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Coronavirus prep
Replies
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cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
I've often wondered as I'm reading this thread how those who are isolated are doing. I see so many people saying we need to keep parents/grandparents safe and essentially totally isolated to keep them from getting Covid. In no way do I think we should deliberately spread it to those who are most vulnerable, but is it worth grandpa getting a longer life if that life is spent in isolation and him being unhappy due to not being able to spend time, hug or even see his family? There needs to be balance for all...I'm not sure what the answer is but the mental health effects on our most vulnerable are not being taken into consideration it seems like.
Plus e-learning just won't work for so many kids - whether it's because they do not have the resources at home to be able to utilize it, don't have the necessary supervision/involved parents to be successful or a multitude of other factors - we aren't doing most kids any favors by keeping them at home.4 -
cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
If the argument is that those of us with resources should be LESS concerned about the deaths of those with fewer resources, I'm going to have to disagree.
I'm lucky to be able to work from home. I realize that, which is why I am a strong advocate for other people to be more protected. Since we're supposed to keep politics out of this conversation, I can't share details of exactly what I have in mind. But I'll just say that I don't think you're really truly "making your own choice" if you're choosing between being evicted because you can't pay your rent and sending your kids to school in uncertain circumstances so that you can work.
If I wasn't privileged, I would hope that someone would give some thought to me and think that I mattered, that I wasn't just an acceptable loss we'll have in order to get back to "normal."
We still aren't sure what recovery looks like, how many people will have lifelong impacts. "More people won't [die]" isn't the whole scope of how people can potentially be harmed.12 -
cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
If I were not privileged (and I've been in that situation before), I would hope and pray that everyone who could stay home, did. That everyone that could be distant, was.
What I'm seeing is not people who are desperate, or people that are in bad financial straits, that are the ones having parties and taking risks. These are comfortable, privileged people, who have no business being out. I do not judge people who need money doing their best in a crap situation. I only judge people who I know can safely and comfortably stay home and are choosing not to do so.
If everyone that can stay home, does, that is so many more people off the street. I won't get political about people who have to live hand-to-mouth even before all this. That is a problem, I agree.18 -
CupcakeCrusoe wrote: »I live in Hampton Roads VA, the biggest problem center in Virginia.
I've walked by several house parties in the afternoons. One of them was a volleyball party, with teenagers coming over and hugging each other and whatnot. It's disheartening that people are acting this way.
In grocery stores, most people I see wear masks, but there are always a couple that don't. And some of those that do, don't wear them properly- not covering their nose.
On my walks, my neighbors will get super close to me and want to talk, while neither of us are wearing masks. I do a lot of crossing the street/turning around/avoiding. I need to just bite the bullet and wear a mask walking around my neighborhood- in the past I've not come across a lot of people, so I didn't prioritize wearing a mask for exercise, but I guess that's done now. I walk early in the morning, around 4, when no one's out, and then in the afternoon, that's when everyone's out.
I'm in a text group where the moms say that they're "beaching it," doing normal summer things. I don't know whether they take precautions or not, or whether they go at off-hours, or whatever. I hope they are.
People are just tired of confining themselves, I guess. And so am I. But I'm not tired enough to stop trying to keep my family and my neighbors safe. I do feel that the people around me believe I'm overreacting. My extended family is having a *kitten* reunion in a week, flying in from all over the country. We are of course not going. I hope nothing bad happens.
i try to do my best to keep my mask in my pocket, or i run/walk in the rain lol. People stay inside usually so i get the whole road to myself when i do this!4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
If the argument is that those of us with resources should be LESS concerned about the deaths of those with fewer resources, I'm going to have to disagree.
I'm lucky to be able to work from home. I realize that, which is why I am a strong advocate for other people to be more protected. Since we're supposed to keep politics out of this conversation, I can't share details of exactly what I have in mind. But I'll just say that I don't think you're really truly "making your own choice" if you're choosing between being evicted because you can't pay your rent and sending your kids to school in uncertain circumstances so that you can work.
If I wasn't privileged, I would hope that someone would give some thought to me and think that I mattered, that I wasn't just an acceptable loss we'll have in order to get back to "normal."
