Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Keto diet = good or bad
Replies
-
Yes! I found myself limiting vegetables too, and frankly, grew really tired of greens. And cleaning/prepping them.3
-
maureenkhilde wrote: »Keto. My personal opinion (not fact)? It's a stupid fad diet. How is staying so low on carbs that you end up skipping out on vegetables a good thing? If you want weight loss CICO is ultimately what can get you results.
I personally do a low carb diet. But you do not seem to know much about a diet you are bashing. On Keto there are quite a few Vegetables that you can eat on a regular basis. Really the ones that are off limits are starchy vegetables. And they are not on low carb diets either.
While you can have a limited variety, its low quantity. At least I thought so0 -
maureenkhilde wrote: »Keto. My personal opinion (not fact)? It's a stupid fad diet. How is staying so low on carbs that you end up skipping out on vegetables a good thing? If you want weight loss CICO is ultimately what can get you results.
I personally do a low carb diet. But you do not seem to know much about a diet you are bashing. On Keto there are quite a few Vegetables that you can eat on a regular basis. Really the ones that are off limits are starchy vegetables. And they are not on low carb diets either.
While you can have a limited variety, its low quantity. At least I thought so
I do tend to wonder how many people doing keto were vegetable fiends like some of us before undertaking it. And this isn't a jab at them, it's just thinking out loud. I know I eat a ridiculous amount of vegetables and fruits in a day. Most of the veggies I eat aren't even necessarily ones that aren't allowed on keto. My favorites are brussels, mushrooms, asparagus, collards, cauliflower, broccoli, zucchini, and spaghetti squash. The only favorites of mine not keto-friendly are butternut squash and potatoes. Tomatoes? Well, I like them in quantity. I could have had one or two on keto, but opted for more greens.
Anyway, when I was doing keto, the portions of these veggies I got to eat was quite small compared to what I'm used to.
I remember when we had that 10 servings a day challenge, I didn't have to make a change to my daily diet to make the requirement.7 -
I would guess, and this is only a guess, that most people get the majority of their carbs from highly processed and refined carbs like sugar, bread, crackers, junk food (chips, candy and soda), muffins, noodles, cereal, and sauces. (And I know that some of that has fats too, but I'm pointing out processed carbs here.). That would include those people switching to keto.
I don't think a diet where carbs are mainly processed or refined is unusual, especially beyond the MFP bubble.9 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »maureenkhilde wrote: »Keto. My personal opinion (not fact)? It's a stupid fad diet. How is staying so low on carbs that you end up skipping out on vegetables a good thing? If you want weight loss CICO is ultimately what can get you results.
I personally do a low carb diet. But you do not seem to know much about a diet you are bashing. On Keto there are quite a few Vegetables that you can eat on a regular basis. Really the ones that are off limits are starchy vegetables. And they are not on low carb diets either.
While you can have a limited variety, its low quantity. At least I thought so
I do tend to wonder how many people doing keto were vegetable fiends like some of us before undertaking it. And this isn't a jab at them, it's just thinking out loud. I know I eat a ridiculous amount of vegetables and fruits in a day. Most of the veggies I eat aren't even necessarily ones that aren't allowed on keto. My favorites are brussels, mushrooms, asparagus, collards, cauliflower, broccoli, zucchini, and spaghetti squash. The only favorites of mine not keto-friendly are butternut squash and potatoes. Tomatoes? Well, I like them in quantity. I could have had one or two on keto, but opted for more greens.
Anyway, when I was doing keto, the portions of these veggies I got to eat was quite small compared to what I'm used to.
I remember when we had that 10 servings a day challenge, I didn't have to make a change to my daily diet to make the requirement.
That is how i felt. I couldn't even get adequate fiber because i wanted a variety of veggies and couldn't get that on keto. And having a lb of spinach is not my ideal of good veggies.6 -
I respect the vegetable issue, but it’s not a problem for me on strict keto. I’m vegetarian as well, so often the base of my meal contains vegetables (cauliflower hash browns for example) and I pair that with sides of griddled or steamed greens.
