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Thoughts on Beyond Burger and other fake meat

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  • janejellyrolljanejellyroll Member Posts: 24,313 Member Member Posts: 24,313 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    i understand what you all are saying but I can't really agree with it.
    i wouldn't wear fake leather or fake fur either if i were a vegan but whatever if it works for you.

    What do you mean by 'I can't agree with it'? You think we're wrong about our own tastes, reasons and decisions?

    i'm saying your reasoning doesn't make sense to me. but again, whatever works for you

    If you were vegan would you quit: eating jello, using shampoo and conditioners, using paintbrushes, doing your makeup, and many other products just because they usually contain non-vegan ingredients? Using a synthetic paint brush should not really be an issue for a vegan, but you're saying it should. How does that make sense?

    Yes, you explained well why mbaker's argument is one that I don't so much disagree with, but just don't follow at all. Or why would the same argument not mean that vegans should avoid soy milk, as that is largely used because it somewhat shares the taste and mouthfeel and use of milk, and also has a similar protein content?

    I think kimny's answer helped me somewhat -- the line of thought must be that someone eating a plant-based product intended to taste like beef is mimicking the experience of "eating cow." Instead, I think they are enjoying an experience of eating a tasty food that is usually (but not necessarily) made from beef. And I would add that I don't think most meat eaters enjoy a burger because it is the experience of "eating cow." I think they mostly don't think much about where the food comes from and unless they are specifically eating food they hunted for themselves aren't likely to be thinking about the animal much at all, more the taste. They simply are okay with that taste (and the nutrients it comes with) being provided by the animal.

    If that's the contention, I extremely don't get it. Would a person who was raised vegan be okay, then, to eat beyond burgers, but someone that knows eating cows is doing something wrong having one? If not, the argument seems like there's an assumed spiritual component to veganism? Pretty sure nonspiritual veganism exists.

    This is such an interesting observation. If the "wrongness" of a vegan eating a meat substitute comes from experiencing the similarity to animal-based meat, then a vegan who is unable to appreciate the similarity wouldn't be doing anything "wrong."

    However, if the wrongness comes from *others* observing the behavior, then it would only be wrong if those observing you recognized that it was similar to meat. By this standard, any vegan eating any kind of ambigious or potentially misclassified food is doing something wrong.

    If I go to Whole Foods and buy a vegan chocolate chip cookie and then walk down the street eating it, someone I pass may see me and assume it is a standard cookie. I have now transgressed as I am *appearing* to engage in the behavior of consuming animal products. This expectation would result in most vegans consuming food privately unless it is clearly labelled or obviously a non-animal product.

    So level 5 vegans eat nothing that cast a shadow, but level 6 vegans eat everything in shadows?

    :D
  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,467 Member Member Posts: 5,467 Member
    lrober11 wrote: »
    I feel like we make everything complicated in this country. The BEST diet for you (unless you have very specific health concerns that REQUIRE you to eliminate certain foods) are a REAL, WHOLE FOODS DIET. The less processed the better... that goes for everything including food substitutes like the beyond meat burgers. Getting back to our basics- fruit, vegetables, and proteins consisting of fish, meat, poultry is what's needed. It's that simple. I lost 20 lbs 2 years ago before I was pregnant. Hardly ever exercised... literally just eliminated almost anything processed from my diet including *gasp* breads and vegetable oils, unless it was a special occasion that I felt I wanted to eat something at a restaurant or what have you. Didn't feel deprived. Didn't have to count macros. My taste buds literally changed. Inflammation went down, bloating gone, skin issues gone. It was eye opening. I switched to wild caught fish, grassfed or pasture raised meats. You literally cannot go wrong getting back to our primal, basics. If you want some hard truth on a lot of these issues I love the approach from integrative dietician Ali Miller, RD. It will change how you view our food.

    She offers cancer treatment as a service on her website. Interesting that an RD is moonlighting as an oncologist.

    "With food-as-medicine approaches, we can aggressively fight tumor growth" followed by this "Food-as-medicine tip": "Try sauteeing broccoli with garlic."

    Now I am a huge broccoli fan, but even I think that's promising a bit too much.

    https://www.alimillerrd.com/treatments/cancer/

    I'm skeptical about the benefits of a lifestyle where you hardly ever exercise. What's aspirational about avoiding physical activity? With my diet which includes *gasp* the occasional Beyond Burger, I actually look forward to exercise and do it frequently. Inflammation, bloating, and skin issues . . . lots of people don't have those (although I'm glad that yours are gone). So if you asked me to choose between my current life with bread and running and skin that's pretty darn good and some "primal" life where I have to believe that broccoli is a cancer treatment . . . well, I've already chosen.

    Particularly from someone touting the benefits of a 'primal' lifestyle...
    lrober11 wrote: »
    I feel like we make everything complicated in this country. The BEST diet for you (unless you have very specific health concerns that REQUIRE you to eliminate certain foods) are a REAL, WHOLE FOODS DIET. The less processed the better... that goes for everything including food substitutes like the beyond meat burgers. Getting back to our basics- fruit, vegetables, and proteins consisting of fish, meat, poultry is what's needed. It's that simple. I lost 20 lbs 2 years ago before I was pregnant. Hardly ever exercised... literally just eliminated almost anything processed from my diet including *gasp* breads and vegetable oils, unless it was a special occasion that I felt I wanted to eat something at a restaurant or what have you. Didn't feel deprived. Didn't have to count macros. My taste buds literally changed. Inflammation went down, bloating gone, skin issues gone. It was eye opening. I switched to wild caught fish, grassfed or pasture raised meats. You literally cannot go wrong getting back to our primal, basics. If you want some hard truth on a lot of these issues I love the approach from integrative dietician Ali Miller, RD. It will change how you view our food.

    Rarely have I found a post I disagree with so much, and yet felt so little interest in bothering with presenting counter factuals.
    At most I feel like just bring up the cliched life expectancy of our primal ancestors as died at the ripe old age of found a delicious spot of tuberculosis infected carrion.

    Yep, me too.
  • snickerscharliesnickerscharlie Member Posts: 8,570 Member Member Posts: 8,570 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Why is less processed always better?

    It's the thread-reboot point . . . every four or five pages someone new will come in, read the first post, and proceed to blow our minds with the nutritional wisdom they assume was previously unstated.

    This makes perfect sense. Thanks!
    edited February 20
  • lrober11lrober11 Member Posts: 4 Member Member Posts: 4 Member
    I have no idea how to directly respond to people on here but to the comment above, I hardly exercised because I did not have the time between work full time and school. Cancelled my gym membership & just spent time outside walking a few times a week to get some cardio in.

    Before that I spent 2 years working out religiously while trying to "eat healthy" but ate way too much processed food. I saw noooo results until I changed my diet to mostly Whole Foods. I think it's an 80/20 concept here
  • lrober11lrober11 Member Posts: 4 Member Member Posts: 4 Member
    I was using my MFP my calories were literally the same lol.
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »

    You saw results because you created a calorie deficit when you switched to more whole foods.

  • Carlos_421Carlos_421 Member Posts: 5,083 Member Member Posts: 5,083 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Why is less processed always better?

    It's the thread-reboot point . . . every four or five pages someone new will come in, read the first post, and proceed to blow our minds with the nutritional wisdom they assume was previously unstated.

    Does that mean this thread is becoming reprocessed, and thus absolutely must be becoming worse for health?

    100%
  • PAPYRUS3PAPYRUS3 Member Posts: 7,858 Member Member Posts: 7,858 Member
    “If it came from a plant, eat it; if it was made in a plant, don't. ”

    ― Michael Pollan
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