Why we need carbs.

I would like you to quote the research where you found that carbs make people depressed please. I have sources that show otherwise but I am wait for you to show first.

Here's a study that shows higher fat diets are better for moods.

http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/BJN/BJN79_01/S0007114598000063a.pdf&code=dcabf272fda52039329e7a33e0a9df0e

I would like you to quote the research where you found that carbs make people depressed please. I have sources that show otherwise but I am wait for you to show first.

Here's a study that shows higher fat diets are better for moods.

http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/BJN/BJN79_01/S0007114598000063a.pdf&code=dcabf272fda52039329e7a33e0a9df0e

High fat doesn't mean no grain/low complex carbs.

I don't know why I bother with these debates. I honestly couldn't give a **** one way or the other about carbs. I low carb because wheat makes me feel grotty and I don't like rice or potatoes, but it's accidental. I don't think anyone should be giving blanket statements one way or the other on this, as there are plenty of people who are healthier on higher carb, whole grain diets, and plenty who are healthier on high fat/protein ones. I think body type has a lot to do with it.

I would like you to quote the research where you found that carbs make people depressed please. I have sources that show otherwise but I am wait for you to show first.

Here's a study that shows higher fat diets are better for moods.

http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/BJN/BJN79_01/S0007114598000063a.pdf&code=dcabf272fda52039329e7a33e0a9df0e

High fat doesn't mean no grain/low complex carbs.

I don't know why I bother with these debates. I honestly couldn't give a **** one way or the other about carbs. I low carb because wheat makes me feel grotty and I don't like rice or potatoes, but it's accidental. I don't think anyone should be giving blanket statements one way or the other on this, as there are plenty of people who are healthier on higher carb, whole grain diets, and plenty who are healthier on high fat/protein ones. I think body type has a lot to do with it.

I agree that different diets for each individual, but I'm getting tired of blanket statements as well.

File not available. [S0007114598000063a.pdf].

Hmmm... that's weird. I found it on pubmed as well.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9505799

I'll try to see if I can find another link to the actual study.

Edit: First link
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Alterations+in+mood+after+changing+to+a+low-fat+diet.&hl=en&as_sdt=1,44&as_sdtp=on

i ate simple carbs last night right before bed. guess whos still gaining weight at the rate he wants...... me.

i ate simple carbs last night right before bed. guess whos still gaining weight at the rate he wants...... me.

YUP! that would do it!

oh hai gawjuss. gaining weight is my goal. feels amazing to not be scared of carbs.

Carbs are THE only way I survive a hangover.

I try no longer to get involved with a low-carb, low-fat argument in the forums. Saying that, I ask that everyone listen to the podcast interview by Dr. John McDougall (low-fat) with Dr. Robert Atkin (low carb) because people who get involved cannot seem to open their mind to other possibilities. That's fine, but then there is no sense talking to myself, so I find the conversation useless. However, I do see some people on this thread that are open to listen to "the other side."

http://www.drmcdougall.com/mcdougallcast/p.php?file=2007-05-03_01_track_1.mp3

Atkins and McDougall both agree that sugar and refined carbs (processed, box food) is very bad for overweight or people with chronic disease. He does not bash complex carbs and in his original book, writes that people should eat complex carbs.

It is interesting that after Atkins, comes Lustig and Taubes who spout the same message about sugar.

taem, have you ever seen Dr. Joel Fuhrman's 3-steps to incredible health? I thought it was interesting. It's not going to stop me from eating a lot of fresh cut meat, but interesting nonetheless.

I have respect for McDougal, Atkins and Fuhrman. Taubes is a quack though.... Actually, I take that back. Isn't that term reserved for wanna-be doctors? So I guess you have to be a doctor first instead of a journalist who specializes in sensationalism and controversial topics to be called a quack.

I have no problems with "clean" sources of food, including meat. I have a problem with our tainted food supply, I guess that has become my new stance on diet. Everything else becomes our problem with abusing food (over eating, not eating, emotional eating etc.)

