Coronavirus prep

Earlier, I was going to post about how my husband's family had a relative die last night in Italy and how I have sympathies for families who are unable to properly morn the loss of their family member. This morning, the phone report was that the he was on a "table in the cemetery", which I have to assume is a morgue, and that no one was allowed to see him nor services allowed. Just now, heard more from my MIL. The husband had gotten his COVID vaccination yesterday, did not feel good, went to bed and never woke up. Of course the speculation has already begun. He was 56.

MikePfirrman wrote: »

Sorry I haven't been on lately. Just thought I'd share what happened to me today.

I go to a very busy chiropractic chain. It opens at 10 AM and you don't have appointments, so it's first come, first serve. I can have 10 in line within the first five minutes of opening, so I normally get there early.

I've been wearing my mask, even though I'm fully vaccinated. I got there today and I was fourth in line. One lady was first, she was off to the left. Then there was a couple in front of me. I'd guess in their 30's or early 40s.

I'm waiting, in line, for it to open up. As I'm standing there, looking at my phone, I can feel the guy in front of me looking at me, then I start to hear him chirping up to his girlfriend or wife. You can hear, "sheep", "Fauci", you know the typical things of people that are anti-mask. It doesn't bother that much, to be honest.

But then things changed. He starts speaking up and raising his voice at me, "hey you...". After three times, I turn around and it's obvious he's talking to me. So I say, "me?". "Yeah, you", he says. "You vaccinated?", he asks. I say, yeah, yeah I am. "Then why you wearing a mask, because Fauci told you to?".

You have to understand, I'm normally a calm person, but I grew up in the semi hood. I'm starting to get very ticked off at this point. So I said something to the extent of "it's my right to wear a mask". He continues on me. The other people in line start to talk to him to. They are not happy either. He continues on me until, unfortunately, I tell him, "same as your right to be a douch-b". Then he tries to say I was too close to his girlfriend in line. Which wasn't true, but at this point, it's clear he's just trying to pick a fight. I also said it's none of his flippin business why I wear a mask.

At this point, before things escalate, I tapped on the door and asked to be let in because I was being harrassed for wearing a mask.
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I still let the other three go ahead of me when they opened. I know the desk people and the chiropractors and they were not happy either that I was harrassed. I remained calm for me.

My wife wasn't happy that I said anything. She's always worried some loose cannon will pull a gun on you. IDK, I was boiling mad for hours.

This post is going to sound like I don't empathize, but I do. (Why do people think it's OK to confront strangers, in the way he did, when there's no conceivable harm to him or his from your behavior? Ugh.)

But:

It would be sorely tempting to answer "You vaccinated?" with the inaccurate answer that some of my anti-mask, pandemic conspiracy theorist acquaintances have advanced about refusing to prove vaccination status to businesses: "I don't have to tell you because that's private, protected health information under HIPAA." 😉

(For those who don't know: Private, non-healthcare businesses are not "covered entities" under HIPAA. With respect to that law, stores (or arenas, etc.) can ask about vaccination status, refuse service if one refuses to answer or provide whatever proof they require. Only covered entities - health plans (insurance companies, HMOs, things like Medicare or VHA-type military/veteran programs), healthcare providers, and healthcare clearinghouses - are regulated by HIPAA, and even then it's more about what they can reveal to 3rd parties rather than what they can require of people they cover.)

Thanks everyone for your kind and considerate comments. I'm much better today. Just shook me up a bit yesterday for a while.

I believe, looking back on it, I'm a very inquisitive person. When I walked up on the building, I saw the one lady with the mask and them without one. I didn't think I looked judgemental at all, but I did look at them, and then, out of curiousity more than anything (because I had just been in the grocery store where around 60% of the people were unmasked), looked to see if they still required a mask or not at the chiropractor. To be honest, it really didn't matter to me either way.

Perhaps he thought I was judging him or something, IDK.

What I think I did right was asking the desk if I could go inside. I also still let that couple go ahead of me when they got inside (and the nice lady that also stood up to him with me).

What I regret is replying with anger and using profanity. That wasn't necessary. My wife (and daughter right now, who went through a lot with Covid) are very reliant on me currently. Doing anything that could have put me in any jeopardy of any kind was selfish.

I suppose if it were to ever happen again, I'd simply say, "it's within my rights to wear a mask" and shut up from there. Call the police if anything else happened. But I'd certainly protect myself if I had to. I could also leave as well, which would also be smart.

@missysippy930 -- I hope your husband is doing better. I'm so sorry to hear about that.

mockchoc wrote: »

SModa61 wrote: »

Earlier, I was going to post about how my husband's family had a relative die last night in Italy and how I have sympathies for families who are unable to properly morn the loss of their family member. This morning, the phone report was that the he was on a "table in the cemetery", which I have to assume is a morgue, and that no one was allowed to see him nor services allowed. Just now, heard more from my MIL. The husband had gotten his COVID vaccination yesterday, did not feel good, went to bed and never woke up. Of course the speculation has already begun. He was 56.

OMG I don't know what to think. This is so horrible. Big hugs to you all there.

@mockchoc thank you for your kind words. This morning, I am grateful to have seen a facebook notification indicating that the family will get a church service, but limited or no visitation (google translate is only so good). Having a funeral service is so much more than many families have gotten this past year.

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

SuzySunshine99 wrote: »

mockchoc wrote: »

From some one that has no Covid here I'm still wondering why it's a problem to wear masks, get your vaccination and stay away from others as much as you can till this is all better. Guess I don't get it but that is what I was doing when we had a close call. Do the right things and you'll be safe. I did it all too when needed and it wasn't so needed lol.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued guidance recently that fully vaccinated individuals do not need to wear masks or distance in most situations, unless local ordinances or private businesses mandate it. This is the official position of the federal government, so that is why people are starting to remove their masks, and many businesses are easing their requirements.

I personally believe this guidance was a bit premature and went a bit too far. I am fully vaccinated, but still mask and distance in any indoor public setting. I do not wear my mask outdoors or in indoor private gatherings with other people who I know to be vaccinated. It is very nice to see my vaccinated friends and family without having to sit outside, or worry about how far apart we are sitting, or try to have a conversation while yelling through masks.

And I don't see any point in the foreseeable future when this is "all better". We will be dealing with this for many years so we'll have to learn to live with it, balancing safety with life enjoyment.

Not arguing with this but just a point for discussion, everyone who is vaxed can do what they want regarding masks IMO.

When the CDC said masks were needed to prevent spread, the CDC was "right", and people should follow science. Now that the same organization is relaxing standards, again based on science, why is the CDC being questioned?

I don't question the science behind their statement. But, that assumes that everyone is in 100% compliance, and that only fully vaccinated people are loosening their restrictions. That is not what is happening.

In the previous guidance, which said that EVERYONE should wear masks, there was no ambiguity, no loopholes, no excuses.

Now by saying that SOME people can shed their masks, it just opens the door to everyone doing it. With no way to verify someone's vaccination status, most businesses have no choice but to go with the "honor system" in regards to mask requirements.

With less than half the country fully vaccinated, I thought it was too early for the CDC to issue this guidance. Maybe a scaled-back version similar to what I have decided to do...If you are fully vaccinated, you can go maskless outdoors, or gathering indoors with other vaccinated people. But still mask in indoor public settings. This would have allowed businesses to keep their mask rules without a fight.

Here in PA, the Governor still says to wear a mask indoors until 70% of the adult population is vaccinated, or until the end of June, whichever comes first. They also say to follow CDC guidelines, which say that if you are vaccinated, you don't need to wear a mask. Confusing. Some businesses still have the signs up saying "Mask Required". Some say, "Masks not required for vaccinated people." Others have no indication. One I liked said, "Masks respected." In the stores, mask wearing varies a lot. Vaccination numbers are low in my county - about 35% - but I think many of those not wearing a mask are also people who didn't get vaccinated. In some cases it's because they got the virus itself so don't think it's necessary. I don't know what the experts say about that.

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

SuzySunshine99 wrote: »

mockchoc wrote: »

From some one that has no Covid here I'm still wondering why it's a problem to wear masks, get your vaccination and stay away from others as much as you can till this is all better. Guess I don't get it but that is what I was doing when we had a close call. Do the right things and you'll be safe. I did it all too when needed and it wasn't so needed lol.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued guidance recently that fully vaccinated individuals do not need to wear masks or distance in most situations, unless local ordinances or private businesses mandate it. This is the official position of the federal government, so that is why people are starting to remove their masks, and many businesses are easing their requirements.

I personally believe this guidance was a bit premature and went a bit too far. I am fully vaccinated, but still mask and distance in any indoor public setting. I do not wear my mask outdoors or in indoor private gatherings with other people who I know to be vaccinated. It is very nice to see my vaccinated friends and family without having to sit outside, or worry about how far apart we are sitting, or try to have a conversation while yelling through masks.

And I don't see any point in the foreseeable future when this is "all better". We will be dealing with this for many years so we'll have to learn to live with it, balancing safety with life enjoyment.

Not arguing with this but just a point for discussion, everyone who is vaxed can do what they want regarding masks IMO.

When the CDC said masks were needed to prevent spread, the CDC was "right", and people should follow science. Now that the same organization is relaxing standards, again based on science, why is the CDC being questioned?

I think CDC is right, as a matter of individual guidance, considered from the perspective of the individual. I believe them.

Scientific findings about individual, personal risk are part of rational public policy considerations, but public policy is about effects on masses of people, "the populace". Psychology of human behavior enters into that consideration, among other factors that are not pure individual epidemiological science.

Personally, I think it would've been better to link overall public policy on masks and distancing to something like overall vaccination numbers, and also consider how far we are into having a vaccine available for everyone (except perhaps some truly exceptional end cases, such as people allergic to vaccine components). (I think it's fine for CDC to clarify what the individual considerations would be, scientifically, even though that will confuse some people. Full-spectrum public policy is not their job.)

I think politicians have been under a lot of pressure to get rid of mask/distancing requirements, some of it rational (such as economic implications), some of it emotional or partisan-political. By taking a flag-waving "we will follow the science" course earlier, they also painted themselves into a corner a bit, needing to respond to CDC's guidance about the science, in a context where most people won't distinguish what's best from an individual standpoint, from greatest good for greatest number within the full spectrum of economic and other considerations, within a context of legal justifiability.

In current circumstances, pandemic deniers and mask rebels, even if not vaccinated, will stop wearing masks. Vaccines are not yet available to all. We're not really very near expected herd immunity levels of vaccination generally, though the contagion numbers are fortunately dropping pretty dramatically for now.

Wearing a mask troubles me exactly zero, as a practical thing: No breathing problems, no claustrophobia or other psychological stress. I plan to keep wearing a mask (that I think I don't personally need in order to be reasonably safe) in public, indoor settings, for a while, in the hope that it will help keep mask-wearing normalized. Abstractly, I should tie that decision to vaccination numbers in the population, and availability of vaccines for children. Admittedly, at some point, if people stop wearing masks pretty generally, I'll probably give it up, too - because the normalization value evaporates, in my perception. I would still plan to wear a mask if I personally have a respiratory bug in future, maybe in some other contexts in flu season.