We still aren't sure what recovery looks like, how many people will have lifelong impacts. "More people won't [die]" isn't the whole scope of how people can potentially be harmed.
Sure, Utopia. How we would love thee.
Said everyone in the history of Ever.
Jane, we have the system we have.
You know I didn't mean this:If the argument is that those of us with resources should be LESS concerned about the deaths of those with fewer resources, I'm going to have to disagree.
So since you're so concerned, what are you actually doing about it other than hand-wringing? Are you donating all your extra money? Are you paying tuition for under-privileged kids? How about taking in a single mom with two kids and supporting them and letting them live in your third bedroom? It's very easy to type these oh-so-noble Truths out on a fitness forum, where they don't cost you anything.
How about getting all your comfortable friends to go in on a house for homeless people? Buying groceries for a family out of work? I'm not saying I do all that stuff, either. People are mostly a bunch of hot air though. When pressed to DO something, it's someone else's problem. The Government should do it. Yadda yadda.
So let's look at the UK. They have socialized medicine. They decided to do the herd immunity thing. It was ugly. But they can't afford to shut down the economy and still care for the people. Same with Sweden. Socialization is not the answer. Self-determination and self-accountability can be the answer - but not if people are locked out of working.6 -
cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
I think other countries managed to keep most people financially solvent and safe at home, and I'm angry we didn't even really seem to try to do that.
And I think if all of the people who are privileged enough to be able to work from home actually stayed at home and self quarantined as completely as possible, we would be making conditions for essential workers much safer.
Unfortunately, back when we were supposed to be staying at home, people were running to the grocery or big box stores multiple times a week, browsing, going to family and friends houses, arguing about wearing masks. And now people are packing bars and throwing covid parties.
Our country's epically bad handling of this crisis is forcing people who were already struggling to make awful choices between two evils and it sucks. It's historically tragic. And it didn't have to be that way.13 -
cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
I think other countries managed to keep most people financially solvent and safe at home, and I'm angry we didn't even really seem to try to do that.
And I think if all of the people who are privileged enough to be able to work from home actually stayed at home and self quarantined as completely as possible, we would be making conditions for essential workers much safer.
Unfortunately, back when we were supposed to be staying at home, people were running to the grocery or big box stores multiple times a week, browsing, going to family and friends houses, arguing about wearing masks. And now people are packing bars and throwing covid parties.
Our country's epically bad handling if this crisis is forcing people who were already struggling to make awful choices between two evils and it sucks. It's historically tragic. And it didn't have to be this way.
I think it DID have to be this way.
Those countries that kept people home? China. We won't go there.
Name another country that isn't an island and that has 300 million people who successfully contained this particular virus.
There isn't one because this virus is not containable. Never has been. It's not like ebola where people show symptoms and then die. You can't trace contacts of a virus that acts like the common cold until three weeks in when people die.
The financial solvency...who did that? Kiwis? Well bully for them in a island nation with what - 5 million people? It's not over yet for them, by the way. They just delayed it. Hopefully there will be a vaccine, but even that isn't a sure thing. You can't shut down an economy for a year...well, I guess you CAN, but the consequences are huge.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »One of the the larger school districts in our area announced their plan. Parents will make a binding choice for the fall semester
- Child will go to school in person with distancing measures, masks required, etc. Classes will be taught by the district's teachers. If there is an outbreak these kids will be taught remotely by their regular teachers
- Child will remote school. Instruction will be through a 3rd party provider.
This is interesting because I was just asking elsewhere about the plan. If a teacher or student is infected, then everyone who rode the bus or had a class with that person quarantines for 2 weeks? And if one of them ends up sick, does everyone who rode the bus or had a class with that teacher or student quarantine for 2 weeks?
Not to mention that multiple families have more than one child in school. Compound this by what the plan is if someone in class A gets sick and someone in that classroom has a sibling in Class B. Is all of Class B now expected to quarantine? The logistics of this seem almost overwhelming.
Exactly! Just have everyone do virtual. Students without a computer/internet can maybe be sent packets of materials to read and complete.2 -
cmriverside wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
I think other countries managed to keep most people financially solvent and safe at home, and I'm angry we didn't even really seem to try to do that.
And I think if all of the people who are privileged enough to be able to work from home actually stayed at home and self quarantined as completely as possible, we would be making conditions for essential workers much safer.
Unfortunately, back when we were supposed to be staying at home, people were running to the grocery or big box stores multiple times a week, browsing, going to family and friends houses, arguing about wearing masks. And now people are packing bars and throwing covid parties.
Our country's epically bad handling if this crisis is forcing people who were already struggling to make awful choices between two evils and it sucks. It's historically tragic. And it didn't have to be this way.
I think it DID have to be this way.
Those countries that kept people home? China. We won't go there.
Name another country that isn't an island and that has 300 million people who successfully contained this particular virus.
There isn't one because this virus is not containable. Never has been. It's not like ebola where people show symptoms and then die. You can't trace contacts of a virus that acts like the common cold until three weeks in when people die.
I agree it was destined to be more of a challenge here. But if you look at the numbers, our cases per capita and deaths per capita contradict your post. Most of the EU has it under control. Canada is doing light years better than we are. But the only reason it HAD to be like this in the US is because of where we put our priorities. IMHO it was a choice, and we soothe ourselves by ignoring the other options we had. I can't really say more without getting political.
I'm privileged enough to be able to work from home, but I am now and have always been barely keeping my head above water, so it's hard for me to financially help others. I try my best though. It's frustrating that there's plenty of money out there, it's just not being used to get the people struggling through this. I don't think I'm required to be paying other people's rent to express dissatisfaction with the way our government and corporate America has handled the last 6 months14 -
cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
I think other countries managed to keep most people financially solvent and safe at home, and I'm angry we didn't even really seem to try to do that.
And I think if all of the people who are privileged enough to be able to work from home actually stayed at home and self quarantined as completely as possible, we would be making conditions for essential workers much safer.
Unfortunately, back when we were supposed to be staying at home, people were running to the grocery or big box stores multiple times a week, browsing, going to family and friends houses, arguing about wearing masks. And now people are packing bars and throwing covid parties.
Our country's epically bad handling of this crisis is forcing people who were already struggling to make awful choices between two evils and it sucks. It's historically tragic. And it didn't have to be that way.
Exactly this. Back in late Mar. and April, some if us were staying home and only going for groceries and laundromat once every week or 2, otherwise staying home. Most others (most where I live at least) were acting like nothing was different and were traveling around as much as always. Until recently, I was the only person wearing a mask anywhere. Even now, I see very few outside of work (which requires it).
But FINALLY, my county (Dyer County, TN) will have a mask mandate starting on Mon. I will be interested to see how well that is enforced. Back when Memphis started requiring masks, someone at work made the comment "I guess I'm not going to Memphis anytime soon." She never did anyway, but now what is she going to do? Not come to this county to work? They are required at work anyway, so never understood the conplaint.8 -
cmriverside wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
I think other countries managed to keep most people financially solvent and safe at home, and I'm angry we didn't even really seem to try to do that.
And I think if all of the people who are privileged enough to be able to work from home actually stayed at home and self quarantined as completely as possible, we would be making conditions for essential workers much safer.
Unfortunately, back when we were supposed to be staying at home, people were running to the grocery or big box stores multiple times a week, browsing, going to family and friends houses, arguing about wearing masks. And now people are packing bars and throwing covid parties.
Our country's epically bad handling if this crisis is forcing people who were already struggling to make awful choices between two evils and it sucks. It's historically tragic. And it didn't have to be this way.
I think it DID have to be this way.
Those countries that kept people home? China. We won't go there.
Name another country that isn't an island and that has 300 million people who successfully contained this particular virus.
There isn't one because this virus is not containable. Never has been. It's not like ebola where people show symptoms and then die. You can't trace contacts of a virus that acts like the common cold until three weeks in when people die.
