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COVID19 - To Vaccinate or To Not Vaccinate
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pfeiferlindsey wrote: »
Arm is super sore today, but I'll take it.
Exactly my thought; better a sore arm than getting COVID.5 -
Frankly I'm enjoying my new tail, it really accentuates my rear like squats never did.15
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hobbitses333 wrote: »pfeiferlindsey wrote: »hobbitses333 wrote: »pfeiferlindsey wrote: »Analog_Kid wrote: »Throughout the pandemic, the US COVID mortality rate has steadily hovered around 0.017%
Since deploying the vaccine, the average mortality rate hasn't changed.
With or without the vaccine, COVID has a 99.98% survival rate.
Those aren't bad odds.
Bad odds? Are you kidding me? I'll entertain your 99.98% survival rate. Out of the survival rate, we still don't know the long term impact of COVID-19. My coworker that "survived" is basically disabled at the moment. Brain swelling, heart swelling, she still has trouble breathing. She MIGHT be able to come back to work in a few weeks with restrictions if the new glasses she got for the double/blurry/prism vision helps and she's not exhausted all the time.
But yes, keep spouting that 99.98% "survive".
Same thing happens to many people from contracting respiratory illnesses EVERY year.
Long term health effects are actually very common. Propaganda parroting is something you are good at.
I have never the same since getting pneumonia over a decade ago for one. I know many more.
Global Frontline Nurses, look em up.
Frankly, unless you have M.D. or PHD behind your name, I couldn't care less about your uneducated opinions about COVID or about long haulers. PS....this same friend has had pneumonia in the past. She did NOT suffer the same long term effects like she is with COVID.
Also, Pot meet Kettle. Telling me I'm a "propaganda parrot" but in the next breath telling me to go look up some QAnon, conspiracy garbage.
Haha Backatcha..where is YOUR Degree? In your remote control I bet...so how you gonna know the vaccine works the survival rate goes to 99.8% from 99.7? DID you research> doubtful. Honestly without your tv and masks you would not have a clue we were in the deadliest pandemic ever.
SO you are not having any symptoms to suggest you are sick, but you better get tested to make sure you are not carrying anything that may make others sick. Even though it didnt make you sick or give you a symptom of sickness, If the flawed test tells you that you are sick, even though you do not have any symptoms make sure you self isolate for weeks on end so you dont give the sickness that didnt make you sick to anyone else, Then make sure to inject yourself with an unapproved experimental shot so you can avoid the sickness you may or may not have that may or may not give you symptoms that you may or may not pass onto others even if you get the shot that likely will actually make you sick. Giv'er!
Disclaimer: I do not have a PHD degree.
I do however have years of experience in health care, and in particular in vaccinations.
I think we would have a big clue that we are in a pandemic by, you know, how many people have become sick and who died.
I dont really need a PHD to see that.
Nor to understand aysmptomatic spread or the principles of vaccination.
Yes if you have been in close contact with a covid case get tested and self isolate as recomended - Im not aware of any weeks on end recomendations - 2 weeks here for high risk scenarios - until negative test confirmed for low risk scenarios.
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hobbitses333 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »The story of one of the cases of death after the Astra vaccine is this: A military family man, 43 yrs old, in apparent good health, was vaccinated in the morning. He took his son to soccer practice as usual, and even played a bit with the boy. Late afternoon started to feel a little off, headache, etc., so took a Tylenol type tablet (as told to if there are light symptoms). During the night his wife said he suddenly felt awful and she called an ambulance. He died quickly.
Now, the story was told the day after by the widow on national TV. She said she was not against the vaccine, seemed very level-headed, but wanted to know what killed her husband. Now we still don't have the autopsy report--it was said it would take 2 weeks and now it's about that. The vaccinations were halted to stop panic. They needed more information to go forward. After a few days of study of the other cases, it was decided to proceed. I think they did the right thing, at least in Italy. It's a hard call.
And yes, I will get the vaccine when I'm up (my BIL is a doctor and after all he's seen, you don't want to take your chances with COVID). I will take any of the vaccines, AstraZeneca included.
People die unexpectedly, and when you have the whole world getting vaccinated at the same time, you're bound to have some of those unexpected deaths happen soon after but unrelated to the shot.
So there's good reason to think it was almost certainly unrelated, but you also want to err in the side of caution. But you also don't want to slow vaccination rates when dealing with a global pandemic. I do not envy the people who need to make these decisions!
Yep! Correlation or coincidence does not equal causation. Even when accounting for the *rare* or more dangerous types of clots, the incidence is still less than in the general population.
