How do you deal with the fear?
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No fear here. I have basically changed my lifestyle and am confident I can continue on the new lifestyle. Putting the weight back on is not an option. If something happens and the weight starts to creep up, clothing starts to feel too tight, I will increase my activity and readjust my eating as needed. I no longer own any of my larger clothing and will not buy anything larger than what I am wearing now.3
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I'm almost 38 and this is my second go at this. I lost 50 lbs in 2011and kept it all off until 2015 when I got divorced and gained about 15-20 back. I stayed steady there until I got pregnant in 2017 and have since had the baby and gained it ALL back, plus about 10 more lbs. I'm down about 32 lbs now.
So. I get that fear.
But....I don't know. I think sometimes science about weight gain/loss makes me more crazy than it is helpful - it IS depressing to think about how many people gain back what they've lost....for whatever reason. I try to avoid that stuff, because the bottom line is, when I do well and take care of myself, I don't gain back. If I workout like I know I'm supposed to, and eat reasonably well, I don't gain it back. Period. When I've gained back, I've done so while also knowing in the back of my mind the reason I gained it back...whether I chose to admit it or not
That being said...do I notice that my body seems to "hold" weight on where other people my age have bodies that allow them to lose more easily? sure. But also, I know that I don't always try very hard to stay healthy. that's on me, not on my metabolism or anything else...because again, if I do well, I lose weight and I can maintain it. I don't lose it as quickly, but I do lose it.
this is a mindset thing (for me). I've chosen a target weight that I know most women might cringe at...but its weight where I like how I look, I like how I feel and I like what I'm able to do. It's a weight I can maintain and not feel like I Have to eat vegetables for every meal in order to maintain it. it's a weight I can maintain long term, its a weight my body "likes". the bottom line is, the only person who decides to put candy and fries in my mouth is me. And when I do those things in excess, I gain weight. If I chose to watch tv and not work out...I gain weight. It is what it is, for whatever reason that it is. And there is not reason to be fearful of that. And as much as nobody wants to gain weight back, if you do, you do. It sucks. I know this firsthand. But if you did it once, you can do it again....now that I'm on my second go around here, I've learned some things about how and why I eat and what is sustainable for me and what is not. I did not learn that when I dropped 50 lbs in 4 months (healthily and using this program/app). I was fueled by watching those numbers drop - which is fine, and I was successful doing that, until I wasn't. and here I am, learning what will keep me successful this time. gaining back is nothing to be afraid of if you've chosen a weight loss method that is sustainable for you. It's always there o return to if you're honest with yourself about when you need to return to it.4 -
I get the desire to just wish maintenance were easy, to wish I didn’t have to count calories or exercise or make the effort I do. But I know what happens when I don’t....I know just winging it won’t work for for long, that my portions will get slightly larger...and larger...and so will I. I’ve never been obese, but not paying attention will lead to to overweight squishiness and unhappiness with the way I look.
I dropped about 30ish pounds in HS, then mostly maintained until a blip in my mid 20s (thanks, grad school stress, exams, and a “if you’re not working/studying you aren’t committed and you don’t need to be here” culture). Lost that, maintained over the past 12ish years, not including pregnancy gains/losses, then decided to lose a little more. Lockdown and winter blah found me at the top of my maintenance range, so working my way back down again.
The best thing to conquer the fear, IMO, is knowledge. I know how I got bigger (eating too much), and I know how to lose it (eat less, log food, exercise). It’s not a mysterious process in either direction—it’s a known process under my control. Whether I choose to exert that control is on me. The counting and numbers is comforting and helpful for me bc I feel in control—not hoping my new voodoo “diet trick” will work or being afraid I’ll regain for no apparent reason.7 -
I haven't yet reached my maintenance goal, but I'm having serious anxiety issues related to fear of putting the weight back on. Partly this is because I fear the health consequences of doing so (weight loss is not primarily about looks for me at this stage in my life, although I'll take looking better as a bonus ). Partly because I have read lots of depressing articles about how few people keep weight off, "metabolic adaption", microbiome changes associated with obesity, and all that stuff. Also because I lost all the weight once before, but then watched it creep back on over the years until I was heavier than ever (although I was never doing proper calorie counting at that point).