Rocket or pea shoots are also incredibly low carb so big salads with lots of healthy fats from nuts and avocado are perfectly viable.
Just experiment with what works for you and don’t worry if you go over 20g per day as some people can eat more and remain in ketosis.3 -
svlofthouse wrote: »I respect the vegetable issue, but it’s not a problem for me on strict keto. I’m vegetarian as well, so often the base of my meal contains vegetables (cauliflower hash browns for example) and I pair that with sides of griddled or steamed greens.
Rocket or pea shoots are also incredibly low carb so big salads with lots of healthy fats from nuts and avocado are perfectly viable.
Just experiment with what works for you and don’t worry if you go over 20g per day as some people can eat more and remain in ketosis.
How many vegetable/fruit servings do you typically get daily, then? (I usually ballpark a serving as 80 grams.)
This is not a set-up: I'm also a vegetarian, but am one who'd feel challenged to eat as I prefer at low carb, let alone keto. I was kind of in tune with PPs saying that possibly people had different preferences about veggie servings, with the low carb/keto folks perhaps preferring a lower amount daily than others of us do. With your comment, I'm wondering what the comparison really is.
For my own part, it's a rare day when I eat fewer than 500g of veggies/fruit (in the traditional definition, things like greens, tomatoes, the brassicas, squash both summer & winter, eggplant, apples, oranges, etc. - not counting things that are vegetable sourced but more processed (examples: tofu, chili paste) or plant foods that are usually categorized outside the fruit & veggie terms (like nuts, seeds)). Often, I'm over 800g veggies/fruits, and occasionally over 1500g.
Do you have an idea what you're usually eating, on a grams/servings basis, as a comparison?3 -
@AnnPT77 I would say I eat two servings with a typical breakfast. That could be spinach and celery. Then lunch would usually have leeks, tomatoes or spinach baked into it whether it’s baked egg or tart. That would have a serving of salad or kale crisps on the side. Supper might be a salad bowl with 100g or rocket, 100g of pea shoots, an avocado, two eggs, nuts, butter and coconut oil.
Those veggies work for me feeling great and getting enough fibre!
A serving size would usually be about 100g because then the carbs are easier to calculate. I like routine so I’m more then happy to stick to a small range of veggies.
If I have any carbs left over as I build up my day, the natural response is to add in a few more veggies that I don’t eat as many of like red pepper or courgette as a treat!3 -
svlofthouse wrote: »@AnnPT77 I would say I eat two servings with a typical breakfast. That could be spinach and celery. Then lunch would usually have leeks, tomatoes or spinach baked into it whether it’s baked egg or tart. That would have a serving of salad or kale crisps on the side. Supper might be a salad bowl with 100g or rocket, 100g of pea shoots, an avocado, two eggs, nuts, butter and coconut oil.
Those veggies work for me feeling great and getting enough fibre!
A serving size would usually be about 100g because then the carbs are easier to calculate. I like routine so I’m more then happy to stick to a small range of veggies.
If I have any carbs left over as I build up my day, the natural response is to add in a few more veggies that I don’t eat as many of like red pepper or courgette as a treat!
That does sound like a sensible level!
While I think low carb or keto wouldn't be a good choice for me, as it would cut out or reduce many of my favorite veggies and (maybe especially) fruits, and I don't seem to have a medical or appetite-management reason to do that, I'm very much of a "you do you, I'll do me" mindset about eating patterns. I like to see everyone getting well-rounded nutrition, and you seem to be doing that.
I'd say I usually come in around 200g carbs daily +/-, most of it from fruit, veg, a little grain (oatmeal), the odd pita or tortilla, milk, and sometimes beer or wine. I eat a lot of legumes among my protein foods, which accounts for a fair amount of carbs. I eat eggs, but only rarely (just a tastes thing), not as often as you seem to.2 -
Yeah I’m certainly not evangelical - I just do what’s best to control my sleep disorder and PCOS3
-
A nutritionist I really like (she's an RD and has an MS in Nutrition Biochemistry and Epidemiology, and she blogs and tweets under the name Nutrition Wonk), recently started a podcast where she and a partner (who is a PhD in Molecular Nutrition) discuss various popular diets and then try the diets for 2 weeks. They are currently doing paleo (I saw her tweets on it, which led me to the podcast), but the first one is keto, and I know another is DASH.
