Coronavirus prep
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I'm about to brave a trip to the grocery store. I read a comment elsewhere that if you can still afford to buy not-the-cheapest foodstuffs, you should, and leave the cheapest things for those who can afford nothing else. The problem is my job situation is not 100% clear right now. My anxiety level is 12/10.
@GaleHawkins I live on the other end of the state from you. It does look like Nashville has become the hotspot for the region with 100+ cases now.
Yes Nashville was an early spot because of airport travelers since it is an international airport. I was stressed because the 150 exposed at that church in Murray but it turned out the visitor from Nashville apparently pass it to a hospital employee is how the risk shot up for staff and patients there. That case would have happened even if the visitor had not put that 150 people at risk. I was concerned my exposure could lead me to passing it to the wife then I learned it was already inside the hospital so I just stopped worrying because the risk is everywhere I we go now. I have been asked to pick up some eggs so I may stop at Walmart after getting the wife to work and the risk factor entered my mind. Food, medicine and farm stores are about all that is open but that works for me. It will bothers me that TN is proceeding like it was 21 Mar 2019. The bankruptcies coming are going to be a game changer for years to come staying alive is what is on everyone's mind. Our daughter did the fall semester in Germany. I would have been a basket case if it had been this semester.8 -
AACK!!! my stubborn 94-year-old mom went out grocery shopping this morning! "I had to go, I don't want to starve"
Me "We're ordering food to be delivered to you"
Mom "Everyone was wearing masks"
DH "Did you?"
Mom "No, I put it on and it was uncomfortable"
DH "I'm going to come and nail your feet to the floor!"
Mom "I have a strong immune system. When Aunt ____ and Uncle ____ got scarlet fever, measles, diphtheria, I didn't get them"
DH "That was 85 years ago!"
and "Did you clean all your groceries?"
Mom "Yes"
DH "Did you wash your hands?"
Mom "I always wash my hands"
Mom repeats insistence that she has a strong immune system
DH repeats how the oldest get the sickest, and those with comorbidities, and that the medical system will get overloaded
SIGH26 -
So it seems to me some concepts are getting conflated and I'd love to get other people's opinions. This is my understanding:
Social distancing and community self quarantine are two very different things.
Social distancing is not meant to keep everyone from getting the virus, just to slow down transmission so that the health care system can keep up. This doesn't require everyone to stay locked in their homes, just avoid crowds, give others a 6 ft distance, and practice correct hygienic practices. Quarantine would only be necessary for those who are sick to avoid creating a cluster, or possibly for those in the vulnerable demographic to protect themselves. This would be appropriate in places where their are few or a manageable number of cases requiring intensive care.
Community self quarantine is meant to keep a place that is already a cluster or about to become one from completely overwhelming the healthcare system. It's meant to try to keep anyone else from getting sick until the system can catch up with the patients already taxing it.
I honestly don't think it's remotely feasible for the entire planet to self quarantine until there's a vaccine or cure. That could literally take years. But I think the focus right now on leaning more towards as "quarantined" as possible is to allow some time for the medical community to get its head around the behavior of covid-19 and understand why the most vulnerable are vulnerable, why it behaves the way it does, so it can more effectively treat those vulnerable people and keep them from dying or becoming disabled. I'd guess most of us will eventually come in contact with this thing, just hopefully after it's better understood.
As I said, that is just my understanding and I'm not a pro at anything remotely useful for dealing with infectious disease. If I'm misunderstanding, please feel free to correct.
Anyhoo, still no cases in my county and only single digits in surrounding counties. The VA Dept of health says they have enough test for those with multiple symptoms, but not for widespread testing just for statistical or preventive purposes. I work for a local TV station and am running in twice a week to make sure the news team has everything they need on site, then getting the heck out. The downtown parking garage was pretty empty, a lot less pedestrians, most govt offices closed to the public at least.10 -
AACK!!! my stubborn 94-year-old mom went out grocery shopping this morning! "I had to go, I don't want to starve"
Me "We're ordering food to be delivered to you"
Mom "Everyone was wearing masks"
DH "Did you?"
Mom "No, I put it on and it was uncomfortable"
DH "I'm going to come and nail your feet to the floor!"
Mom "I have a strong immune system. When Aunt ____ and Uncle ____ got scarlet fever, measles, diphtheria, I didn't get them"
DH "That was 85 years ago!"
and "Did you clean all your groceries?"
Mom "Yes"
DH "Did you wash your hands?"
