Coronavirus prep

T1DCarnivoreRunner · July 2021

In places like the U.S. where vaccines are now easy to obtain, it definitely makes sense to require airline passengers provide proof of vaccination. Other countries, though? Aside from helping them get vaccines, and restricting travel until then, what else can you do?!

lemurcat2 · July 2021

PAV8888 wrote: »

So please explain to me in little words that I can understand why people have to keep looking at a government website to see whether a flight they were on had covid exposure and which rows were affected.

Seems like this is a question for the airline in question or the relevant gov't. I don't think anyone here is saying this is how it should be handled.

33gail33 · July 2021

PAV8888 wrote: »

I'm not going to claim that tests are perfect. Far from it. There's both false positives and false negatives.

In time tests can be improved.

False positives can be handled with second and third tests.

False negatives are no different than doing no test at all. So at that point we are arguing that we shouldn't try anything because sometimes we will fail no matter what

I realize that I'm harping a little bit on a sector that has been both affected and that generally has made some effort to mitigate. And where tests are required when flying in from international locations.

So please explain to me in little words that I can understand why people have to keep looking at a government website to see whether a flight they were on had covid exposure and which rows were affected.

This is an industry where all the data and contact information for every one of these seats is both fully available and verified. And attendants even note seat swaps.

Text and emails that you can check in, or that the gate has changed, or that the flight will be 10 minutes late.

And yet in January when I was in the middle of a covid exposed 5 row area... there was no text, no email, and no phone call. Just me looking at a website 10 days later and seeing that I hàd been exposed

So you think that a rapid test for every passenger isn't too onerous, but taking responsibility for your own health by checking a website for exposure information is? Given the ubiquitousness of Covid in January I would assume an exposure on any flight (thus why we were advised not to travel) and take necessary precautions. Maybe get tested when I was done.

In January the public health advice was to avoid all but essential travel - not sure whether or not your travel was essential - but for those for whom it wasn't the idea that health departments should extend their resources to personally contact those who can't be bothered to follow public health advice, or even check a website for exposure information, strikes me as a bit entitled.

So basically you travelled by air in January, against public health advice, during the height of the third wave, got exposed, potentially spread Covid around. But you don't feel like it is "too onerous" for those of us who followed public health advice from day one, didn't travel, got the vaccine, to continue being excluded from living a normal life, in order to protect all the other people who didn't follow public health advice, by refusing the vaccine.

And people wonder why I am fed up with this.

PAV8888 · July 2021

33gail33 wrote: »

So you think that a rapid test for every passenger isn't too onerous, but taking responsibility for your own health by checking a website for exposure information is? Given the ubiquitousness of Covid in January I would assume an exposure on any flight (thus why we were advised not to travel) and take necessary precautions. Maybe get tested when I was done.

In January the public health advice was to avoid all but essential travel - not sure whether or not your travel was essential - but for those for whom it wasn't the idea that health departments should extend their resources to personally contact those who can't be bothered to follow public health advice, or even check a website for exposure information, strikes me as a bit entitled.

So basically you travelled by air in January, against public health advice, during the height of the third wave, got exposed, potentially spread Covid around. But you don't feel like it is "too onerous" for those of us who followed public health advice from day one, didn't travel, got the vaccine, to continue being excluded from living a normal life, in order to protect all the other people who didn't follow public health advice, by refusing the vaccine.

And people wonder why I am fed up with this.

Assumptions many? Did I say I didn't quarantine EVEN THOUGH I WASN'T REQUIRED TO. Did I say I didn't check the web page? How did I magically discover the information I've relayed to you?

For your information, advice by the government was to avoid non-essential travel and to avoid international travel. Interprovincial travel was regulated by the provinces. I can't find the restriction right now, but by my count at the time I was eligible for more than 50% of the BC exemptions, with BC being substantially more restrictive than Alberta.

Though I find it intellectually dishonest that you're basing your argument on the lesser as opposed to greater of government restriction and common sense. And that you continue to use the strawman of people refusing the vaccine.

I have had two vaccines and I still don't want your cooties. Because in spite of your belief that "not sick enough to die or end up in hospital" is good enough, I have zero desire to discover otherwise, or to impose on other people the "joy" of discovering for themselves how sick they can get without "ending up in hospital or dying" when it can be "easily" avoided.

As to travel within the country both in January and now, direction by the government should have been to send a **kitten** text notification to passengers who are in affected rows. Doesn't strike me as particularly onerous when I get a multiple text messages for gate changes or even 10 minute flight delays.

Beyond that, do you think that there is a special medal you deserve for being careful, one that obviates the need for you to not generate problems that can be easily avoided? I don't hear me arguing against simple testing before people spend a lot of time together in close quarters. You're the one arguing that. I don't hear me arguing against the simple notification of individuals whose full particulars are already known and stored in an easily accessible database. You're the one arguing that because? How exactly are these things particularly onerous or expensive?

You're basically arguing that because you've had the vaccine and done your bit (how is getting a vaccine that protects you "doing your bit"? All you've done is protect yourself--no bit doing!) it's none of your concern that you're shedding virus.

Hey I stopped at the four way stop sign. It's my turn to go. So I've done everything right and I will just drive through! No need to check whether there's anything in front of me, because I've done my bit by law, right?

Who is the one acting entitled?

At the end of the day our viewpoint differs in that you believe that pre-COVID is 'normal' and nothing changes post COVID because you're fed up.

Pre 9-11 was normal and nothing should or would change post 9-11....

Pre climate-change was normal and nothing should or will change post climate-change...

I don't quite agree that nothing should change post COVID.

PAV8888 · July 2021

lemurcat2 wrote: »

PAV8888 wrote: »

So please explain to me in little words that I can understand why people have to keep looking at a government website to see whether a flight they were on had covid exposure and which rows were affected.

Seems like this is a question for the airline in question or the relevant gov't. I don't think anyone here is saying this is how it should be handled.

33gail33 wrote: »

So you think that a rapid test for every passenger isn't too onerous, but taking responsibility for your own health by checking a website for exposure information is?

33gail33 · July 2021

PAV8888 wrote: »

33gail33 wrote: »

So you think that a rapid test for every passenger isn't too onerous, but taking responsibility for your own health by checking a website for exposure information is? Given the ubiquitousness of Covid in January I would assume an exposure on any flight (thus why we were advised not to travel) and take necessary precautions. Maybe get tested when I was done.

In January the public health advice was to avoid all but essential travel - not sure whether or not your travel was essential - but for those for whom it wasn't the idea that health departments should extend their resources to personally contact those who can't be bothered to follow public health advice, or even check a website for exposure information, strikes me as a bit entitled.

So basically you travelled by air in January, against public health advice, during the height of the third wave, got exposed, potentially spread Covid around. But you don't feel like it is "too onerous" for those of us who followed public health advice from day one, didn't travel, got the vaccine, to continue being excluded from living a normal life, in order to protect all the other people who didn't follow public health advice, by refusing the vaccine.

And people wonder why I am fed up with this.

Assumptions many? Did I say I didn't quarantine EVEN THOUGH I WASN'T REQUIRED TO. Did I say I didn't check the web page? How did I magically discover the information I've relayed to you?

For your information, advice by the government was to avoid non-essential travel and to avoid international travel. Interprovincial travel was regulated by the provinces. I can't find the restriction right now, but by my count at the time I was eligible for more than 50% of the BC exemptions, with BC being substantially more restrictive than Alberta.

Though I find it intellectually dishonest that you're basing your argument on the lesser as opposed to greater of government restriction and common sense. And that you continue to use the strawman of people refusing the vaccine.

I have had two vaccines and I still don't want your cooties. Because in spite of your belief that "not sick enough to die or end up in hospital" is good enough, I have zero desire to discover otherwise, or to impose on other people the "joy" of discovering for themselves how sick they can get without "ending up in hospital or dying" when it can be "easily" avoided.

As to travel within the country both in January and now, direction by the government should have been to send a **kitten** text notification to passengers who are in affected rows. Doesn't strike me as particularly onerous when I get a multiple text messages for gate changes or even 10 minute flight delays.

You're basically arguing that because you've had the vaccine and done your bit (how is getting a vaccine that protects you "doing your bit"? All you've done is protect yourself--no bit doing!) it's none of your concern that you're shedding virus.

Hey I stopped at the four way stop sign. It's my turn to go. So I've done everything right and I will just drive through! No need to check whether there's anything in front of me, because I've done my bit by law, right?

Who is the one acting entitled?

At the end of the day our viewpoint differs in that you believe that pre-COVID is 'normal' and nothing changes post COVID because you're fed up.

Pre 9-11 was normal and nothing should or would change post 9-11....

Pre climate-change was normal and nothing should or will change post climate-change...

I don't quite agree that nothing should change post COVID.

Assumptions many? Did I say I didn't quarantine EVEN THOUGH I WASN'T REQUIRED TO. Did I say I didn't check the web page? How did I magically discover the information I've relayed to you?

I am aware that you checked the website, you complained that you had to do it and would have preferred that someone text you with the information. I simply pointed out that checking a website to see if you were exposed on a flight during the height of the pandemic doesn't seem like a huge amount of trouble to me.

For your information, advice by the government was to avoid non-essential travel and to avoid international travel. Interprovincial travel was regulated by the provinces. I can't find the restriction right now, but by my count at the time I was eligible for more than 50% of the BC exemptions, with BC being substantially more restrictive than Alberta.

I'm don't really understand this. January was the height of the pandemic, we were locked down here, and people were being advised to stay local. Not sure what "50% of the BC exemptions" even means.

Though I find it intellectually dishonest that you're basing your argument on the lesser as opposed to greater of government restriction and common sense. And that you continue to use the strawman of people refusing the vaccine.

I was drawing a parallel between those who insisted on travelling during the height of the pandemic, and those who refuse the vaccine, as they are both disregarding public health advice, and both contributed to the spread of the virus. Neither of those things was/is mandated, but they were both strongly encouraged.

Beyond that, do you think that there is a special medal you deserve for being careful, one that obviates the need for you to not generate problems that can be easily avoided? I don't hear me arguing against simple testing before people spend a lot of time together in close quarters. You're the one arguing that.

I don't want a medal, I am quite happy with just the vaccine. But having followed public health advice, isolated when neccessary and got the vaccine, with the express intention of not only protecting my health but also moving beyond pandemic life restrictions, I believe that we are ready to do that now. And yes I am arguing against increased testing and restrictions NOW - because highly effective vaccines are readily available to anyone who wants them (here in this country). I was quite happy to do my part regarding testing and isolating when it was required. Now that we have effective vaccines it is time to shift away from strictly case counts, to more meaningful metrics.

I don't hear me arguing against the simple notification of individuals whose full particulars are already known and stored in an easily accessible database. You're the one arguing that because? How exactly are these things particularly onerous or expensive?

I guess because at the height of the pandemic the health department was overwhelmed with, you know, dealing with the pandemic, and having to take the time to notify people who decided to disregard health advice and travel anyway would add to their contact tracing efforts. You realize these people have been working seven days a week for months right? You think they just have staff sitting around waiting to take on more tasks? I mean I didn't even say it was onerous or expensive, you are the one who complained that you had to *gasp* check the website yourself. But now that you mention it contact tracing is time and labour intensive.

You're basically arguing that because you've had the vaccine and done your bit (how is getting a vaccine that protects you "doing your bit"? All you've done is protect yourself--no bit doing!) it's none of your concern that you're shedding virus.

The vaccine protects me, and those around me. If I was exposed it would substantially reduce the viral load, thereby almost eliminating my risk of severe illness, while ALSO greatly reducing my capacity to spread the virus to others.

I have had two vaccines and I still don't want your cooties. Because in spite of your belief that "not sick enough to die or end up in hospital" is good enough, I have zero desire to discover otherwise, or to impose on other people the "joy" of discovering for themselves how sick they can get without "ending up in hospital or dying" when it can be "easily" avoided.

I get that for some people it is going to be difficult to move beyond the "pandemic mentality" that we have been living in the last year. Obviously you are one of those people for whom reintegration back into normal life will be challenging, but at this point I would say it is up to you to isolate yourself if that is how you feel. If we trusted the science all along that drove the decision making on masking, restrictions, lockdowns and vaccines - then why should we not trust the science when it is telling us that vaccines are highly effective? Again - the goal of the vaccines was never to provide sterilizing immunity - it was to prevent severe illness, hospitalization and death. And it is very effective at doing that.

lemurcat2 · July 2021

PAV8888 wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

PAV8888 wrote: »

So please explain to me in little words that I can understand why people have to keep looking at a government website to see whether a flight they were on had covid exposure and which rows were affected.

Seems like this is a question for the airline in question or the relevant gov't. I don't think anyone here is saying this is how it should be handled.

33gail33 wrote: »

So you think that a rapid test for every passenger isn't too onerous, but taking responsibility for your own health by checking a website for exposure information is?

Um, check the timing of the comments, as well as your comment I replied to. Am I supposed to have anticipated what 33gail33 might say after I posted? Once again, re the comment of yours I responded to I can't figure out who you thought you were arguing with, but it sure seemed like it was directed toward my post even though I said nothing about Canada or airplane policy.

Specifically, this comment by you: "So please explain to me in little words that I can understand why people have to keep looking at a government website to see whether a flight they were on had covid exposure and which rows were affected" seemed to be responsive to a comment by me given a prior response in the same post to something about testing in my post that had absolutely nothing to do with Canada or airplanes. Nor do I think anyone else was talking about airplane flights.

I haven't flown since covid started, and I suspect no US flight could be relied on to even know if someone had covid on the plane (I'd mask on a plane and hope those around me did, as I think is normally required as it is on public transit where I live but dunno about airplane policy since I haven't and so haven't kept up on the rules). If the plane gave notice on the website or through a text (both great!) of a known case, I'd appreciate it, but I doubt either would be available here so I can't get angry with Canada in this situation. I will probably fly later this summer, although I've heard O'Hare is really crazy at the moment so would rather not deal with flying out of it.

PAV8888 · July 2021

lemurcat2 wrote: »

PAV8888 wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

PAV8888 wrote: »

So please explain to me in little words that I can understand why people have to keep looking at a government website to see whether a flight they were on had covid exposure and which rows were affected.

Seems like this is a question for the airline in question or the relevant gov't. I don't think anyone here is saying this is how it should be handled.

33gail33 wrote: »

So you think that a rapid test for every passenger isn't too onerous, but taking responsibility for your own health by checking a website for exposure information is?

Um, check the timing of the comments, as well as your comment I replied to. Am I supposed to have anticipated what 33gail33 might say after I posted? Once again, re the comment of yours I responded to I can't figure out who you thought you were arguing with, but it sure seemed like it was directed toward my post even though I said nothing about Canada or airplane policy.

Specifically, this comment by you: "So please explain to me in little words that I can understand why people have to keep looking at a government website to see whether a flight they were on had covid exposure and which rows were affected" seemed to be responsive to a comment by me given a prior response in the same post to something about testing in my post that had absolutely nothing to do with Canada or airplanes. Nor do I think anyone else was talking about airplane flights.

I haven't flown since covid started, and I suspect no US flight could be relied on to even know if someone had covid on the plane (I'd mask on a plane and hope those around me did, as I think is normally required as it is on public transit where I live but dunno about airplane policy since I haven't and so haven't kept up on the rules). If the plane gave notice on the website or through a text (both great!) of a known case, I'd appreciate it, but I doubt either would be available here so I can't get angry with Canada in this situation. I will probably fly later this summer, although I've heard O'Hare is really crazy at the moment so would rather not deal with flying out of it.

My response to your saying nobody's arguing this was to point out to you that Gail was.

It's just that her more overt and quotable argument came in after your post, but the arrival of her comment was expected given her position that her circus and her monkeys do not expand post her vaccination

Sorry but none of my responses were mainly to things you've said, so no I have not directed much of what I've said to you specifically other than to disagree with your point that nobody's arguing that.

My discussion is mainly centered to Gail's assertion that we don't need much more than vaccination.

I hope I'm proven wrong and that she's proven right because while other countries seem to be willing to test Canada certainly doesn't seem to be putting any effort in that direction

mask mandates remain during air travel and at airports anywhere I've been. Not so at other enclosed areas.
Being a risk seeking inconsiderate person I continued to wear a kn95 mask unless I'm actively eating or drinking.

As to the difficulty of contact tracing under certain specific circumstances {and that difficulty being the reason why people were not contacted by overwhelmed health workers during the height of the pandemic (and at all other times)} I call BS. Not that the health workers were not overwhelmed, or that full contact tracing would have been prohibitive, but because it's utterly unnecessary By the time you've entered the information on the affected flights web page there's no extra contact tracing involved in order to send out text messages to potentially affected individuals. It is a part-time job for one person per airline who get to notify their potentially affected customers after the government politely tell them to do so instead of keeping quiet in the hope that no one notices

GaleHawkins · July 2021

Covid fatigue is real . I feel for those without access to Vaccine or have medical conditions preventing get vaccinated.

There's some that I avoid like the plague. I have not been in places like churches, movie etc since March 2020. Saw a church friend recently outside his shop working on a car so I stopped to say hello. He told
me that people doing god's will can not get Covid-19. I wished him well and made tracks. Normally he is rational. Locally some still believe Covid-19 is just fake news. Some just need to avoided at all cost.I hope they stay as in well away from me. Some people may have brain damage for life.

At age 70 I am clueless as to the statements and actions from some people. I wonder what the NEW normal is going to be like?

lemurcat2 · July 2021

PAV8888 wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

PAV8888 wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

PAV8888 wrote: »

So please explain to me in little words that I can understand why people have to keep looking at a government website to see whether a flight they were on had covid exposure and which rows were affected.

Seems like this is a question for the airline in question or the relevant gov't. I don't think anyone here is saying this is how it should be handled.

33gail33 wrote: »

So you think that a rapid test for every passenger isn't too onerous, but taking responsibility for your own health by checking a website for exposure information is?

Um, check the timing of the comments, as well as your comment I replied to. Am I supposed to have anticipated what 33gail33 might say after I posted? Once again, re the comment of yours I responded to I can't figure out who you thought you were arguing with, but it sure seemed like it was directed toward my post even though I said nothing about Canada or airplane policy.

Specifically, this comment by you: "So please explain to me in little words that I can understand why people have to keep looking at a government website to see whether a flight they were on had covid exposure and which rows were affected" seemed to be responsive to a comment by me given a prior response in the same post to something about testing in my post that had absolutely nothing to do with Canada or airplanes. Nor do I think anyone else was talking about airplane flights.

I haven't flown since covid started, and I suspect no US flight could be relied on to even know if someone had covid on the plane (I'd mask on a plane and hope those around me did, as I think is normally required as it is on public transit where I live but dunno about airplane policy since I haven't and so haven't kept up on the rules). If the plane gave notice on the website or through a text (both great!) of a known case, I'd appreciate it, but I doubt either would be available here so I can't get angry with Canada in this situation. I will probably fly later this summer, although I've heard O'Hare is really crazy at the moment so would rather not deal with flying out of it.

My response to your saying nobody's arguing this was to point out to you that Gail was.

But she hadn't before my comment, so how's that relevant?