How do you deal with the fear?
I am breaking my almost 30 day no posting to respond to this. It hits home in many ways. I also used to get caught up in media reports and studies. So, I am going to address this. Order..
1. Don't trust sensational stories. Media outlets make their living selling "news". The greater the sensationalism, the greater the sales.
2. Yes, Adaptive theromogenesis is real. The RMR seems to be about an 80 calorie drop greater than what would be predicted no matter how much you lose when lean mass and fat mass are equated. The Biggest drop in energy expenditure post weight loss is in Skeletal Muscle Fuel efficiency. Basically you burn less calories when doing the same activity than someone always at your current size. Not much we can do about rmr. Maybe a higher protein level in diet. Some research on that. The other is be more active. Resistance training seems to decrease efficiency in post weight loss subjects.
3. @cwolfman13 is correct. Dietary and activity adherence are currently the best indicators of who will be successful in weight loss and maintenance. I suggest looking into the habits of the Nation Weight Control Registry. In fact, there are several people I know who are members here.
4. While the microbiome is an interesting topic, I have not seen much evidence that it plays a huge role in who maintains weight loss and who doesn't. If you are concerned with microbiome issues, eating a diet rich in plant fibers might help.
5. F#@K FEAR! Resist and Bite!
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2. Yes, Adaptive theromogenesis is real. The RMR seems to be about an 80 calorie drop greater than what would be predicted no matter how much you lose when lean mass and fat mass are equated. The Biggest drop in energy expenditure post weight loss is in Skeletal Muscle Fuel efficiency. Basically you burn less calories when doing the same activity than someone always at your current size.
I know we're not in debate, but I'd like to see your sources for that ^^
I find I eat a full 500 calories above what any of the calculators would suggest I eat at my age, height and activity level - so my N=1 results definitely argue with you!1 -
cmriverside wrote: »2. Yes, Adaptive theromogenesis is real. The RMR seems to be about an 80 calorie drop greater than what would be predicted no matter how much you lose when lean mass and fat mass are equated. The Biggest drop in energy expenditure post weight loss is in Skeletal Muscle Fuel efficiency. Basically you burn less calories when doing the same activity than someone always at your current size.
I know we're not in debate, but I'd like to see your sources for that ^^
I find I eat a full 500 calories above what any of the calculators would suggest I eat at my age, height and activity level - so my N=1 results definitely argue with you!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4965234/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12609816/
lol.... mine is 300 cals over when I track. could be errors in tracking or misjudgments in activity.....3 -
psychod787 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »2. Yes, Adaptive theromogenesis is real. The RMR seems to be about an 80 calorie drop greater than what would be predicted no matter how much you lose when lean mass and fat mass are equated. The Biggest drop in energy expenditure post weight loss is in Skeletal Muscle Fuel efficiency. Basically you burn less calories when doing the same activity than someone always at your current size.
I know we're not in debate, but I'd like to see your sources for that ^^
I find I eat a full 500 calories above what any of the calculators would suggest I eat at my age, height and activity level - so my N=1 results definitely argue with you!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4965234/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12609816/
lol.... mine is 300 cals over when I track. could be errors in tracking or misjudgments in activity.....
Okay, well then, "Adaptive theromogenesis is real," I agree with BUT have you also read about long-term? Because AT is just a short-term adaptation in my understanding and the RMR of weight-loss subjects after a period of time goes back to the expected calorie needs for their height/weight/age/activity. It's not lowered permanently. I don't have cites for that, I just have my own experience.
The other thing that happens at the end of weight loss is hunger. A lot of hunger. That gets better and easier as hormones balance.
We've had this discussion before. It is just missing a whole lot the way you posted earlier. It's not doom-and-gloom-you'll-never-feel-satisfied-again.
