Is Keto Worth it?
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Oh boy, theres too many questions. Just show me your before and after pics, I mean, just to back up a little of what your knowledge and experience has produced!
By the way, I like Eric Helms, I just dont get those diagrams. And tell me what you think the mix of results is, instead of saying " Let's pretend for just a second that your numbers here are accurate (which I doubt)".
Has anyone really trained here or is this just a (mostly) diet and exercise forum. Im honestly wondering.
The pyramids discuss the prioritization of importance... energy balance > macros > micros > timing > supplementation. Lower parts of the pyramid are the "foundation" of diet or training.
And yes, many of us have trained and/or continue to train. If you want to see that, go in the bodybuilding section and you will see several threads. Some compete, others don't.9 -
Are our bodies "made to run on carbs". I think protein. Maybe a long time ago we ate berries, and hunted for meat, probably quite fatty, which constituted a large part of the diet back then. Im assuming though. Im on low carb. Protein in the form of eggs and meat is high on my list every day.
It's pretty well established that protein is not a good source of energy. Fat and carbs are preferred sources.6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »I see there are some differences of opinions on the value of mega data studies and n=1 studies.
Metlife sales life insurance let us say and they research the factors that go into determining our longevity. They can be quite sure of when on average we will expire within one standard deviation. What they do not know is when any one of their clients will die.
We can look at studies showing how Keto can work very well for many people on average.
In the end the insurance types are no happy just knowing our average life expectancy but want to know our n=1 life expectancy. As a matter of fact they price life insurance based on detailed health examples or our n=1 exam.
If one need control values in benchmarking their n=1 one can just grab it from the mega data studies.
Broad based research can give us a hint of the WOE's that may work well for us. n=1 results are were we get the specific knowledge as to the best way for us to eat.
Posts like this convince me that we need a diary entry for word salad.
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OMG, so much misinformation going around.
1. As someone rightly pointed out, our brains primarily run on glucose exclusively. The only other thing they can run on is ketones. But like I said, that is unnatural and a fail-safe mechanism to protect the brain during starvation. Ketones, unlike glucose, end up producing confusion and lethargy in the brain.
2. If we ate berries in the past, we also ate the meat of hunted animals. In fact, today we have more carb loaded and highly processed food floating in the market than before the industrial era. So if someone up in the comments was trying to make a point that somehow our bodies have evolved to run on more protein, it makes no sense. There is more carb-rich food in many diets than ever before. Next, your thinking does not determine what the body functions on. Protein is used for muscle building, immunity and for hormones etc. That is building up of the body. However, for fuelling or running the body, that is products that are broken down to provide energy, the order is carbs > fat > other sources > protein as per the preference of the body. Though it is true that all 4 kinds can be burnt at any point but the amount is more often in the same ratio as mentioned above in a person with zero calorie deficit. When in a calorie deficit, fat takes over as the primary fuel source as carbs are not always available in the blood from food in that situation. Just because bodybuilders have been drilled to chug protein does not mean that our bodies have started running on protein somehow.
3. And when we say fat is used or protein is used for energy, it doesn't mean fat is burnt directly. All 3 components are interconvertible in our body. Fat is first converted to carbs with ketones and water as by-products. The carbs and ketones are then used for various processes. Same happens with proteins. So yes, our bodies and minds (irrespective of your unfounded beliefs) still primarily run on carbs unless there is something drastically changed like a keto diet, diabetic ketosis etc. Even then, they are using fat to make carbs and ketones as by-products are also used because the body is wise enough to prevent wastage in a calorie deficit.5 -
Thanks for posting this!! I am new to keto and found this information helpful. I am also looking for keto friends.. Please add me if your following a keto diet.. 😀1
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Thanks for posting this!! I am new to keto and found this information helpful. I am also looking for keto friends.. Please add me if your following a keto diet.. 😀
Welcome to the Keto Way Of Eating.
4 years ago at the the age of 63 with serious health issues I cut out food with added sugar and or any forms of any grains on a hunch for pain management. It worked in the first 30 days and over the past 4 years the MD is no longer treating me for any issues. She said I will see you next year in the meantime keep doing what you have been doing for the past several years. Last year she was concerned about my high Vitamin D3 because I am taking 50,000 units daily. She said since all of my labs we OK she was okay with my 155+ ng levels since science has not determined what level is too high. I don't promote mega dosing of Any thing. Having an earned OD degree most MD's simle at my n=1 experiments since they know they have no accountable due to my healtcare training.
My body runs better on ketones than glucose for some reason.
Best of continued success.15 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »[Having an earned OD degree
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority#Appeal_to_non-authorities
An OD degree does not make you an authority on anything except optometry. When that degree was earned over 30 years ago and you never practiced or even completed residency, even less so.
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Demander2015 wrote: »Okay, first you need to know how the keto diet originated. In the olden days (1920's and such), there were no drugs to treat epilepsy. So the physicians used to prescribe Keto diet (yes, the exact same one you are talking about) as a treatment. The ketone bodies that are generated actually cause changes in the brain chemistry to slow it down. Because many of the subjects also lost weight while on this diet, the diet became a fad.
Now, while for people with epilepsy, that is a good thing (because their brain impulses are hyperactive and keto brings them in a normal range) but for normal people, it will slow down the normal functioning of the brain. Consider what would happen if people who don't have diabetes started taking insulin. (Though keto doesn't cause as immediate and as life-threatening changes as insulin overload).That is also a big part of why people feel lethargic. And the effects of keto diet on the brain chemistry of normal people has not been well studied. It is also not known if there are any permanent effects.
There is another state in which ketosis is produced - diabetes. Because of the lack of insulin, people with diabetes are unable to process carbs. This is why the body switches to fat metabolism and produces ketones. But the high amount of ketones produces severe stomach cramps, vomiting, delirium and even coma. Now, in a keto diet that would not be possible because you are eating some carbs and you will have natural cravings and desire to eat and not eat certain foods. The same 100% no carb only fat environment is hard to replicate. However, you can have milder versions of side effects like stomach pains, confusion, lethargy, nausea, diarrhoea etc. But this will give you an idea that a body running only on fat isn't such a good thing.
I am not trying to scare you but I believe you should have all the info.
Moreover, Keto claims that its main benefit is to make your body burn fat instead of carbs. It also cites some study that found that ketones are more efficiently used by the body than carbs for producing energy. However, our bodies are ingenious machines. If our bodies have been made to run on carbs, it is for a reason. Mere efficiency is not the criteria. The side effects (as mentioned above) also need to be taken into account.
Sometimes people say that we are born into ketosis so, I don't know, it is automatically better? When we are born we have fetal form of blood and muscle tissue. But the same kind in adults causes diseases and slows down movement.
Moreover, there are some systems in our body that run on carbs - like the anaerobic system which cannot work on ketones.
Another thing, theoretically you could eat only gummy bears, maintain calories and lose weight. However, you wouldn't do that right? Then why go overboard with fat and protein-laden foods. Many of the keto foods are extremely unhealthy because of the way they are made and because they are very high in fat (especially unhealthy fats).
Also, if you don't count calories on the keto diet, you can easily go overboard as keto foods are very very very high in calories. But if you count calories, that would mean that you would be starving all day long, especially since dense calorie-packed foods will have very small portions for that calorie allowance. This mostly why keto followers struggle.
Moreover, you have to see what is your priority. Do you just want to lose weight or do you want to be healthy? These are different things. Because being healthy means having a good cardio-resp strength, a good heart, no fatty liver, no cholesterol in your arteries, strong bones and muscles, strong ligaments (need protein and calcium) , a good mental health (exercise and healthy foods help a lot with that), proper vitamins for healthy blood, functioning of the body, proper vitamins for skin regeneration so that the flaps of skin are absorbed once you lose weight and much much more. Keto will not give you that. In fact, keto works in the opposite direction of many of these things.
Also, it becomes very very hard for some people to exercise while on keto. Some can manage, many can't. And exercise But it is up to you to decide.
Moreover, diets never work. Whenever you stop them, the weight comes back. If you want to lose weight and keep it off you should never follow a diet. Instead, you should make permanent changes to your eating habits and menu that will stay with you for the rest of your life. These habits have to be sustainable in the long term and compatible with your routine. If you think that keto is something you can follow until the day you die, go for it. But many people are not able to do that.
Keto will also deprive you of many essential vitamins and minerals found in different kinds of foods. While you can take supplements for some vitamins, there are so many micronutrients and antioxidants that man has not yet been able to extract and formulate into capsules. Which is why it is always better to take them from a natural source, instead of from supplements. But then again, it depends on your priorities.
While many people swear by keto because they could maintain it and they got results, there are also many people who swear by the fact that a moderate, mindful, permanent food habit modification by including all kinds of food in moderation produces the same results. The basic formula is calorie in < calorie out. For a difference of every 3500 cals, you lose a pound. You could do that on a gummy bear diet, a purple diet, a keto diet or a well-rounded diet. The key is to follow the diet that you can stick with for the rest of your life. Eg. I have a sweet tooth. If I deprive myself sweets for very long, I end up bingeing. The forbidden fruit is so much sweeter. Therefore, even though I would like protein to be in a little higher percentage, I still add something sweet every day to my menu while maintaining the calories because I cannot deprive myself of sweets till the day I die.
