Coronavirus prep
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I get most people don't like what I have to say and that's fine. But I do think that people accusing someone of being anti-masking or anti-science and accusing them of throwing a temper tantrum is not only not appropriate for an adult (remember a little kindness goes a long way and you don't have to respond if you don't like what someone said), but emblematic of the problem in our society today. Attacking people should NEVER be ok, and lets face it people do that all the time in this thread even if they don't use a specific name in the comment.
I took a long break from this thread and wish I had not come back because it just reminds me of how mean people are to those who think differently than what is considered acceptable to think.
And to think I once upon a time thought this would be a great community
I repeat myself--give us your solution. And please don't hide behind "Oh, you're all so mean".21 -
I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
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I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
No, I'm saying that people aren't being mean to you--they disagree with you as you disagree with them. I don't think you're mean, but you go round and round in circles--kids in school, mental health, violence...... You admit that there's no good solution. So, I take it you think vunerable people should isolate themselves and everyone else just pretends COVID doesn't exist? Is that correct?11 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I don't understand why the vaccine rollout is so terrible. Sounds like some places have extra doses while other places don't have enough. I feel like the phased approach is holding things back in places with extra doses. Those places where they have enough vaccine, but can't give it to anyone because they haven't been told to go on to the next phase yet. Someone needs to take inventory and just get these shots to people. Maybe deploy the national guards and train them to give injections. 100K soildiers working 12 hrs per day would have these vaccines done much sooner. Only question is supply to do that.
Kind of makes one wonder.... who is coordinating supply for the second doses in 3 or 4 weeks (depending on brand)? Will second dose patients be competing with first dose patients?5 -
snowflake954 wrote: »I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
No, I'm saying that people aren't being mean to you--they disagree with you as you disagree with them. I don't think you're mean, but you go round and round in circles--kids in school, mental health, violence...... You admit that there's no good solution. So, I take it you think vunerable people should isolate themselves and everyone else just pretends COVID doesn't exist? Is that correct?
And what counts as a vulnerable person? I know someone who is 50, only health issue was acid reflux, he just got out of 3 weeks in hospital with covid. Now he is home on oxygen, has to use a walker and lots of new medications for his heart problem. Native Americans are getting hit hard with this; should they all have to isolate?
Another person lost their sense of smell. The FIRST thing they did was run to Walgreens for vitamins...while symptomatic with a highly contagious disease. Is it any wonder this isn't controlled?
Regarding California: I wonder how wide-spread the UK variant is there and if that is contributing to the surge in cases?11 -
I live in Minnesota. I think the situation here may be a good example. Lock down last spring as it was many places. Restrictions eased in early summer. Covid got increasingly worse into fall. Early November, our governor went back to early lockdown restrictions. We steadily improved over this time and on Monday, restrictions were eased. We shall see what happens in the coming days.
Face coverings, social distancing, and good hand washing techniques work for slowing the spread. No one ever said it prevents from getting it, just helps slow the spread. It’s something everyone can do. I would guess no one really enjoys it, but it’s for the common good, showing respect for others. I see no good reason not to comply. It’s little enough that can be done by us to help those across the world caring for the sickest covid patients.16 -
I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
AZ can't ease any more than they have. They are the fastest spreading place in the world right now. Indiana and N and S Dakota can't ease any more.
What's being restricted, other than wearing a mask and limiting occupancy?
BTW, I have this same discussion with my daughter. She's like, "why can't we just go back to how it used to be?". She's super intelligent and compassionate and depressed right now. Probably a lot like you. But right now, she's also not talking sense.
I didn't mean to be so "mean". I'm just frustrated. What do you want to have happen that isn't already happening? Many states have gone completely out of their way for individual rights and have, as a direct result, had more deaths. So what more do you want?
I'm sorry if I came across as too harsh or mean. I'm just frustrated, like you.16 -
Regarding California: I wonder how wide-spread the UK variant is there and if that is contributing to the surge in cases?
So far it doesn't appear to be widespread but I suspect they have to do more testing/sequencing to know for sure
https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/01/07/cdc-reports-22-california-cases-of-coronavirus-variant-first-identified-in-uk/
Most likely the spread is from the holiday family and friend gatherings (as was mentioned earlier on the thread).
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I don't understand why the vaccine rollout is so terrible. Sounds like some places have extra doses while other places don't have enough. I feel like the phased approach is holding things back in places with extra doses. Those places where they have enough vaccine, but can't give it to anyone because they haven't been told to go on to the next phase yet. Someone needs to take inventory and just get these shots to people. Maybe deploy the national guards and train them to give injections. 100K soildiers working 12 hrs per day would have these vaccines done much sooner. Only question is supply to do that.
Kind of makes one wonder.... who is coordinating supply for the second doses in 3 or 4 weeks (depending on brand)? Will second dose patients be competing with first dose patients?
Yes. That's why the original plan was to hold on to half the doses so people could be fully immunized on schedule. Now they have switched to giving more people the first half and worrying about the second dose later. Unfortunately, a lot of people may decide not to go back for the second dose given long lines and limited supply.2 -
snowflake954 wrote: »I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
No, I'm saying that people aren't being mean to you--they disagree with you as you disagree with them. I don't think you're mean, but you go round and round in circles--kids in school, mental health, violence...... You admit that there's no good solution. So, I take it you think vunerable people should isolate themselves and everyone else just pretends COVID doesn't exist? Is that correct?
And what counts as a vulnerable person? I know someone who is 50, only health issue was acid reflux, he just got out of 3 weeks in hospital with covid. Now he is home on oxygen, has to use a walker and lots of new medications for his heart problem. Native Americans are getting hit hard with this; should they all have to isolate?
Another person lost their sense of smell. The FIRST thing they did was run to Walgreens for vitamins...while symptomatic with a highly contagious disease. Is it any wonder this isn't controlled?
Regarding California: I wonder how wide-spread the UK variant is there and if that is contributing to the surge in cases?
Hope your friend gets better.
I'm a bit confused with your post though. You say your friend's only health issue was acid reflux. Now he has a lot of new medications for his heart problem. Did he develop a heart problem while he was in the hospital with Covid? It sounds like he had a heart problem before Covid which by definition would be a comorbidity that from your post he was on medication for prior to contracting Covid. Now on additional meds.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
No, I'm saying that people aren't being mean to you--they disagree with you as you disagree with them. I don't think you're mean, but you go round and round in circles--kids in school, mental health, violence...... You admit that there's no good solution. So, I take it you think vunerable people should isolate themselves and everyone else just pretends COVID doesn't exist? Is that correct?
And what counts as a vulnerable person? I know someone who is 50, only health issue was acid reflux, he just got out of 3 weeks in hospital with covid. Now he is home on oxygen, has to use a walker and lots of new medications for his heart problem. Native Americans are getting hit hard with this; should they all have to isolate?
Another person lost their sense of smell. The FIRST thing they did was run to Walgreens for vitamins...while symptomatic with a highly contagious disease. Is it any wonder this isn't controlled?
Regarding California: I wonder how wide-spread the UK variant is there and if that is contributing to the surge in cases?
Hope your friend gets better.
I'm a bit confused with your post though. You say your friend's only health issue was acid reflux. Now he has a lot of new medications for his heart problem. Did he develop a heart problem while he was in the hospital with Covid? It sounds like he had a heart problem before Covid which by definition would be a comorbidity that from your post he was on medication for prior to contracting Covid. Now on additional meds.
He developed heart problems after being hospitalized.11 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
No, I'm saying that people aren't being mean to you--they disagree with you as you disagree with them. I don't think you're mean, but you go round and round in circles--kids in school, mental health, violence...... You admit that there's no good solution. So, I take it you think vunerable people should isolate themselves and everyone else just pretends COVID doesn't exist? Is that correct?
And what counts as a vulnerable person? I know someone who is 50, only health issue was acid reflux, he just got out of 3 weeks in hospital with covid. Now he is home on oxygen, has to use a walker and lots of new medications for his heart problem. Native Americans are getting hit hard with this; should they all have to isolate?
Another person lost their sense of smell. The FIRST thing they did was run to Walgreens for vitamins...while symptomatic with a highly contagious disease. Is it any wonder this isn't controlled?
Regarding California: I wonder how wide-spread the UK variant is there and if that is contributing to the surge in cases?
Hope your friend gets better.
I'm a bit confused with your post though. You say your friend's only health issue was acid reflux. Now he has a lot of new medications for his heart problem. Did he develop a heart problem while he was in the hospital with Covid? It sounds like he had a heart problem before Covid which by definition would be a comorbidity that from your post he was on medication for prior to contracting Covid. Now on additional meds.