I get plenty of food. I don't go hungry for long period of time during the day. It all balances out after weight loss, just not right away.2 -
Also, stop taking posting vacations. What, are your fingers tired?5
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cmriverside wrote: »
Okay, well then, "Adaptive theromogenesis is real," I agree with BUT have you also read about long-term? Because AT is just a short-term adaptation in my understanding and the RMR of weight-loss subjects after a period of time goes back to the expected calorie needs for their height/weight/age/activity. It's not lowered permanently. I don't have cites for that, I just have my own experience.
My experience matches your experience - had a noticable uptick in my calories needed to maintain after 2 to 3 months.3 -
Doesn't it annoy you guys that no one seems to know this stuff for sure? To my mind, the obesity crisis is the second greatest crisis facing humanity, second only to climate change (although I realise that this view may be coloured by my own personal struggles). It feels like it weird that no one knows basic things like "how long does adaptive thermogenesis last".2
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I don't think of it as fear, but maintaining does mean keeping on being consistent.
I'm in my 7th year of maintenance, no longer log my food but have a rough idea in my head of my daily consumption.
Stepping on the scale regularly keeps me right because my clothes wouldn't tell me I'd gained, probably would have to gain 7 or 8lbs for them to not fit well. I have to say in all my years so far at goal, I've never veered up more than 5lbs which I nip in the bud right away.3 -
Doesn't it annoy you guys that no one seems to know this stuff for sure? To my mind, the obesity crisis is the second greatest crisis facing humanity, second only to climate change (although I realise that this view may be coloured by my own personal struggles). It feels like it weird that no one knows basic things like "how long does adaptive thermogenesis last".
Well yes it's hard to tell how long at persist because metabolic ward studies are extremely expensive and time consuming. I will leave you with my thoughts and what the data shows. A slower metabolic rate is not the best predictor of weight loss maintenance. Activity and dietary adherence are. I will use this one as an example of why one shouldn't get too carried away with media sensationalism. Kevin Hall's study of the biggest losers season 8 showed that even after regaining weight, metabolic rates never returned to predicted and leptin levels remained decreased. What didn't make the news was two fold. What we found was that rmr was slowed, tdee was as predicted by the NIH body weight planner algorithm. Next, that there were people who regained all the weight and some, there was a great spectrum of data. Some maintained all or some. This was not reported as well. Not as sensational. In a follow up study it was showed that the biggest difference between regainers and maintainers was not calorie intake, but exercise. Going back to the idea that rmr means little and it is lifestyle changes that matter the most. Average exercise was only 56% higher than the preshow average in retainers and was 156% in maintainers. Not sensational. They ate the same calories but maintained weight being more active? Not going to sell many newspapers.5 -
Doesn't it annoy you guys that no one seems to know this stuff for sure? To my mind, the obesity crisis is the second greatest crisis facing humanity, second only to climate change (although I realise that this view may be coloured by my own personal struggles). It feels like it weird that no one knows basic things like "how long does adaptive thermogenesis last".
No, it doesn't annoy me. Many researchers are continuing to work hard in this area, but it just happens to be one area (among many) where the last scientific detail hasn't been pinned down yet. PsychoD's post a bit above talks about the challenges of research on this topic specifically, and there are other challenges. On top of that, there's individual variation in all the results in any specific study (i.e., slightly different results across the study population). Some of those differences can trigger more research, but some is just part of the process. Human bodies are complicated and differ in subtle says.
However, absent major health conditions, human bodies don't differ from person to person in huge, huge ways. In most cases, it's a few percent this way or that way from person to person.
The larger thing I realize is that none of that uncertainty/unclarity matters in a practical sense. Enough is known for me to make good progress, and get good results. All I need to do is look for sound science to the extent it exists, and apply it to my own personal n=1 experiment, then adjust what I do based on personal results. The basics of calorie counting are quite straightforward.
I could worry that I'm hypothyroid, so "my metabolism is slow". (The actual numbers: No more than 5% hypo penalty, even if completely untreated. So, instead of the 1500 calorie TDEE MFP estimates for me, my worst-case hypo TDEE would be 1425, and I need to eat 75 fewer calories to maintain.
I could worry that because I lost weight too fast for a while, I must have severe "adaptive thermogenesis", so I get that 80-calorie-ish penalty described above. Uh-oh, now my maintenance TDEE must be 1345!