I agree it was destined to be more of a challenge here. But if you look at the numbers, our cases per capita and deaths per capita contradict your post. Most of the EU has it under control. Canada is doing light years better than we are. But the only reason it HAD to be like this in the US is because of where we put our priorities. IMHO it was a choice, and we soothe ourselves by ignoring the other options we had. I can't really say more without getting political.
I'm privileged enough to be able to work from home, but I am now and have always been barely keeping my head above water, so it's hard for me to financially help others. I try my best though. It's frustrating that there's plenty of money out there, it's just not being used to get the people struggling through this. I don't think I'm required to be paying other people's rent to express dissatisfaction with the way our government and corporate America has handled the last 6 months
Most of the EU has it under control.
No.
We're going to have to agree to disagree here. EU didn't do any better job.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
I would venture a guess that we have better reporting than a lot of the countries that fall below us rate-wise. I would also venture a guess that many of those countries are operating behind a veil of partial secrecy/denial/trying to keep the masses calm and their economies as open as possible.
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Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »Our Mayor in Chicago said if the young people don't start wearing masks and practice social distancing, we are going back to Phase 3 which means closing businesses, restaurants, salons and THE GYM!!!!! NOOOOOOOO!!!
I am in NY and we still don't have gyms open even though we are doing way better than most other states!
I work in healthcare and have to wear N95 for 12-15h a day. It does suck, but it is better than spreading the virus. I even developed a really bad face rash because of it the past few weeks. I do find it really hard to breath as I have asthma, but I am allowed to take it off during my breaks when I can go outside which helps.
I've seen a lot of people on bike paths running and biking with masks and don't know how they can do it but if they can while working out, I should be able to with light activity.
We, Illinois, followed NY example. We shutdown fast and started making progress. The cases are rising but not as fast as the Southern states. If everyone can get on the same page we might be able to fight it better
I honestly wanted to believe that the heat would have some impact on this virus, but it's had the opposite affect to a certain extent. Every Southern state rapidly increased in cases, more than the Northern states, once we reopened. But the interesting thing is so did California. CA has terrible air quality in the Summer especially. People stay inside, like the South in the Summer. CA shut down early too. It didn't help them. I just heard their Governor blaming it on mostly the crowds around Memorial Day and the 4th. I don't think that's the case. I think it's more with people spending more time indoors with infected people, being exposed to long term aerosols being pushed around by the air systems.
My concern (and you're seeing more articles about it) is that the Northern States will blow up off the charts in the Fall and Winter, when people are packed inside with indoor ventilation. I strongly believe A/C is moving around the virus in the South right now. It wasn't the crowded beaches. It was the restaurants that people went into after going to the beach or the hotels where they were staying.
Once it started getting very hot and humid in the Midwest, you started to see numbers rising rapidly. Doesn't bode well for opening up schools, which typically have horrid quality mechanical air systems. If schools reopen, I think we'll see numbers skyrocket dramatically. As much as I'd like to see school kids get back to normal, until we have enough testing for contract tracing and get people on board with masks, it's critical we don't open schools.8 -
My sister and her daughter went to Florida (Hotspot) they tested positive today!! Thank God they both are asymptomatic! PLEASE WEAR A MASK and be careful!!!15
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »One of the the larger school districts in our area announced their plan. Parents will make a binding choice for the fall semester
- Child will go to school in person with distancing measures, masks required, etc. Classes will be taught by the district's teachers. If there is an outbreak these kids will be taught remotely by their regular teachers
- Child will remote school. Instruction will be through a 3rd party provider.
This is interesting because I was just asking elsewhere about the plan. If a teacher or student is infected, then everyone who rode the bus or had a class with that person quarantines for 2 weeks? And if one of them ends up sick, does everyone who rode the bus or had a class with that teacher or student quarantine for 2 weeks?
Not to mention that multiple families have more than one child in school. Compound this by what the plan is if someone in class A gets sick and someone in that classroom has a sibling in Class B. Is all of Class B now expected to quarantine? The logistics of this seem almost overwhelming.
Exactly! Just have everyone do virtual. Students without a computer/internet can maybe be sent packets of materials to read and complete.