Mom "I always wash my hands"
Mom repeats insistence that she has a strong immune system
DH repeats how the oldest get the sickest, and those with comorbidities, and that the medical system will get overloaded
SIGH
I think we can all agree to be 94 and doing your own shopping plus escaping scarlet fever and diphtheria indicates a strong immune system.
Think sick seems to be the best way to get sick. Yesterday I setting at McDonald's eating lunch with my window down when a very senior couple pulled in a few spaces down from me (they must to have heard about social distancing). They figured something had changed and the guy asked me if they were open. I had food in my hand and said yes but you have to drive through to get it and they left. Later they were back in the parking lot eating. People like to get out. As soon as things dry up some I am going to get on the tractor and do some field mowing the way things are growing.3 -
Are people still flying??? I just saw a post on FB from a former daycare family that are in Aruba.
They must've flown out of Logan and maybe one other airport, IDK. But....?? 1 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
Here's what I found:rheddmobile wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »My sister had worked at Lowe's for over 5 years until she got fired this past summer. She took a job with Krogers, which now may be seen as a blessing in disguise - Krogers is considered essential, so her job should be safe. Lowe's, on the other hand, would likely have laid her off.
Does Lowes not count as essential? What happens if there’s a wiring issue or the water heater breaks or the door falls off the hinges? I can think of about fifteen things that would make it impossible to keep sheltering in place that could go wrong with no hardware store.
From HuffPost: While the list may vary according to local concerns and the nature of a given event, disaster or pandemic, here is a general idea of what’s considered “essential” in emergencies, according to various governments, including San Francisco, Miami, New York state and Miami-Dade County:
• Gas stations, auto supply stores, auto repair shops and related facilities
• Pharmacies
• Grocery stores, farmers markets, food banks and convenience stores
• Liquor stores
• Restaurants (only for delivery, takeout and drive-thru)
• Hardware stores and plumbers
• Contractors and other tradesmen, appliance repair personnel
• Exterminators and other service providers
• Landscape and pool care businesses, including residential landscape and pool care
• Construction sites and engineering and architecture firms
• Banks and related financial institutions including insurance and accounting services
• Phone and computer sellers
• Community benefit organizations on a case-by-case basis
• Laundromats, dry cleaners and laundry service providers
• Healthcare providers, hospitals, clinics and healthcare operations including research and laboratory services, medical wholesale and distribution, and dentists
• Businesses that provide shelter and/or social services
• Newspapers, television, radio and other media outlets
• Businesses offering mailing and shipping services, including post office boxes
• Airlines, taxis and other private transportation providers
• Home-based care for seniors, adults or children
• Assisted living facilities, nursing homes, adult day care centers and senior facilities
• Pet supply stores
• Veterinary offices
• Police stations
• Fire stations
• Building code enforcement
• Jails
• Courts
• Garbage/sanitation and recycling services
• Public transportation (Muni, BART, subways)
• Utilities (water, power and gas, telecommunications)
• Certain city, county, state and federal offices
• Funeral homes, crematoriums and cemeteries
• Maintenance staff, cleaners, janitors and doormen
• Manufacturing including food processing, chemical, pharmaceutical, agricultural, paper products, safety and sanitary products
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/what-are-essential-services-jobs-185047320.html
Landscape and pool care?
Right? This goes back to my earlier point about partial shutdowns. All these things that are considered "essential" and are obviously not essential are destroying the benefit.
Courts are another good example. I know that there are some legal issues that truly cannot wait, but simple lawsuits, minor things like traffic tickets, etc. can all be re-scheduled to a later date. Many courts have judges that are basically on call for situations like where something just cannot wait, so a judge is available nights/weekends anyway. That may be as simple as the police go to his/her house and get a signed warrant or order of some sort. I'm not advocating that people shouldn't be afforded their day in court for situations where normally people have a right to defend themselves in a public trial, but those types of things can be delayed often.
In the county I live in jury duty is for 90 days. I’ve been on a stint from 1/2/20 to 3/31/20. We call in to see if we have to report. Yesterday, I called in to see if I have to report for the week of 3/24/20 - 3/31/20. Because of the virus, it’s been cancelled.
That reminds me... my mom has jury duty now also. And she is older (higher risk) plus lives with someone known to have been exposed (sister living with her had a co-worker/friend test positive) and is waiting to see if any symptoms develop. Plus my other pregnant sister is a nurse and lives with them also. I should ask her about what they are doing for potential jurors right now... trials can wait for now.