Introduction to the podcast, which is on iTunes, among other places: https://www.thenutritionwonk.com/single-post/2018/10/24/Introducing-N1-A-New-Nutrition-and-Diet-Podcast
I listened to the first episode on keto and thought it was excellent. (The second is where they discuss experiences on keto, the first is a discussion of current research on it, how it works, the various studies.)
Highly recommended!
If anyone else listens and likes the podcast, I'd be interested in starting a thread to react to the different episodes and the discussion, but in the meantime anyone interested in keto (for any reason), might want to check it out. I'll say it's very fair-minded/even-handed.
Relevant twitter:
https://twitter.com/NutritionWonk?lang=en
https://twitter.com/kcklatt?lang=en
I think this has the potential to be up there with Sigma Nutrition, which is probably my current favorite nutrition/fitness podcast. (I also really like FitCast, but that's not as nutrition focused.)
Thanks for this recommendation! They are very well versed in their subject matter and very engaging to listen to. I listened to both the keto podcasts. They did a great job of covering the claims, the science and then their individual experiences while doing it. Interesting that they both found it unsustainable and struggled with energy levels for exercise.
I just listened to the first two episodes. I liked that there was a lot of science, but it was accessible to me, a layperson. I liked that they mentioned a lot of studies and critiqued and complimented them.2 -
A nutritionist I really like (she's an RD and has an MS in Nutrition Biochemistry and Epidemiology, and she blogs and tweets under the name Nutrition Wonk), recently started a podcast where she and a partner (who is a PhD in Molecular Nutrition) discuss various popular diets and then try the diets for 2 weeks. They are currently doing paleo (I saw her tweets on it, which led me to the podcast), but the first one is keto, and I know another is DASH.
Introduction to the podcast, which is on iTunes, among other places: https://www.thenutritionwonk.com/single-post/2018/10/24/Introducing-N1-A-New-Nutrition-and-Diet-Podcast
I listened to the first episode on keto and thought it was excellent. (The second is where they discuss experiences on keto, the first is a discussion of current research on it, how it works, the various studies.)
Highly recommended!
If anyone else listens and likes the podcast, I'd be interested in starting a thread to react to the different episodes and the discussion, but in the meantime anyone interested in keto (for any reason), might want to check it out. I'll say it's very fair-minded/even-handed.
Relevant twitter:
https://twitter.com/NutritionWonk?lang=en
https://twitter.com/kcklatt?lang=en
I think this has the potential to be up there with Sigma Nutrition, which is probably my current favorite nutrition/fitness podcast. (I also really like FitCast, but that's not as nutrition focused.)
I'm trying to listen to it but her partner talks like such a valley girl that I am finding it hard to get through. He is is killing the word "like" with overuse.
I trust her take on things more so than him. He says he existed on "logs of mozzarella " for the two weeks he ate ketogenic. As a vegetarian, I don't think he ate a well formulated diet. I think most people who have success in the diet eat much better than him - no one wants to exist on mozzarella.... And then they excluded nuts because a Keto trial for diabetes treatment did...why?
I would like to know how much sodium they were eating. Both said they were eating adequate sodium but but had Keto flu which is just an electrolyte imbalance. Sounds like they needed more sodium. It may have been an impact on their energy levels too.
These were both young relatively healthy people. It was no surprise to me that the were not experiencing the benefits that people with IR would. They did not notice AI improvements in two weeks. That isn't surprising. Changes generally take longer, going GF did not touch my arthritis symptoms caused by celiac for months. improvements after just 2 weeks would be surprising.