Sorry but none of my responses were mainly to things you've said, so no I have not directed much of what I've said to you specifically other than to disagree with your point that nobody's arguing that.

Your post immediately after mine questioning the accuracy of rapid testing (re the Lolla rules to allow people with vaccines or within 72 hr negative tests) certainly seemed responsive, or at least going off about something about texts no one had discussed.

My discussion is mainly centered to Gail's assertion that we don't need much more than vaccination.

If enough people would get vaxxed we wouldn't. In my country (the US) we aren't, so various places are testing and others are still requiring masking for non vaxxed or all (public transit). But it's not actually easy to enforce so I am pushing for more vax. And anyone not vaxxed and not a child has chosen not to be vaxxed here.

As to the difficulty of contact tracing under certain specific circumstances {and that difficulty being the reason why people were not contacted by overwhelmed health workers during the height of the pandemic (and at all other times)} I call BS. Not that the health workers were not overwhelmed, or that full contact tracing would have been prohibitive, but because it's utterly unnecessary By the time you've entered the information on the affected flights web page there's no extra contact tracing involved in order to send out text messages to potentially affected individuals. It is a part-time job for one person per airline who get to notify their potentially affected customers after the government politely tell them to do so instead of keeping quiet in the hope that no one notices

I didn't say anything about the reason you were not contacted -- I said contact your gov't or the airline if you have an issue -- I explained why I would not expect to be contacted or to even have a website be especially helpful. Had I flown in Jan (and yes case levels where I am, not to mention death levels, have almost certainly been way higher than where you are), I would have tested before and after, regardless of airline policy. I have no confidence someone with a positive test would have informed the airline or that the airline would have phone numbers that were active for everyone on the plane. I have chosen not to fly since covid began (which has been frustrating) and figured flying would introduce uncertainties (not that other things do not). So yes, that flying means one might get exposed doesn't seem shocking, and I would ask what the airline does to protect people.

I am not anti adding a rapid test given current rates if businesses want to and if someone can show me there's a rapid enough and accurate test for someone wanting to grocery shop or go to a restaurant if someone wants to. But I do think getting more people vaxxed is the better solution. My dad flew from Mexico to the US and had to have a negative test first. I don't think he got any contact tracing after that. I don't think anyone in the US has gotten contact tracing really, maybe Canada is different?

Fuzzipeg · July 2021

Yes, covid fatigue is real, as are symptoms which echo long standing, previously recognised illnesses. Now, CFS and ME are starting to be seen as autoimmune issues, both in different parts of the "immune" system, possibly reflecting endocrine damage. So as the effects of this virus have been found to get into the many parts of our body's systems, catching covid is nothing to great with enthusiasm as some seem to. (from observations in the UK, deep south, just to leave no confusion about the culture I refer too.)

33gail33 · July 2021

@lemurcat2 Come on now - surely you can read my mind!!

33gail33 · July 2021

PAV8888 wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

PAV8888 wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

PAV8888 wrote: »

So please explain to me in little words that I can understand why people have to keep looking at a government website to see whether a flight they were on had covid exposure and which rows were affected.

Seems like this is a question for the airline in question or the relevant gov't. I don't think anyone here is saying this is how it should be handled.

33gail33 wrote: »

So you think that a rapid test for every passenger isn't too onerous, but taking responsibility for your own health by checking a website for exposure information is?

Um, check the timing of the comments, as well as your comment I replied to. Am I supposed to have anticipated what 33gail33 might say after I posted? Once again, re the comment of yours I responded to I can't figure out who you thought you were arguing with, but it sure seemed like it was directed toward my post even though I said nothing about Canada or airplane policy.

Specifically, this comment by you: "So please explain to me in little words that I can understand why people have to keep looking at a government website to see whether a flight they were on had covid exposure and which rows were affected" seemed to be responsive to a comment by me given a prior response in the same post to something about testing in my post that had absolutely nothing to do with Canada or airplanes. Nor do I think anyone else was talking about airplane flights.

I haven't flown since covid started, and I suspect no US flight could be relied on to even know if someone had covid on the plane (I'd mask on a plane and hope those around me did, as I think is normally required as it is on public transit where I live but dunno about airplane policy since I haven't and so haven't kept up on the rules). If the plane gave notice on the website or through a text (both great!) of a known case, I'd appreciate it, but I doubt either would be available here so I can't get angry with Canada in this situation. I will probably fly later this summer, although I've heard O'Hare is really crazy at the moment so would rather not deal with flying out of it.

My response to your saying nobody's arguing this was to point out to you that Gail was.

It's just that her more overt and quotable argument came in after your post, but the arrival of her comment was expected given her position that her circus and her monkeys do not expand post her vaccination

Sorry but none of my responses were mainly to things you've said, so no I have not directed much of what I've said to you specifically other than to disagree with your point that nobody's arguing that.

My discussion is mainly centered to Gail's assertion that we don't need much more than vaccination.

