Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

Thoughts on Beyond Burger and other fake meat

1…1314151618

Replies

  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    Factory meat ??

    It's manufactured. Yes, it has natural veggies etc but also has a chemical laxative and artificial preservative. Bottom line, it's not meat; it's a bunch of ingredients blended up and made to imitate meat in a factory.

    Chemical laxative? Artificial preservatives?

    These are the Beyond Burger ingredients: Water, Pea Protein*, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, Rice Protein, Natural Flavors, Cocoa Butter, Mung Bean Protein, Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Apple Extract, Pomegranate Extract, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Vinegar, Lemon Juice Concentrate, Sunflower Lecithin, Beet Juice Extract (for color).

    Can you let me know which ones you're referring to?

    Methylcellulose is a bulk-forming laxative that increases the amount of water in your stools to help make them softer and easier to pass. Methylcellulose is used to treat constipation and to help maintain regular bowel movements.

    Potassium chloride (also known as KCl or potassium salt) is a metal halide salt composed of potassium and chlorine. It is odorless and has a white or colorless vitreous crystal appearance. The solid dissolves readily in water, and its solutions have a salt-like taste.

    In this case it's being used to add some bulk to the burger and it's below the dose needed to provide a laxative effect. So what's the exact concern, given that it's an approved food ingredient?

    It's also basically fiber. Yes, burgers don't normally have fiber, but plenty of plant-based foods do, and cellulose itself is in many of them. Of course this version is manmade, but I don't get why it's meaningfully different. I don't supplement fiber since I get plenty in foods, but many do, and this ingredient is probably the most common way to do so.

    Re the salt, I admit it, I often add salt to my food when cooking (even ground beef!). I've also been known to put pickles (which tend to be high sodium) on a burger, and to put said burger on a, gasp! bun, which of course is not a whole food. Of course, the salt I use is sodium chloride, not potassium chloride, but it's not like potassium is worse for you than sodium (many get told to switch their type of salt by their doctor for health reasons, in fact).

    Yeah, I'm not sure how this is really different than having a protein bar with added fiber. I understand that people who consuming only whole foods would avoid that too, but that restriction doesn't apply to most of us.

    And I agree, adding salt (or higher sodium condiments/toppings) to a burger is pretty routine.
  • CierraEstelle
    CierraEstelle Posts: 30 Member
    They're super delicious, I love them. They have 20 grams of protein per patty, my local Costco has been carrying them. The only thing to watch out for with faux meats is the sodium content. Beyond burger patty has 350 mg.
  • Bluetail6
    Bluetail6 Posts: 2,985 Member
    CierraEstelle wrote: »
    They're super delicious, I love them. They have 20 grams of protein per patty, my local Costco has been carrying them. The only thing to watch out for with faux meats is the sodium content. Beyond burger patty has 350 mg.

    The sodium content makes it a no go for me. That is my personal problem with a lot of processed food in general. The added sodium, sugar, etc. I am only speaking for myself. Becoming a fastidious label reader has been a real eye opener.
  • xGreatWhiteNorthx
    xGreatWhiteNorthx Posts: 335 Member
    I prefer knowing what im eating so the more I can hunt, fish, grow and raise, the better.

    I'd either eat meat, or cut it out. Dont bother with the overprocessed junk.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,284 Member
    xGreatWhiteNorthx wrote: »
    I prefer knowing what im eating so the more I can hunt, fish, grow and raise, the better.

    I'd either eat meat, or cut it out. Dont bother with the overprocessed junk.

    However, as has been pointed out already - the question isnt between Beyond Meat burger and freshly self caught salmon, it is between Beyond Meat burger and meat burger - they are pitching both to fast food consumers and if some of those would prefer a non meat burger, then it will be a sales winner.

  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,261 Member
    While I (a vegetarian) don't find most fake meats tasty or satisfying (so don't eat them), it does seem to me that fake meat discussions almost always trigger someone(s) to come in and comment on how processed, non-"clean", not whole-foods (or something similar) it is . . . in a way that rarely if ever happens when the subject is, say, protein bars, protein powder, or the like.

    There are also vast generalizations made (full of chemicals, for example) that don't suggest a deep understanding of the wide range of things marketed in one way or another as fake meat.

    We could argue all day about whether protein powder is "healthier" than fake meat (which I think is dumb because "healthy" is largely a whole-diet issue IMO, and both protein powder and fake meat are each a huge range of products). But I don't see how most protein powder is less processed, more whole, or maybe even more "clean". (As usual, I have no idea what "clean" is, so I'm not sure. It's one of those "I don't know what 'art' is, but I know what's not, when I see it' things, IMO.)

    For clarity: I think it's fine to eat fake meat or protein powder if you like it, and it fits into the context of an overall nutritious, calorie-appropriate diet.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    paperpudding wrote: »
    xGreatWhiteNorthx wrote: »
    I prefer knowing what im eating so the more I can hunt, fish, grow and raise, the better.