As a celiac, their self consciousness towards eating different than everyone was immature - their perceived stress about it seemed extreme to me. Plus, as a ketoer, most are not eating all that differently unless the meal is very carb heavy.
I'm sure their experiences are not completely unique. Does their experience apply to others? Sure. Were their experiences a reflection of those who chose Keto, have success on it or enjoy it? No. Would I listen to them again? Probably not - her partner is not a good speaker.
Keven started with the intent of creating a nutritious, balanced diet, but found it too difficult as a vegetarian. His energy level decreased, and he found it easier to resort to logs of mozzarella than to put more work into it.
During this part of the discussion, he also complained about the cost. He was used $0.89 bag of lentils lasting him several meals, vs avocado on keto toast - the nut based flour is more expensive and he'd only get once serving of avocado for $1.29.
Re: sodium - Kevin said he was eating entire boxes of Parmesan crisps and that they were very high sodium. They mentioned keto flu, but I didn't get the impression that it impacted either of them much if at all. IIRC, they were discussing it more as a potential issue for other people new to keto.
Re: stress about eating differently - Katherine did not experience this at all. She simply told people that she was doing this for a podcast. I'm not sure how much Kevin was experiencing this personally or putting himself in the shoes of others. The silly "I have diarrhea" bit was a potential excuse someone who was not eating due to fasting could use, rather than having anything to do with keto.3 -
One thing that stuck with me was that when Kevin had a bag of Brussels sprouts for breakfast and was dismayed to discover this used up 15 net carbs. He doesn't consider any diet (not medically necessary) that forces someone to limit Brussels sprouts to be sensible.7
-
kshama2001 wrote: »A nutritionist I really like (she's an RD and has an MS in Nutrition Biochemistry and Epidemiology, and she blogs and tweets under the name Nutrition Wonk), recently started a podcast where she and a partner (who is a PhD in Molecular Nutrition) discuss various popular diets and then try the diets for 2 weeks. They are currently doing paleo (I saw her tweets on it, which led me to the podcast), but the first one is keto, and I know another is DASH.
Introduction to the podcast, which is on iTunes, among other places: https://www.thenutritionwonk.com/single-post/2018/10/24/Introducing-N1-A-New-Nutrition-and-Diet-Podcast
I listened to the first episode on keto and thought it was excellent. (The second is where they discuss experiences on keto, the first is a discussion of current research on it, how it works, the various studies.)
Highly recommended!
If anyone else listens and likes the podcast, I'd be interested in starting a thread to react to the different episodes and the discussion, but in the meantime anyone interested in keto (for any reason), might want to check it out. I'll say it's very fair-minded/even-handed.
Relevant twitter:
https://twitter.com/NutritionWonk?lang=en
https://twitter.com/kcklatt?lang=en
I think this has the potential to be up there with Sigma Nutrition, which is probably my current favorite nutrition/fitness podcast. (I also really like FitCast, but that's not as nutrition focused.)
I'm trying to listen to it but her partner talks like such a valley girl that I am finding it hard to get through. He is is killing the word "like" with overuse.
I trust her take on things more so than him. He says he existed on "logs of mozzarella " for the two weeks he ate ketogenic. As a vegetarian, I don't think he ate a well formulated diet. I think most people who have success in the diet eat much better than him - no one wants to exist on mozzarella.... And then they excluded nuts because a Keto trial for diabetes treatment did...why?
I would like to know how much sodium they were eating. Both said they were eating adequate sodium but but had Keto flu which is just an electrolyte imbalance. Sounds like they needed more sodium. It may have been an impact on their energy levels too.
These were both young relatively healthy people. It was no surprise to me that the were not experiencing the benefits that people with IR would. They did not notice AI improvements in two weeks. That isn't surprising. Changes generally take longer, going GF did not touch my arthritis symptoms caused by celiac for months. improvements after just 2 weeks would be surprising.
As a celiac, their self consciousness towards eating different than everyone was immature - their perceived stress about it seemed extreme to me. Plus, as a ketoer, most are not eating all that differently unless the meal is very carb heavy.