Even if all of that is true, I can still lose/maintain weight. I don't need to maintain at 1345 if I don't want to, because I can increase activity (not just exercise, daily life counts, too). Even if there's that bad a case for me, I can still adjust and accomplish my goals. That's not very many maintenance calories, but why would I assume that if that's my calorie need, I'm going to be more hungry at 1325 than someone who needs 1500 is at 1500?
Worry, worry, worry. Annoyance, stress, sense of unfairness, anxiety, resentment. It accomplishes nothing, it makes me feel bad, it doesn't make me more successful.
Why waste my energy doing it? Worry, stress, anxiety don't improve anything. I'm far better off focusing my energy on what it takes for me, personally, to be satiated and happy with life at my experientially-determined calorie need. Everything else is a waste of my time and energy.
I can only do so much to mitigate unknowns, or accidents of circumstance over which I have no significant influence nor control. Focusing on things I can't influence or control is also a waste of time and energy.
By the way: That scary 1325 calorie TDEE? My nearly 5 years of logging experience says it just ain't so. My actual TDEE before exercise is a little over 2000: Like cmriverside, that's at least 500 calories over MFP's estimate. I'm lucky. Why? Don't know.
But if I'd been worried about those numbers and uncertainties, vs. just figuring out what I personally needed to do to succeed, I would've been more likely to get discouraged and give up, and I would've been worrying about (in my lucky personal case) absolutely nothing, feeling bad/scared/annoyed en route for absolutely no reason. Pointless; makes life unhappier. Nope.
Focus on what you need to do to achieve your results. Figure out how to do it in the way that's easiest and most sustainable for you. This is a realm where you have near total control, over what you eat, and how much you move. You'll do fine.
Best wishes!
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Yeah, like Ann says (and Psychod) there are so many variables. They can't all be pinned down, so I doubt "science" is going to come up with a better answer than, "Log your food. Use a digital food scale. Prepare 90% of your own meals. Take a damn walk. Get eight hours of sleep. Drink a lot of water. Keep stress low. Step on the body weight scale and adjust accordingly. Repeat forever. "
:drinker: Ta da.
I mean, that's really the bottom line. Calories, keeping some sort of measurements and being consistent over TIME.4 -
Since the android app ate my homework, I will just address a comment about AT being disproved because a person is eating above average calories to maintain.
Eating above average calories to maintain doesn't prove or disprove whether you, as an individual, have lost some calories to AT. For all you know you could have been maintaining at + or -10% (or whatever figure) more than what you are maintaining at today.
I will also address another issue which used to really concern me six years ago; but which is no longer a concern.
The fact that there exists some AT does not mean that you're ACTUALLY going to be PHYSICALLY HUNGRY for the "lost" amount of calories.
Do you consume the same amount of food when you spend the day sedentary, puttering around the house, or when you're super active, going for a 5 hour hike around the lake? Of course not. Right? Either hunger or simple MFP math tell you to eat more to fuel that hike: because you've spent Calories in order to perform it!
In my case, I have reasons to suspect a 2.5-3.5% of my TDEE AT which very closely brackets the 80 Cal mentioned by @psychod787. This has persisted a good 5 years post rapid weight loss. BUT, somewhere during the 24 to 28 month post rapid weight loss time period (discussed above as a probable time period during which hormones normalize) there was a marked improvement in my perception of how easy it was to stay within my caloric budget.
Let me repeat that: if you survive the initial post weight loss adjustment period (the first "two" years where most of us lose the battle), having some AT doesn't mean that you're spending your whole day hungry for lost calories! It does NOT feel like you're in a permanent 80 Cal deficit. It just feels like normal maintenance because your body is NOT ACTUALLY USING these calories in the first place!
This, of course, does not address "brain hamster issues" given that appetite and desire to eat are not always exact reflections of physical hunger!
I also note that the restoration of AT to normalcy often observed with full regain + a bit, is probably counterproductive!4 -
Since the android app ate my homework, I will just address a comment about AT being disproved because a person is eating above average calories to maintain.
