Meatless The Better

It depends on what you eat. Eating a diet high in nutritious plants is generally considered good for long term health. You can eat "plant based" and still eat low nutrition food though. So it is about what you eat, and not simply that it is plant based.

As far as "diseases", I am not sure what you mean. If you are talking about food based illnesses, then actually most of them come from fruits and vegetables, not meat or dairy. If you are talking about long term illness risk, there is some correlation, but not definitive causation, between red meat intake and long term colon cancer risk.

One benefit to a plant based diet is that it is better and more sustainable for the environment. Meat takes a lot more energy and resources to produce than plant based foods do, and is a big driver of climate change.

But in terms of health, it's not conclusively established that going plant based is better for you, as long as you get ample fruits and vegetables in a diet that's till contains meat and dairy.

Before I comment on your post, let me mention that I've been vegetarian for 45+ years . . . yes, since 1974.

worldtraveller321 wrote: »

What u all think. Going to less meat and more of plant based diet better in every way. Seems most disease comes from meat and dairy?

No, most disease does not come from meat and dairy. The so-called "documentaries" and blogs that say that are inaccurate: They have an agenda, and are trying to manipulate you.

Plant foods are good for us, and the average person eats way too few of them for the best nutrition and health results. Most people would benefit if they increased veggie & fruit intake. To keep calories at a healthy level, some might need to reduce the amount of meat and dairy they eat, if the current amount is excessive for nutritional needs. But meat and dairy can be very useful components of a healthy diet.

We can get most of our needed proteins from grains and non meat things. Am i right on this?

We can, but some nutrients, such as vitamin B12, will need to be supplemented. That sooner is a strong hint that humans didn't evolve to thrive best on all and only plants.

should we all be avoiding meat?

No, not necessarily.

Personally, I think all of us well-off (in global terms) first-world-ers are unavoidably little moving bundles of global harm: Environmental damage, human exploitation, animal exploitation, more. Nice people do things to mitigate that harm, and it makes sense to start with the things that are easiest for us as individuals. There's no way to completely fix all the harm done on our behalf, sadly.

Meat and dairy are nutritionally useful. Fully plant based eating makes it very slightly more difficult to get all necessary nutrients, though it's entirely possible to do so.

Further, plant-based eating is slightly more complicated socially. For example, you might need to navigate a dinner invitation to your meat-loving new boss's house: Do-able (I've done the like), but awkward.

It can even limit your choices of life partner: I've met nice people's who don't want to date someone who doesn't eat meat. (It may sound bad, but one, for example, was a meat-lover who likes to express caring via cooking, and to him, meat is a valued gift).

There are also issues with travel in very meat-centric areas.

None of these are insurmountable, of course. Just minor bumps in the road.

As well considering the governments want us to all eat meat and dairy.

They also want us eating plenty of fruits and veggies and grains. I think the UK government's recommendation may even have gone up to 10 fruit/veggie servings daily . . . pretty sure it was under consideration.

It's true, though: It's all part of a government conspiracy . . . a conspiracy to make us healthier.

Both fully plant-based and omnivorous (meat containing) diets can be healthy or unhealthy. There are vegan junk foods, and healthy meats.

Wherever you're currently getting your information: Consider finding more accurate, balanced sources.

OP, you can go meatless if it works for you.

I'm fine with meat and dairy. Neither are the causes of the diseases I have.

psuLemon wrote: »

Hmm.. the evidence supports that dairy is quite good. In fact, it reduces all cause mortality, is protective against most cancers and supports stronger bodies... soo dairy = great.

And then as it relates to meat. Our bodies are designed to eat meat. Meat and availability of amino acids is the reason our brains are developed. So common sense actually would suggest that meat is beneficial given that since our ancestors have been consuming it for thousands of years and hasn't killed us off.

What is bad for us? Ultra-processed foods, obesity and lack of exercise.


ETA: Also take into consideration that our bodies are super adaptive and thrive in a variety of environments. So, it would probably not be good to believe that we would benefit from only one way of eating. My metabolic markers are very good and I eat a very heavy meat and dairy based diet. And given my goals and personal taste, I could never be plant based. But I do love a lot of plant foods (nuts, avocado, a variety of veggies).

That's a pretty big misrepresentation of the dairy study. Even the graphic you shared says so in it "Risk of cancer was similar between dairy consumers and people who excluded it". That a particular subset had a lower mortality risk is statistical noise, not indicative of anything. Significant research has been done lately to show that dairy doesn't raise mortality risk. So limits recommended on dairy as particularly saturated fats from dairy may be outdated. But that means "dairy = not bad". Not that "dairy= great"

As far as plant-based vs. meat based diets, the majority of the research has come out on the side that plant based diets have better overall long term mortality rates than meat heavy diets. Here's an example: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.119.012865.

Now "better long term mortality rates" is not the same thing as "you can't be healthy if you eat meat". You certainly can. But I don't think we should just pretend the research out there doesn't exist just because meat is super tasty.

Ultimately the biggest influence on long term mortality is weight and obesity. So if a meat based diet makes it easier for someone to maintain a healthy weight than a plant based diet, that is healthier for them. Better to be a normal weight meat eater than an obese vegan.

I am a meat eater. Eating meat has helped me keep to my calorie goal. I went pescetarian a few years ago during lent and before I was watching calories and it didn't make me healthier. I was still eating high calorie, non-nutritious foods. So getting my weight under control while eating meat has been good for me. But just because I eat and like meat doesn't mean I don't recognize that all else being equal and if I felt like I could do it, a plant based diet would have certain long term health advantages.

Oh the joys of of divisive threads.

I eat meat, and seafood, and produce, and small amounts of dairy. Some weeks I eat little to no meat, other times I eat more meat. I have various other dietary habits that I would assume next to no one here would care about as well. I don't eat the way I do because I think that it's healthier, rather because I like a variety of foods and because I really don't enjoy the vast majority of dairy products (my stomach also isn't a fan).

I also prefer eating seasonally and try to eat locally for the most part. That said, I'm not about to call someone out every time I read a post about eating fresh strawberries in November despite that person living in a place where berries clearly aren't growing in November.

I feel like the big deal is that a lot of meat-focused eaters don't eat nearly as many veggies and fruits as reasonable evidence suggests is optimal. (Yes, some do; and all could. And some "plant based" eaters don't get enough, either, amazingly.)

So, the issue is more that many people would do better if they simply ate more actual vegetables and fruits (and probably grains as well). If that means eating a bit less meat to make calorie room for the veggies/fruits (which are usually not calorie dense, BTW), and they can do so and still get enough protein, that should (IMO) provide most of the benefit.

I feel like this topic gets really polarized between "plant based" and "meat eating" when - face it - even the very conservative mainstream authorities are recommending a 5 to even 10 serving minimum of veggies/fruits daily for everyone, and the majority of people (no matter their eating style) aren't getting that much.

If you are getting in those veggie/fruit servings - whether you eat meat or tofu/tempeh/seitan/whatever-plant-protein alongside - yay, you! You're probably doing fine.

It's more that plant foods are really good for you, and less that meat/dairy/fish (as a generality) is bad for you.

Just my (vegetarian) opinion, though.