Kids were already falling behind with e-learning - the answer is not to continue to do so. But what to do we do for those children who don't have parents who can/will keep them not only accountable for doing the work but ensuring that the child has LEARNED the information? If they don't have access to a computer or internet what makes you think they have a parent that has the time, desire, or necessary education to be able to teach that child what they need to know. Packets (and even e-learning/virtual school) will only make the gaps larger between groups of children in terms of the education levels. And then what do we do to help them catch back up? Someone somewhere suggested we just pause all kids for a year. But that is not feasible at ALL. There are no good or easy answers, but kids need to go back to school.2 -
cmriverside wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
I think other countries managed to keep most people financially solvent and safe at home, and I'm angry we didn't even really seem to try to do that.
And I think if all of the people who are privileged enough to be able to work from home actually stayed at home and self quarantined as completely as possible, we would be making conditions for essential workers much safer.
Unfortunately, back when we were supposed to be staying at home, people were running to the grocery or big box stores multiple times a week, browsing, going to family and friends houses, arguing about wearing masks. And now people are packing bars and throwing covid parties.
Our country's epically bad handling if this crisis is forcing people who were already struggling to make awful choices between two evils and it sucks. It's historically tragic. And it didn't have to be this way.
I think it DID have to be this way.
Those countries that kept people home? China. We won't go there.
Name another country that isn't an island and that has 300 million people who successfully contained this particular virus.
There isn't one because this virus is not containable. Never has been. It's not like ebola where people show symptoms and then die. You can't trace contacts of a virus that acts like the common cold until three weeks in when people die.
I agree it was destined to be more of a challenge here. But if you look at the numbers, our cases per capita and deaths per capita contradict your post. Most of the EU has it under control. Canada is doing light years better than we are. But the only reason it HAD to be like this in the US is because of where we put our priorities. IMHO it was a choice, and we soothe ourselves by ignoring the other options we had. I can't really say more without getting political.
I'm privileged enough to be able to work from home, but I am now and have always been barely keeping my head above water, so it's hard for me to financially help others. I try my best though. It's frustrating that there's plenty of money out there, it's just not being used to get the people struggling through this. I don't think I'm required to be paying other people's rent to express dissatisfaction with the way our government and corporate America has handled the last 6 months
Most of the EU has it under control.
No.
We're going to have to agree to disagree here. EU didn't do any better job.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
I would venture a guess that we have better reporting than a lot of the countries that fall below us rate-wise. I would also venture a guess that many of those countries are operating behind a veil of partial secrecy/denial/trying to keep the masses calm and their economies as open as possible.
We will have to agree to disagree because I think your last sentence applies to the US as much as it might anywhere else, and again we veer into political territory here.
And I'm sure we will both continue being dissatisfied while we all go hurtling down the path we are on
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cmriverside wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
I think other countries managed to keep most people financially solvent and safe at home, and I'm angry we didn't even really seem to try to do that.
And I think if all of the people who are privileged enough to be able to work from home actually stayed at home and self quarantined as completely as possible, we would be making conditions for essential workers much safer.
Unfortunately, back when we were supposed to be staying at home, people were running to the grocery or big box stores multiple times a week, browsing, going to family and friends houses, arguing about wearing masks. And now people are packing bars and throwing covid parties.
Our country's epically bad handling if this crisis is forcing people who were already struggling to make awful choices between two evils and it sucks. It's historically tragic. And it didn't have to be this way.
I think it DID have to be this way.
Those countries that kept people home? China. We won't go there.
Name another country that isn't an island and that has 300 million people who successfully contained this particular virus.
There isn't one because this virus is not containable. Never has been. It's not like ebola where people show symptoms and then die. You can't trace contacts of a virus that acts like the common cold until three weeks in when people die.
I agree it was destined to be more of a challenge here. But if you look at the numbers, our cases per capita and deaths per capita contradict your post. Most of the EU has it under control. Canada is doing light years better than we are. But the only reason it HAD to be like this in the US is because of where we put our priorities. IMHO it was a choice, and we soothe ourselves by ignoring the other options we had. I can't really say more without getting political.