I work for one of the District Courts in NM. We're still open, but all jury trials have been postponed as well as other court clinics and things of this nature that would bring a lot of people together at one. I would imagine this is the case most places. We still have to have staff on hand though...much of what comes through the court is e-filed and that can back up very quickly. Also, the courts here run pre-trial services which is monitoring those awaiting trial who are deemed not enough of a threat to put in jail awaiting trial...but they are monitored by GPS by certain court staff and have to do check ins and in many cases, regular drug testing. As for now, anyone who has the capability of working from home is and starting next week the clerks office will be running a skeleton crew of 3 in the office and rotating those shifts.
There is also a constitutional component as to why courts are "essential"...because our state constitution says they are and they must remain open.3 -
I went for a walk, including past my church (which is open for private prayer during specific hours, but not at the particular time I went by) and through part of my local shopping district (lots of little local shops). I kind of just wanted to see if the shops had any signs about whether they'd be open once the "stay at home" order goes into effect or anything about delivery.
My local grocery (meat market) is going to be open with limits on how many can come in and is asking that non-elderly/vulnerable don't come during the first two hours of each day. The pet food store is doing curbside pickup (although this is a walking district more than a driving one). Some stores had already shut down.
Neighborhood sidewalks were largely empty, although some people were out walking dogs or just walking. I passed a few buses that had just a tiny number of people in them. A few people were out running and a couple of people were biking, and I saw a father outside playing with his small child.4 -
One other reason why liquor sales are considered "essential": the taxes provide a lot of the income to both state and federal governments in the US.13
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One other reason why liquor sales are considered "essential": the taxes provide a lot of the income to both state and federal governments in the US.
Good point.
At least here liquor sales are often at grocery stores anyway, or can be done through delivery services (including Instacart).
I think people weren't sure whether they would be considered "essential" here, though, as a lot of the crazy buying I saw in the grocery store yesterday was booze, and when I was at Best Buy on Thursday afternoon I noticed that the traffic at the Binny's was nuts.2 -
One other reason why liquor sales are considered "essential": the taxes provide a lot of the income to both state and federal governments in the US.
Good point.
At least here liquor sales are often at grocery stores anyway, or can be done through delivery services (including Instacart).
I think people weren't sure whether they would be considered "essential" here, though, as a lot of the crazy buying I saw in the grocery store yesterday was booze, and when I was at Best Buy on Thursday afternoon I noticed that the traffic at the Binny's was nuts.
I will neither confirm nor deny the ingredients for a Bloody Mary became 'essentials' during my Kroger run today.13 -
One other reason why liquor sales are considered "essential": the taxes provide a lot of the income to both state and federal governments in the US.
Good point.
At least here liquor sales are often at grocery stores anyway, or can be done through delivery services (including Instacart).
I think people weren't sure whether they would be considered "essential" here, though, as a lot of the crazy buying I saw in the grocery store yesterday was booze, and when I was at Best Buy on Thursday afternoon I noticed that the traffic at the Binny's was nuts.
I will neither confirm nor deny the ingredients for a Bloody Mary became 'essentials' during my Kroger run today.
Better than a Typhoid Mary /darkhumor7 -
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AACK!!! my stubborn 94-year-old mom went out grocery shopping this morning! "I had to go, I don't want to starve"
Me "We're ordering food to be delivered to you"
Mom "Everyone was wearing masks"
DH "Did you?"
Mom "No, I put it on and it was uncomfortable"
DH "I'm going to come and nail your feet to the floor!"
Mom "I have a strong immune system. When Aunt ____ and Uncle ____ got scarlet fever, measles, diphtheria, I didn't get them"
DH "That was 85 years ago!"
and "Did you clean all your groceries?"
Mom "Yes"
DH "Did you wash your hands?"
Mom "I always wash my hands"
Mom repeats insistence that she has a strong immune system
DH repeats how the oldest get the sickest, and those with comorbidities, and that the medical system will get overloaded
SIGH
First of all, no one has a good immune system when faced with a novel virus. That’s what makes it so scary. Having a good immune system is like having a bunch of cops on patrol watching for gang members wearing gang colors and behaving suspiciously. Having a vaccine is like the police have a photo of the perpetrators and a warrant for their arrest. But a novel virus is dressed like a nice normal housewife going about her business until she starts ganking people.