I'm sure their experiences are not completely unique. Does their experience apply to others? Sure. Were their experiences a reflection of those who chose Keto, have success on it or enjoy it? No. Would I listen to them again? Probably not - her partner is not a good speaker.
Keven started with the intent of creating a nutritious, balanced diet, but found it too difficult as a vegetarian. His energy level decreased, and he found it easier to resort to logs of mozzarella than to put more work into it.
During this part of the discussion, he also complained about the cost. He was used $0.89 bag of lentils lasting him several meals, vs avocado on keto toast - the nut based flour is more expensive and he'd only get once serving of avocado for $1.29.
Re: sodium - Kevin said he was eating entire boxes of Parmesan crisps and that they were very high sodium. They mentioned keto flu, but I didn't get the impression that it impacted either of them much if at all. IIRC, they were discussing it more as a potential issue for other people new to keto.
Re: stress about eating differently - Katherine did not experience this at all. She simply told people that she was doing this for a podcast. I'm not sure how much Kevin was experiencing this personally or putting himself in the shoes of others. The silly "I have diarrhea" bit was a potential excuse someone who was not eating due to fasting could use, rather than having anything to do with keto.
Yeah... I doubt I would have stayed Keto if I existed on mozzerella cheese. He could have at least picked some cheese variety! Mozzerella is pretty bland.
He really didn't plan well at all. Even the "toast" was odd. Most ketoers don't make a bunch of substitute foods that mimic high carb foods. The avocado is fine but having it with an egg would have made more sense. Or even some of his lentils.
I know they said they increased sodium, but it may not have been enough. They showed symptoms of low electrolytes so chances are, IMO, it was low electrolytes.
6 -
kshama2001 wrote: »One thing that stuck with me was that when Kevin had a bag of Brussels sprouts for breakfast and was dismayed to discover this used up 15 net carbs. He doesn't consider any diet (not medically necessary) that forces someone to limit Brussels sprouts to be sensible.
And thats Brussel sprouts without bacon even!1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »One thing that stuck with me was that when Kevin had a bag of Brussels sprouts for breakfast and was dismayed to discover this used up 15 net carbs. He doesn't consider any diet (not medically necessary) that forces someone to limit Brussels sprouts to be sensible.
And thats Brussel sprouts without bacon even!
Well, since he's a vegetarian, that's pretty understandable
6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »One thing that stuck with me was that when Kevin had a bag of Brussels sprouts for breakfast and was dismayed to discover this used up 15 net carbs. He doesn't consider any diet (not medically necessary) that forces someone to limit Brussels sprouts to be sensible.
And thats Brussel sprouts without bacon even!
Well, since he's a vegetarian, that's pretty understandable
Vegetarian ≠ understandable. <- relax, it's a feeble attempt at humor.
5 -
this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
in my opinion, only2 -
foreverhealthy3 wrote: »this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
in my opinion, only
I can tell you for me I have Familial Hypercholesterolemia(FH-its genetic) and keto made my cholesterol even higher than it was not to mention it caused my health to decline while I did it. my blood work improved once I stopped doing it. I have to be on a low fat,low cholesterol high fiber diet for my cholesterol. and I was reading how keto would improve my numbers and so on. it may for those that dont have my condition,but for those with the same condition the high fat is a NO NO. as for people with my condition we cannot process fats and cholesterol properly and our bodies make too much of those things as it is. but at the time I didnt know I had FH.
if you have high cholesterol and it runs in your family it would be a good idea to be tested for FH as it often goes undiagnosed and misdiagnosed as just regular high cholesterol. the difference for people with FH is eating a diet high in fats(any fats) can cause an increase in heart diasease as well as heart attacks,TIAs and strokes and we can also end up with type 2 if we dont watch what we eat. I also have to take meds as well as diet alone doesnt work for me trust me Ive tried.
