Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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Christismylife wrote: »I have a question. I took a week off my calorie restriction because of appendicitis and resulting appendectomy. I had been adhering pretty closely to my plan before but weight had been very slow in coming off. I decided after surgery to not count for the week (I know this isn’t a true diet break—I wasn’t counting calories and trying to eat at maintenance). I started back again on Monday of this week with the calorie restriction, and my weight has been dropping! I am now today lower than I have been in over a year. Did my week off restricting calories somehow affect my weight loss?
I should note that I don’t think taking a week off to eat whatever I feel like is a great plan. I was just focused on healing and resting and decided not to count that week. In the future though, I am wondering if I could see similar positive results of losing when I restart calories restriction after taking a proper diet break (eating at maintenance level).
a quick google yielded that the average appendix weighs 5-6 oz... so there's that.
lol. Didn't think of that. Good catch.0 -
Were you working out before? I would assume you stopped workouts to heal. That could be a factor, you could have lost some water weight as a result.
I was.a quick google yielded that the average appendix weighs 5-6 oz... so there's that.
Not the best weight loss plan, but hey, it’s something. Haha
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Christismylife wrote: »Were you working out before? I would assume you stopped workouts to heal. That could be a factor, you could have lost some water weight as a result.
I was.a quick google yielded that the average appendix weighs 5-6 oz... so there's that.
Not the best weight loss plan, but hey, it’s something. Haha
Well.... when you think about it... you are highly unlikely to ever regain that particular weight. If I am ever in a real plateau I might have to consider it.3 -
It can but not that dramatically. You can't lose fat weight fast enough to have accomplished much in 3 days. It is more likely that you were due for a whoosh and this was always going to happen. It could also be that you might have been keeping yourself a little stressed about your weight and the change in attitude dropped your cortisol and your water weight.
This all assumes you are not currently dehydrated.
I think the whoosh guess is a good one. I had maintained my weight for the week before surgery.0 -
gogetemrogue wrote: »emmajunesmith19 wrote: »Thank you for replying.
Yes since the beginning of feb I have been on a strict 1300, from 1st Jan till then it was never above 1500 (apart from a couple of times but still under maintenance)
I’ve been looking around on google now at refeed days and it mainly says refeed says are for people under 25% body fat & people who are already lean trying to get leaner but not lose muscle. I’m 25% body fat, not under. So I wonder whether 2 refeed days will be to much. I think I’m going to try this coming week, and I have decided to do them Tuesday and Wednesday I’m hoping the higher carbs will carry through to Thursday and Fridays training sessions.
I guess it’s all about working out yourself what is best. Trial and error. There’s so much confliction it’s difficult to know what to do for the best!
A two day refeed at maintenance will only truly delay progress by two days (actual scale results may vary, but you know what I mean). At the same time, if your training has suffered from that glycogen low feeling, you know where you feel like your muscles aren't able to do the movements as well as they should be or take as much weight as your previous sessions, then a refeed is probably a good idea to ensure you don't get injured at the very least.
Honestly it seems like you are doing a lot of things right, especially since you are training regularly. I hope your PT appreciates how hard you work and understands that since you are so small that scale progress might be slower than their other clients, but that doesn't mean you aren't progressing. I think that where you are right now, progress pics should be taken often so you can see if you body is recomping at the same time as losing fat slowly.gogetemrogue wrote: »emmajunesmith19 wrote: »Thank you for replying.
Yes since the beginning of feb I have been on a strict 1300, from 1st Jan till then it was never above 1500 (apart from a couple of times but still under maintenance)
I’ve been looking around on google now at refeed days and it mainly says refeed says are for people under 25% body fat & people who are already lean trying to get leaner but not lose muscle. I’m 25% body fat, not under. So I wonder whether 2 refeed days will be to much. I think I’m going to try this coming week, and I have decided to do them Tuesday and Wednesday I’m hoping the higher carbs will carry through to Thursday and Fridays training sessions.
I guess it’s all about working out yourself what is best. Trial and error. There’s so much confliction it’s difficult to know what to do for the best!
A two day refeed at maintenance will only truly delay progress by two days (actual scale results may vary, but you know what I mean). At the same time, if your training has suffered from that glycogen low feeling, you know where you feel like your muscles aren't able to do the movements as well as they should be or take as much weight as your previous sessions, then a refeed is probably a good idea to ensure you don't get injured at the very least.
Honestly it seems like you are doing a lot of things right, especially since you are training regularly. I hope your PT appreciates how hard you work and understands that since you are so small that scale progress might be slower than their other clients, but that doesn't mean you aren't progressing. I think that where you are right now, progress pics should be taken often so you can see if you body is recomping at the same time as losing fat slowly.