Second, in the case of COVID-19 in particular, those with strong immune systems don’t do so well, because one of the major ways it kills is by cytokine storm. A cytokine storm happens when your immune system says, “This isn’t working, BURN EVERYTHING DOWN!” and starts attacking healthy cells. That’s thought to be the reason babies rarely get serious cases, their immune systems are too naive to create a cytokine storm.17 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
Here's what I found:rheddmobile wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »My sister had worked at Lowe's for over 5 years until she got fired this past summer. She took a job with Krogers, which now may be seen as a blessing in disguise - Krogers is considered essential, so her job should be safe. Lowe's, on the other hand, would likely have laid her off.
Does Lowes not count as essential? What happens if there’s a wiring issue or the water heater breaks or the door falls off the hinges? I can think of about fifteen things that would make it impossible to keep sheltering in place that could go wrong with no hardware store.
From HuffPost: While the list may vary according to local concerns and the nature of a given event, disaster or pandemic, here is a general idea of what’s considered “essential” in emergencies, according to various governments, including San Francisco, Miami, New York state and Miami-Dade County:
• Gas stations, auto supply stores, auto repair shops and related facilities
• Pharmacies
• Grocery stores, farmers markets, food banks and convenience stores
• Liquor stores
• Restaurants (only for delivery, takeout and drive-thru)
• Hardware stores and plumbers
• Contractors and other tradesmen, appliance repair personnel
• Exterminators and other service providers
• Landscape and pool care businesses, including residential landscape and pool care
• Construction sites and engineering and architecture firms
• Banks and related financial institutions including insurance and accounting services
• Phone and computer sellers
• Community benefit organizations on a case-by-case basis
• Laundromats, dry cleaners and laundry service providers
• Healthcare providers, hospitals, clinics and healthcare operations including research and laboratory services, medical wholesale and distribution, and dentists
• Businesses that provide shelter and/or social services
• Newspapers, television, radio and other media outlets
• Businesses offering mailing and shipping services, including post office boxes
• Airlines, taxis and other private transportation providers
• Home-based care for seniors, adults or children
• Assisted living facilities, nursing homes, adult day care centers and senior facilities
• Pet supply stores
• Veterinary offices
• Police stations
• Fire stations
• Building code enforcement
• Jails
• Courts
• Garbage/sanitation and recycling services
• Public transportation (Muni, BART, subways)
• Utilities (water, power and gas, telecommunications)
• Certain city, county, state and federal offices
• Funeral homes, crematoriums and cemeteries
• Maintenance staff, cleaners, janitors and doormen
• Manufacturing including food processing, chemical, pharmaceutical, agricultural, paper products, safety and sanitary products
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/what-are-essential-services-jobs-185047320.html
Landscape and pool care?
Right? This goes back to my earlier point about partial shutdowns. All these things that are considered "essential" and are obviously not essential are destroying the benefit.
Courts are another good example. I know that there are some legal issues that truly cannot wait, but simple lawsuits, minor things like traffic tickets, etc. can all be re-scheduled to a later date. Many courts have judges that are basically on call for situations like where something just cannot wait, so a judge is available nights/weekends anyway. That may be as simple as the police go to his/her house and get a signed warrant or order of some sort. I'm not advocating that people shouldn't be afforded their day in court for situations where normally people have a right to defend themselves in a public trial, but those types of things can be delayed often.
In the county I live in jury duty is for 90 days. I’ve been on a stint from 1/2/20 to 3/31/20. We call in to see if we have to report. Yesterday, I called in to see if I have to report for the week of 3/24/20 - 3/31/20. Because of the virus, it’s been cancelled.
That reminds me... my mom has jury duty now also. And she is older (higher risk) plus lives with someone known to have been exposed (sister living with her had a co-worker/friend test positive) and is waiting to see if any symptoms develop. Plus my other pregnant sister is a nurse and lives with them also. I should ask her about what they are doing for potential jurors right now... trials can wait for now.
I work for one of the District Courts in NM. We're still open, but all jury trials have been postponed as well as other court clinics and things of this nature that would bring a lot of people together at one. I would imagine this is the case most places. We still have to have staff on hand though...much of what comes through the court is e-filed and that can back up very quickly. Also, the courts here run pre-trial services which is monitoring those awaiting trial who are deemed not enough of a threat to put in jail awaiting trial...but they are monitored by GPS by certain court staff and have to do check ins and in many cases, regular drug testing. As for now, anyone who has the capability of working from home is and starting next week the clerks office will be running a skeleton crew of 3 in the office and rotating those shifts.
