The psychology of needing to eat until stuffed - a discussion
Replies
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fitoverfortymom wrote: »What is hard when you tell yourself to stop eating and still feel like you can eat way more...that is hard to get used to. But I figure I am a work in progress and IF has taught me some semblance of control, I am not 100% perfect but way better than pre IF. I also have learned that being hungry is okay, I will not die from starvation.
I tried IF, but I wake up too hungry and my attempts at keeping the hunger at bay just gives me headaches and a caffeine/coffee tummy. Hubby will eat a small-ish breakfast (250 calories) and then he can go all the way to dinner without eating anything. Nope. Not me. Too hangry.
I still clean my plate and meal plan, so that I get to eat all of whatever it is I've planned for the day. I have to eat ALL the food. Knowing that about myself made the process so much easier.
Man, I wish I could be like that...eat a small breakfast and that sustains me all day...nope an hour later I would be hungry again sigh:( I always hear about these people who forget to eat and it is like wtf...I don't think I have ever forgotten to eat!!4 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
I find it interesting too, so I may very well be rambling, but...kommodevaran wrote: »
I think there is some circular reasoning going on, "food will fix this, but the problem is overwhelming, so I need lots of food". Because I'm not really able to short circuit that argument, and truly convince myself that "hunger is not the problem, so food is not the solution". There is also a massive exposure to food cues - food is everywhere, and food is made into so many shapes and colors that resemble everyday non-food objects, it's hard to not be reminded of the taste and mouthfeel. I don't overeat massively/often anymore, but I have urges often because my rational mind is in conflict with my arational mind. To keep this conflict from escalating, it's important that I'm well fed and rested and manage stress.kommodevaran wrote: »I want to expand on my reply. I don't usually think of myself as an emotional eater, but of course I'm too. And I have learned to associate food with many things - situations, emotions, times and places, smell, sound, textures, shapes and colors. And learned to expect many things from food, many things that food can't do - food has no other purposes besides "taste good" and "keep me alive" - which certainly isn't unimportant. But there is a need for balance, and I would need a lot of food to accomplish what my subconscious mind belives it should do for me!
Care to go further with that?
This is interesting. Whenever I feel physically "off" in any way - a headache, congested, fatigued, sore, feverish, lack of focus - my first instinct is "Maybe I'm hungry! Let's eat something." probably because I do often get a headache when I'm legit hungry. And if it doesn't work right away, I'll often just keep eating. Not necessarily to the point of being uncomfortable, but certainly more food than I would have an actual appetite for. I don't do this for emotional situations, like I don't eat when I'm depressed or scared, but I do for physical issues. I guess a form of emotional eating at least!
We generally have very safe and easy and predictable lives nowadays, and we're not "designed" for that - so up pops "bucket lists" and "buy these shoes this fall" and "things to see when you're in Botswana" - the media is now telling us what we should be "hunting" for. We also have alarm systems that go off regularly. Most of the times, it's a false alarm. I can wake up in the middle of the night, possibly just by random sound, so when I search, I find no threats, I could just go back to sleep - but then my mind wanders instead - did I make a fool of myself today, is that a toothache, could I have cancer? A quiet evening, my mind is at ease, I don't want anything, I don't need anything, but I'm so used to think that I am or should be "after" something, anything, that the first time I felt that, I wondered if I was depressed!? And my go-to for "something missing", that's right, that's food: "OK, I can always find something to eat!"
I find this really interesting... the whole idea that we aren't evolving fast enough to suit our current environment.
Oh now you're really chasing rabbits down holes. I've been delving into evolutionary biology more and came to the same conclusion. Our entire society has been based upon a majority not having enough and now the Western societies have all our needs satisfied we have an almost instinctive nature to create chaos. This impacts our lives in a multitude of ways - eating, health, relationships, politics, etc. We don't believe we "need" the rigidity of societal constructs, but we have not learned to act independently yet.
As in nearly everything each individual thrives in a specific range of stress. Too much or too little we panic and start acting irrationally. There are a few experiments being conducted now, but the data has only begun to trickle in. I'm suspecting that purpose and responsibility are primary unseen drivers, but we have yet to design and experiment to capture these illusive factors.
To (hopefully) keep the derailing potential to a minimum... do you have any good suggested reading? This whole concept fascinates me.