    I'd either eat meat, or cut it out. Dont bother with the overprocessed junk.

    However, as has been pointed out already - the question isnt between Beyond Meat burger and freshly self caught salmon, it is between Beyond Meat burger and meat burger - they are pitching both to fast food consumers and if some of those would prefer a non meat burger, then it will be a sales winner.

    Friday night was date night for me. We went to a bar and I had a beer and a Beyond Burger (outdoors and socially distanced from other diners, of course). The choice on the menu wasn't between a handmade burger from a cow I raised myself with homegrown toppings OR a Beyond Burger, it was between a regular beef hamburger and a Beyond Burger.

    I feel like this context is often missed, so I appreciate you bringing it up. The person who is committed to eating what they catch and grow isn't going to be ordering ANYTHING from a bar menu. I like to eat out sometimes, so the Beyond Burger is an acceptable option for me.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,992 Member
    It's coming sooner now that science is figuring it out. But lab grown meat may be the thing of the future. Less resources used, less animals being killed and the meat can be safer due to controlled system. Now it may not be as tasty since it's only focused on just the lean mean and not fat being grown with it, but that's what ketchup is for. :D

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png
  • sal10851
    sal10851 Posts: 171 Member
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    Sigh.

    You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.

    Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.

    What's the fear about processing?

    Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    sal10851 wrote: »
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    Sigh.

    You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.

    Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.

    What's the fear about processing?

    Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.

    Being mindful doesn't typically work because the serving sizes and calorie loads of foods can be deceiving. I couldn't lose weight while mindfully eating processed foods AND not logging because I didn't realize how many calories I was consuming (and how little I was burning). Now that I weigh and log my food, I am perfectly capable of eating an appropriate amount of food, processed or not, and fit them in my calorie goal.

    In fact, I went through a period of time where I was mindfully eating whole foods and managed to not lose weight then either. Because I'm equally capable of overeating roasted chicken and potatoes :smile:
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,284 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    sal10851 wrote: »
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    Sigh.

    You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.

    Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.

    What's the fear about processing?

    Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.

    And yet I managed to become overweight then obese (and stay that way for decades, even a decade of active training and athletic competition), while eating vegetarian, whole grain, virtually no fast food or soda pop or other things people call "junk food", lots of cooked-from-whole-ingredients dishes, plenty of fruits/veg, and that sort of thing.

    The things most people refer to as "hyperpalatable" generally are not even good or appealing, to me . . . and that's been true for many decades now. It's also why I don't generally eat fake meat: I think it tastes ucky.

    Too many of any calories, high quality or low, result in becoming overweight or obese. Food is tasty. People enjoy eating it. Different people enjoy different types. Any of the types can make a person fat, if there are excess calories.


    and conversely I managed to lose weight and keep it off whilst eating quite a bit of processed food - and quite a bit of fresh ,whole foods too, it isnt all or nothing.

    I didnt really change my diet (as in the foods I eat) to lose weight - just swapped some things for lower calorie alternatives - regualar soda for diet version, for example - and cut out some 'unneccesary extras' like bread with dinner - (nothing agaisnt bread, just didnt need bread and dinner at same time) some mindless snacking (nothing agaisnt snacking either but some was source of over consumption with out real enjoyment) and reduced portion amounts and frequency of some high calorie foods.

    What is the common denominator between our 2 weight loss stories?? - it isnt vegetarianism (since I am not one) , it isnt type of foods since your version is lot 'cleaner' than mine, it isnt activity level since you do more than me, it isnt processed foods or lack thereof - It is eating appropriate calorie level.

    Everything else is variable and individual - CICO is not.

    and none of this really relates to Beyond Burger, since both of us, for different reasons, do not eat them.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,992 Member
    sal10851 wrote: »
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    Sigh.

    You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.

    Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.

    What's the fear about processing?

    Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
    Uh no, it's calories in and out. Go to a prison. How many of the population is obese? And the food quality isn't good quality (it only costs $4 a day to feed an inmate in CA 3 meals a day). And they aren't dying either. In fact many come out of prison in pretty good shape physically.
    Go to 3rd world Asian countries and they have canned processed goods that taste good. Problem is they can't AFFORD to eat too much. Hence they don't have the same obesity issues.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    sal10851 wrote: »
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    Sigh.

    You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.

    Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.

    What's the fear about processing?

    Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.

    "Processed foods" are incredibly varied. Tofu is processed, and while I like it well enough in combination with some other foods, I don't find plain tofu particularly "highly palatable." Same with a variety of other processed foods.

    I also agree with the others saying above that many of the most delicious foods are -- to my taste -- relatively unprocessed (like roasted chicken with potatoes plus some veg, or a fresh salad with homemade dressing, or some grilled salmon). By contrast, I've had leftover Halloween candy since last Halloween, since even though that stuff is processed I don't find it very tempting.