Eating above average calories to maintain doesn't prove or disprove whether you, as an individual, have lost some calories to AT. For all you know you could have been maintaining at + or -10% (or whatever figure) more than what you are maintaining at today.
I will also address another issue which used to really concern me six years ago; but which is no longer a concern.
The fact that there exists some AT does not mean that you're ACTUALLY going to be PHYSICALLY HUNGRY for the "lost" amount of calories.
Do you consume the same amount of food when you spend the day sedentary, puttering around the house, or when you're super active, going for a 5 hour hike around the lake? Of course not. Right? Either hunger or simple MFP math tell you to eat more to fuel that hike: because you've spent Calories in order to perform it!
In my case, I have reasons to suspect a 2.5-3.5% of my TDEE AT which very closely brackets the 80 Cal mentioned by @psychod787. This has persisted a good 5 years post rapid weight loss. BUT, somewhere during the 24 to 28 month post rapid weight loss time period (discussed above as a probable time period during which hormones normalize) there was a marked improvement in my perception of how easy it was to stay within my caloric budget.
Let me repeat that: if you survive the initial post weight loss adjustment period (the first "two" years where most of us lose the battle), having some AT doesn't mean that you're spending your whole day hungry for lost calories! It does NOT feel like you're in a permanent 80 Cal deficit. It just feels like normal maintenance because your body is NOT ACTUALLY USING these calories in the first place!
This, of course, does not address "brain hamster issues" given that appetite and desire to eat are not always exact reflections of physical hunger!
I also note that the restoration of AT to normalcy often observed with full regain + a bit, is probably counterproductive!
To the bolded: Of course not. But that's not the point.
The point was: If I wasted a bunch of time worrying about the calories I might have lost to (theoretical) adaptive thermogenesis (or age, hypothyroidism, or any other thing), it would've accomplished nothing positive. If that worry (or sense of AT doom) overtook me before I figured out my personal TDEE was mysteriously but delightfully high, it would've (1) made me feel negative (anxious, stressed) for large stretches of time, completely optionally; (2) possibly have prevented me from doing the productive work to understand actual practical reality; and (3) maybe made me give up entirely before I reached my goals. Even if my personal reality was a low TDEE, all of those things still apply.
For all I know, I have hundreds of calories of adaptive thermogenesis (despite the mysteriously high TDEE). It still doesn't matter, and I still don't care. All I need to care about is my personal calorie goals, and figuring out how to work with them as happily and healthfully as possible, whether they're high, low, or right on the population average.
The "high TDEE" cases aren't to invalidate the possibility of adaptive thermogenesis, they're to illustrate one reason that it's not worth worrying about speculatively, in advance: Only your personal, practical case is worth time & energy. Worrying about things we can't influence/control is time and energy (and happiness) wasted.4 -
Since the android app ate my homework, I will just address a comment about AT being disproved because a person is eating above average calories to maintain.
Eating above average calories to maintain doesn't prove or disprove whether you, as an individual, have lost some calories to AT. For all you know you could have been maintaining at + or -10% (or whatever figure) more than what you are maintaining at today.
I will also address another issue which used to really concern me six years ago; but which is no longer a concern.
The fact that there exists some AT does not mean that you're ACTUALLY going to be PHYSICALLY HUNGRY for the "lost" amount of calories.
Do you consume the same amount of food when you spend the day sedentary, puttering around the house, or when you're super active, going for a 5 hour hike around the lake? Of course not. Right? Either hunger or simple MFP math tell you to eat more to fuel that hike: because you've spent Calories in order to perform it!
In my case, I have reasons to suspect a 2.5-3.5% of my TDEE AT which very closely brackets the 80 Cal mentioned by @psychod787. This has persisted a good 5 years post rapid weight loss. BUT, somewhere during the 24 to 28 month post rapid weight loss time period (discussed above as a probable time period during which hormones normalize) there was a marked improvement in my perception of how easy it was to stay within my caloric budget.
Let me repeat that: if you survive the initial post weight loss adjustment period (the first "two" years where most of us lose the battle), having some AT doesn't mean that you're spending your whole day hungry for lost calories! It does NOT feel like you're in a permanent 80 Cal deficit. It just feels like normal maintenance because your body is NOT ACTUALLY USING these calories in the first place!
