Should I follow nurses diet or tdee
joannemgregory
Posts: 8 Member
The nurse at my GP has put me on a 1500 cal diet recommended MFP but said don’t eat your exercise calories
The first 4 weeks I lost 5lb which was perfect.
I am concerned I am not eating enough calories
My BMR is 1717 benedict Harris or 1450 Katch McCardle
I put my activity as lightly active as I am mostly at home and my only exercise atm is walking the dog.
That gave me a TDEE of 2318 cals
I have alway believed in eating exercise calories if I eat a 1500 calories diet I will be eating at a deficit of about 800 cals. I am concerned I will not be eating enough to cover my body’s base needs
My stats are 45
Height. 5 ft 7in
Weight. 220lb
Body fat 50.2%
The first 4 weeks I lost 5lb which was perfect.
I am concerned I am not eating enough calories
My BMR is 1717 benedict Harris or 1450 Katch McCardle
I put my activity as lightly active as I am mostly at home and my only exercise atm is walking the dog.
That gave me a TDEE of 2318 cals
I have alway believed in eating exercise calories if I eat a 1500 calories diet I will be eating at a deficit of about 800 cals. I am concerned I will not be eating enough to cover my body’s base needs
My stats are 45
Height. 5 ft 7in
Weight. 220lb
Body fat 50.2%
1
Replies
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It seems like you're losing at a healthy pace. If you don't trust the nurse are you able to see a Registered Dietician for a second opinion?5
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Is there an underlying medical condition that is behind the nurse's recommendations or is this just for general weight loss?
1% of your body weight is the general rule for how much you can healthily lose per week and 2lbs per week is the highest recommendation. So with that in mind, given your current weight, you could theoretically maintain a 1000 calorie deficit until you get closer to goal.
That said, that may or may not be sustainable for you long term, and that is what matters (unless there is a medical need to get your weight down more quickly).
I think the reason a lot of medical professionals recommend a lower than norm calorie allowance (you often hear 1200 calories being handed out as a standard) is because they don't (rightly) think that many people are logging accurately so it gives wiggle room for the inaccuracies and still allows the patient to lose weight.
Personally I would go with what you consider a sustainable rate of loss.
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1500 seems low and fairly random. How did they come up with that number?
Our stats are similar (I'm 5'7" 209 and 46 years old) and MFP has me at 1700 (sedentary) to lose one pound a week.
I would say unless there was some type of complex reasoning that got them to the 1500 number you'd be correct that you should still eat back exercise calories.
Try for 2 weeks and see how you feel. You can always add the exercise calories if your energy levels are low or take them away if you're not losing4 -
We don’t have a dedicated dietitian at our practice I get the impression 1500 Seems to be the standard nurses give out in the UK. She didn’t ask anything about exercise etc when I asked about eating exercise calories she said it’s not recommended which seems old fashioned adviceIt seems like you're losing at a healthy pace. If you don't trust the nurse are you able to see a Registered Dietician for a second opinion?
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joannemgregory wrote: »
We don’t have a dedicated dietitian at our practice I get the impression 1500 Seems to be the standard nurses give out in the UK. She didn’t ask anything about exercise etc when I asked about eating exercise calories she said it’s not recommended which seems old fashioned adviceIt seems like you're losing at a healthy pace. If you don't trust the nurse are you able to see a Registered Dietician for a second opinion?
Perhaps she doesn't really understand that MFP works on NEAT (not including any exercise) rather than TDEE (which averages your intended exercise calories across the week). It's not unusual for people to misunderstand this.6 -
I'm a bit older (56), but I use 1800 as my maintenance calories and 1500 as my reduction target. I set my activity as "sedentary" and then log even modest activity (e.g., walking the dog) because I have a tendency to overestimate my activity level otherwise.
If I swim or do something else where I burn more than about 400 calories, then I will eat back 1/3 - 1/2 of those calories, but if I burn less than 400 calories in activity (walking around the block, grocery shopping) then I will not.
