Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

COVID19 - To Vaccinate or To Not Vaccinate

1910111315

Replies

  • This content has been removed.
  • This content has been removed.
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 8,399 Member
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    The story of one of the cases of death after the Astra vaccine is this: A military family man, 43 yrs old, in apparent good health, was vaccinated in the morning. He took his son to soccer practice as usual, and even played a bit with the boy. Late afternoon started to feel a little off, headache, etc., so took a Tylenol type tablet (as told to if there are light symptoms). During the night his wife said he suddenly felt awful and she called an ambulance. He died quickly.

    Now, the story was told the day after by the widow on national TV. She said she was not against the vaccine, seemed very level-headed, but wanted to know what killed her husband. Now we still don't have the autopsy report--it was said it would take 2 weeks and now it's about that. The vaccinations were halted to stop panic. They needed more information to go forward. After a few days of study of the other cases, it was decided to proceed. I think they did the right thing, at least in Italy. It's a hard call.

    And yes, I will get the vaccine when I'm up (my BIL is a doctor and after all he's seen, you don't want to take your chances with COVID). I will take any of the vaccines, AstraZeneca included.

    People die unexpectedly, and when you have the whole world getting vaccinated at the same time, you're bound to have some of those unexpected deaths happen soon after but unrelated to the shot.

    So there's good reason to think it was almost certainly unrelated, but you also want to err in the side of caution. But you also don't want to slow vaccination rates when dealing with a global pandemic. I do not envy the people who need to make these decisions!

    Yep! Correlation or coincidence does not equal causation. Even when accounting for the *rare* or more dangerous types of clots, the incidence is still less than in the general population.

    --Just because the correlation MIGHT NOT imply causation doesn't mean that it CAN'T imply causation. All that argument does is cast DOUBT upon the theory; not invalidate it. It doesn't actually disprove the theory. try doing some actual research beyond the remote control.

    I find it very hard to believe that you do not know ANYONE that has gotten COVID. How did that go for them?
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,302 Member
    Correct me if I am wrong - but same applies on a more or less degree in all places which were high Covid community spread - ie US, UK etc - vaccianation programs may not have reached 60% but they have reached a level enough to be now denting the Covid numbers downward

    I cant see any other reason for this downward trend - it isnt tighter restrictions slowing spread because most places are gradually loosening restrictions, not tightening them

    ( I live in Australia - our vaccination program is still in its infancy -but we did not have the Covid community spread to start with)
  • Theo166
    Theo166 Posts: 2,564 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »
    Just look at Israel’s COVID numbers - they are at about 60% vaccinated and the cases are plummeting. It is so nice to see that and see some light at the end of this tunnel. We just can’t get these vaccines in arms fast enough.

    Graph comparing Israel, USA and EU. EU trend is concerning and USA is not seeing a drop of late.
    4qgwy9nxnnj2.png
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,302 Member
    if am following that graph correctly, US has dropped significantly since mid Jan - although now seeing a slight rise (due to too early lifting of restrictions??)
    Disappointing about EU
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 8,399 Member
    Vaccines ordered by the European Union (especially Astra Zeneca), are not being delivered as promised by pharmaceutical companies. They are sending vaccines elsewhere and shorting the European orders. Italy just uncovered an Astra factory that has millions of doses set to ship out of the country. The shipping was blocked by the EU. Until the orders promised are fulfilled, this will happen.

    That could explain your graph above.
  • 33gail33
    33gail33 Posts: 1,155 Member
    edited March 2021

    @paperpudding
    Idk about the US tbh I was just looking at Israel because I believe they were quickest out the gate with vaccines and it is giving me hope. I am in Canada. Our cases are spiking again we have very few vaccinated.
  • This content has been removed.
  • Theo166
    Theo166 Posts: 2,564 Member
    edited March 2021
    Hospitalizations and deaths are going down, mostly because the older people are now about 70% covered with at least one vaccine shot. They are the ones who are driving the hospitalization and death numbers.
    I think WA is in synch with the nation, new cases are rising a bit but deaths keep dropping. While the cases may be sensational, dropping deaths is what really matters. The vaccine must be going to the most vulnerable.

    Below is the chart on new deaths, with the EU again looking problematic

    yay1a7g6lsfl.png
  • This content has been removed.
  • This content has been removed.
This discussion has been closed.