2 -
foreverhealthy3 wrote: »this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
in my opinion, only
As a very general rule, for people without FH, triglycerides tend to drop, HDL tends to go up, and LDL usually strays about the same although ostriches size tends to improve when someone eats a ketogenic diet. Also, inflammatory markers usually drop, and insulin is reduced - all positives when it comes to CAD or CVD. Ymmv
Eating foods rich in cholesterol will not usually make your cholesterol worse.
But for older people, especially women, we know that higher cholesterol is associated with better health, lower CAD and All cause mortality. Lowering it may not be helpful in the long run anyways.
6 -
foreverhealthy3 wrote: »this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
in my opinion, only
As a very general rule, for people without FH, triglycerides tend to drop, HDL tends to go up, and LDL usually strays about the same although ostriches size tends to improve when someone eats a ketogenic diet. Also, inflammatory markers usually drop, and insulin is reduced - all positives when it comes to CAD or CVD. Ymmv
Eating foods rich in cholesterol will not usually make your cholesterol worse.
But for older people, especially women, we know that higher cholesterol is associated with better health, lower CAD and All cause mortality. Lowering it may not be helpful in the long run anyways.
The last time I read up cholesterol at my age making sure it doesn't drop below 250 was best to reduce dementia risk.10 -
foreverhealthy3 wrote: »this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
in my opinion, only
Weight loss and exercise has the greatest impact on metabolic health. For all intents and purposes, its 95% of the equation. Focus on that and don't stress diet too much. Eat the one that will give you the highest rate of success.8 -
foreverhealthy3 wrote: »this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
in my opinion, only
As a very general rule, for people without FH, triglycerides tend to drop, HDL tends to go up, and LDL usually strays about the same although ostriches particle size tends to improve when someone eats a ketogenic diet. Also, inflammatory markers usually drop, and insulin is reduced - all positives when it comes to CAD or CVD. Ymmv
Eating foods rich in cholesterol will not usually make your cholesterol worse.
But for older people, especially women, we know that higher cholesterol is associated with better health, lower CAD and All cause mortality. Lowering it may not be helpful in the long run anyways.
Not sure how spell check got ostriches from particles.
I agree that weight loss and exercise will impact cholesterol as well, but I am not sure if it is the greatest impact, or even more than diet or genetic issues.5 -
foreverhealthy3 wrote: »this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
in my opinion, only
As a very general rule, for people without FH, triglycerides tend to drop, HDL tends to go up, and LDL usually strays about the same although ostriches particle size tends to improve when someone eats a ketogenic diet. Also, inflammatory markers usually drop, and insulin is reduced - all positives when it comes to CAD or CVD. Ymmv
Eating foods rich in cholesterol will not usually make your cholesterol worse.
But for older people, especially women, we know that higher cholesterol is associated with better health, lower CAD and All cause mortality. Lowering it may not be helpful in the long run anyways.
Not sure how spell check got ostriches from particles.
I agree that weight loss and exercise will impact cholesterol as well, but I am not sure if it is the greatest impact, or even more than diet or genetic issues.
Find me a study with weight loss that doesn't improve metabolic markers. That information is pretty common. Its why all diets with weight loss lead to the conclusion you suggest for keto.
If you think the diet makes a big difference, watch the impact as you gain weight. And if you compare body low fat and low carb diets, there is no statistical difference in weight loss or metabolic marker difference to include insulin, cvd risk or all cause mortality.13 -
foreverhealthy3 wrote: »this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
in my opinion, only
As a very general rule, for people without FH, triglycerides tend to drop, HDL tends to go up, and LDL usually strays about the same although ostriches particle size tends to improve when someone eats a ketogenic diet. Also, inflammatory markers usually drop, and insulin is reduced - all positives when it comes to CAD or CVD. Ymmv
Eating foods rich in cholesterol will not usually make your cholesterol worse.
But for older people, especially women, we know that higher cholesterol is associated with better health, lower CAD and All cause mortality. Lowering it may not be helpful in the long run anyways.
Not sure how spell check got ostriches from particles.
