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Pfizer for teens?
Replies
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »
*the actual rate is more like 1.8%
Sure, if you count all of the people killed in car wrecks, construction accidents, or died of other legitimate causes that were labeled as "Covid" deaths because they may have tested positive after death. Hospitals everywhere are using the "Covid" cause of death for everything they can because covid insurance claims are paying at a higher rate and are not being scrutinized as closely for fraud.
Actual deaths caused by Covid alone are probably much lower than what @ElliesDad422 noted.
Hospitals everywhere? Our hospitals are publicly funded and non-profit so I can't imagine a scenario where a Covid death would be more beneficial to them than a death by any other cause.
Or do you mean life insurance claims? Maybe I'm not following exactly what "covid insurance claims" you are referring to.
I do not know where you are, but I do know that hospitals in the United States get a much higher reimbursement rate from health insurance on claims with a covid diagnosis, and that those claims are not being scrutinized for fraud the way other claims are. This is simple fact. There are people going in for broken legs, testing positive for Covid with no symptoms, and the hospitals are filing claims with primary diagnosis of Covid and secondary diagnosis of bone fracture, and getting paid more with less scrutiny.
Same with deaths. Say someone who is a lifelong sufferer of emphysema is on death's doorstep. They go to the hospital, are admitted, test positive for covid with no symptoms of the disease, and die a week later. The hospital codes it as a covid death in order to get higher Medicare reimbursement and less scrutiny from private insurance. It has been happening every day since this started, and this has driven up the death count tremendously.
Hospitals don't get paid for "deaths." They get paid for treatments.
This was a conspiracy theory I heard early on, based on a video of some official (Chicago?) acknowledging that hospice patients who tested positive for Covid were being counted as a Covid death. In other words, people who were already dying of something else were inflating the death count.
By this reasoning, if a crazed shooter goes into a hospice facility and opens fire on the patients, they will not be charged with homicide because the victims were already dying of something else anyway. Logic, see?
😄 good analogy6 -
Not vaccinated or any kids!
And won't.
Too many side effects.7 -
Not vaccinated or any kids!
And won't.
Too many side effects.
You will get more side effects from Covid (intubation, long hauling side effects, and possible death). But it is your life and if you want to throw away or spend weeks or months in the ICU your choice as well. But please, wear a mask and keep distance because there are other people that cannot be vaccinated due to health reasons, but would like to keep on living and be free of Covid.14 -
As always, risk vs benifit
Side effects of vaccine vs likelihood of disease outcomes for yourself and others.
No brainer.
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I see in the UK hospitalizations and death is very low with about 50 % of cases, now, being young and unvaccinated. Does anyone know if these kids are getting over it quickly or having chronic issues afterward? I can't find much data on that. I assume if hospitalization is low, then probably not having issues, right? The under 15 crowd are still looking like they're least likely to have any problems other than a cold.0
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Chronic issues are definitely possible even without hospitalisation. You might find this interesting:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01433-33 -
Thanks, I'll check that out!Chronic issues are definitely possible even without hospitalisation. You might find this interesting:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01433-3
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I was just saying, I wouldn’t take it until it was approved. I’m not using that as an excuse not to get it. I just won’t.
If a couple few rounds of e-coil, meningitis, and the many extremely unsafe things I’ve done in my lifetime hasn’t done me in this won’t.
A brown recluse spider bite, scorpion bites, and a tick bite that resulted in Anaplasmosis didn't do me in. Why? I received medical treatment.
And I got the Covid vaccine.14 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I was just saying, I wouldn’t take it until it was approved. I’m not using that as an excuse not to get it. I just won’t.
If a couple few rounds of e-coil, meningitis, and the many extremely unsafe things I’ve done in my lifetime hasn’t done me in this won’t.
A brown recluse spider bite, scorpion bites, and a tick bite that resulted in Anaplasmosis didn't do me in. Why? I received medical treatment.
And I got the Covid vaccine.
Oooh how did you do with the brown recluse bite??
You sound like me. I’m always in nature and have been bit by a fish, stung by a school of jellyfish, and got my hand impaled by a sea urchin. Lol.4 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I was just saying, I wouldn’t take it until it was approved. I’m not using that as an excuse not to get it. I just won’t.
If a couple few rounds of e-coil, meningitis, and the many extremely unsafe things I’ve done in my lifetime hasn’t done me in this won’t.
A brown recluse spider bite, scorpion bites, and a tick bite that resulted in Anaplasmosis didn't do me in. Why? I received medical treatment.
And I got the Covid vaccine.