This, of course, does not address "brain hamster issues" given that appetite and desire to eat are not always exact reflections of physical hunger!
I also note that the restoration of AT to normalcy often observed with full regain + a bit, is probably counterproductive!
To the bolded: Of course not. But that's not the point.
The point was: If I wasted a bunch of time worrying about the calories I might have lost to (theoretical) adaptive thermogenesis (or age, hypothyroidism, or any other thing), it would've accomplished nothing positive. If that worry (or sense of AT doom) overtook me before I figured out my personal TDEE was mysteriously but delightfully high, it would've (1) made me feel negative (anxious, stressed) for large stretches of time, completely optionally; (2) possibly have prevented me from doing the productive work to understand actual practical reality; and (3) maybe made me give up entirely before I reached my goals. Even if my personal reality was a low TDEE, all of those things still apply.
For all I know, I have hundreds of calories of adaptive thermogenesis (despite the mysteriously high TDEE). It still doesn't matter, and I still don't care. All I need to care about is my personal calorie goals, and figuring out how to work with them as happily and healthfully as possible, whether they're high, low, or right on the population average.
The "high TDEE" cases aren't to invalidate the possibility of adaptive thermogenesis, they're to illustrate one reason that it's not worth worrying about speculatively, in advance: Only your personal, practical case is worth time & energy. Worrying about things we can't influence/control is time and energy (and happiness) wasted.
@AnnPT77 aunt granny. How is the holy hell do I manage to open a can of worms everytime I post? 🤣 God forbid I mention set point theory or Dr.Jason Fun... nope... nope....not saying his name!
While I agree with everything you have said, i think there are twot ypes of peopl when it comes to issues like. Some are ok with... yep it works..... then there are folks like me and @PAV8888 , we like to see what makes things tick...1 -
psychod787 wrote: »Since the android app ate my homework, I will just address a comment about AT being disproved because a person is eating above average calories to maintain.
Eating above average calories to maintain doesn't prove or disprove whether you, as an individual, have lost some calories to AT. For all you know you could have been maintaining at + or -10% (or whatever figure) more than what you are maintaining at today.
I will also address another issue which used to really concern me six years ago; but which is no longer a concern.
The fact that there exists some AT does not mean that you're ACTUALLY going to be PHYSICALLY HUNGRY for the "lost" amount of calories.
Do you consume the same amount of food when you spend the day sedentary, puttering around the house, or when you're super active, going for a 5 hour hike around the lake? Of course not. Right? Either hunger or simple MFP math tell you to eat more to fuel that hike: because you've spent Calories in order to perform it!
In my case, I have reasons to suspect a 2.5-3.5% of my TDEE AT which very closely brackets the 80 Cal mentioned by @psychod787. This has persisted a good 5 years post rapid weight loss. BUT, somewhere during the 24 to 28 month post rapid weight loss time period (discussed above as a probable time period during which hormones normalize) there was a marked improvement in my perception of how easy it was to stay within my caloric budget.
Let me repeat that: if you survive the initial post weight loss adjustment period (the first "two" years where most of us lose the battle), having some AT doesn't mean that you're spending your whole day hungry for lost calories! It does NOT feel like you're in a permanent 80 Cal deficit. It just feels like normal maintenance because your body is NOT ACTUALLY USING these calories in the first place!
This, of course, does not address "brain hamster issues" given that appetite and desire to eat are not always exact reflections of physical hunger!
I also note that the restoration of AT to normalcy often observed with full regain + a bit, is probably counterproductive!
To the bolded: Of course not. But that's not the point.
The point was: If I wasted a bunch of time worrying about the calories I might have lost to (theoretical) adaptive thermogenesis (or age, hypothyroidism, or any other thing), it would've accomplished nothing positive. If that worry (or sense of AT doom) overtook me before I figured out my personal TDEE was mysteriously but delightfully high, it would've (1) made me feel negative (anxious, stressed) for large stretches of time, completely optionally; (2) possibly have prevented me from doing the productive work to understand actual practical reality; and (3) maybe made me give up entirely before I reached my goals. Even if my personal reality was a low TDEE, all of those things still apply.