I agree that weight loss and exercise will impact cholesterol as well, but I am not sure if it is the greatest impact, or even more than diet or genetic issues.
Find me a study with weight loss that doesn't improve metabolic markers. That information is pretty common. Its why all diets with weight loss lead to the conclusion you suggest for keto.
If you think the diet makes a big difference, watch the impact as you gain weight. And if you compare body low fat and low carb diets, there is no statistical difference in weight loss or metabolic marker difference to include insulin, cvd risk or all cause mortality.
I dont have any studies but I can share my experience. when I was first diagnosed I was at a healthy 140 lbs and I was really active back then. exercise alone and being at a healthy weight. as I gained weight it didnt change too much it wasnt much higher than it was when I was first diagnosed.years went on and it didnt get any worse but it didnt get any better either. I was on statins too and it made no difference.
I got off statins for a while and tried just diet and exericse. it lowered some but was still extremely high. then I lost the weight and it lowered some again but was still extremely high. I was put on a new kind of statin along with the low fat,low cholesterol high fiber diet. I was also weight lifting something I didnt do before. and I was able to get it down to normal numbers for the first time since I was diagnosed . But also what many dont know is that when you are losing weight and fat your cholesterol will go up because of whats stored in your bodyfat is released into the blood stream,but its usually only a short time. but thats just my experience4 -
foreverhealthy3 wrote: »this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
in my opinion, only
As a very general rule, for people without FH, triglycerides tend to drop, HDL tends to go up, and LDL usually strays about the same although ostriches particle size tends to improve when someone eats a ketogenic diet. Also, inflammatory markers usually drop, and insulin is reduced - all positives when it comes to CAD or CVD. Ymmv
Eating foods rich in cholesterol will not usually make your cholesterol worse.
But for older people, especially women, we know that higher cholesterol is associated with better health, lower CAD and All cause mortality. Lowering it may not be helpful in the long run anyways.
Not sure how spell check got ostriches from particles.
I agree that weight loss and exercise will impact cholesterol as well, but I am not sure if it is the greatest impact, or even more than diet or genetic issues.
Find me a study with weight loss that doesn't improve metabolic markers. That information is pretty common. Its why all diets with weight loss lead to the conclusion you suggest for keto.
If you think the diet makes a big difference, watch the impact as you gain weight. And if you compare body low fat and low carb diets, there is no statistical difference in weight loss or metabolic marker difference to include insulin, cvd risk or all cause mortality.
I KNOW that weight loss improves lipids. I agreed with you. I just questioned if There was evidence to back up your statement.
Keto's effects on lipids (and BG control for that matter) are seen in many without weight loss, or significant weight loss. A diet of excess calories and high fat, low carb, seems to be able to shift triglycerides and some lipids within days.
But I'm not arguing that weight loss can improve lipids. I just don't know how accurate it is to sayforeverhealthy3 wrote: »this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
in my opinion, only
Weight loss and exercise has the greatest impact on metabolic health. For all intents and purposes, its 95% of the equation. Focus on that and don't stress diet too much. Eat the one that will give you the highest rate of success.
13 -
foreverhealthy3 wrote: »this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
in my opinion, only
As a very general rule, for people without FH, triglycerides tend to drop, HDL tends to go up, and LDL usually strays about the same although ostriches particle size tends to improve when someone eats a ketogenic diet. Also, inflammatory markers usually drop, and insulin is reduced - all positives when it comes to CAD or CVD. Ymmv
Eating foods rich in cholesterol will not usually make your cholesterol worse.
But for older people, especially women, we know that higher cholesterol is associated with better health, lower CAD and All cause mortality. Lowering it may not be helpful in the long run anyways.
Not sure how spell check got ostriches from particles.
I agree that weight loss and exercise will impact cholesterol as well, but I am not sure if it is the greatest impact, or even more than diet or genetic issues.
Find me a study with weight loss that doesn't improve metabolic markers. That information is pretty common. Its why all diets with weight loss lead to the conclusion you suggest for keto.