Thank you for replying.
Yes I think your right, I am due my first photo since starting with my PT 6 weeks ago... so I am looking forward to seeing how my body has changed in this time as I’ve not taken any photos myself!
I think I’m more worried about it coming off quickly and not realising how my actual body shape has changed!
I’ve just been thinking today. As long as I keep up my training and I get a good amount of exercise in during the week - I’ll be fine to go up to maintenance and hopefully built more muscle doing that.
It’s just hard getting into the mind set of eating more calories after always restricting - I’ve gotten very good at very low cal very high protein meal ideas that carry me through every day!
Anyway, let’s take things one day at a time and after tomorrow I might be surprised in the change I hope!2 -
Christismylife wrote: »I have a question. I took a week off my calorie restriction because of appendicitis and resulting appendectomy. I had been adhering pretty closely to my plan before but weight had been very slow in coming off. I decided after surgery to not count for the week (I know this isn’t a true diet break—I wasn’t counting calories and trying to eat at maintenance). I started back again on Monday of this week with the calorie restriction, and my weight has been dropping! I am now today lower than I have been in over a year. Did my week off restricting calories somehow affect my weight loss?
I should note that I don’t think taking a week off to eat whatever I feel like is a great plan. I was just focused on healing and resting and decided not to count that week. In the future though, I am wondering if I could see similar positive results of losing when I restart calories restriction after taking a proper diet break (eating at maintenance level).
Aside from the loss of an organ, injury and surgery recovery actually take up quite a bit of energy. To heal optimally, you actually would want to be in a bit of a surplus, again with a focus on protein, nutrient density, and managing any pain - this is more for future reference for all other related injuries.
Beyond that, you basically get a snippet of what this thread is about. Take a diet break, give your body a reprieve from the stress of restricting energy, get hormonal regulation back to a new working baseline, then repeat another round if needed. So yes, you could see similar results in the future.4 -
Bump (referenced this thread in another post).3
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I have a question, and I've been searching around for an answer. I'm wondering if it's just not common. I've been in a caloric deficit since the start of the year. I decided I was ready for a diet break. So I changed my settings on myfitnesspal and it says around 1900 would be maintenance for me. Going to that from 1550 seemed like a big jump. So first day I upped calories to 1750, 1800 the next, then 1900 the next day. By day 4 I was feeling miserably full and my digestion is a wreck. So I lowered back down to 1800 which likely isn't maintenance. But it's really feeling awful. Should I have taken this slower? The plan was to do the break for a week and today is day 6.
I don't know. I have IBS so I'm just wondering if I increased things too quickly. What can I do differently next time to make it easier? Or should I just skip doing a break and try a longer reverse next time?2 -
MyEvolvingJourney wrote: »I have a question, and I've been searching around for an answer. I'm wondering if it's just not common. I've been in a caloric deficit since the start of the year. I decided I was ready for a diet break. So I changed my settings on myfitnesspal and it says around 1900 would be maintenance for me. Going to that from 1550 seemed like a big jump. So first day I upped calories to 1750, 1800 the next, then 1900 the next day. By day 4 I was feeling miserably full and my digestion is a wreck. So I lowered back down to 1800 which likely isn't maintenance. But it's really feeling awful. Should I have taken this slower? The plan was to do the break for a week and today is day 6.
I don't know. I have IBS so I'm just wondering if I increased things too quickly. What can I do differently next time to make it easier? Or should I just skip doing a break and try a longer reverse next time?
When increasing calories, you should consider doing so by increasing higher calorie foods, like peanut butter. This way, you aren't increasing food volume. I would also be careful about adding a ton of fiber, which can make you feel worse.6 -
MyEvolvingJourney wrote: »I have a question, and I've been searching around for an answer. I'm wondering if it's just not common. I've been in a caloric deficit since the start of the year. I decided I was ready for a diet break. So I changed my settings on myfitnesspal and it says around 1900 would be maintenance for me. Going to that from 1550 seemed like a big jump. So first day I upped calories to 1750, 1800 the next, then 1900 the next day. By day 4 I was feeling miserably full and my digestion is a wreck. So I lowered back down to 1800 which likely isn't maintenance. But it's really feeling awful. Should I have taken this slower? The plan was to do the break for a week and today is day 6.
I don't know. I have IBS so I'm just wondering if I increased things too quickly. What can I do differently next time to make it easier? Or should I just skip doing a break and try a longer reverse next time?
When increasing calories, you should consider doing so by increasing higher calorie foods, like peanut butter. This way, you aren't increasing food volume. I would also be careful about adding a ton of fiber, which can make you feel worse.
^^This.