I'm privileged enough to be able to work from home, but I am now and have always been barely keeping my head above water, so it's hard for me to financially help others. I try my best though. It's frustrating that there's plenty of money out there, it's just not being used to get the people struggling through this. I don't think I'm required to be paying other people's rent to express dissatisfaction with the way our government and corporate America has handled the last 6 months
Most of the EU has it under control.
No.
We're going to have to agree to disagree here. EU didn't do any better job.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
I would venture a guess that we have better reporting than a lot of the countries that fall below us rate-wise. I would also venture a guess that many of those countries are operating behind a veil of partial secrecy/denial/trying to keep the masses calm and their economies as open as possible.
We will have to agree to disagree because I think your last sentence applies to the US as much as it might anywhere else, and again we veer into political territory here.
And I'm sure we will both continue being dissatisfied while we all go hurtling down the path we are on
Did you look at the Johns Hopkins page I linked? I think we're doing pretty well if you believe those numbers.
It's partly a matter of HOW you look at it. People were going to die. Not even political. Nature. Nature targets the weak and the old. It's always been so.
I'm not saying it's pretty, but it is the truth and no one gets out unscathed.5 -
cmriverside wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
I think other countries managed to keep most people financially solvent and safe at home, and I'm angry we didn't even really seem to try to do that.
And I think if all of the people who are privileged enough to be able to work from home actually stayed at home and self quarantined as completely as possible, we would be making conditions for essential workers much safer.
Unfortunately, back when we were supposed to be staying at home, people were running to the grocery or big box stores multiple times a week, browsing, going to family and friends houses, arguing about wearing masks. And now people are packing bars and throwing covid parties.
Our country's epically bad handling if this crisis is forcing people who were already struggling to make awful choices between two evils and it sucks. It's historically tragic. And it didn't have to be this way.
I think it DID have to be this way.
Those countries that kept people home? China. We won't go there.
Name another country that isn't an island and that has 300 million people who successfully contained this particular virus.
There isn't one because this virus is not containable. Never has been. It's not like ebola where people show symptoms and then die. You can't trace contacts of a virus that acts like the common cold until three weeks in when people die.
I agree it was destined to be more of a challenge here. But if you look at the numbers, our cases per capita and deaths per capita contradict your post. Most of the EU has it under control. Canada is doing light years better than we are. But the only reason it HAD to be like this in the US is because of where we put our priorities. IMHO it was a choice, and we soothe ourselves by ignoring the other options we had. I can't really say more without getting political.
I'm privileged enough to be able to work from home, but I am now and have always been barely keeping my head above water, so it's hard for me to financially help others. I try my best though. It's frustrating that there's plenty of money out there, it's just not being used to get the people struggling through this. I don't think I'm required to be paying other people's rent to express dissatisfaction with the way our government and corporate America has handled the last 6 months
Most of the EU has it under control.
No.
We're going to have to agree to disagree here. EU didn't do any better job.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
I would venture a guess that we have better reporting than a lot of the countries that fall below us rate-wise. I would also venture a guess that many of those countries are operating behind a veil of partial secrecy/denial/trying to keep the masses calm and their economies as open as possible.
We will have to agree to disagree because I think your last sentence applies to the US as much as it might anywhere else, and again we veer into political territory here.
And I'm sure we will both continue being dissatisfied while we all go hurtling down the path we are on
It's partly a matter of HOW you look at it. People were going to die. Not even political. Nature. Nature targets the weak and the old. It's always been so.
It is no longer just the weak and the old though. Unless weak means young healthy people who, from the outside, look as healthy as any athlete but might have something wrong without knowing it. And that could be any one of our children.