If you think the diet makes a big difference, watch the impact as you gain weight. And if you compare body low fat and low carb diets, there is no statistical difference in weight loss or metabolic marker difference to include insulin, cvd risk or all cause mortality.
I KNOW that weight loss improves lipids. I agreed with you. I just questioned if There was evidence to back up your statement.
Keto's effects on lipids (and BG control for that matter) are seen in many without weight loss, or significant weight loss. A diet of excess calories and high fat, low carb, seems to be able to shift triglycerides and some lipids within days.
But I'm not arguing that weight loss can improve lipids. I just don't know how accurate it is to sayforeverhealthy3 wrote: »this is one topic that has so much debate. I haven't tried it because it leans toward fatty food and my triglycerides and cholesterol, don't need extra added to it. I read a lot of posting and didn't see anyone say how their blood work is turning out; for someone older, cholesterol is a concern.
in my opinion, only
Weight loss and exercise has the greatest impact on metabolic health. For all intents and purposes, its 95% of the equation. Focus on that and don't stress diet too much. Eat the one that will give you the highest rate of success.
You don't know how accurate that statement is, or you want to believe that keto alone with no weight loss is just as good?
Is there a weight loss vs keto control study? That would be the easy way to solve it.
And yes, its fully recognized the benefits of BG control in diabetic patients.... No argument there.
There is also conflicting evidence on how lipids are effected on lchf or keto. Some see large increases in LDL, which may not be beneficial. The argument on particulate size or other biomarkers hasn't exactly been accepted widely.5 -
It's good if it helps you stay compliant, eliminate trigger foods, helps you form better relationships with foods and helps you long term to meeting a good weight.
It sucks if you struggle with diets that are super restrictive, and enjoy and are satiated by healthy carb sources likes fruits/veggies/starches.
This! I've only been doing keto for the past 2 weeks, but it helps me with my food addiction, keeps me away from my trigger foods, and allows me to truly listen to my body and tell when i'm actually hungry or just wanting to eat to eat. It's great to be able to stop eating when i'm full and actually leave food on the plate! With my trigger foods: fried foods mostly, french fries, things like that- i always felt "compelled" to eat the rest, even if it made me so stuffed i felt sick!5 -
It's good if it helps you stay compliant, eliminate trigger foods, helps you form better relationships with foods and helps you long term to meeting a good weight.
It sucks if you struggle with diets that are super restrictive, and enjoy and are satiated by healthy carb sources likes fruits/veggies/starches.
This! I've only been doing keto for the past 2 weeks, but it helps me with my food addiction, keeps me away from my trigger foods, and allows me to truly listen to my body and tell when i'm actually hungry or just wanting to eat to eat. It's great to be able to stop eating when i'm full and actually leave food on the plate! With my trigger foods: fried foods mostly, french fries, things like that- i always felt "compelled" to eat the rest, even if it made me so stuffed i felt sick!
It's interesting how often (as here) trigger foods are perceived as "carbs" but really are carbs + fat, often about half and half. Fried foods are inherently high fat, not inherently "carbs" although they can be also high in carbs if they are potatoes (fries are about half and half fat and carbs) or you add breading.
Anyway, that aside, I agree keto can be a satiating way to eat (as can just plain low carb or for some ignoring macros and focusing on what they feel satisfies them). Low fat also can (lots of people who can't stop eating fries or burgers have no issue with vegetables, plain potatoes, fish or leaner cuts of protein), but low carb is more likely to feel like you can still eat lots of indulgent foods on it, so it's not hard, for lots of people who do really like fat or meat.
Interestingly, plain potatoes typically score as about the highest satiety per calorie score, where's fried potatoes (particularly fries) or other combinations of potatoes plus fat (mashed potatoes with cream and butter) score much lower.
Anyway, others may feel much more indulgent on a lower fat, higher fat, but nutrient dense diet, and so find that more enjoyable and easier to stick to.8 -
Tells you everything you need to know:
https://youtu.be/Kzb0AsnSB-o 11
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions