Coronavirus prep

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

GaleHawkins wrote: »

https://wwjnewsradio.radio.com/articles/news/man-fatally-shot-after-stabbing-in-fight-over-wearing-a-mask

The local Walmart (KY/USA) has an employee standing under a tent with two huge fans blowing from behind him which moves the air from those going into the store away from the employee. When I came out there was no one nearby so I asked him what was his instructions were over masks.

He said they were permitted to suggest wearing a mask per the governor's order but in no way were they to confront a customer with a demand to wear a mask to enter, shop and check out. KY does not want the expense to have police to walk along with the shoppers to physically force people to wear masks naturally plus not all shoppers are even required to wear a mask. The employee said he did not have the knowledge of who were exempt from the order so WM put in place the above mask enforcement policy to help prevent him from physical harm or even death. He and I agreed if people had breathing issues that exempted them from the mask order that it would be best if possible to have someone come shop on their behalf or let other staff pick the items and bring them out to the pick up location.

That's ridiculous. A store should have the right to have whatever policies they want for people entering. Seems like either a cop-out by WM or an overreach by the state. And no, you don't need to have police "walk along with the shoppers" to have the store (esp one with security, as I would imagine WM has) enforce their own rules about who can enter and check out.

Remember what happened to the store security guard who tried to enforce a mask rule back in May? Nobody unarmed, making $15/hr is going to put up much of an argument with someone who doesn't want to wear a mask. Based on history it unfortunately doesn't end well.

https://apnews.com/9e9eadf6757e8ad1551030dacf6b3e29

Big box stores are enforcing it here, no issues. The state telling a chain not to enforce it is either false (the store making excuses) or complete state overreach, as I said.

I live in IL and any enforcement is very random.

Any big box store I've been to in Chicago is pretty strict and everyone is in a mask. If not, I could report it, and the state would NOT say to the store not to try to enforce the law, as Gale claims his state said.

Smaller stores require more on personal compliance, but generally people are being compliant, and would be considered jerks if they were not -- which seems right to me.

Continued from above it wouldn’t let me edit. My first time since COVID-19.
Anyway, one person besides me had a mask. There were about 20 people including 4 cashiers. No masks or gloves on any employee. I won’t go back anytime soon.

This article has a great visual for why we should wear masks. Petri dishes!

https://www.fox5dc.com/news/masks-dont-reduce-your-oxygen-levels-doctor-debunks-facial-covering-claim-in-experiment

The friend I walk with had settled down this week, but did say her husband found pictures online showing the size of the virus vs. standard weave of a fabric mask and was wondering what the point of wearing masks was since it could could obviously fit through... that the masks couldn’t block it at all. Had to explain that the mask doesn’t block the virus, it just keeps your droplets from spreading further than without it.

ReenieHJ wrote: »

With the number of people assaulting other people over a seemingly simple mask issue, you have to wonder if it's Covid that's making them crazy or if they were already there. And why does it seem there are many less issues concerning masks everywhere except in America? Well, there was that very tragic bus driver incident in France.

There are hundreds of millions of people in America. When random acts of violent idiocy get blasted on social media every couple of days it makes it seem like it's happening everywhere all the time. It's happening more than it should, but it's not rampant and widespread.

AnnPT77 wrote: »

On another Covid front: Michigan's mask mandate has an exception for those who can't wear a mask for medical reasons, predictably leading mask-rebel people to lie about it, and stores/police departments to try to figure out a policy. Some of the stores, police departments, and general public are claiming that stores can't ask about medical conditions because of HIPAA, which, since stores are not "covered entities" under HIPAA, is not true. (I've also seen photos of signs at one store claiming they can't ask because of the 4th amendment. Huh? Stores are not bound by that, either.)

There's been discussion of whether ADA requires stores to allow people in the store without a mask if they medically can't wear one. I'm doubtful, and have seen at least one interpretation that health provisions can override ADA in a case like this, but I don't have the knowledge to evaluate that.

People are dumb and have no idea what HIPAA and the ADA actually do.

As for the ADA part, a store only has to make a reasonable accommodation. This does not mean they have to let someone without a mask into the store. Not wearing a mask would not be considered reasonable during a pandemic. Plus, the ADA does say that matters of public health can take precedence over said accommodations. So people saying they have to be allowed in without a mask because they have a disability are incorrect and can be asked to leave. Now, a store should then have a way to accommodate them with say curb side pickup, but the accommodation does not need to be whatever the person with the "disability" wants (disability in quotes because I know people are lying about it).

Also, as someone WITH a disability (PTSD) that is directly related to if they can wear a mask... people need to grow up. I've been doing it this whole time (minus a couple problem days). If I can do it, then the vast majority of the population can do it.

As for numbers here in Indiana:

662 new positive cases with 13 new deaths which means we are seeing the numbers increase again.

Total positive: 52,685
Total Tested: 578,409 (so 9.1% positive)
Total Deaths: 2,582

We are also seeing an increase in the number of Covid 19 ICU patients (also an increase in non Covid so our ICU bed availability is not the best due to that number).

Also, the 20-29 age range now has the most number of positive cases.

ReenieHJ wrote: »

With the number of people assaulting other people over a seemingly simple mask issue, you have to wonder if it's Covid that's making them crazy or if they were already there. And why does it seem there are many less issues concerning masks everywhere except in America? Well, there was that very tragic bus driver incident in France.

I do think it's the whole Covid/lockdown/economy/stress thing that is making people crazier than normal, plus the mask thing being made into a partisan issue. Plus someone somewhere (here?) made the excellent point that some downplaying it/not masking is part of a defense mechanism/denial of the seriousness, so people masking/mask requirements poke holes in that some, which makes them angry in a way they wouldn't be but for the underlying fear.

(I looked up the mask requirement in KY and it does seem like the gov is really committed to it, despite some counties objecting, so I doubt he told WM not to bother. Seems more like an excuse from WM, as I suspected.)

lemurcat2 wrote: »

ReenieHJ wrote: »

With the number of people assaulting other people over a seemingly simple mask issue, you have to wonder if it's Covid that's making them crazy or if they were already there. And why does it seem there are many less issues concerning masks everywhere except in America? Well, there was that very tragic bus driver incident in France.

I do think it's the whole Covid/lockdown/economy/stress thing that is making people crazier than normal, plus the mask thing being made into a partisan issue. Plus someone somewhere (here?) made the excellent point that some downplaying it/not masking is part of a defense mechanism/denial of the seriousness, so people masking/mask requirements poke holes in that some, which makes them angry in a way they wouldn't be but for the underlying fear.

(I looked up the mask requirement in KY and it does seem like the gov is really committed to it, despite some counties objecting, so I doubt he told WM not to bother. Seems more like an excuse from WM, as I suspected.)

I just saw news that WM is going ro require customers to wear masks starting on Monday. I bet that the local workers refuse to enforce the corp. policy where I live. It's pretty bad here as far as nobody wants to wear a mask.

ReenieHJ wrote: »

With the number of people assaulting other people over a seemingly simple mask issue, you have to wonder if it's Covid that's making them crazy or if they were already there. And why does it seem there are many less issues concerning masks everywhere except in America? Well, there was that very tragic bus driver incident in France.

Since a couple of these things happened here (the recent one very local, the dollar store one in Flint only about an hour away), I'll speculate.

Anyone who would shoot or stab a person over something like this had some kind of pre-existing problem, or at least a vulnerability. The pandemic, for reasons psychological, economic, and ideological, has put people under stress. People with pre-existing problems, who have the capacity for inappropriate violence, are more likely to become violent under stress.

I have usually-medium-stable friends who are clearly acting out in various ways: Not violence at all, but quicker to anger, lashing out more on social media, that sort of thing. I'm not even remotely suggesting they'll become violent, just saying that I think more people than usual are acting out in a whole range of ways, because of increased stress. It certainly appears that culture-wide, substance abuse, domestic violence, and that sort of thing are at higher incidence now than usual.