I hope I'm proven wrong and that she's proven right because while other countries seem to be willing to test Canada certainly doesn't seem to be putting any effort in that direction

mask mandates remain during air travel and at airports anywhere I've been. Not so at other enclosed areas.
Being a risk seeking inconsiderate person I continued to wear a kn95 mask unless I'm actively eating or drinking.

As to the difficulty of contact tracing under certain specific circumstances {and that difficulty being the reason why people were not contacted by overwhelmed health workers during the height of the pandemic (and at all other times)} I call BS. Not that the health workers were not overwhelmed, or that full contact tracing would have been prohibitive, but because it's utterly unnecessary By the time you've entered the information on the affected flights web page there's no extra contact tracing involved in order to send out text messages to potentially affected individuals. It is a part-time job for one person per airline who get to notify their potentially affected customers after the government politely tell them to do so instead of keeping quiet in the hope that no one notices

I'm not sure you realize how many flights are in the air at any given time. At this moment in time (I just checked) there are close to 14,000 worldwide. It is definitely not a part-time job for one airline employee to contact trace exposures, especially back in January when I would guess that *most* flights would have a positive case.
I'm also not sure of the ethics of giving a part time airline worker access to passenger health information - I would think that would be the mandate of the health department not the airline (but I am open to correction on that because it is an assumption on my part that I have neither the time nor inclination to confirm rn).

lemurcat2 · July 2021

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

PAV8888 wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

PAV8888 wrote: »

So please explain to me in little words that I can understand why people have to keep looking at a government website to see whether a flight they were on had covid exposure and which rows were affected.

Seems like this is a question for the airline in question or the relevant gov't. I don't think anyone here is saying this is how it should be handled.

33gail33 wrote: »

So you think that a rapid test for every passenger isn't too onerous, but taking responsibility for your own health by checking a website for exposure information is?

Um, check the timing of the comments, as well as your comment I replied to. Am I supposed to have anticipated what 33gail33 might say after I posted? Once again, re the comment of yours I responded to I can't figure out who you thought you were arguing with, but it sure seemed like it was directed toward my post even though I said nothing about Canada or airplane policy.

Specifically, this comment by you: "So please explain to me in little words that I can understand why people have to keep looking at a government website to see whether a flight they were on had covid exposure and which rows were affected" seemed to be responsive to a comment by me given a prior response in the same post to something about testing in my post that had absolutely nothing to do with Canada or airplanes. Nor do I think anyone else was talking about airplane flights.

I haven't flown since covid started, and I suspect no US flight could be relied on to even know if someone had covid on the plane (I'd mask on a plane and hope those around me did, as I think is normally required as it is on public transit where I live but dunno about airplane policy since I haven't and so haven't kept up on the rules). If the plane gave notice on the website or through a text (both great!) of a known case, I'd appreciate it, but I doubt either would be available here so I can't get angry with Canada in this situation. I will probably fly later this summer, although I've heard O'Hare is really crazy at the moment so would rather not deal with flying out of it.

We flew about a month ago. Masks are required at all times in airports and on planes in the US.

That's good. I knew they were a while back, but wasn't sure if they still were.

Gisel2015 · July 2021

Easy and direct article with information from Dr. Wen. I encourage everyone to click the link and to froward as well.

How worried should vaccinated people be about Covid-19 breakthrough infections?

"...The most important thing the Covid-19 vaccines do is to protect against hospitalization and death. They have proven to be remarkably effective at this, even with the Delta variant. Breakthrough infections are to be expected, and the more infections occur among the unvaccinated, the more infections there will be among the vaccinated.
The key to stopping the pandemic is for us to reach a high enough level of immunity that the virus has nowhere else to go. We can get there — but all of us have to do our part and get vaccinated. Vaccination protects the individual, and it protects others around us, too."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/22/health/breakthrough-covid-infections-wellness/index.html

33gail33 · July 2021

From the CDC:
Fully vaccinated people with no COVID-19-like symptoms and no known exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19
It is recommended that fully vaccinated people with no COVID-19-like symptoms and no known exposure should be exempted from routine screening testing programs, if feasible.

From a vaccine expert:
Some argue asymptomatic breakthrough cases shouldn't even count
"I think we are misusing the term breakthrough," said Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. "If someone who is fully vaccinated is subsequently hospitalized or killed by the virus, that's a breakthrough case." He said he wouldn't call an "asymptomatic or relatively mild case" a "breakthrough case."
What matters, he said, is "the vaccine is still doing what it is designed to do — keep people out of the hospital and out of the morgue."

FWIW I'm not just pulling my opinions out of thin air, I am taking expert opinions into account.

LazyBlondeChef · July 2021

My primary concern is whether vaccinated people (of which I am one) who subsequently get Covid will be at risk for long Covid. That seems to be unlikely from what I've read so far but we obviously need more data. I'm sure that'll be forthcoming in future months.

lokihen · July 2021

LazyBlondeChef wrote: »

My primary concern is whether vaccinated people (of which I am one) who subsequently get Covid will be at risk for long Covid. That seems to be unlikely from what I've read so far but we obviously need more data. I'm sure that'll be forthcoming in future months.

I will be very interested when more data is available. I have heard that around 5% of middle-aged people end up with long covid regardless of symptoms from the initial infection. I don't recall vaccination status being mentioned.

kimny72 · July 2021

LazyBlondeChef wrote: »

My primary concern is whether vaccinated people (of which I am one) who subsequently get Covid will be at risk for long Covid. That seems to be unlikely from what I've read so far but we obviously need more data. I'm sure that'll be forthcoming in future months.

Yep, my concern isn't that I might get sick for a couple of days. Its the long term effects of infection.

And I cannot stress this enough, I am concerned about young people who either are not allowed to get vaxxed yet or whose parents choose not to take them. While the risk might be low, there has been an alarming increase in children/young adults being hospitalized in spiking areas. And again, we don't know what the long term affect on their health would be.

I'll happily wear a mask in public this fall/winter if it saves a thousand children from being hospitalized. Heck I'd happily wear a mask this fall/winter to protect the thousands of kids who'd die of the flu. I hope that's not a hot take.

ahoy_m8 · July 2021

Where I live, the infection rate is a level unseen since March 2020. It peaked in March 2020, and presently is not quite that high, but higher than all the months since then. It kind of amazes me that with 50% of adults vaccinated now, we are nonetheless matching the rate of spread then. Our positive test rate is presently 8%, which seems not encouraging but maybe reflects less precautionary testing among the vaccinated? (My college age kids had a practice of testing before and after socializing with a different living group or traveling together to a roommate's home, so they tested a lot pre-vaccine and never now.) Daily new case counts are going up with the delta variant, of course, but remain at 1/10th what they were at the peak.

It feels like the delta variant is putting DH and I back where we were several months ago with ongoing conversations about what precautions make sense for a changing environment. He went to his first indoor work event with 100 other people last night. And DD#3 wants to bring several friends to our tiny little lake cabana (with one tiny bathroom) at the end of the month. These are things we're really looking forward to, but the breakout infections among the vaccinated are casting a new light on things.

I'm with @kimny72 that the last thing I want to do is become a spreader and infect someone too young to get the vaccine. Or to give the virus another opportunity to mutate.

lemurcat2 · July 2021

Is positivity rate combined with lots of testing or people only testing with symptoms?

Positivity rate here is up, but still 1.8% (our high was around 25%). I am much more worried about the inadequate vax rate (which is extremely frustrating for people eligible, who could all get it easily) than the mask situation.

33gail33 · July 2021

ahoy_m8 wrote: »

Where I live, the infection rate is a level unseen since March 2020. It peaked in March 2020, and presently is not quite that high, but higher than all the months since then. It kind of amazes me that with 50% of adults vaccinated now, we are nonetheless matching the rate of spread then. Our positive test rate is presently 8%, which seems not encouraging but maybe reflects less precautionary testing among the vaccinated? (My college age kids had a practice of testing before and after socializing with a different living group or traveling together to a roommate's home, so they tested a lot pre-vaccine and never now.) Daily new case counts are going up with the delta variant, of course, but remain at 1/10th what they were at the peak.

It feels like the delta variant is putting DH and I back where we were several months ago with ongoing conversations about what precautions make sense for a changing environment. He went to his first indoor work event with 100 other people last night. And DD#3 wants to bring several friends to our tiny little lake cabana (with one tiny bathroom) at the end of the month. These are things we're really looking forward to, but the breakout infections among the vaccinated are casting a new light on things.

I'm with @kimny72 that the last thing I want to do is become a spreader and infect someone too young to get the vaccine. Or to give the virus another opportunity to mutate.

I wonder about the positivity rate too. For several months I tested weekly, even after I was vaxx'd, because my mother lives in a congregate setting. When they removed that restriction that would be a whole lot of vaxx'd people who stopped getting tested every week (staff and visitors) - so if they are now testing less people who are mostly symptomatic - I guess that would put the positivity rate up even if cases are low?

ahoy_m8 · July 2021

@33gail33 and @lemurcat2 Yeah, I was wondering the exact same thing as you two-- Is positivity up due to vaccinated people testing less because they no longer need a negative as a precaution to do something. Hence, many more people testing actually have symptoms and need to eliminate covid as a cause.

When I got a stubborn cold after reopening (2 months after 2nd vaccine), I had a covid test not because I thought it was likely I had it but to know if I needed to quarantine. No reason to test otherwise.