But also, a week isn't long enough. Ten days minimum, preferably 14 (at maintenance), to get the hormonal effects (raising leptin, lowering cortisol, etc) that is the whole purpose of the diet break. So if you need to slowly increase your cals, which some people are more comfortable doing, you need to factor that into the length of your diet break.
Also, you should be able to work out your maintenance cals based on your recent average weekly weight loss (say, over the past six weeks), so long as you've been tracking intake accurately.4 -
Wasn't there supposed to be an emphasis on carbs or was that only for re-feeds?1
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »
So re-feeds: shock and awe for 48 hours; make it a carb fest for max hormonal performance... and
diet breaks: longer lasting at 14+ days, at maintenance, so no need to fully shock and awe; just don't low carb it?
What about people on keto who are planning to long term maintain at less than 100g of carbs a day? How are they supposed to go about implementing re-feeds and diet breaks?1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »
So re-feeds: shock and awe for 48 hours; make it a carb fest for max hormonal performance... and
diet breaks: longer lasting at 14+ days, at maintenance, so no need to fully shock and awe; just don't low carb it?
What about people on keto who are planning to long term maintain at less than 100g of carbs a day? How are they supposed to go about implementing re-feeds and diet breaks?
Keto dieters typically increase fat intake to meet maintenance calories while maintaining their preferred CHO macros for diet breaks. If they want to take the actual break from keto and go back to a normal mixed diet, it would be ideal.
Refeeds are a bit of a toss up. If they are into cyclical keto dieting (CKD), it would include the 48 hour carb up. If standard keto, then they would just increase kcals, but with negligible impact on leptin levels.
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Hello.
I hope all you Folks are grand!!
Before I begin, please forgive me if I am steering away from the topic of conversation. I don't intend to. I am just looking for as much guidance and support from as many reliable sources as possible. Thank you for being patient with me!!
Does anyone here ever feel concerned about consuming too many lower calorie foods (especially leafy greens, fruits like melon, egg whites) to the point that they are sabotaging fat loss?
Does anyone experience "bloated" sensations and feeling very full after eating high volume?
Again, thank you. I am grateful to this community. There are some questions I feel silly asking here, but even more clueless asking people offline. This place feels safe in a particular way.0 -
Hello.
I hope all you Folks are grand!!
Before I begin, please forgive me if I am steering away from the topic of conversation. I don't intend to. I am just looking for as much guidance and support from as many reliable sources as possible. Thank you for being patient with me!!
Does anyone here ever feel concerned about consuming too many lower calorie foods (especially leafy greens, fruits like melon, egg whites) to the point that they are sabotaging fat loss?
Does anyone experience "bloated" sensations and feeling very full after eating high volume?
Again, thank you. I am grateful to this community. There are some questions I feel silly asking here, but even more clueless asking people offline. This place feels safe in a particular way.
Total calories alone dictate fat loss not volume of food. I eat a very high volume and lose weight as expected because I am in a caloric deficit.
Many people get bloated from eating a high volume especially if it contains a lot of fiber. I am well adjusted to it so it does not bother me.
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Bump, referenced in another thread 4
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Hello.
I hope all you Folks are grand!!
Before I begin, please forgive me if I am steering away from the topic of conversation. I don't intend to. I am just looking for as much guidance and support from as many reliable sources as possible. Thank you for being patient with me!!
Does anyone here ever feel concerned about consuming too many lower calorie foods (especially leafy greens, fruits like melon, egg whites) to the point that they are sabotaging fat loss?
Does anyone experience "bloated" sensations and feeling very full after eating high volume?
Again, thank you. I am grateful to this community. There are some questions I feel silly asking here, but even more clueless asking people offline. This place feels safe in a particular way.
I promise you that no one has ever ate too few calories to the detriment of fat loss. Unless you mean the potential for binge eating due to extreme caloric restriction, then yes, that can be a concern if food is restricted for too long. But that is the reason for refeeds and diet breaks; to serve as a mental and physiological reprieve from restriction.
Feeling bloated after high volume eating is normal, albeit uncomfortable, but some people are volume eaters and can only feel satiated if they are physically stuffed to capacity, regardless if they ate 300kcal of lean protein and fibrous veggies/fruit, or ate 3000kcal of processed food.
A few ways to offset that is to eat slower, eat more frequently, or elongate your window of time restricted feeding/intermittent fasting, but from personal experience, when you're restricting calories to survival amounts, the last thing you want to do is eat slow or evenly space out 200kcal meals throughout the day. So bloat happens, especially when you look for protein fluff recipes specifically designed to make you feel like you choked down 120g of birthday cake flavored protein cement.2 -
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alteredsteve175 wrote: »
Trust me, it is mouth wateringly appetizing when you read it. It quickly begins to lose its appeal once you start making it and the guar gum or xantham gum start holding onto the fork/spoon/bowl and that's what's going to be sticking to your insides like spackle. Textural eaters will love the feeling of glue!1 -
I need to look up your recipe again! It failed to volumize the one time I tried it!!!0
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alteredsteve175 wrote: »
Trust me, it is mouth wateringly appetizing when you read it. It quickly begins to lose its appeal once you start making it and the guar gum or xantham gum start holding onto the fork/spoon/bowl and that's what's going to be sticking to your insides like spackle. Textural eaters will love the feeling of glue!