Many recovered COVID patients are showing heart damage that wasn't there before. The last time I looked, they were finding myocardial inflammation in about 60% of recovered patients. This happened to my former boss...super fit guy with no underlying conditions...he had COVID back in late August/early Sept and he's still having issues with myocardial inflammation18 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I don't understand why the vaccine rollout is so terrible. Sounds like some places have extra doses while other places don't have enough. I feel like the phased approach is holding things back in places with extra doses. Those places where they have enough vaccine, but can't give it to anyone because they haven't been told to go on to the next phase yet. Someone needs to take inventory and just get these shots to people. Maybe deploy the national guards and train them to give injections. 100K soildiers working 12 hrs per day would have these vaccines done much sooner. Only question is supply to do that.
Kind of makes one wonder.... who is coordinating supply for the second doses in 3 or 4 weeks (depending on brand)? Will second dose patients be competing with first dose patients?
I admit, I don't have a really clear picture, but locally they seem to be coordinating the "2nd dose" group somewhat differently from the "first dose" people. (And I do know that procedures differ from state to state, and in some cases even by smaller governmental units. Here, the governmental efforts for vaccination delivery seem to be at the county level, with hospital systems and even big retail pharmacies starting to create waiting lists that seem to be in parallel with the county health department's.)
I have a very few friends, and friends of friends, who've shared comments about their experiences on social media. The people who've gotten vaccinated through their employer (like employees of health care entities) are getting their second doses, and seem to have gotten firm appointments for dose 2 at the time they got dose 1. (That doesn't tell us, of course, whether doses were held in reserve for them, vs. coming out of new supply delivery flow.)
The first of the older/high risk public have begun getting vaccinated, and seem to have a firm date or separate process to schedule the 2nd dose, i.e., they aren't being told to go back in the same virtual line as people getting the first dose. Again, no idea how supply's being handled behind the scenes, but I'd infer from what's been said that the 2nd dose group is at least getting a priority on supplies to get the 2nd dose on the proper timing, vs. being in a more general queue of others.
But, like I said, I'm just going from what people I know happened to mention, and what the local health department has communicated.
I think they're doing a decent job, given the situation, with communications. Friends on social media seem to be increasing confusion by fussing about questions (to their friends), but not bothering to follow the health department's social media communications, or use reasonable means to ask the health department questions. (Phoning them with general questions is not reasonable right now, IMO, as phone lines are limited. Email or social media would be reasonable, but probably won't y ield immediate or personal answers, and people are impatient.)6 -
Many recovered COVID patients are showing heart damage that wasn't there before. The last time I looked, they were finding myocardial inflammation in about 60% of recovered patients. This happened to my former boss...super fit guy with no underlying conditions...he had COVID back in late August/early Sept and he's still having issues with myocardial inflammation
I have a friend who had it last spring. She has a dog walking business and was used to walking miles per day. She has been having a lot of trouble resuming her old schedule. She just doesn't feel like she can get a good breath, like there is pressure on her chest, and she gets wiped out if she has a very active day and gets "confusion" when tired. She's had the tests and there's supposedly nothing wrong with her heart or lungs that they can find.
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For a bit of good news, our dear friends down the street, who are 77, got their first shot today.
Just one more item about the economy and it being shut down for Covid -- people are mostly assuming jobs are being lost due to restrictions to prevent Covid. Many I'm talking to (as a recruiter) are losing jobs because Covid is out of control.
My daughter lost her job -- she sold cyber security to hospitals in Ohio, whose budgets are shot now with the Covid onslaught. They are losing money because they can't do the more profitable elective surgeries. My son, on the other hand, lost his job because he couldn't sell solar door to door in CA any longer. I also just placed a woman in Chicago this week that worked for a non-profit healthcare group that had to lay off 200 employees because of the Covid surge there (not because of restrictions). Just as many, or I'd say more, of the layoffs are happening because we failed to contain it, not because of overreaching restrictions.