--Just because the correlation MIGHT NOT imply causation doesn't mean that it CAN'T imply causation. All that argument does is cast DOUBT upon the theory; not invalidate it. It doesn't actually disprove the theory. try doing some actual research beyond the remote control.
unless any of us are actually in the field of research ( call it a hunch - but I somehow suspect that is not you
) then none of us are actually doing our own research
We are at most reviewing the research done by researchers - so this 'do your own research' catch cry is a real furphy.
Investigators did investigate the possibility of AZ vaccine being a factor in clot formation - and the vaccine program was rightly paused until it was cleared.
Some people thought pausing the program caused doubt in the community - and perhaps it did for some. Certainly gave anti vaxxers something to latch on to - not that most of them need much.
My thought is that it gave me more confidence in the vaccine, not less - because it was investigated as a precautionary measure and has now been proven unfounded.
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hobbitses333 wrote: »pfeiferlindsey wrote: »hobbitses333 wrote: »pfeiferlindsey wrote: »Analog_Kid wrote: »Throughout the pandemic, the US COVID mortality rate has steadily hovered around 0.017%
Since deploying the vaccine, the average mortality rate hasn't changed.
With or without the vaccine, COVID has a 99.98% survival rate.
Those aren't bad odds.
Bad odds? Are you kidding me? I'll entertain your 99.98% survival rate. Out of the survival rate, we still don't know the long term impact of COVID-19. My coworker that "survived" is basically disabled at the moment. Brain swelling, heart swelling, she still has trouble breathing. She MIGHT be able to come back to work in a few weeks with restrictions if the new glasses she got for the double/blurry/prism vision helps and she's not exhausted all the time.
But yes, keep spouting that 99.98% "survive".
Same thing happens to many people from contracting respiratory illnesses EVERY year.
Long term health effects are actually very common. Propaganda parroting is something you are good at.
I have never the same since getting pneumonia over a decade ago for one. I know many more.
Global Frontline Nurses, look em up.
Frankly, unless you have M.D. or PHD behind your name, I couldn't care less about your uneducated opinions about COVID or about long haulers. PS....this same friend has had pneumonia in the past. She did NOT suffer the same long term effects like she is with COVID.
Also, Pot meet Kettle. Telling me I'm a "propaganda parrot" but in the next breath telling me to go look up some QAnon, conspiracy garbage.
Haha Backatcha..where is YOUR Degree? In your remote control I bet...so how you gonna know the vaccine works the survival rate goes to 99.8% from 99.7? DID you research> doubtful. Honestly without your tv and masks you would not have a clue we were in the deadliest pandemic ever.
SO you are not having any symptoms to suggest you are sick, but you better get tested to make sure you are not carrying anything that may make others sick. Even though it didnt make you sick or give you a symptom of sickness, If the flawed test tells you that you are sick, even though you do not have any symptoms make sure you self isolate for weeks on end so you dont give the sickness that didnt make you sick to anyone else, Then make sure to inject yourself with an unapproved experimental shot so you can avoid the sickness you may or may not have that may or may not give you symptoms that you may or may not pass onto others even if you get the shot that likely will actually make you sick. Giv'er!
Yikes... I think you’ve over-served yourself. Step awaaay from the kool aid!
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I've had so many vaccines in my life - probably more than most because I've even been vaccinated for rabies and small pox. I think I have had 4 shots in the past 12 months (tetanus and an antibiotic for a dog bite, flu and covid). None of them have killed me yet so I doubt this one will be different.
I do feel like I am in a bit of limbo though as we are spacing out the shots here in Canada so I've had my first but my second isn't until the end of June. Do I get my micro-chip with the next one?6 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »The story of one of the cases of death after the Astra vaccine is this: A military family man, 43 yrs old, in apparent good health, was vaccinated in the morning. He took his son to soccer practice as usual, and even played a bit with the boy. Late afternoon started to feel a little off, headache, etc., so took a Tylenol type tablet (as told to if there are light symptoms). During the night his wife said he suddenly felt awful and she called an ambulance. He died quickly.
Now, the story was told the day after by the widow on national TV. She said she was not against the vaccine, seemed very level-headed, but wanted to know what killed her husband. Now we still don't have the autopsy report--it was said it would take 2 weeks and now it's about that. The vaccinations were halted to stop panic. They needed more information to go forward. After a few days of study of the other cases, it was decided to proceed. I think they did the right thing, at least in Italy. It's a hard call.
And yes, I will get the vaccine when I'm up (my BIL is a doctor and after all he's seen, you don't want to take your chances with COVID). I will take any of the vaccines, AstraZeneca included.