It's going to target anybody and everybody. Who's to say who will be able to escape it, unless you're able to stay away from it. 5 -
well no one gets out of this life alive anyway, right? Here in Tx we have masks mandated. It's no secret. I had to go to the post office today. The clerk who helped me? Mask under nose. And heavy sigh. When she started talking to me she pulled her mask down below her mouth because I dunno why.... Anyway, if she is sick and seeing hundreds of customers a day you can do the math. I mean I get that a mask is only a small amount of protection between us but I want every bit of it...15
-
cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
We in Massachusetts are very grateful for our essential workers. I can't drive a mile on a back road without seeing a yard sign expressing thanks. Judging from all the people I know who are also expressing gratitude financially, it goes well beyond this sweet but arguably meaningless gesture. (Or perhaps not meaningless, if these yard signs encourage others to give extra tips to their grocery delivery drivers, etc.)
I don't get your point about masks. I've seen 100% employee mask usage for months now, even before the governor made it mandatory May 6. (We had local ordinances that proceeded that.)
Except for "those two guys in Home Depot" I've seen 100% mask use by customers for months as well, and two of these stores are not in affluent areas.
Yesterday while sitting on a waiting room (with 100% people wearing masks) I caught part of our governor's news conference in which he thanked MA residents at least twice for our mask compliance.
https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/07/16/charlie-baker-stresses-mask-wearing-to-keep-coronavirus-low-in-massachusetts/
...“It’s very clear from the research and the data that face coverings are the most important and significant way to stop the spread” of COVID-19, Baker said in a press conference Thursday at the State House. “The best and most important thing we can all do here in the commonwealth is to continue to wear face coverings.”
The state’s positive test rate has hovered around 2% for roughly two weeks now and is down more than 90% since mid-April, Baker said. Hospitalizations and other key metrics continue to trend in a positive direction as well.
"...my view is masks are a fundamental part of how we contain and fight the virus,” Baker said. “We believe the proposal we put in place, which gives locals the ability to also enforce this order with a variety of means and mechanisms available to them, has worked enormously effectively.”
Baker also rolled out another $19.6 million in federal aid to help 181 communities provide vital services to low-income residents and small businesses with a focus on homelessness prevention, food distribution and training for in-demand health care jobs. The funding builds on the $20 million Emergency Rental and Mortgage Assistant program the administration introduced last month.
As he bolstered housing assistance, Baker said he will decide “soon” on whether to extend a temporary moratorium on evictions and foreclosures that expires Aug. 18.
*******
The choice is not "quarantine poor people" vs "let poor people go back to pre-covid practices." The HEROES Act would help underprivileged people tremendously. It was passed by the House and is languishing in the Senate.
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/heroes-act-policy-overview-and-political-prospects-latest-covid-19-relief-bill
...Worker Protections and Support to Individuals- $200 billion “Heroes’ fund” to provide hazard pay to workers deemed essential during the pandemic.
- Second round of $1,200 stimulus checks to certain Americans, up to $6,000 per household.
- Extends additional $600 per week for unemployment insurance through January 31, 2021.
- Expands the CARES Act’s employee retention tax credit, increasing the credit from 50% to 80% of qualified wages and increasing the employee wage limit from $10,000 per year to $15,000 per quarter.
- Requires the Occupational Safety and Health Administration to require all workplaces to implement infection control plans.
- $3.1 billion for workforce training at the Department of Labor.
- $175 billion in housing assistance, including $100 billion in emergency assistance for low-income renters.
- $10 billion for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program as well as a 15% increase to the maximum SNAP benefit.
- Up to $10,000 in student loan forgiveness.
11 -
cmriverside wrote: »Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
If I had to work around a large number of other people all day, I'd feel even more strongly about people wearing masks, as they would protect me. I'd still want those who could to social distance (and those exposed to quarantine), as the fewer cases in the community the lower the risk to hypothetical me.
The countries that shut down quickly and much harder than we did, that did a lot of testing initially and contact tracing, and that quarantined those returning from other countries only had to shut down for a shorter period of time and now are able to be getting back to normal. Schools seem to be able to operate without risk in countries with low levels of cases (see, e.g., Germany).
Our resistance to doing this means this is dragging out forever, which is going to be a lot harder on essential workers (technically I fall within that category, but I can do most of my stuff from home and my office is safe) and those who have lost their jobs. We could have made the more effective shutdown affordable for everyone by just having the gov pay the salaries during the period of time (I think that's similar to what a number of countries did).11
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