Fortunately, I guess out of necessity, there have also been jobs created because of Covid -- Peloton, Zoom, Home Depot, Krogers, Amazon for instance, all have excelled during it. Not that I think that's a good thing, but everything shouldn't be blamed on restrictions to prevent it.21 -
@MikePfirrman Spot on!3
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I saw an interview the other day on DW news where a doctor was explaining that it was important for recovering long covid patients not to exceed their exertion window. The example given was if you can run 30 minutes, but only 20 before you feel any strain, stop at 20. He said patients who push themselves recover more slowly.12
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I don't understand why the vaccine rollout is so terrible. Sounds like some places have extra doses while other places don't have enough. I feel like the phased approach is holding things back in places with extra doses. Those places where they have enough vaccine, but can't give it to anyone because they haven't been told to go on to the next phase yet. Someone needs to take inventory and just get these shots to people. Maybe deploy the national guards and train them to give injections. 100K soildiers working 12 hrs per day would have these vaccines done much sooner. Only question is supply to do that.
Just my opinion but I think the problem is this needed to be organized from the top down and it wasn't. And I'd bet some states assumed it would be and we're caught unprepared when it wasn't.
The doctor who gives updates on This Week in Virology works at one of the larger NYC hospitals (I forget which one). He said they were notified back in Nov that they were on the list to get a certain amount of vials for staff vaccinations. So they put a plan together and waited to get more info on timing. And waited. And then 1200 doses of vaccine just showed up on their loading dock one Tues morning in Jan. They had to scramble to look at staff schedules and dept occupancy to come up with a schedule right there on the spot. Luckily they were well organized and they banged out the jabs, but a less well prepared organization might not have been ready.
I agree,they need to get creative getting in trained personnel to administer the shots and less picky about who their giving them to.9 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »For a bit of good news, our dear friends down the street, who are 77, got their first shot today.
Just one more item about the economy and it being shut down for Covid -- people are mostly assuming jobs are being lost due to restrictions to prevent Covid. Many I'm talking to (as a recruiter) are losing jobs because Covid is out of control.
My daughter lost her job -- she sold cyber security to hospitals in Ohio, whose budgets are shot now with the Covid onslaught. They are losing money because they can't do the more profitable elective surgeries. My son, on the other hand, lost his job because he couldn't sell solar door to door in CA any longer. I also just placed a woman in Chicago this week that worked for a non-profit healthcare group that had to lay off 200 employees because of the Covid surge there (not because of restrictions). Just as many, or I'd say more, of the layoffs are happening because we failed to contain it, not because of overreaching restrictions.
Fortunately, I guess out of necessity, there have also been jobs created because of Covid -- Peloton, Zoom, Home Depot, Krogers, Amazon for instance, all have excelled during it. Not that I think that's a good thing, but everything shouldn't be blamed on restrictions to prevent it.
I think hospitals losing money/laying people off is a combination of BOTH those things. Back in spring when this first started the large hospital chain I work for stopped elective procedures because there was a fear of overloading the system and not having space or staff for Covid patients. Then...they didn't get that huge influx of patients they were expecting. For instance my chain usually had anywhere from 1000 to 1200 people IP at a time (over many hospitals) but in covid we were often at half that. That hit them hard that they couldn't do all those elective procedures that really pay the bills and instead were left with hospital censuses that didn't come near what was expected leading to far less money coming in. And now of course there has been an increase in hospitalizations (both those that are customary this time of year and Covid) and they are having to delay those elective procedures that really pay the bills again because they need to save some space for just in case. The restrictions at the begining put a money crunch on many hospitals and that's being exacerbated now leading to some tough choices to be made.4 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I don't understand why the vaccine rollout is so terrible. Sounds like some places have extra doses while other places don't have enough. I feel like the phased approach is holding things back in places with extra doses. Those places where they have enough vaccine, but can't give it to anyone because they haven't been told to go on to the next phase yet. Someone needs to take inventory and just get these shots to people. Maybe deploy the national guards and train them to give injections. 100K soildiers working 12 hrs per day would have these vaccines done much sooner. Only question is supply to do that.
Kind of makes one wonder.... who is coordinating supply for the second doses in 3 or 4 weeks (depending on brand)? Will second dose patients be competing with first dose patients?
Supposedly both Pfizer and Moderna have said supply is ramping up really well and won't be an issue. Take that for what it's worth. The 3 week and 4 week timeline is just a minimum, you can go quite a bit longer if you need to or just forget, if it comes to that. Now they just have to figure out how to get the vaccine out of the vial into an arm faster.
There also "should" be another vaccine (or two) ready to apply for approval soon, and if that happens many of us who have to wait might be assigned to get one of those, to allow Pfizer & Moderna to be used for second doses.
Anyway, "they" keep saying they don't expect supply to be an issue, that it can keep up with however fast shots can be administered, hopefully they are right7
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