People die unexpectedly, and when you have the whole world getting vaccinated at the same time, you're bound to have some of those unexpected deaths happen soon after but unrelated to the shot.
So there's good reason to think it was almost certainly unrelated, but you also want to err in the side of caution. But you also don't want to slow vaccination rates when dealing with a global pandemic. I do not envy the people who need to make these decisions!
Yep! Correlation or coincidence does not equal causation. Even when accounting for the *rare* or more dangerous types of clots, the incidence is still less than in the general population.
--Just because the correlation MIGHT NOT imply causation doesn't mean that it CAN'T imply causation. All that argument does is cast DOUBT upon the theory; not invalidate it. It doesn't actually disprove the theory. try doing some actual research beyond the remote control.
I find it very hard to believe that you do not know ANYONE that has gotten COVID. How did that go for them?3 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »The story of one of the cases of death after the Astra vaccine is this: A military family man, 43 yrs old, in apparent good health, was vaccinated in the morning. He took his son to soccer practice as usual, and even played a bit with the boy. Late afternoon started to feel a little off, headache, etc., so took a Tylenol type tablet (as told to if there are light symptoms). During the night his wife said he suddenly felt awful and she called an ambulance. He died quickly.
Now, the story was told the day after by the widow on national TV. She said she was not against the vaccine, seemed very level-headed, but wanted to know what killed her husband. Now we still don't have the autopsy report--it was said it would take 2 weeks and now it's about that. The vaccinations were halted to stop panic. They needed more information to go forward. After a few days of study of the other cases, it was decided to proceed. I think they did the right thing, at least in Italy. It's a hard call.
And yes, I will get the vaccine when I'm up (my BIL is a doctor and after all he's seen, you don't want to take your chances with COVID). I will take any of the vaccines, AstraZeneca included.
People die unexpectedly, and when you have the whole world getting vaccinated at the same time, you're bound to have some of those unexpected deaths happen soon after but unrelated to the shot.
So there's good reason to think it was almost certainly unrelated, but you also want to err in the side of caution. But you also don't want to slow vaccination rates when dealing with a global pandemic. I do not envy the people who need to make these decisions!
Yep! Correlation or coincidence does not equal causation. Even when accounting for the *rare* or more dangerous types of clots, the incidence is still less than in the general population.
--Just because the correlation MIGHT NOT imply causation doesn't mean that it CAN'T imply causation. All that argument does is cast DOUBT upon the theory; not invalidate it. It doesn't actually disprove the theory. try doing some actual research beyond the remote control.
Why do you keep talking about the "remote control"? What does that have to do with anything? Are you trying to be clever or just a troll?
Your retort of "where's your degree?" does nothing to further your argument, just to prove that you're an anti-vaxxer who gets their information from untrustworthy or unverified sites. Look, if you're listening to the likes of Scott Atlas to get your knowledge, you're not doing it right.12 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »pfeiferlindsey wrote: »hobbitses333 wrote: »pfeiferlindsey wrote: »Analog_Kid wrote: »Throughout the pandemic, the US COVID mortality rate has steadily hovered around 0.017%
Since deploying the vaccine, the average mortality rate hasn't changed.
With or without the vaccine, COVID has a 99.98% survival rate.
Those aren't bad odds.
Bad odds? Are you kidding me? I'll entertain your 99.98% survival rate. Out of the survival rate, we still don't know the long term impact of COVID-19. My coworker that "survived" is basically disabled at the moment. Brain swelling, heart swelling, she still has trouble breathing. She MIGHT be able to come back to work in a few weeks with restrictions if the new glasses she got for the double/blurry/prism vision helps and she's not exhausted all the time.
But yes, keep spouting that 99.98% "survive".
Same thing happens to many people from contracting respiratory illnesses EVERY year.
Long term health effects are actually very common. Propaganda parroting is something you are good at.
I have never the same since getting pneumonia over a decade ago for one. I know many more.
Global Frontline Nurses, look em up.
Frankly, unless you have M.D. or PHD behind your name, I couldn't care less about your uneducated opinions about COVID or about long haulers. PS....this same friend has had pneumonia in the past. She did NOT suffer the same long term effects like she is with COVID.
Also, Pot meet Kettle. Telling me I'm a "propaganda parrot" but in the next breath telling me to go look up some QAnon, conspiracy garbage.
Haha Backatcha..where is YOUR Degree? In your remote control I bet...so how you gonna know the vaccine works the survival rate goes to 99.8% from 99.7? DID you research> doubtful. Honestly without your tv and masks you would not have a clue we were in the deadliest pandemic ever.