And as for the fat burning benefit of keto goes, let me break it down. Any kind of food habit where you are eating less than you are burning is taking energy from fat, period. While it is true that the body can burn muscle, it tends to burn fat. Moreover, you can add weight training and HIIT and good protein to maintain muscle tissue.
There are also many ways you can drive up the fat burn - eg HIIT training without energy drinks and in a calorie deficit, fasting cardio etc. These are much easier to follow than a keto diet and have less damaging effects o your body.
Ultimately, I would say that consistency is key. If you cannot stick with a food and exercise routine forever, don't start it. Every time you start it and fail, it reinforces a negative attitude towards fitness and weight management. You feel like a failure and that feeling, in turn, causes you to fail and the loop continues. So do it once, do right and do it forever. Pick the thing that you can follow forever and stick with it. Don't care if everyone around you is snuffing honey or lemons or whatever to lose weight. If keto works, go with that, if you think you can stick with paleo, go with that, if you think well rounded moderate diet is it, go with that. And start making the changes slowly. You wouldn't run 10 miles, do 100 pushups, 500 squats and lift weight for hours on the first day you decide to exercise. You would start slow - maybe 30 mins of light to moderate cardio, 10 pushups and 10 squats and maybe 10 mins of weightlifting and then adjust it as you go. So should be your food modification.
I hope this long ramble helped.
people with diabetes CAN process carbs so that is bunk, how much carbs they can eat vary person to person. many here have had diabetes or have diabetes and eat carbs and are managing their insulin just fine eating carbs. I think you are confusing keto with ketoacidosis which are two different things. the lethargy and other symptoms that come from keto happen because you deplete your body of water,glycogen and electrolytes as well which is why you get the keto flu. which is why its suggested to up the sodium,magnesium and potassium when doing keto to prevent that. and for most it works.
as for people who arent diabetic and inject insulin there are people like that and not sure if they still do it but many body builders use to inject insulin to build muscle.
as for counting calories on keto you are not going to starve and deprive yourself. how is eating say 1500 or more calories(depending on person yet again) starving? and eating too many by not counting means youre eating too many calories and will gain which is said of any way of eating.exercise is also NOT needed for weight loss, but it helps how your body looks and it is good for your heart,muscles,etc.
as for fat burning your body burns fat in a deficit whether keto or not and your body will also burn carbs(glycogen) for energy. it will burn muscle if it doesnt have enough calories,fasting cardio or any other exercise fasting hasnt proven to burn any more fat than fasted exertcise. keto was done for epileptics but but it has been proven useful for those with type 2,pcos,insulin resistance and some other health issues are now being studied to see how keto works for that health issue.
Im not diabetic and will say keto nearly did me in due to another health issue I have. But thats my experience.2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Thanks for posting this!! I am new to keto and found this information helpful. I am also looking for keto friends.. Please add me if your following a keto diet.. 😀
Welcome to the Keto Way Of Eating.
4 years ago at the the age of 63 with serious health issues I cut out food with added sugar and or any forms of any grains on a hunch for pain management. It worked in the first 30 days and over the past 4 years the MD is no longer treating me for any issues. She said I will see you next year in the meantime keep doing what you have been doing for the past several years. Last year she was concerned about my high Vitamin D3 because I am taking 50,000 units daily. She said since all of my labs we OK she was okay with my 155+ ng levels since science has not determined what level is too high. I don't promote mega dosing of Any thing. Having an earned OD degree most MD's simle at my n=1 experiments since they know they have no accountable due to my healtcare training.
My body runs better on ketones than glucose for some reason.
Best of continued success.
Yes, there is a clear upper limit of normal for VitD levels; most labs have >-100ng/mL as the upper limit of normal. Here are some potential complications you & your MD seem to be ignoring:
"Serious Reactions
hypervitaminosis D
hypercalcemia
hypercalciuria
nephrotoxicity
hyperphosphatemia
Common Reactions
hypercalcemia
Cr elevated
hypercalciuria
nausea
vomiting
anorexia
polyuria
anemia
weakness
renal impairment"
(Epocrates). Not the wisest decision in combination with ketosis (kidney stones)
Given your level of "expertise", I nominate you King of Woos. Vit D dose you are taking is pretty insane (hint: I'm not joking about this..: l ). Just bolded some of your wording to emphasize your ignorance of science15 -
I dont understand why there is such negativity towards this WOE3
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ArmyMedic23PFA wrote: »I dont understand why there is such negativity towards this WOE
It's the OTT claims about it that take the heat, not the diet itself.8 -
ArmyMedic23PFA wrote: »I dont understand why there is such negativity towards this WOE
There’s not negativity toward the WOE. There is frustration at the rampant wild claims of health benefits, many of which are not scientifically validated, as well as claims that this WOE is advantageous for weight loss - even to the point that some posters claim it supercedes CICO.