It's primarily a combination of the scholarship of Bret Weinstein, Jordan Peterson, and Jonathan Haidt.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513804000820?via=ihub
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnins.2011.00074/full
Jonathan Haidt made a very interesting comment in a video recently where he observed that as humans move away from highly structure organized religions, these become replaced with less organized structures. This helps explain why speaking to elimination dieters becomes remarkably similar to speaking with cultists. Makes sense as we are creatures of habit - removal of one habit requires replacement with another.
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fitoverfortymom wrote: »What is hard when you tell yourself to stop eating and still feel like you can eat way more...that is hard to get used to. But I figure I am a work in progress and IF has taught me some semblance of control, I am not 100% perfect but way better than pre IF. I also have learned that being hungry is okay, I will not die from starvation.
I tried IF, but I wake up too hungry and my attempts at keeping the hunger at bay just gives me headaches and a caffeine/coffee tummy. Hubby will eat a small-ish breakfast (250 calories) and then he can go all the way to dinner without eating anything. Nope. Not me. Too hangry.
I still clean my plate and meal plan, so that I get to eat all of whatever it is I've planned for the day. I have to eat ALL the food. Knowing that about myself made the process so much easier.
Man, I wish I could be like that...eat a small breakfast and that sustains me all day...nope an hour later I would be hungry again sigh:( I always hear about these people who forget to eat and it is like wtf...I don't think I have ever forgotten to eat!!
I never in my life have forgotten to eat.
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kommodevaran wrote: »
I'm using the term hyper-palatable foods less and less, but I do have the idea in the back of my head that food should taste good, but not too good - it helps. I have found that I need to work for my food, I want to be hungry enough to bother with preparation and chewing. My appetite is actually a good guide - I know that when I'm ready for just about any food, I'm hungry, whereas not really in mood for anything but candy or chips, but strongly so, I'm not hungry, I just want "something"; and as I am well nourished and warm and safe, figuring out what that "something" is, is hard. Most days I eat normal, ordinary foods for most or all meals. I deliberately reserve treat foods for special occasions, which doesn't have to be more special than "Saturday" - finding the balance here is so important and quite difficult; when I grew up, treats were "bad", according to my mother, who never said so explicitly, but implied that treats would ruin my health, and absolute abstaining was commendable.kshama2001 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Maybe you are eating hyperpalatable foods?
They literally figured out that really sweet foods will taste too sweet after a few bites, and really salty items taste too salty after a short while.
So they found a point where the fat, salt and sugar ratio was just so that you keep eating them past your satiation point (think potato chips and cookies), what food scientists call the "bliss point." That's why you have sugar and salt in things you wouldn't think would be needed in either (salt in candy, sugar in tomato sauce).
If you notice you only gorge on certain TYPES of foods, that might be the issue.
For me, an example is potatoes. I can eat one baked potato and not want any more. I don't need to use portion control on baked potatoes. But I've had to intentionally portion control chips and fries, until I naturally eat less of these than before.
Worse is if I homecook scallopped potatoes (no cream, just thin sliced stewed potatoes and seasonings), it's like a bottomless appetite for it. I can go three potatoes and still want more. My scallopped potatoes recipe has a bliss point that allows me to eat far larger quanties than I would otherwise. Portion control doesn't "work." I just end up eating as much as is available.
Best wishes on figuring out the source of your eating past fullness and overcoming it!
Is that from "Salt, Sugar, Fat"? Fascinating book!
When I eat 400-500 calories of chicken, broccoli, and potato, or Thai Beef salad, I am full, but not overstuffed, and have no urge to eat more.
When I have hyper-palatable foods like pizza, I want to eat and eat and eat. It's a real challenge to not. Having a large salad with pizza helps.
Clearly, we all differ: This (the bolded) made exclamation points stand out all around my head.
It's almost diametrically opposite to the strategy that makes it easiest for me to stick to a reduced calorie intake. I look at it as having a calorie budget and priorizing the very most tasty and nutritious and filling foods. Eating OK but mildly boring things would not work at all for me.
My weight gain (and staying obese) was more about eating what presented itself, and was more desirable to eat than bypass. The easiest way to trim calories was to drop a lot of "not too tasty" foods, ones with the lowest hedonic cost to bypass.
Maybe this is different for me because the whole conventional concept of "hyperpalatable" foods - usually meant to describe highly-processed non-nutrient-dense foods - doesn't resonate for me. To my taste buds, most (not all) so-called hyperpalatable foods don't even taste good.