Give it two weeks and see. You can always add or subtract 50 - 100 calories to your goal if things aren't working for you.3 -
1500 seems low and fairly random. How did they come up with that number?
Our stats are similar (I'm 5'7" 209 and 46 years old) and MFP has me at 1700 (sedentary) to lose one pound a week.
I would say unless there was some type of complex reasoning that got them to the 1500 number you'd be correct that you should still eat back exercise calories.
Try for 2 weeks and see how you feel. You can always add the exercise calories if your energy levels are low or take them away if you're not losing
UK recommended calories for average female is 2000cals
The 1500 cals is a 500 cal deficit to give you a lb a week loss
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joannemgregory wrote: »1500 seems low and fairly random. How did they come up with that number?
Our stats are similar (I'm 5'7" 209 and 46 years old) and MFP has me at 1700 (sedentary) to lose one pound a week.
I would say unless there was some type of complex reasoning that got them to the 1500 number you'd be correct that you should still eat back exercise calories.
Try for 2 weeks and see how you feel. You can always add the exercise calories if your energy levels are low or take them away if you're not losing
UK recommended calories for average female is 2000cals
The 1500 cals is a 500 cal deficit to give you a lb a week loss
So pretty random on her part - in that case I'd definitely go with your gut and use MFP numbers!
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joannemgregory wrote: »1500 seems low and fairly random. How did they come up with that number?
Our stats are similar (I'm 5'7" 209 and 46 years old) and MFP has me at 1700 (sedentary) to lose one pound a week.
I would say unless there was some type of complex reasoning that got them to the 1500 number you'd be correct that you should still eat back exercise calories.
Try for 2 weeks and see how you feel. You can always add the exercise calories if your energy levels are low or take them away if you're not losing
UK recommended calories for average female is 2000cals
The 1500 cals is a 500 cal deficit to give you a lb a week loss
That's for an average healthy weight female though, not overweight/obese.
I'm about 20lbs heavier than you, although I was down to 220lbs last year but with my level of activity due to walking/hiking/rowing/weight lifting, my TDEE at the time would have been around 3200 calories. So giving a blanket 1500 gross cal goal can be dangerous.2 -
Try it your way. If you gain, or aren’t losing, make adjustments. You do what is right for you. Medical professionals don’t always give good advice. I think she should have listened to your questions about the extra calories for exercising and your concern.4
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missysippy930 wrote: »Try it your way. If you gain, or aren’t losing, make adjustments. You do what is right for you.
Medical professionals don’t always give good advice.
I think she should have listened to your questions about the extra calories for exercising and your concern.
ain't that the truth!
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If the first four weeks was perfect - weight loss at slightly over a pound a week - then I would stay the course, if it was me, IF 1) I am sleeping ok (disrupted sleep happens when the deficit gets too severe); 2) I feel ok during the day 3) weight loss continues at this moderate rate 4) I continue at the same lightly active daily "non-exercise activity" level.3
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Maybe start out with a compromise: set a target of 1500 calories but eat back exercise calories. If you end up losing too fast, you can always raise your calorie target.
1500 is a cookie cutter number and not appropriate for everyone. If the nurse is familiar with MFP, she should familiarize herself with how MFP works.1 -
Based on your results (which is not enough data yet) your average deficit has been about 625.
In about 2 more weeks you should be able to tell even better but if you really believe this is creating a larger deficit for you you may need to tighten up your logging. Are you using a food scale to weigh all solid food? Are you using good database entries that you have verified for logging?
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10634517/you-dont-use-a-food-scale/p1
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1234699/logging-accurately-step-by-step-guide/p1
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I honestly don’t think you’re going to come to any harm either way. Personally, since your first 4 weeks at 1500 returned a healthy rate of loss I don’t know why you’d change that. If you’re just doing light activity at home I’d be surprised if you’re desperately hungry eating at 1500 cals/day. If you are, then take a look at the constituents of your meals, you may be able to make tweaks that offer more satisfaction than the foods that could be calorie dense choices currently.
