve. I take Gatorade at every other water stop if the water is every two miles.
  • mbaker566
    mbaker566 Posts: 11,233 Member
    i do like brooks

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