Oooh how did you do with the brown recluse bite??
You sound like me. I’m always in nature and have been bit by a fish, stung by a school of jellyfish, and got my hand impaled by a sea urchin. Lol.
That's just the ocean's way of telling you that you don't belong there.4 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I was just saying, I wouldn’t take it until it was approved. I’m not using that as an excuse not to get it. I just won’t.
If a couple few rounds of e-coil, meningitis, and the many extremely unsafe things I’ve done in my lifetime hasn’t done me in this won’t.
A brown recluse spider bite, scorpion bites, and a tick bite that resulted in Anaplasmosis didn't do me in. Why? I received medical treatment.
And I got the Covid vaccine.
Oooh how did you do with the brown recluse bite??
You sound like me. I’m always in nature and have been bit by a fish, stung by a school of jellyfish, and got my hand impaled by a sea urchin. Lol.
Haha, after the first two I think I'd stay out of the water forever so I admire your bravery!0 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »I was just saying, I wouldn’t take it until it was approved. I’m not using that as an excuse not to get it. I just won’t.
If a couple few rounds of e-coil, meningitis, and the many extremely unsafe things I’ve done in my lifetime hasn’t done me in this won’t.
A brown recluse spider bite, scorpion bites, and a tick bite that resulted in Anaplasmosis didn't do me in. Why? I received medical treatment.
And I got the Covid vaccine.
Oooh how did you do with the brown recluse bite??
You sound like me. I’m always in nature and have been bit by a fish, stung by a school of jellyfish, and got my hand impaled by a sea urchin. Lol.
That's just the ocean's way of telling you that you don't belong there.janejellyroll wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »I was just saying, I wouldn’t take it until it was approved. I’m not using that as an excuse not to get it. I just won’t.
If a couple few rounds of e-coil, meningitis, and the many extremely unsafe things I’ve done in my lifetime hasn’t done me in this won’t.
A brown recluse spider bite, scorpion bites, and a tick bite that resulted in Anaplasmosis didn't do me in. Why? I received medical treatment.
And I got the Covid vaccine.
Oooh how did you do with the brown recluse bite??
You sound like me. I’m always in nature and have been bit by a fish, stung by a school of jellyfish, and got my hand impaled by a sea urchin. Lol.
Haha, after the first two I think I'd stay out of the water forever so I admire your bravery!
But, i am a water sign and was a marine biology major so I can’t stay away. 😊🐠🐬5 -
i work in a pharmacy. i have performed hundreds of tests and given hundreds of vaccines including 12 year old an up. today we started giving the third shot to immunosuppressed/compromised patients. i have personally witnessed one person out of hundreds getting ill from getting the vaccine (johns&johnson). she got sick to her stomach and threw up. i have treated more than a hundred people who were positive and my estimate would be that 90% of them were very sick. the other 10% were sick to asymptmatic. when the vaccine is available to for 9 year olds my son will be getting it.13
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I'm in canada, double vaxxed as is everyone in my social circle, co workers, neighbors etc. My kids will be getting it as soon as they lower the age. I can't handle schools closing any more.8
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paperpudding wrote: »As always, risk vs benifit
Side effects of vaccine vs likelihood of disease outcomes for yourself and others.
No brainer.
This exactly. I'm in Australia as well and we're in the middle of big protests over mandatory vaccines. I think it should be up to the individual to decide if they want to be vaccinated or not. I decided to get the vaccination but it's not my place to force someone else to (I can just look after myself). However, if you choose not to get vaccinated then you need to face the consequences.
We have had very few cases compared to the rest of the world so I wonder if opinions will change when people begin to witness deaths and serious illness firsthand.2 -
paperpudding wrote: »As always, risk vs benifit
Side effects of vaccine vs likelihood of disease outcomes for yourself and others.
No brainer.
This exactly. I'm in Australia as well and we're in the middle of big protests over mandatory vaccines. I think it should be up to the individual to decide if they want to be vaccinated or not. I decided to get the vaccination but it's not my place to force someone else to (I can just look after myself). However, if you choose not to get vaccinated then you need to face the consequences.
We have had very few cases compared to the rest of the world so I wonder if opinions will change when people begin to witness deaths and serious illness firsthand.
NSW and Victoria are experiencing illness and deaths first hand
Here in Australia we are not forcing anyone to have the vaccine
We are however protecting other people from the consequences of your non-vaccinating choice - therefore you cannot work in certain jobs where not being vaccinated puts others at risk.