SO you are not having any symptoms to suggest you are sick, but you better get tested to make sure you are not carrying anything that may make others sick. Even though it didnt make you sick or give you a symptom of sickness, If the flawed test tells you that you are sick, even though you do not have any symptoms make sure you self isolate for weeks on end so you dont give the sickness that didnt make you sick to anyone else, Then make sure to inject yourself with an unapproved experimental shot so you can avoid the sickness you may or may not have that may or may not give you symptoms that you may or may not pass onto others even if you get the shot that likely will actually make you sick. Giv'er!
"unapproved"? Who's taking a vaccine that hasn't been approved? Who are you waiting on approval from?
You can't even make a coherent point anymore. This is just getting sad.10 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »The story of one of the cases of death after the Astra vaccine is this: A military family man, 43 yrs old, in apparent good health, was vaccinated in the morning. He took his son to soccer practice as usual, and even played a bit with the boy. Late afternoon started to feel a little off, headache, etc., so took a Tylenol type tablet (as told to if there are light symptoms). During the night his wife said he suddenly felt awful and she called an ambulance. He died quickly.
Now, the story was told the day after by the widow on national TV. She said she was not against the vaccine, seemed very level-headed, but wanted to know what killed her husband. Now we still don't have the autopsy report--it was said it would take 2 weeks and now it's about that. The vaccinations were halted to stop panic. They needed more information to go forward. After a few days of study of the other cases, it was decided to proceed. I think they did the right thing, at least in Italy. It's a hard call.
And yes, I will get the vaccine when I'm up (my BIL is a doctor and after all he's seen, you don't want to take your chances with COVID). I will take any of the vaccines, AstraZeneca included.
People die unexpectedly, and when you have the whole world getting vaccinated at the same time, you're bound to have some of those unexpected deaths happen soon after but unrelated to the shot.
So there's good reason to think it was almost certainly unrelated, but you also want to err in the side of caution. But you also don't want to slow vaccination rates when dealing with a global pandemic. I do not envy the people who need to make these decisions!
Yep! Correlation or coincidence does not equal causation. Even when accounting for the *rare* or more dangerous types of clots, the incidence is still less than in the general population.
--Just because the correlation MIGHT NOT imply causation doesn't mean that it CAN'T imply causation. All that argument does is cast DOUBT upon the theory; not invalidate it. It doesn't actually disprove the theory. try doing some actual research beyond the remote control.
When the data do not support a hypothesis, then that hypothesis is rejected. This is how research is done. The data do not support the hypothesis that the AZ vaccine causes blood clots. I actually work in healthcare and was on the frontlines of the pandemic caring for Covid patients. I bet that’s more than you can say.15 -
Europe is behind on vaccinations and people are dying because of anti-vaccine propaganda. Anti-vaccine rhetoric is not harmless.17
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hobbitses333 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »The story of one of the cases of death after the Astra vaccine is this: A military family man, 43 yrs old, in apparent good health, was vaccinated in the morning. He took his son to soccer practice as usual, and even played a bit with the boy. Late afternoon started to feel a little off, headache, etc., so took a Tylenol type tablet (as told to if there are light symptoms). During the night his wife said he suddenly felt awful and she called an ambulance. He died quickly.
Now, the story was told the day after by the widow on national TV. She said she was not against the vaccine, seemed very level-headed, but wanted to know what killed her husband. Now we still don't have the autopsy report--it was said it would take 2 weeks and now it's about that. The vaccinations were halted to stop panic. They needed more information to go forward. After a few days of study of the other cases, it was decided to proceed. I think they did the right thing, at least in Italy. It's a hard call.
And yes, I will get the vaccine when I'm up (my BIL is a doctor and after all he's seen, you don't want to take your chances with COVID). I will take any of the vaccines, AstraZeneca included.
People die unexpectedly, and when you have the whole world getting vaccinated at the same time, you're bound to have some of those unexpected deaths happen soon after but unrelated to the shot.
So there's good reason to think it was almost certainly unrelated, but you also want to err in the side of caution. But you also don't want to slow vaccination rates when dealing with a global pandemic. I do not envy the people who need to make these decisions!
Yep! Correlation or coincidence does not equal causation. Even when accounting for the *rare* or more dangerous types of clots, the incidence is still less than in the general population.
--Just because the correlation MIGHT NOT imply causation doesn't mean that it CAN'T imply causation. All that argument does is cast DOUBT upon the theory; not invalidate it. It doesn't actually disprove the theory. try doing some actual research beyond the remote control.
The definition of "research" is not "follow a daisy chain of fringe speculators who recommend vids/articles by other fringe speculators". It's not even the definition of decent amateur self-education about a topic.