There is also a constitutional component as to why courts are "essential"...because our state constitution says they are and they must remain open.
Tennessee state courts have been postponing all but essential in-person proceedings with no jury duty except in trials that were already ongoing since March 13.
There’s been a request to have prisoners who would be otherwise granted bail if not for being unable to pay released since they don’t know when they will come to trial. Which also makes sense since they want to limit people in the jails in case of an outbreak.3 -
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Are people still flying??? I just saw a post on FB from a former daycare family that are in Aruba. They must've flown out of Logan and maybe one other airport, IDK. But....??
Yes. One of my clients left for vacation on March 18. Her family flew to Fiji. Hope she can get back home!
1 -
I have to say I don't understand why anyone would take their family on a plane with potentially infected fellow passengers, and risk not being able to return home?10 -
My usually quiet trail was packed today--groups of 8, 10, 12; some with kids, some with dogs, others just adults. I usually pass 2-3 walkers and maybe as many runners in an hour-long workout. Today I had to have passed 60 people, easily. I was shocked bc not only were they not practicing social distancing within their groups (and these didn't appear to be single family/people who already lived together), they didn't seem to understand what it meant when passing someone outside their group. I kept wanting to yell at them, which just made me feel stressed, so I took a deep breath (ok, I was panting a lot anyway and needed a deep breath) and calmed myself down and did the best I could to make it obvious I wanted my 6 feet of separation. I doubt anyone in those groups noticed.
I'll have to remind myself that mid-to-late afternoon on a sunny Saturday is prime time for the "occasionals" to flood the path. We regulars tend to go early or late. It was still pretty chilly, 34 F or so, and I just didn't expect so many to be out. BUT, with folks staying home more, I guess more were willing to brave the chill. I can appreciate that as it's what I did not only with my run, but with my trip to the dog park at 9 am when it was still mid 20s.
People at the dog park seem to "get it." Everyone stays trail-width apart, more or less, and it's a wide trail.2 -
So it seems to me some concepts are getting conflated and I'd love to get other people's opinions. This is my understanding:
Social distancing and community self quarantine are two very different things.
Social distancing is not meant to keep everyone from getting the virus, just to slow down transmission so that the health care system can keep up. This doesn't require everyone to stay locked in their homes, just avoid crowds, give others a 6 ft distance, and practice correct hygienic practices. Quarantine would only be necessary for those who are sick to avoid creating a cluster, or possibly for those in the vulnerable demographic to protect themselves. This would be appropriate in places where their are few or a manageable number of cases requiring intensive care.
Community self quarantine is meant to keep a place that is already a cluster or about to become one from completely overwhelming the healthcare system. It's meant to try to keep anyone else from getting sick until the system can catch up with the patients already taxing it.
I honestly don't think it's remotely feasible for the entire planet to self quarantine until there's a vaccine or cure. That could literally take years. But I think the focus right now on leaning more towards as "quarantined" as possible is to allow some time for the medical community to get its head around the behavior of covid-19 and understand why the most vulnerable are vulnerable, why it behaves the way it does, so it can more effectively treat those vulnerable people and keep them from dying or becoming disabled. I'd guess most of us will eventually come in contact with this thing, just hopefully after it's better understood.
As I said, that is just my understanding and I'm not a pro at anything remotely useful for dealing with infectious disease. If I'm misunderstanding, please feel free to correct.
Anyhoo, still no cases in my county and only single digits in surrounding counties. The VA Dept of health says they have enough test for those with multiple symptoms, but not for widespread testing just for statistical or preventive purposes. I work for a local TV station and am running in twice a week to make sure the news team has everything they need on site, then getting the heck out. The downtown parking garage was pretty empty, a lot less pedestrians, most govt offices closed to the public at least.
That is how I interpreted the situation and I am no pro either. The only reason special measures are being put into place is because of the medical community. As soon as this can be treated more effectively and without overtaxing the medical facilities things will revert back to normal. Or they will be forced back to normal. COVID-19 is killing people but then so are lots of other things that we do not take extraordinary measures to prevent. In the US alone (according the the census site) there is a death every 11 seconds. I don't like that people die because I am a people but it is going to happen.6 -
Americans?
It they are.. they will be stuck in Fiji
Level 4 for international travels for US citizens
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/ea/travel-advisory-alert-global-level-4-health-advisory-issue.html#.XnPHGUBrXPM.twitter6
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