Also, in the Flint case, though I don't know those involved as individuals, I'm strongly inclined to suspect honor-culture played a role. It's a thing we have here in Michigan, especially strongly so in some subcultures. (To be clear: This is not a veiled racial stereotype. Those old enough to remember the term "Michigan Militia" will know those guys were of my race, which is not the same as those involved in the Flint incident. The social segment they draw on - which includes some of my relatives - tends to be honor-culture oriented.) In these subcultures, people who are (i.e., feel) disrespected are more likely to lash out, as a point of honor. Not to do so is to be a coward (many of them would use the p-word, in my experience). Among mainstream, well-adjusted people, this stops short of violence over trivia, but at extremes, among less stable people, that kind of subculture makes interpersonal violence a little more likely.

Given that this honor-culture sort of thing isn't uncommon here, I won't be surprised if it turns out to have been relevant to the very recent local case as well. (But really, honor culture or no, a 43-year-old who stabs a 77-year-old over this kind of argument clearly has more problems than just hair-trigger reactive subculture.)

The incidences of actual public violence are very, very small, in a sea of millions under stress. (Domestic violence is probably statistically more common than we'd like to think, but not "news".) Grumbling about masks, even argument or harsh words, are doubtless more common, but extremes of even that are being reported as "news", which would suggest to me that severe examples are not all that common: They're exceptional enough to report.

Theoretical or ideological opposition to masks is (in my circle) somewhat common, but (again, my circle) distinctly a minority thing . . . even among the segment of friends (mine) who . . . are of a general political bent, let's say, who might be expected to be most opposed to mask requirements. There are quite a few advocating wearing masks, while railing against government requirements to wear them. (The shut-down for health vs. public health balance is more split purely based on political/ideological orientation, in my circle, than the mask/no-mask behavioral thing. Some who oppose continuing shutdowns do support masking as a way to make opening up safer.)

In that last paragraph, though I already said it several times: Observation of people I personally know, not a scientifically conducted poll. Personal impressions.

AnnPT77 wrote: »

Theoretical or ideological opposition to masks is (in my circle) somewhat common, but (again, my circle) distinctly a minority thing . . . even among the segment of friends (mine) who . . . are of a general political bent, let's say, who might be expected to be most opposed to mask requirements. There are quite a few advocating wearing masks, while railing against government requirements to wear them. (The shut-down for health vs. public health balance is more split purely based on political/ideological orientation, in my circle, than the mask/no-mask behavioral thing. Some who oppose continuing shutdowns do support masking as a way to make opening up safer.)

In that last paragraph, though I already said it several times: Observation of people I personally know, not a scientifically conducted poll. Personal impressions.

Here (north side of Chicago, neighborhood of a particular political bent), I don't really see any theoretical/ideological opposition to masks (with a very few exceptions). I do see arguments, often pushback, against people complaining on social media about people not wearing them outside -- the counter, which I often agree with, although I always wear them outside, is that one can socially distance without trouble most of the time outside. I think some of the pushback is more due to the attempted shaming or endless new threads about this, but I also see a lot of more irritable than normal behavior on social media (such as Nextdoor) in general, which goes along with some of what you said.

What I do see a lot of, especially when driving around or through neighborhoods that have a generally younger population (such as West Loop) are lots of people not wearing masks despite not social distancing. I see some of that in all neighborhoods. Here, I'm lucky enough that indoors masks seem to be enforced (or honored) relatively well, but I think what I'm seeing is less ideological (although I do think it's that a lot of places elsewhere in the country), but either the lack of concern often common to the young or simply people being so tired of all this and it feeling like it's not ending soon. The worrisome part to me is less people being maskless outdoors as that I think it demonstrates a willingness to relax care that has been occurring in restaurants and bars too -- especially by the young, again -- and is why we have had an uptick of cases and those especially among the 20-29 group.