I admit, I don't know how you personally do "research", but I have a couple of real life social connections who've posted some things similar to what you've posted here, and they've definitely done "follow a daisy chain of fringe speculators who recommend vids/articles by other fringe speculators". (I've watched them do it, via social media.)
Their sources are rife with quasi-anonymous spokes-somebodies with not-terribly-relevant credentials; opaque organizations (no real life people contacts, executives, etc.); groups or anonymous social media "people" with flag-wavy dramatic names and slogans but also few credible credentials; organizations with no decent back story; groups with names that suggest they represent thousands, but seem only to have a tiny handful of active participants from among those purported thousands; content that misrepresents basic science we all should have learned in 6th grade or so; misapplication of statistics and sometimes even simple arithmetic; even posts that misunderstand and blatantly mis-state the content of an actual article or research they're claiming as their evidence; and that sort of thing.
As I said before, I think a curious, self-education-motivated person will explore sources that *disagree* with their going-in premises . . . seek those out, even; and for sure give them an open-minded, thoughtful reading.
As I also said before, I did that with the things that some of my real-life contacts posted - things that sounded unlike my beliefs - in how they looked at Covid, the pandemic, the vaccine. I looked at those things (which should be counter-evidence to my pre-existing beliefs), I looked at counter-evidence to those things. The things those folks posted fell apart like a house of cards in a mild breeze, because of red flags like those I mentioned a couple of paragraphs back, and lack of support for their ideas from anything other than those sources' other true believers.
Now, I still actively look for critiques of my beliefs, but I no longer follow up things those contacts post or say, because I know their intellectual standards are so low, they're wasting my time. Yes, someday they could say something useful, as in the "boy who cried 'wolf'" story. I'm willing to take that risk, especially when I'm still looking for *rational*, science-based critiques of my beliefs, in more logical places to find them.16 -
@hobbitses333 The mortality rate for Covid is higher than you have stated by a factor of 100. That means it is 100 times, not 100 percent, higher than you claim. I have pointed this out to you and you keep repeating this, so you are not mistaken, you are lying. Lying is bad and it makes everything else you say wrong.
Who are you trying to benefit with your lies? Who is going to be helped by people dying?
At this point you are questioning the germ theory of disease, which a majority of sane humans have accepted since about the turn of the 20th century. Yes, tiny invisible bits of RNA called viruses can make you sick. If you have ever had any viral illness you should realize, it wasn’t caused by witchcraft or cell phone towers, it was a virus, and Covid is a virus. Viruses are passed from infected people to not-infected people, and the infected people are not always sick at the time. That’s how this works. It’s one reason surgeons wear masks, because someone figured out in about 1850 that coughing into someone’s abdominal cavity could make them sick, even if the doctor wasn’t sick.
I realize MFP moderation seems to have decided to stay out of this, but really at this point you and your aggressive lies shouldn’t be tolerable in a public forum. If they can delete people who advocate eating 800 calories because that kills people, they should be doing the same to someone like you who is trying to kill people.18 -
Just look at Israel’s COVID numbers - they are at about 60% vaccinated and the cases are plummeting. It is so nice to see that and see some light at the end of this tunnel. We just can’t get these vaccines in arms fast enough.9
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Correct me if I am wrong - but same applies on a more or less degree in all places which were high Covid community spread - ie US, UK etc - vaccianation programs may not have reached 60% but they have reached a level enough to be now denting the Covid numbers downward
I cant see any other reason for this downward trend - it isnt tighter restrictions slowing spread because most places are gradually loosening restrictions, not tightening them
( I live in Australia - our vaccination program is still in its infancy -but we did not have the Covid community spread to start with)1 -
Just look at Israel’s COVID numbers - they are at about 60% vaccinated and the cases are plummeting. It is so nice to see that and see some light at the end of this tunnel. We just can’t get these vaccines in arms fast enough.
Graph comparing Israel, USA and EU. EU trend is concerning and USA is not seeing a drop of late.
3 -
if am following that graph correctly, US has dropped significantly since mid Jan - although now seeing a slight rise (due to too early lifting of restrictions??)
Disappointing about EU1 -
What's happening in my state (WA, in the U.S.) is that the restrictions are loosening, but cases aren't going down, AAMOF they are on the uptick right now due to variants and loosening restrictions.
Hospitalizations and deaths are going down, mostly because the older people are now about 70% covered with at least one vaccine shot. They are the ones who are driving the hospitalization and death numbers.
Right now the highest rate of infection in my state is the 20-34 year olds by quite a large margin.
6
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