Even my "eating until stuffed" tendencies that I'm working to reduce are eating pretty nutritious foods, predominantly; it's mainly that they're either more calorie-dense ones, or in unnecessarily large proportions, or both.7 -
I think we're more different in what words we use, than in how we approach these things. I thought I had it covered with the term "normal, ordinary food", but maybe that too needs an explanation. When I say that food should taste good, but not too good, I mean that I will no more have a diet consisting of nothing but chocolate, candy, cake and potato chips. I do, however, base my meals around fresh fruit, raw vegs, bread with tasty/full fat spreads/fillings, whole milk, meat and potatoes, rice, pasta, fish and seafood - anything I like, and I like most foods now. I prepare everything with just enough salt, sugar and fat to make it taste just right. I eat real butter, fry in oil, eat the skin on the chicken and the fat on the pork chop, have desserts after plain vegetable soups, I make cheesecake and enjoy the hell out of it; when I shop, I buy whatever looks delicious, when I eat out, I eat anything that is offered that I want, but I also eat plenty of vegetables, fruit and whole grains, I stick mainly to meals, and I don't eat too much over time.kommodevaran wrote: »
I'm using the term hyper-palatable foods less and less, but I do have the idea in the back of my head that food should taste good, but not too good - it helps. I have found that I need to work for my food, I want to be hungry enough to bother with preparation and chewing. My appetite is actually a good guide - I know that when I'm ready for just about any food, I'm hungry, whereas not really in mood for anything but candy or chips, but strongly so, I'm not hungry, I just want "something"; and as I am well nourished and warm and safe, figuring out what that "something" is, is hard. Most days I eat normal, ordinary foods for most or all meals. I deliberately reserve treat foods for special occasions, which doesn't have to be more special than "Saturday" - finding the balance here is so important and quite difficult; when I grew up, treats were "bad", according to my mother, who never said so explicitly, but implied that treats would ruin my health, and absolute abstaining was commendable.kshama2001 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Maybe you are eating hyperpalatable foods?
They literally figured out that really sweet foods will taste too sweet after a few bites, and really salty items taste too salty after a short while.
So they found a point where the fat, salt and sugar ratio was just so that you keep eating them past your satiation point (think potato chips and cookies), what food scientists call the "bliss point." That's why you have sugar and salt in things you wouldn't think would be needed in either (salt in candy, sugar in tomato sauce).
If you notice you only gorge on certain TYPES of foods, that might be the issue.
For me, an example is potatoes. I can eat one baked potato and not want any more. I don't need to use portion control on baked potatoes. But I've had to intentionally portion control chips and fries, until I naturally eat less of these than before.
Worse is if I homecook scallopped potatoes (no cream, just thin sliced stewed potatoes and seasonings), it's like a bottomless appetite for it. I can go three potatoes and still want more. My scallopped potatoes recipe has a bliss point that allows me to eat far larger quanties than I would otherwise. Portion control doesn't "work." I just end up eating as much as is available.
Best wishes on figuring out the source of your eating past fullness and overcoming it!
Is that from "Salt, Sugar, Fat"? Fascinating book!
When I eat 400-500 calories of chicken, broccoli, and potato, or Thai Beef salad, I am full, but not overstuffed, and have no urge to eat more.
When I have hyper-palatable foods like pizza, I want to eat and eat and eat. It's a real challenge to not. Having a large salad with pizza helps.
Clearly, we all differ: This (the bolded) made exclamation points stand out all around my head.
It's almost diametrically opposite to the strategy that makes it easiest for me to stick to a reduced calorie intake. I look at it as having a calorie budget and priorizing the very most tasty and nutritious and filling foods. Eating OK but mildly boring things would not work at all for me.
My weight gain (and staying obese) was more about eating what presented itself, and was more desirable to eat than bypass. The easiest way to trim calories was to drop a lot of "not too tasty" foods, ones with the lowest hedonic cost to bypass.
Maybe this is different for me because the whole conventional concept of "hyperpalatable" foods - usually meant to describe highly-processed non-nutrient-dense foods - doesn't resonate for me. To my taste buds, most (not all) so-called hyperpalatable foods don't even taste good.
Even my "eating until stuffed" tendencies that I'm working to reduce are eating pretty nutritious foods, predominantly; it's mainly that they're either more calorie-dense ones, or in unnecessarily large proportions, or both.