For all I know, I have hundreds of calories of adaptive thermogenesis (despite the mysteriously high TDEE). It still doesn't matter, and I still don't care. All I need to care about is my personal calorie goals, and figuring out how to work with them as happily and healthfully as possible, whether they're high, low, or right on the population average.
The "high TDEE" cases aren't to invalidate the possibility of adaptive thermogenesis, they're to illustrate one reason that it's not worth worrying about speculatively, in advance: Only your personal, practical case is worth time & energy. Worrying about things we can't influence/control is time and energy (and happiness) wasted.
@AnnPT77 aunt granny. How is the holy hell do I manage to open a can of worms everytime I post? 🤣 God forbid I mention set point theory or Dr.Jason Fun... nope... nope....not saying his name!
While I agree with everything you have said, i think there are twot ypes of peopl when it comes to issues like. Some are ok with... yep it works..... then there are folks like me and @PAV8888 , we like to see what makes things tick...
Oh, I'm fascinated by how it works. Learning about it is fun, and potentially useful.
But IMO OP is getting bogged down in stressing over fear of regain, the idea that science can't say how long AT lasts, over "lots of depressing articles about how few people keep weight off, "metabolic adaption", microbiome changes associated with obesity, and all that stuff."
That stuff is academically interesting, some of it can be useful.
But fear, worry, annoyance, stress over it? Not helpful. The practical part one needs for base success is pretty simple. One maintains by understanding (within a certain error tolerance) how much to eat for one's own personal body's needs, and adjusts by watching the scale (or the fit of a particular pair of jeans or something).
To say "Worrying about things we can't influence/control is a waste of time and energy" is not the same as saying "Learning about - and considering whether one can apply - research and theory is a waste of time and energy."
It's the stress, the fear, the worry that's optional, completely unnecessary and unhelpful; not the liking or wanting to know how stuff works.4 -
To the bolded: Of course not. But that's not the point.
The point was: If I wasted a bunch of time worrying about the calories I might have lost to (theoretical) adaptive thermogenesis (or age, hypothyroidism, or any other thing), it would've accomplished nothing positive. If that worry (or sense of AT doom) overtook me before I figured out my personal TDEE was mysteriously but delightfully high, it would've (1) made me feel negative (anxious, stressed) for large stretches of time, completely optionally; (2) possibly have prevented me from doing the productive work to understand actual practical reality; and (3) maybe made me give up entirely before I reached my goals.
<SNIP! <-- I so wanted to do this with one of your posts Ann!!!! <evil laugh>>
Only your personal, practical case is worth time & energy. Worrying about things we can't influence/control is time and energy (and happiness) wasted.
I think we're more in agreement than you appear to credit!
In fact I thought that my post was saying similar things to your post: you take what precautions you can to minimize bad stuff within your personal context and tolerances (same as with strength training) and then you move forward.
After spending decades making uneducated attempts to lose weight and/or deep down believing that it was impossible to lose and maintain (thus either not trying, or trying and regaining+friends) I feel somewhat compelled to mention that even though there may exist AT after weight loss, even though there may exist a hormonally induced push towards regain after weight loss (and not just simple personal will-power failings), these things are not necessarily permanent and forever (ergo there is light at the end of the tunnel), nor is the battle necessarily lost ahead of the game.
Forewarned, forearmed, taking precautions, and being prepared to react, and adjust, and win are good. Paralyzed and debilitated... not good.
As with so many things, balance seems to be the way forward!2 -
I haven't yet reached my maintenance goal, but I'm having serious anxiety issues related to fear of putting the weight back on. Partly this is because I fear the health consequences of doing so (weight loss is not primarily about looks for me at this stage in my life, although I'll take looking better as a bonus ). Partly because I have read lots of depressing articles about how few people keep weight off, "metabolic adaption", microbiome changes associated with obesity, and all that stuff. Also because I lost all the weight once before, but then watched it creep back on over the years until I was heavier than ever (although I was never doing proper calorie counting at that point).
How do you deal with the fear?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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