You’ve mentioned that outside of that your only exercise is walking your dog. How much that burns is entirely dependent on the size of your dog and how far you walk! I have a Shih Tzu and due to a breed tendency for hip problems the recommended daily walk is only 20-30 mins. That’s not going to burn much so I’d never dream of logging that as exercise and eating any of it back. However, if you have a German Shepherd or some sort of Collie or Spaniel for example that walk could be a great deal longer and more vigorous!
Common sense and your numbers as you go along should dictate whether it makes sense to eat more!5 -
joannemgregory wrote: »The nurse at my GP has put me on a 1500 cal diet recommended MFP but said don’t eat your exercise calories
The first 4 weeks I lost 5lb which was perfect.
I am concerned I am not eating enough calories
My BMR is 1717 benedict Harris or 1450 Katch McCardle
I put my activity as lightly active as I am mostly at home and my only exercise atm is walking the dog.
That gave me a TDEE of 2318 cals
I have alway believed in eating exercise calories if I eat a 1500 calories diet I will be eating at a deficit of about 800 cals. I am concerned I will not be eating enough to cover my body’s base needs
My stats are 45
Height. 5 ft 7in
Weight. 220lb
Body fat 50.2%
In 4 weeks you have lost 5 lbs, which is not that fast, it sounds like a very good number actually. Maybe your TDEE is lower than you think or your logging not as good as you think. Either way, do not try to fix something that so far works prefectly.10 -
greyhoundwalker wrote: »It depends on whether you want to closely monitor the numbers or whether you’re happy just getting favourable results. I’m eating 1500 cals and not eating back exercise calories (also in the uk, 1500 was the standard recommendation back in the 1980s when I was a teenager and I’m still following that! ) it’s working fine for me, my exercise levels are the same week to week, and not hugely energetic, if it varied more it might be more helpful to adjust calories to accommodate that. Your rate of loss is fine at the moment, my guess would be if you work out your TDEE and 500 cal deficit, then add back exercise it probably wouldn’t be a great difference. Could be useful data down the line if your weight loss stalls, but your results so far seem spot on.
TDEE already includes exercise, so you wouldn't add back exercise on top of that.
MFP uses NEAT not TDEE, so it would come out about the same.
For example:- Using MFP and setting myself to Lightly Active (which accounts for non-exercise steps of around 5000 per my tracker) my calorie goal for 1 pound per week is around 1800 calories, I go rowing twice per week and strength train 1-2 times per week, so my exercise calories would add around 1100 calories per week. Which averaged across 7 days would put my gross calories at 2085.
- Using TDEECalculator.net and choosing Light Exercise, as strength training doesn't burn a lot of calories, my TDEE comes out about 2650, less 500 calories for 1 pound per week that's gross calories of 2150.
So not all that much difference. The MFP NEAT can be more beneficial than TDEE if your exercise patterns aren't consistently the same, like mine, if I am training for a race I might be rowing 4-5 times per week and doing more strength training for a couple of weeks, the week before the race I might be just doing some walking to rest.3 -
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Your initial weight loss is great (well done) and sustainable. Don't forget that as you lose weight your BMR will also reduce so if you keep the same calorie intake you will start to address your concerns naturally. You need to make sure that all of your calories are nutritious, though, obtained via good, whole foods. It does sound as if the nurse has given you cookie-cutter advice, but I don't think it's totally out of whack for you, given the information you've provided.5
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joannemgregory wrote: »The nurse at my GP has put me on a 1500 cal diet recommended MFP but said don’t eat your exercise calories
The first 4 weeks I lost 5lb which was perfect.
I am concerned I am not eating enough calories
My BMR is 1717 benedict Harris or 1450 Katch McCardle
I put my activity as lightly active as I am mostly at home and my only exercise atm is walking the dog.