It can be a fine WOE if a person enjoys it and if they find it satiating. It can have health benefits or those that need to restrict carbs. That’s it. There’s nothing magical about it.8 -
ArmyMedic23PFA wrote: »I dont understand why there is such negativity towards this WOE
It is not keto that the negativity is aimed at, it is the idea that so many are spouting that it can cure all kinds of diseases and that you lose more weight on it. As a diet or a weight loss plan, it is no better or worse than any other. It will work for some and it will not work for others.
Also, can we stop with the WOE stuff?10 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Thanks for posting this!! I am new to keto and found this information helpful. I am also looking for keto friends.. Please add me if your following a keto diet.. 😀
Welcome to the Keto Way Of Eating.
4 years ago at the the age of 63 with serious health issues I cut out food with added sugar and or any forms of any grains on a hunch for pain management. It worked in the first 30 days and over the past 4 years the MD is no longer treating me for any issues. She said I will see you next year in the meantime keep doing what you have been doing for the past several years. Last year she was concerned about my high Vitamin D3 because I am taking 50,000 units daily. She said since all of my labs we OK she was okay with my 155+ ng levels since science has not determined what level is too high. I don't promote mega dosing of Any thing. Having an earned OD degree most MD's simle at my n=1 experiments since they know they have no accountable due to my healtcare training.
My body runs better on ketones than glucose for some reason.
Best of continued success.
50,000 IU a day? thats supposed to be weekly, I know my daughter is on it. I was on that much for awhile and then my dr tested my levels and told me that I can do 5,000 IU 2-3 times a week.I do that and my levels are normal and stay stable. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-side-effects#section35 -
ArmyMedic23PFA wrote: »I dont understand why there is such negativity towards this WOE
It is not keto that the negativity is aimed at, it is the idea that so many are spouting that it can cure all kinds of diseases and that you lose more weight on it. As a diet or a weight loss plan, it is no better or worse than any other. It will work for some and it will not work for others.
Also, can we stop with the WOE stuff?
Seriously - every time some says "WOE" or "way of eating" especially when talking about keto, I have an urge to eat an Oreo.6 -
Can someone please tell me it is??0
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mojorowe88 wrote: »Can someone please tell me it is??
It can be depending on if it works for you to help you stay in a calorie deficit or have a medical condition that keto can help improve.
I lost my first 120 pounds using keto and it worked great for keeping my appetite under control but I knew it wouldn't be a life-long way for me to eat. I transitioned to a diet of moderation in everything and have mostly kept the weight off (minus a few bumps along the way).
I would do your research and see if it sounds like something you think will help you lose weight. If you find it isn't something you can sustain, then you can always try something else.7 -
Are our bodies "made to run on carbs". I think protein. Maybe a long time ago we ate berries, and hunted for meat, probably quite fatty, which constituted a large part of the diet back then. Im assuming though. Im on low carb. Protein in the form of eggs and meat is high on my list every day.
Statements like this don't lend credibility to your other posts. Are you sure the body is super complex and science doesn't have all the answers or is it rather you don't understand even the most basic science of how our bodies work? This post looks like the latter.
I cant believe how words are manipulated on this site. Of course the body uses carbs first. Explosive energy, some endurance. But there have been past times, and there are still places where carbs are not as available as meat. The body needs protein. It makes up almost 20% of your body weight. The body can use protein for energy, but it cannot convert carbs to protein. Protein rules. But we need fat too of course. Red meat is a good supply. Yes the body is super complex.8 -
May be I was too generic the other day using "fats" as the term for brain fuel, "fatty acids" in those fats create keytones. what the heck! After all the brain is 60% fats. It had been a very long, very hard day.3
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May be I was too generic the other day using "fats" as the term for brain fuel, "fatty acids" in those fats create keytones. what the heck! After all the brain is 60% fats. It had been a very long, very hard day.
Still, ketones are not the preferred source of fuel for the brain. They're the last resort to prevent starvation, and even then, they're just used to "top up" whatever glucose the brain could get through synthesis. Fatty acids can't cross to the brain.
Skeletal muscle preferentially likes fatty acids at rest unless burst movement is required. Maybe that's what you meant?
In either case, ketones are not the preferred source of fuel although the body adapts and utilizes whatever is available.3
This discussion has been closed.
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