ETA: My county's positive high was 40% in March 2020 when tests were rationed to people with symptoms. It has risen over 20% 3 times since then corresponding with waves in May 2020, July 2020 and Jan 2021-- all before widespread vaccine availability

kimny72 · July 2021

I saw a quick report on the news that was a reminder of why its not a great idea to just let the unvaxxed get sick and live like nothing is wrong - hospitals in Kansas City are reaching capacity and starting to have to cancel elective and non-emergency surgeries, and doctors nurses and respiratory pros are having to give up days off and pull double shifts again. I also don't even want to think about how all these unexpected hospital stays, ICU stays, and emergency care will affect my insurance premiums in the coming years. In addition to spikes increasing the probability of breakthrough cases.

jenilla1 · July 2021

33gail33 wrote: »

...You're basically arguing that because you've had the vaccine and done your bit (how is getting a vaccine that protects you "doing your bit"? All you've done is protect yourself--no bit doing!) it's none of your concern that you're shedding virus.

The vaccine protects me, and those around me. If I was exposed it would substantially reduce the viral load, thereby almost eliminating my risk of severe illness, while ALSO greatly reducing my capacity to spread the virus to others...

This is true. Getting the vaccine does more than just protect yourself. It's not simply a selfish thing.

The_Enginerd · July 2021

kimny72 wrote: »

I saw a quick report on the news that was a reminder of why its not a great idea to just let the unvaxxed get sick and live like nothing is wrong - hospitals in Kansas City are reaching capacity and starting to have to cancel elective and non-emergency surgeries, and doctors nurses and respiratory pros are having to give up days off and pull double shifts again. I also don't even want to think about how all these unexpected hospital stays, ICU stays, and emergency care will affect my insurance premiums in the coming years. In addition to spikes increasing the probability of breakthrough cases.

My partner and I were discussing this yesterday. At this point, I'm all for charging higher rates (akin to smokers) or allowing insurers to exempt coverage for COVID-19 care for those that choose not to be vaccinated. We need to stop socializing the cost they are hoisting upon the rest of society in terms of care for COVID, making others sick, and stressing our health care system. We've put more than enough carrots out there. Maybe it's time for the sticks.

lemurcat2 · July 2021

jenilla1 wrote: »

33gail33 wrote: »

...You're basically arguing that because you've had the vaccine and done your bit (how is getting a vaccine that protects you "doing your bit"? All you've done is protect yourself--no bit doing!) it's none of your concern that you're shedding virus.

The vaccine protects me, and those around me. If I was exposed it would substantially reduce the viral load, thereby almost eliminating my risk of severe illness, while ALSO greatly reducing my capacity to spread the virus to others...

This is true. Getting the vaccine does more than just protect yourself. It's not simply a selfish thing.

Yes, it's completely true. I wanted to get vaxxed to protect myself, sure, and same with most people I know, but I also think vaccines are important (and would get vaxxed even if I thought there was no risk to myself from covid) bc it has helped things go back to normal (and thus the economy), and bc I think the more people who are vaxxed, the more it protects everyone and helps us reach herd immunity.

Gisel2015 · July 2021

The article below is for all of the people that think that COVID is a hoax and vaccines are not worthy. I am so pissed!!!!!

If you can't/shouldn't get the vaccine due to health reasons, please protect yourself and others by wearing a mask.

If this variant (Delta) had been the original one, we would probably had over 1 million people already death in the US due to the transmission of the virus and the fact that we didn't have vaccines or enough knowledge on how to treat sick people. We have now vaccines that are very effective in controlling serious disease, hospitalizations, and deaths. So why, why, do people don't take advantage of vaccines to keep themselves and others safe??

If this mentality had been around in the 50s, when the polio vaccine became available, we would have now a population of paralyzed people and many children, now adults, would be dead.

The pandemic is 'spiraling out of control' due to un-vaccinated people.

For anyone who loves freedom and hates mask mandates or remote learning, Dr. Jerome Adams has a blunt message: Get vaccinated.
"And it's coming because this pandemic is spiraling out of control yet again. And it's spiraling out of control because we don't have enough people vaccinated."
"The thing that's making this possible is the fact that we are dealing with the most transmissible version of Covid-19 that we've seen to date," current US Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy said.
So eligible Americans who want to prevent more mask mandates, business closures and a return to remote learning need to do their part and get vaccinated, said Adams, the Trump administration official.
"It's going to help every single American enjoy the freedoms that we want to return to," he said.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/25/health/us-coronavirus-sunday/index.html

The_Enginerd · July 2021

I've seen parts of this post shared in memes mistakenly attributed wholly to Macron, but the sentiment of frustration is shared by many of us that have done our part and are still suffering the burden from the poor choices of those around us. Let those who continue to choose to not be vaccinated suffer the restrictions and burden rather than the rest of us.

https://facebook.com/selvaggia.lucarelli/posts/10158195351935983

ythannah · July 2021

Since I just saw a current (reported yesterday - CBC) Canadian stat re vaccine side effects, I thought I'd throw it in here:

According to Public Health Agency of Canada data, there have been only 2,222 serious adverse events reported post-vaccination in Canada as of July 9. That's just 0.005 per cent of all doses administered.

Coronavirus prep

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