That gave me a TDEE of 2318 cals
I have alway believed in eating exercise calories if I eat a 1500 calories diet I will be eating at a deficit of about 800 cals. I am concerned I will not be eating enough to cover my body’s base needs
My stats are 45
Height. 5 ft 7in
Weight. 220lb
Body fat 50.2%
You are losing at a realistic and healthy pace, so if you are happy with that rate I wouldn't change anything. I'd guess that your logging is a little off, and that is making up for the exercise calories you aren't factoring in.
If you would prefer to be very accurate and know your true numbers, I would focus on tightening up your logging: use a food scale for all solids whenever possible, double check that the entries you are choosing in the database have the correct calories, and make sure you are logging everything - beverages, condiments, cooking oils, nibbles, everything.
But regardless, you aren't losing too fast, so you don't need to eat more. If that changes, you'll want to revisit the issue though. Congrats on the great start!8 -
It could be she misunderstood how MFP is set up or what you were telling her. My nutritionist told me not to eat back my exercise calories. But, that is because she assumed I was eating all my calories and then using exercise to create the deficit. When I pointed out that I was already creating my deficit with my diet and exercise was creating extra deficit, she told met to go ahead and eat them....but maybe not all of them in case I'm overestimating calories burned or underestimating calories consumed.4
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5 lbs in 4 weeks is perfect, and shows that the nurse nailed it - the 1500 calories she recommended is producing a very healthy weight loss pace. TDEE calculators just produce estimates; you have to listen to your own body, and your body's saying "yep, this is working correctly." Also, "eat the exercise calories" is not aimed at dog walkers but people who are hitting the gym or sweating on cardio equipment. A one mile dog walk is about 50 net calories, nothing you need to concern yourself with, except insofar as if you do it every day for a month, you'll earn an extra slightly less than half pound lost. I would just do what the nurse said; it's working. Why change a winning hand?
Also, as you lose weight, your TDEE will come down. Those 5 lbs you lost, guess what, your TDEE has already come down by ~ 25 calories, as you can see for yourself on any online TDEE calculator. So even if your calorie deficit is a tiny bit more than you'd like it to be, you are already headed in the direction of the 1500 being the right number.6 -
You could go a little higher but there is there is nothing inherently wrong with that calorie level. Pay attention to your macros and eat 100g protein minimum. If you feel chronically deprived or significantly increase physical activity/exercise, increase it a little.2
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Based on your results (which is not enough data yet) your average deficit has been about 625.
In about 2 more weeks you should be able to tell even better but if you really believe this is creating a larger deficit for you you may need to tighten up your logging. Are you using a food scale to weigh all solid food? Are you using good database entries that you have verified for logging?
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10634517/you-dont-use-a-food-scale/p1
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1234699/logging-accurately-step-by-step-guide/p1
And this isn't even taking into consideration the larger initial weight people lose when starting a diet. OP may very well have her weight loss slow down now as she is probably creating less of a deficit than that. If the first two weeks weren't included it would give a better picture of her current eating deficit.0 -
joannemgregory wrote: »The nurse at my GP has put me on a 1500 cal diet recommended MFP but said don’t eat your exercise calories
The first 4 weeks I lost 5lb which was perfect.
I am concerned I am not eating enough calories
My BMR is 1717 benedict Harris or 1450 Katch McCardle
I put my activity as lightly active as I am mostly at home and my only exercise atm is walking the dog.