Before, I would try to control my weight by eating more vegs, whole grains, low fat/sugar/salt. It was nutritionally okay I guess, but so boring, and I felt restricted, but without being aware of it, so I tried and tried to stick to it, convinced it was the right way. I couldn't stick to it for more than a few months, and then I reverted to the "nothing but chocolate, candy, cake and potato chips and eating all day and night after trying to not eat for as long as I could" diet. My weight went up and down, more up than down, with this lifestyle. It wasn't until I got sick of the stressful lifestyle, not only of being overweight/obese, that I looked for an alternative. And that alternative is the middle ground that many of us think about MFP as.8 -
A really interesting thread, think it needs to be read a couple of times for all the information to sink in, thank you all for sharing.3
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You only started this thread a couple of days ago, but have you had an opportunity to see if all of this brainstorming has had any affect?
For me, so far:
I have been struggling on the weekends, because a month or so ago, I decided that I wanted to stay within the same calorie limit I was during the week. I kept failing, and then feeling all the usual failure feels.
So, here's the deal.
1.) I tell myself that I am only looking to have a 500 calorie/day deficit, for a 1 lb/week loss.
2.) I consistently strive to burn more than the needed deficit each day. Sometimes burning enough that the total deficit for the week would equal 3-4 lbs.
3.) I refuse to (plan to) allow myself to eat the extra deficit I burned during the week on the weekends.
4.) I consistently fail on the weekend to stay within the planned calorie limit, yet I don't go over enough to blow the 500 calorie/day deficit, for a 1 lb/week loss. (see #1)
Prior to this great plan, I used my extra calories burned during the week to splurge on the weekends and enjoyed a comfortable and steady weight loss.
I don't remember why I decided that I needed to be stricter on the weekends, but if any of you saw my previous post on this thread, can we say, "CONTROL" & "PERFECTIONIST" and "CREATE A CRISIS"?
So, after reading this thread, and what I wrote, I thought about it, asked myself some questions, came up with some home truths, and decided I was once again going to allow myself to eat any extra calories I burned during the week on the weekend.
Only time will tell, but at least the failure guilt and shame will be gone.5 -
I’ve used the psychology of using the ‘reward’ of having the tasty meal as leftovers later to help me stop eating when I’m full. Especially when out at restaurants. If you stop early then you get a tasty treat later!1
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I probably am not addressing this fully, but I do feel a need to feel full (but not stuffed) when I eat. I think mine came from that I was born in a different country & altho I don't remember, we used to stand in long lines to get bread. As an adult I always had this lingering fear of going hungry & couldn't stand to see food wasted but I've goten so much better over the years & even gotten picky of what I eat. I have settled my eating habits over the 2 years I've been doing mfp to having a hearty brunch & dinner with lite snacks in between3
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As I've tried to be more cognisant of my feelings/wants/"needs"/etc surrounding this issue, I think I have a greater interest (I'm not sure the right word here) in the anticipation of eating an entire pizza plus a burger and fries than I do in actually eating all of that.
I've done a bit of reading and that does seem to be a thing (indications of it being a thing, no proof that I've come across, FWIW)... that some people get more stimulus/response from the anticipation than from the actual eating.
Just putting that out there as I think it's interesting and relevant to the discussion, not because I'm necessarily looking for anyone to confirm or refute.6 -
As I've tried to be more cognisant of my feelings/wants/"needs"/etc surrounding this issue, I think I have a greater interest (I'm not sure the right word here) in the anticipation of eating an entire pizza plus a burger and fries than I do in actually eating all of that.
I've done a bit of reading and that does seem to be a thing (indications of it being a thing, no proof that I've come across, FWIW)... that some people get more stimulus/response from the anticipation than from the actual eating.
Just putting that out there as I think it's interesting and relevant to the discussion, not because I'm necessarily looking for anyone to confirm or refute.
Oh there is tremendous insight and truth in this statement and it is true about all aspects in life. Humans tend to love the anticipation of acts more than the actual act. This is reality stirring our imagination/fantasy.4 -
I've been reading along. I don't think anyone has mentioned the research of Dr. Stephan Guyenet, PhD. He is a neuroscientist who studies obesity and has many incredibly interesting videos on youtube which may shed some light on this topic. At about 10 or 11 minutes he gets into the idea of: if people don't want to gain weight or be "unhealthy", why then do they over eat. His focus is "brain regulation of body fatness" among other things. Pretty darn interesting stuff which we can ultimately learn to control if we are aware. It may be helpful for some to take an hour or so to listen to this interview (and there are many more):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9fhq-uwh18
ETA: at ~19:40 he starts talking about why you could be "stuffed" after a big dinner but still eat a huge amount of dessert not being the least bit hungry.0 -
I've been reading along. I don't think anyone has mentioned the research of Dr. Stephan Guyenet, PhD. He is a neuroscientist who studies obesity and has many incredibly interesting videos on youtube which may shed some light on this topic. At about 10 or 11 minutes he gets into the idea of: if people don't want to gain weight or be "unhealthy", why then do they over eat. His focus is "brain regulation of body fatness" among other things. Pretty darn interesting stuff which we can ultimately learn to control if we are aware. It may be helpful for some to take an hour or so to listen to this interview (and there are many more):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9fhq-uwh18
ETA: at ~19:40 he starts talking about why you could be "stuffed" after a big dinner but still eat a huge amount of dessert not being the least bit hungry.
I've got one of his books... it's heavy reading, but good info. I should try to get past page 75 at some point...2 -
I have not been a 400 pound person.. or a binge eater, or night eater.. all these things mystify me. Yet, it is just as much of a mystery to me as to why let myself get overweight by 20 or 30 pounds. I bet they feel the same way.2
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As I've tried to be more cognisant of my feelings/wants/"needs"/etc surrounding this issue, I think I have a greater interest (I'm not sure the right word here) in the anticipation of eating an entire pizza plus a burger and fries than I do in actually eating all of that.
I've done a bit of reading and that does seem to be a thing (indications of it being a thing, no proof that I've come across, FWIW)... that some people get more stimulus/response from the anticipation than from the actual eating.
Just putting that out there as I think it's interesting and relevant to the discussion, not because I'm necessarily looking for anyone to confirm or refute.
Oh there is tremendous insight and truth in this statement and it is true about all aspects in life. Humans tend to love the anticipation of acts more than the actual act. This is reality stirring our imagination/fantasy.
And the opposite is also true: the fear of a dreaded event is often worse than the event itself.5 -
First of all, a correction on the dopamine response. Dopamine is released BEFORE the reward. It’s an anticipation hormone. Maybe it revs us up to be enterprising or innovative when tracking down our next meal.
Has anyone discussed the power of touch? I’ve been learning this as a way to calm loved ones with dementia. The touch or feeling has to be just right of course. A condescending pat on the head does not provide the same comfort, say, as gently picking up a hand (their hand is palm upwards). There are weighted blankets also to provide comfort.
A full stomach may provide just the right enough pressure to signal comfort.
I also find if I eat too fast I don’t linger long enough on the delightful taste sensations. I’ll then go for seconds to get a repeat hit on those feelings I missed the first go around.10 -
When one eats (or over eats) until the point they are stuffed what is happening in your brain is similar to what happens when someone takes drugs. Chemicals/neurotransmitters are released just like when you take a drug. It creates a high. This is why food is addictive as well and once you start eating it can be difficult to stop. It is related to your mental state as well just as a drug addict.0
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I knew a few people here have struggled with this
I also know it's probably not an easy/simply/clean discussion... not if X then do Y.
But I also know there are some smart, thoughtful, experienced people here.
I also know that there is a HUGE wealth of experiences on the board. So I put this out there...
Does anyone have any insight on the psychology of "needing" to eat until stuffed? Not just until you are full or no longer hungry... but stuffed, maybe uncomfortably so. I've struggled with emotional eating in the past (and probably will continue to), but I've made significant progress on identifying the whys and creating new habits/responses. However, I continue to struggle with the need to eat until I'm stuffed. From what I've read here, many would suggest there are signs of an ED.
I do think it's a mental/psychological thing, rather than something physical, as it seems to be rooted more in something like instant gratification or satisfaction rather than anything bigger picture like calorie or nutrient needs. But aside from that, I'm not sure where to start looking/thinking about things.
So...
- thoughts?
- questions?
TIA.
I think weight and eating is a very physical, genetic thing. I honestly don't think it is as psychological as people make it out to be. I struggled with my weight all my life and my son does too. My sister is very thin on the verge of underweight and her children are too. I never wanted to eat until stuffed but I do as an adult like to be full and have that sensation. I think some people get that sensation more easily than others and others just don't care. It is possible to get beyond your genetics but it takes a lot of work and a complete, permanent lifestyle change or surgery! lol2 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
I'm using the term hyper-palatable foods less and less, but I do have the idea in the back of my head that food should taste good, but not too good - it helps. I have found that I need to work for my food, I want to be hungry enough to bother with preparation and chewing. My appetite is actually a good guide - I know that when I'm ready for just about any food, I'm hungry, whereas not really in mood for anything but candy or chips, but strongly so, I'm not hungry, I just want "something"; and as I am well nourished and warm and safe, figuring out what that "something" is, is hard. Most days I eat normal, ordinary foods for most or all meals. I deliberately reserve treat foods for special occasions, which doesn't have to be more special than "Saturday" - finding the balance here is so important and quite difficult; when I grew up, treats were "bad", according to my mother, who never said so explicitly, but implied that treats would ruin my health, and absolute abstaining was commendable.kshama2001 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Maybe you are eating hyperpalatable foods?