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I am late to this conversation but it's good to see a balanced and open discussion on this topic. I see it from both sides, I get people being fearful of Covid and wanting desperately to get their lives back - absolutely, but I also see others who are genuinely scared of the vaccine being berated by those who are vaccinated. If you have witnessed negative affects first hand and you decide you dont want to have it yet, I get that, because if we force people to be vaccinated there is no recompense for those suffering ill affects, in many cases they are not even being acknowledged. In the UK the narrative is changing and there is more investigation into the side affects, and the efficacy of the vaccine. They are rolling out 3rd doses as they think it wears off, they are also suggesting it doesn't reduce transmission or chances of catching covid, but minimizes the symptoms only and those who catch it have a similar viral load to those who don't. I think its a really complicated situation, and I just think we need to be kind and support each other best we can because nobody really knows the answers.
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paperpudding wrote: »As always, risk vs benifit
Side effects of vaccine vs likelihood of disease outcomes for yourself and others.
No brainer.
This exactly. I'm in Australia as well and we're in the middle of big protests over mandatory vaccines. I think it should be up to the individual to decide if they want to be vaccinated or not. I decided to get the vaccination but it's not my place to force someone else to I can just look after myself. However, if you choose not to get vaccinated then you need to face the consequences.
We have had very few cases compared to the rest of the world so I wonder if opinions will change when people begin to witness deaths and serious illness firsthand.
Can you clarify something here? Vaccine mandates are being interpreted as forcing people to get vaccinated or lose access to jobs/indoor venues/transportation etc., hence the protests. If I'm reading you right, you are anti-mandate, but pro-consequences? Do you mean just that the consequences of being unvaccinated leaves one many times more likely to become seriously ill and die, or does that include the social consequences as well?
As far as the bolded, the answer is a clear no, judging by what's going on in the US in many hard-hit areas.2 -
madaboutblu wrote: »I am late to this conversation but it's good to see a balanced and open discussion on this topic. I see it from both sides, I get people being fearful of Covid and wanting desperately to get their lives back - absolutely, but I also see others who are genuinely scared of the vaccine being berated by those who are vaccinated. If you have witnessed negative affects first hand and you decide you dont want to have it yet, I get that, because if we force people to be vaccinated there is no recompense for those suffering ill affects, in many cases they are not even being acknowledged. In the UK the narrative is changing and there is more investigation into the side affects, and the efficacy of the vaccine. They are rolling out 3rd doses as they think it wears off, they are also suggesting it doesn't reduce ... chances of catching covid, but minimizes the symptoms only and those who catch it have a similar viral load to those who don't. I think its a really complicated situation, and I just think we need to be kind and support each other best we can because nobody really knows the answers.
The bolded is incorrect. When a vaccine is 60% effective (just as a low example) it means you are less likely to get the virus. The higher the effectivity rate, the less likely you are to become infected in the first place.5 -
paperpudding wrote: »As always, risk vs benifit
Side effects of vaccine vs likelihood of disease outcomes for yourself and others.
No brainer.
This exactly. I'm in Australia as well and we're in the middle of big protests over mandatory vaccines. I think it should be up to the individual to decide if they want to be vaccinated or not. I decided to get the vaccination but it's not my place to force someone else to I can just look after myself. However, if you choose not to get vaccinated then you need to face the consequences.
We have had very few cases compared to the rest of the world so I wonder if opinions will change when people begin to witness deaths and serious illness firsthand.
Can you clarify something here? Vaccine mandates are being interpreted as forcing people to get vaccinated or lose access to jobs/indoor venues/transportation etc., hence the protests. If I'm reading you right, you are anti-mandate, but pro-consequences? Do you mean just that the consequences of being unvaccinated leaves one many times more likely to become seriously ill and die, or does that include the social consequences as well?
As far as the bolded, the answer is a clear no, judging by what's going on in the US in many hard-hit areas.
Hi mph, yes the government has made it clear over the last few weeks that unvaccinated people will not be allowed into many venues, can not gather with as many friends, etc.
The consequences I was talking about though were illness and death. We have low rates of Covid here (we go into lockdown over single digit cases) but after 230+ days in lockdown people are sick of it and rates are climbing. As more and more people witness firsthand the impact I would assume they will opt to get vaccinated but as you pointed out - maybe not, time will tell.
The protests started when the government announced last Friday that vaccines will be mandatory in the construction industry and only gave people a week's notice or they wouldn't be allowed to work. When the workers took to the streets to protest, the state government shut down the whole industry for two weeks. So... they're still protesting. Next they're focusing on mandates for teachers and childcare workers.
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