Taubes did the world a favor and say to us we need to look at the research with "new" eyes, and so I do acknowledge him for that. Does he have the clinical experience like Atkins, McDougall, Furhman? If I were to trust my diet to someone, it would have to be to someone who has clinical trial experience, I think we can all agree to that!

I haven't seen Furhman's presentation yet sorry. I have his book, Eat to Live which I will read after Taubes, Campbell, but I am still stuck on Lisle's Pleasure Trap. I really think Paelo dieters will really find Lisle interesting as he talks about nature and our body's nervous system and the artificial stimulants that affect it, as well as the motivational triad. He is a vegetarian but I think secretly think/assume that is because he won't kill animals. If you are interested, I can send you a few of his lectures.

No room to call Taubes anything until you have read his research. He is a science journalist. You don't have to be a scientist to understand science.

I've read his research. I've also seen the way that he ignores the overwhelming amount of research that disputes the entire premise of his argument.

The premise of Taube's argument (calories don't matter, insulin response does) is based on his assumption that obese people consume a similar amount of calories as normal sized people....ergo, obesity was caused by something else. The source for this assumption? A 1980 report suggesting that the obese ate the same number of calories as the lean. Unfortunately, the data in this 1980 report was wrong. But that didn't matter to Taubes. He had his hypothesis and he was determined to cherry-pick his research to support this hypothesis. After all, without his hypothesis, he wouldn't have a book to write.

Never mind the fact that study after study over the past 30 years shows that the obese systematically under-report their food intake (by up to 30-50%) and over-report their activity (by about the same). So when they say they are only eating 1800 calories per day, they may be eating 2400-3600 calories per day. And their activity isn’t nearly what they think.

And when you put those same folks in controlled metabolic ward conditions and control their food intake and/or activity output…voila, the energy balance equation holds. It’s only when you believe the (incorrect) self-reported data that it doesn’t.

The obese aren't doing this on purpose. Most people simply suck at knowing how much they are actually eating. Leave them to self-report it and they almost always screw it up.

If that is the type of research that works for you, then more power to you. I would have trouble blindly accepting those types of false premises.

Heck, even the most hard-core low carbers, like Mark Sisson as well as the current Atkins followers preach that calories DO MATTER. There are good low-carbes, and there are the quacks. If you want to believe Taubes and his assertion that calories do not matter, go right ahead. :laugh:

Health experts think that the first law is relevant to why we get fat because they say to themselves and then to us, as the The New York Times did, “Those who consume more calories than they expend in energy will gain weight.” This is true. It has to be. To get fatter and heavier, we have to overeat. We have to consume more calories than we expend. That’s a given. But thermodynamics tells us nothing about why this happens, why we consume more calories than we expend. It only says that if we do, we will get heavier, and if we get heavier, then we did.

Taubes, Gary (2010-12-28). Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It (p. 74). Knopf. Kindle Edition.

Overeating means we’re consuming more energy than we’re expending. It says the same thing in a different way. Neither happens to answer the question why. Why do we take in more energy than we expend? Why do we overeat? Why do we get fatter?*

Taubes, Gary (2010-12-28). Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It (p. 75). Knopf. Kindle Edition. Taubes, Gary (2010-12-28). Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It (p. 74). Knopf. Kindle Edition.

Is this thread still going on?

I just wanted to say that I had bacon and eggs for breakfast and was not hungry until lunch. For lunch I had jerk chicken (lean breast), kaluah pork, bbq short ribs, coconut curry vegetables, and a salad, yum!

Before I started low carb I would've had 1 or 2 snacks (more carbs) between breakfast and lunch and would be tired. I have so much energy right now that I feel like knocking down walls!!

I had a glass of chocolate soy milk for breakfast (7 a.m.) and wasn't hungry till lunch (noon). But I can't see how that, or your eggs and bacon, means anything about low carb vs not low carb.