They literally figured out that really sweet foods will taste too sweet after a few bites, and really salty items taste too salty after a short while.
So they found a point where the fat, salt and sugar ratio was just so that you keep eating them past your satiation point (think potato chips and cookies), what food scientists call the "bliss point." That's why you have sugar and salt in things you wouldn't think would be needed in either (salt in candy, sugar in tomato sauce).
If you notice you only gorge on certain TYPES of foods, that might be the issue.
For me, an example is potatoes. I can eat one baked potato and not want any more. I don't need to use portion control on baked potatoes. But I've had to intentionally portion control chips and fries, until I naturally eat less of these than before.
Worse is if I homecook scallopped potatoes (no cream, just thin sliced stewed potatoes and seasonings), it's like a bottomless appetite for it. I can go three potatoes and still want more. My scallopped potatoes recipe has a bliss point that allows me to eat far larger quanties than I would otherwise. Portion control doesn't "work." I just end up eating as much as is available.
Best wishes on figuring out the source of your eating past fullness and overcoming it!
Is that from "Salt, Sugar, Fat"? Fascinating book!
When I eat 400-500 calories of chicken, broccoli, and potato, or Thai Beef salad, I am full, but not overstuffed, and have no urge to eat more.
When I have hyper-palatable foods like pizza, I want to eat and eat and eat. It's a real challenge to not. Having a large salad with pizza helps.
This continues to stick with me, and is something I need to be more mindful of moving forward in order to see how much merit there is for me. I believe that when I'm going well and in a good groove with my eating, I'm eating a lot of foods I like, but very little that I *really* like, if that makes sense. Maybe that's my version of moderation.
I also wonder more generally...
I frequently see people on the boards say they eat whatever they want as long as the numbers (cals and/or macros) work out, and that if they want xyz food, they find a way to fit it in. I get that, I've been able to do that in the past at times, too, so I'm not arguing that. However, I do wonder if any of those same people have chosen to avoid/significantly restrict certain foods because of what could be a slippery slope.
Yes, it's kind of semantics, but word choice can reflect attitude... and context and nuance can be important.
I consider myself one of those people that says I can eat whatever I want as long as it fits macros/calories and that I make whatever I want to eat fit these calories/macros. When I make that statement though I do always feel I should note that what I "want to eat" about 80% of the time is meats, veggies, fruits etc.
There are however a few select foods that I do significantly still restrict due to the slippery slope you mentioned. Peanut butter is one of these foods for me. Though I still consume it and make it fit into calories/macros I never keep it in the house. For whatever reason I can have peanut butter outside of my home and consume a perfectly reasonable portion and feel satisfied. The second I keep it in the house I could eat half a jar in a sitting before stopping. I find this phenomenon particularly interesting because the few foods I seem to have trouble moderating aren't even my "favorite" foods or foods that I initially crave to eat, they just seem to be foods I have trouble stopping eating once i've started. I've always attributed it to a greater dopamine response to those foods but I've always wondered if there was another reason.4 -
I have the same problem with peanut butter, and I've read the same thing over and over on this site - so it is something about peanut butter.3
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WillingtoLose1001984 wrote: »I knew a few people here have struggled with this
I also know it's probably not an easy/simply/clean discussion... not if X then do Y.
But I also know there are some smart, thoughtful, experienced people here.
I also know that there is a HUGE wealth of experiences on the board. So I put this out there...
Does anyone have any insight on the psychology of "needing" to eat until stuffed? Not just until you are full or no longer hungry... but stuffed, maybe uncomfortably so. I've struggled with emotional eating in the past (and probably will continue to), but I've made significant progress on identifying the whys and creating new habits/responses. However, I continue to struggle with the need to eat until I'm stuffed. From what I've read here, many would suggest there are signs of an ED.
I do think it's a mental/psychological thing, rather than something physical, as it seems to be rooted more in something like instant gratification or satisfaction rather than anything bigger picture like calorie or nutrient needs. But aside from that, I'm not sure where to start looking/thinking about things.
So...
- thoughts?
- questions?
TIA.