I have made protein fluff (or ice cream) with and without the xanthan gum. I prefer it sans gum - the xanthan gives it a slick mouthfeel that I don't care for. I don't get as much volume, but no matter - there's plenty of volume with all the ice, and it's just a protein delivery vehicle, anyway.
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I need to look up your recipe again! It failed to volumize the one time I tried it!!!
There are so many variants of protein fluff, but the basic recipe is to get low fat+low calorie foods and combine with your choice of protein powder and any other high protein binding agent like egg whites. Alternatively, there is a thing known as protein sludge, which is essentially the same thing. Whatever gets you to choke down as much flavored protein that can be considered dessert as @alteredsteve175 mentioned.
My basic recipe was non fat greek yogurt, some berries, 1-2 scoops of whey protein, and pb2 to make a sort of pb&j concoction. The yogurt was so damn thick I also didn't need the gum, and having 8 oz of it felt like a meal in itself, which it often was.3 -
My basic recipe was non fat greek yogurt, some berries, 1-2 scoops of whey protein, and pb2 to make a sort of pb&j concoction. The yogurt was so damn thick I also didn't need the gum, and having 8 oz of it felt like a meal in itself, which it often was.I need to look up your recipe again! It failed to volumize the one time I tried it!!!
Exactly what I did, only I put cocoa powder in place of the PB2.
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I'm sorry -- I am sure you all answered this already, but, if you don't mind reminding me, what appliance or method do you use to "volumize" your "protein fluff"?
Thank you for being so generous to share your ideas and advice.
Happy Saturday (:0 -
Hey, all the above sound like my normal greek yogurt "parfait" (except no extra protein but yes cereal, usually high fibre). But that does not volumize!!! So how does the fluff... fluff?!?!?0
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I'm sorry -- I am sure you all answered this already, but, if you don't mind reminding me, what appliance or method do you use to "volumize" your "protein fluff"?
Thank you for being so generous to share your ideas and advice.
Happy Saturday (:Hey, all the above sound like my normal greek yogurt "parfait" (except no extra protein but yes cereal, usually high fibre). But that does not volumize!!! So how does the fluff... fluff?!?!?
Aeration is usually what makes most viscous liquid "fluff."
I found one that might help:
https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/protein-fluff-3-quick-and-easy-recipes.html2 -
Aeration is usually what makes most viscous liquid "fluff."
I found one that might help:
https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/protein-fluff-3-quick-and-easy-recipes.html
Thanks for sharing those recipes, @anubis609. My blender struggles to crush and then blend a whole tray of ice cubes, so this could be a good alternative. Could use a little fruit in the diet, so that's another plus.
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I'm creeping back to MFP after a long break (and gain). Wanted to give this thread a bit of love and bump it so more people have the chance to read about these things I wish I would've known when I began. 6
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https://www.nature.com/articles/s42255-019-0095-y
"Leptin and the endocrine control of energy balance." - Jeffrey M. Friedman, Nature, August 29, 2019.
(pdf download available.)
https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/26554-jeffrey-m-friedman-to-receive-2020-breakthrough-prize-in-life-sciences/
"Jeffrey M. Friedman, whose [1994] discovery of the hormone leptin has transformed our understanding of obesity, will be a 2020 recipient of the Breakthrough Prize in Life Sciences. He is being honored for his discovery of a new endocrine system through which adipose tissue signals the brain to regulate food intake. Friedman is the Marilyn M. Simpson Professor and head of the Laboratory of Molecular Genetics at Rockefeller, as well as a Howard Hughes Medical Institute Investigator.
"The relatively new Breakthrough Prize, with its accompanying $3 million award, is the most generous prize in the sciences, and recognizes achievements in the life sciences, fundamental physics, and mathematics. The prize was established eight years ago by several Silicon Valley tech entrepreneurs, including the founders of Google, Facebook, and 23andMe.
"Friedman’s 1994 discovery of leptin, and of its receptor in the brain encoded by the obese gene, shed new light on the pathogenesis of obesity. He and his colleagues have since shown that leptin acts on sets of neurons in brain centers that regulate food intake and energy expenditure, and has powerful effects on reproduction, metabolism, other endocrine systems, and immune function."4
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