    Rather than focusing just on processed vs unprocessed, a more educated approach would be to understand what the food you are eating brings to the table specifically. (Boneless skinless chicken breast is more processed than a whole chicken, and personally I prefer chicken cooked bone-in, skin on, but the boneless, skinless has more protein per cal and less sat fat, if those are concerns, or depending on what else you are eating them with. Being more processed neither makes the one option less good for you or more delicious.)
  • durhammfp
    durhammfp Posts: 494 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    It's coming sooner now that science is figuring it out. But lab grown meat may be the thing of the future.

    Just in time to go with the lab-grown milk:
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/21/singapores-food-tech-startups-serve-up-lab-grown-milk-fake-shrimp.html

  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    durhammfp wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    It's coming sooner now that science is figuring it out. But lab grown meat may be the thing of the future.

    Just in time to go with the lab-grown milk:
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/21/singapores-food-tech-startups-serve-up-lab-grown-milk-fake-shrimp.html

    I looked into that a bit recently (see the Vegan Milk thread). At least one startup that I looked into that was trying to grow lab meat went under. My best guess is they weren't as close as what they said on the technology and people have shown they will readily eat a plant based product that tastes similar to meat.

    What I found interesting is that by trying to grow meat in a lab, they got much better at individual cell selection and isolation for desired qualities. The group that was trying to grow lab based meat are all with a new startup using bioselection to grow micronutrients from plant based sources.

    I guess I see this industry moving toward a better understanding of what gives meat the taste it has (heme is one thing that the plant burger makers concentrated on). As they get better and better determining what cells within real meat make it taste like it does, they will get better at making alternatives in a lab, but I think they will be plant based, taking qualities from the real thing and either trying to incorporate that or imitating it better, all while reducing the amount of artificial ingredients. I think super nutrient fake burgers made from nutrients that are plant derived (isolated and grown through fermentation) will be the next steps.

    Most of it's done through fermentation. Fermentation, whether for nutraceuticals, medicine or food is a growing area.
  • age_is_just_a_number
    age_is_just_a_number Posts: 631 Member
    Fake meat — I put that in the same category of all highly processed foods.
    For my taste buds, I prefer whole foods that are processed as little as possible.
    I’m an omnivore and eat a variety of foods in moderation.
    Today, we went out for lunch (haven’t done that on a long time); I had a chickpea and quinoa patty, in a tortilla wrap with bacon and Brie cheese. It was delicious.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    edited November 2020
    Good article today on this subject by Forbes. Geared toward investors, but the fact that Tyson is now in the game, that's some telling stuff.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesfinancecouncil/2020/11/02/the-race-for-the-alternative-protein-market-five-investment-areas-to-watch/?sh=2bd3d85d6c6d
  • Maggiesanvicto
    Maggiesanvicto Posts: 70 Member
    edited November 2020
    I personally never expect a plant-based burger to taste like meat. I just want it to be delicious. So a product claiming to taste like meat isn’t really a selling feature for me. I’d rather stick with a plant burger that has clean ingredients and taste great even if that taste is sweet potato or black bean. I couldn’t really see hard-core burger lovers being turned over by fake meat taste either.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.

    https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.

    https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/

    Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!

    (This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)

    I've lost count of how many times I've had to insist "Don't worry about me, I'll find something to eat" when I'm in a group setting (I mean, back when we HAD group outings). It's deeply uncomfortable for me when I feel like the whole group is thinking about what I'm going to eat. I did a couple of work trips with someone who has Celiac Disease and it was a relief to have the focus on HIM when we were deciding on dinner each night (now that I think about it, he probably didn't like it any more than I do).

    I've noticed the pushiness too -- there have been a few times when I've stated that I KNEW what I could eat at a certain place and I was fine going there and someone would still be arguing that we could go someplace "better" for me.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,261 Member
    edited November 2020
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.

    https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/

    Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!

    (This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)

    I've lost count of how many times I've had to insist "Don't worry about me, I'll find something to eat" when I'm in a group setting (I mean, back when we HAD group outings). It's deeply uncomfortable for me when I feel like the whole group is thinking about what I'm going to eat. I did a couple of work trips with someone who has Celiac Disease and it was a relief to have the focus on HIM when we were deciding on dinner each night (now that I think about it, he probably didn't like it any more than I do).

    I've noticed the pushiness too -- there have been a few times when I've stated that I KNEW what I could eat at a certain place and I was fine going there and someone would still be arguing that we could go someplace "better" for me.

    Glad to hear I'm not the only one who's observed this.

    Yeah, I get that it's sort of "intended kindness against my will", but it does seem very odd. (As you might guess from my persona here, I'm more than capable of stating clearly what I want, or don't want, not a shy retiring flower whom one might expect to require support from others to avoid being trampled. I'm flexible in restaurant choice, but not masochistic. 😉)

Categories