I think weight and eating is a very physical, genetic thing. I honestly don't think it is as psychological as people make it out to be. I struggled with my weight all my life and my son does too. My sister is very thin on the verge of underweight and her children are too. I never wanted to eat until stuffed but I do as an adult like to be full and have that sensation. I think some people get that sensation more easily than others and others just don't care. It is possible to get beyond your genetics but it takes a lot of work and a complete, permanent lifestyle change or surgery! lol
I find your observation on this interesting as I have a similar situation within my own family, I have always taken it the exact opposite way. Both you and your sister share the same genetics yet she and her children are thin and you and you son have struggled with weight which would be indicative to me that it is more of a "nurture" issue (more psychological) than a "nature issue" (genetics).
As I said my family is very much the same way as yours. My mother always struggled with weight and myself and my three siblings were very overweight whereas her sister and all of her children were a perfectly normal weight. I always assumed it was because of how we were raised ex. "eat all of your food before you leave the table."5 -
cmriverside wrote: »I have the same problem with peanut butter, and I've read the same thing over and over on this site - so it is something about peanut butter.
Sugar, fat, and salt! Lol it's soo creamy good...5 -
I appreciate this discussion. I have struggled with borderline binge eating, eating until I am stuffed, etc. most of my life. I have made progress but still laps and am still uncovering all the reasons for the behavior.
At the very least, I have identified triggers that contribute to a binge and habits that mitigate stuffing myself. Look forward to reading more comments.1 -
psychod787 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I have the same problem with peanut butter, and I've read the same thing over and over on this site - so it is something about peanut butter.
Sugar, fat, and salt! Lol it's soo creamy good...
No sugar or salt in the peanut butter I buy. Straight-up peanuts only. I watch it being ground.
There can be a connection to needing fats, but that's not my issue either. I am always over on fats - without the peanut butter binge.
I don't want to drag this thread off-topic, but peanut butter (or even just peanuts) is a problem for me as a food. Deliciousness might be it, but I don't binge on yogurt and it's creamy fatty delicious, too.
I think it's psychological (full circle!) and just a throwback to my childhood as a comfort food.4 -
cmriverside wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I have the same problem with peanut butter, and I've read the same thing over and over on this site - so it is something about peanut butter.
Sugar, fat, and salt! Lol it's soo creamy good...
No sugar or salt in the peanut butter I buy. Straight-up peanuts only. I watch it being ground.
There can be a connection to needing fats, but that's not my issue either. I am always over on fats - without the peanut butter binge.
I don't want to drag this thread off-topic, but peanut butter (or even just peanuts) is a problem for me as a food. Deliciousness might be it, but I don't binge on yogurt and it's creamy fatty delicious, too.
I think it's psychological (full circle!) and just a throwback to my childhood as a comfort food.
It happens to me whether its All Natural saltless PB (just peanuts) or some kind like Skippy with additives. I also eat a high fat diet (40% fat) so I don't think its a fat issue either. I didn't even really eat it as a kid either which makes it even more strange to me.
Whyyyyyy PB whyyyyyy????
Okay back on topic....... 4 -
I'm not going to read this whole thread, so I don't know if anyone already said this...
But I don't think there are as many emotional reasons as people seem to think.
Speaking for myself at least, I eat till stuffed because I was blessed/cursed/born-with a BIG 'OLE APPETITE.
Since I was a happy, normal, loved little child. I always finished my plate (I would lick it clean for crying out loud), and if my little brother wasn't finishing his portion, I would have it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
...until I noticed this wasn't cute, lol, then I tried to avoid it. But I could still do it, you know? I just chose not too to avoid da looks.
I just have an unfortunately big appetite. It's a trait. Nothing led me to this.
And throughout this journey, I occasionally fall back and binge my *kitten* off... and I feel like being an alcoholic or drug addict must be very similar
. The way they react to and handle those substances differs from their peers.
So, in a way, I feel lucky that at least the thing that I lose control of is food and not more harmful stuff... but I also feel unlucky, because the people that surround me weren't born with this messed up love of eating.
Well, anyway, that's me. I'm sure others do have emotional triggers that cause their overeating.4 -
Keladelphia wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »
I'm using the term hyper-palatable foods less and less, but I do have the idea in the back of my head that food should taste good, but not too good - it helps. I have found that I need to work for my food, I want to be hungry enough to bother with preparation and chewing. My appetite is actually a good guide - I know that when I'm ready for just about any food, I'm hungry, whereas not really in mood for anything but candy or chips, but strongly so, I'm not hungry, I just want "something"; and as I am well nourished and warm and safe, figuring out what that "something" is, is hard. Most days I eat normal, ordinary foods for most or all meals. I deliberately reserve treat foods for special occasions, which doesn't have to be more special than "Saturday" - finding the balance here is so important and quite difficult; when I grew up, treats were "bad", according to my mother, who never said so explicitly, but implied that treats would ruin my health, and absolute abstaining was commendable.kshama2001 wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Maybe you are eating hyperpalatable foods?