That gave me a TDEE of 2318 cals
I have alway believed in eating exercise calories if I eat a 1500 calories diet I will be eating at a deficit of about 800 cals. I am concerned I will not be eating enough to cover my body’s base needs
My stats are 45
Height. 5 ft 7in
Weight. 220lb
Body fat 50.2%
Sounds like the 1500 is just about right for you. If you feel that you should be eating more, there is nothing wrong with that, but know that it will slow your weight loss. Logging inaccuracies are very common and will easily slip in unnoticed. I suspect you are probably getting more than 1500 without realizing it. If you are happy with your current rate and how you are doing things right now, then stick with it. If you prefer to eat more, then do that, but expect the weight loss to slow. There's nothing wrong with losing more slowly either.4 -
It is your weight loss ... do what suits you and what you can sustain.1
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joannemgregory wrote: »1500 seems low and fairly random. How did they come up with that number?
Our stats are similar (I'm 5'7" 209 and 46 years old) and MFP has me at 1700 (sedentary) to lose one pound a week.
I would say unless there was some type of complex reasoning that got them to the 1500 number you'd be correct that you should still eat back exercise calories.
Try for 2 weeks and see how you feel. You can always add the exercise calories if your energy levels are low or take them away if you're not losing
UK recommended calories for average female is 2000cals
The 1500 cals is a 500 cal deficit to give you a lb a week loss
So, whether you're a 5'0" woman with a desk job who is trying to lose the last few vanity pounds, or a 5'10" woman working construction who needs to lose 60 pounds, the nurse is going to recommend 1500 calories a day, and tell you that if you're training for a marathon you shouldn't eat anything more to fuel those workouts? I think it's clear this advice is not very well thought out.7 -
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I personally prefer the TDEE method because that way I don't have a changing goalpost every day for hitting calories and macros.
So I work out my TDEE on the online calculator, reduce my calories by 25% and hey presto.
At least I know exactly how much to eat each day.
And also, on days that 25% is too big a deficit and i'm still very hungry (not peckish - but actually HUNGRY), then I know I can eat extra.
For example, if my maintenance is 2000, I eat at 1500. If I'm "starving to death" i'll eat more - like 1700 or 1800. I'm still under my maintenance but I'm no longer starving and the weight still goes down.
MFP is too confusing with the calories from exercise. The calories burnt are just guesstimates anyway so for me personally, just too fluid for my liking.
EDIT - Oh and as you lose weight you need to actually re-calculate your TDEE. The lower your weight gets the lower your maintenance gets too, so just remember to adjust it every so often.3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »joannemgregory wrote: »1500 seems low and fairly random. How did they come up with that number?
Our stats are similar (I'm 5'7" 209 and 46 years old) and MFP has me at 1700 (sedentary) to lose one pound a week.
I would say unless there was some type of complex reasoning that got them to the 1500 number you'd be correct that you should still eat back exercise calories.
Try for 2 weeks and see how you feel. You can always add the exercise calories if your energy levels are low or take them away if you're not losing
UK recommended calories for average female is 2000cals
The 1500 cals is a 500 cal deficit to give you a lb a week loss
So, whether you're a 5'0" woman with a desk job who is trying to lose the last few vanity pounds, or a 5'10" woman working construction who needs to lose 60 pounds, the nurse is going to recommend 1500 calories a day, and tell you that if you're training for a marathon you shouldn't eat anything more to fuel those workouts? I think it's clear this advice is not very well thought out.
Only that most probably underweight or healthy weight women, and athletes do not visit the dr to lose weight, so it is probably safe to assume that this is the recommendation for more or less average height, overweight women at a certain age range. I know it is the same in the hospital near me: they will give diabetic patients guidelines on how many calories and what carbs to eat based on groups (age, BMI, physical activity) etc. This is not fine tuned, but it is still a very good starting point, even if it is 200 calories off. It is safe to assume most people are that off in their logging anyway.2 -
As a UK nurse I'd just like to add that we get zero training in dietetics (unless you then go on to do an extra course such as diabetic training) so it's quite likely that your practice nurse was giving advice based only on her own ideas & experience. I've heard my colleagues come out with some completely off the wall ideas about dieting/weight loss & theyre experienced nurses. I'm not saying that your nurse was massively wrong but just that you can't take all advice as gospel just because it comes from a professional
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