They literally figured out that really sweet foods will taste too sweet after a few bites, and really salty items taste too salty after a short while.
So they found a point where the fat, salt and sugar ratio was just so that you keep eating them past your satiation point (think potato chips and cookies), what food scientists call the "bliss point." That's why you have sugar and salt in things you wouldn't think would be needed in either (salt in candy, sugar in tomato sauce).
If you notice you only gorge on certain TYPES of foods, that might be the issue.
For me, an example is potatoes. I can eat one baked potato and not want any more. I don't need to use portion control on baked potatoes. But I've had to intentionally portion control chips and fries, until I naturally eat less of these than before.
Worse is if I homecook scallopped potatoes (no cream, just thin sliced stewed potatoes and seasonings), it's like a bottomless appetite for it. I can go three potatoes and still want more. My scallopped potatoes recipe has a bliss point that allows me to eat far larger quanties than I would otherwise. Portion control doesn't "work." I just end up eating as much as is available.
Best wishes on figuring out the source of your eating past fullness and overcoming it!
Is that from "Salt, Sugar, Fat"? Fascinating book!
When I eat 400-500 calories of chicken, broccoli, and potato, or Thai Beef salad, I am full, but not overstuffed, and have no urge to eat more.
When I have hyper-palatable foods like pizza, I want to eat and eat and eat. It's a real challenge to not. Having a large salad with pizza helps.
This continues to stick with me, and is something I need to be more mindful of moving forward in order to see how much merit there is for me. I believe that when I'm going well and in a good groove with my eating, I'm eating a lot of foods I like, but very little that I *really* like, if that makes sense. Maybe that's my version of moderation.
I also wonder more generally...
I frequently see people on the boards say they eat whatever they want as long as the numbers (cals and/or macros) work out, and that if they want xyz food, they find a way to fit it in. I get that, I've been able to do that in the past at times, too, so I'm not arguing that. However, I do wonder if any of those same people have chosen to avoid/significantly restrict certain foods because of what could be a slippery slope.
Yes, it's kind of semantics, but word choice can reflect attitude... and context and nuance can be important.
I consider myself one of those people that says I can eat whatever I want as long as it fits macros/calories and that I make whatever I want to eat fit these calories/macros. When I make that statement though I do always feel I should note that what I "want to eat" about 80% of the time is meats, veggies, fruits etc.
There are however a few select foods that I do significantly still restrict due to the slippery slope you mentioned. Peanut butter is one of these foods for me. Though I still consume it and make it fit into calories/macros I never keep it in the house. For whatever reason I can have peanut butter outside of my home and consume a perfectly reasonable portion and feel satisfied. The second I keep it in the house I could eat half a jar in a sitting before stopping. I find this phenomenon particularly interesting because the few foods I seem to have trouble moderating aren't even my "favorite" foods or foods that I initially crave to eat, they just seem to be foods I have trouble stopping eating once i've started. I've always attributed it to a greater dopamine response to those foods but I've always wondered if there was another reason.
Thank you for posting that... I appreciate the perspective.0 -
There is 2 things for me funions and code red mt dew.. I have cut both. I can eat crispy onions and some cherry soda, but combine the two above... non-stop eat still stuffed.2
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Crunchy/salty is my deliciousness trigger. Especially potato chips. Not satiating at all and I could down a bag in one sitting, so my caution radar goes off whenever I'm eating them. I have to portion them out and watch my behavior closely.2
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I don't know if this has been brought up yet- but I considered myself to be a binge eater for many years. I could eat so much food and always seemed to be hungry, but I never related to other binge eaters because there wasn't an emotional reason...I just really, really love food! That being said, I was pre-diabetic and was told by my doctor that my blood sugars being out of control were likely the reason. Sure enough, once my blood sugars were stable (controlled solely by diet), the binge eating totally stopped. Since then, I just don't have the urge to eat a lot anymore- I still stuff myself on holidays, special occasions...but the urge to eat a lot on a normal day is just totally gone. So, it is not a bad idea to have your blood sugars checked out if you tend to eat large amounts of food but don't feel like there is some emotional issue making you eat.5
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