OK, let's talk

Thank you for your post and the work that all the team and mods do on the site!

I'm glad that you deleted the "drama" threads for the sake of others here. I don't think the forums should be clogged up with nonsense!

I think there are a lot of things which can be done to improve the site and the forums but like you said time is a factor and I don't know how you feel about taking people on who can help voluntarily for other roles other than being moderators.

Something you could consider implementing rather than the suggestions forum, is a suggestions page, where you have the title of a suggestion, a description of the suggestion when you click into it, then people could "like" the title as they can with blog posts and vote them up, you could then get a good idea of what the users of the site feel is important in improving mfp as well as your own ideas and this could help you in prioritising things to be done when you have the time.

I have to pop out now but I may come back to this thread this evening. (I only made it to page 5!!)

I'm wondering if, when looking at ideas of running the forums/fora, you might want to look at similar topical social networking types of sites? The one that comes to mine is Ravelry - I use it a LOT as someone who knits and crochets. There were growing pains there and the 2008 US presidential election was...interesting, but they worked out arrangements that suited everyone. You may want to talk to Casey about how he handled things there.

Just a thought.

lol I can't tell you how many times I've wished this place was more like the Ravelry boards. Have you joined the My Fitness Pal Ravelry group?

No! I'm usually closeted in CPaAG. I should, though!

Thanks for the site Mike, it's assisted me in losing weight I couldn't lose before.
Also thank you for making it free.

I appreciate what you are trying to do here, and I appreciate all that has been said.

One little comment... if it isn't ok to talk LBGTQ.... then it also shouldn't be ok to talk religion.
Discussions on religion offends me as much as LBGTQ offends others and it sparks equally as much debate..

Just my two cents.

I can't wait for groups, like buttons, ignore features and all that you have planned.

Thanks again... you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Yeah. This. I see SO MUCH talk of Christianity, being a Christian, "I'm a Christian woman" and so on I am getting really uncomfortable in some of the MFP threads. Note: this is a feeling I have only been getting from MFP. If mention of something like LBGTQ isn't allowed, the same should apply.

I'm the creator of MyFitnessPal. I'm the one that has been moderating a lot of the topics today. I think there have been a lot of misperceptions about what we've been doing, and what our goals are for the forums and the site, so I wanted to try to clarify all of that and also answer any questions people might have.

First, let me start by stating that our preference would be to let anyone on the site talk about anything - religion, sex, politics, you name it. We'd much rather moderate as little as possible. Some people seem to think the mods are on a power-trip, but believe me, moderating is a pain in the neck. All of us would much rather not have to moderate at all.

But our belief is that the forums play a critical role in helping people reach their goals. People who participate in the forums can not only find the answers to questions they have about being healthier, but more importantly, they can make new friends who can give them the critical support and motivation they need to stay on track. For a lot of long-time members, MFP becomes a lot more than just a diet tool - it becomes their friends, even their family. And those relationships can play an absolutely critical role in helping people reach their goals. That's why we created the site, and why we made it free - because we wanted to help as many people as possible to live healthier lives.

The issue is that MFP attracts people from all walks of life. We have people who are atheists, and people who are devoutly Christian. We have people who want to flirt with others, and we have mothers and fathers who might use their computer in a living room and don't want their children to accidentally see a photo they are uncomfortable with. And more simply, we have people whose personalities don't mesh well, and they just don't get along. These are just some of the things that can cause conflicts on the forums, and if we just let them go, feelings inevitably get hurt and drama ensues. Some people like drama, but for most, it becomes draining, and eventually, makes you want to leave the site. And when that happens, you lose that support network that is so critical. I think a lot of people are seeing that in action today.

We don't want that to happen. We want people to achieve their goals. So, we've put forum rules in place to try to keep the forums a safe, supportive environment for everyone, and we've put in place a set of VOLUNTEER moderators who spend their own time and energy, for FREE, to try to keep MyFitnessPal the amazing place we all want it to be. In the main forums, the rules are designed to try to keep content and posts in a range where we think almost everyone will be comfortable. This way, the forums can help the most people possible.

Now, we know that people want to discuss all sorts of things, not just the ones that everyone is comfortable with. So we are working on Groups. With Groups, MFP members will be able to invite members to form a Group, and each group will have it's own message board. Those boards will still be subject to site-wide rules, but their content will be less restricted than the main forums and they will be self-moderated. Each group's creator can nominate moderators who will be responsible for moderating the content in that group. Our hope is that groups will give people a venue where they can discuss virtually anything they'd like, undisturbed by people who aren't comfortable or don't like the same topics.

On the main forums, though, we'll still have restrictions in place. And no matter what, we're not going to allow people to attack, harass, or otherwise insult other people on the site. Lately, we've seen a lot of that. Specifically:

- We've seen members jump onto a topic from a poster they don't like and try to derail it, making off-topic, derogatory, or insulting posts so that the topic gets ruined.

- We've seen members gang up on and make fun of other users they don't like

- We've seen members trying to push the limits of our sexual content rules, making thinly veiled sexual references and always trying to push the line

So, we're trying to change all of that. But make no mistake - this is our fault, and more specifically, my fault. I don't think I've done a good job of making the rules clear, for example. A lot of people don't even know the rules exist (they do). The moderating team we have is amazing, but there are too few of them, and the site has been growing like crazy so they've quickly become overwhelmed. We've been so busy trying to improve the site that we haven't had the chance to recruit more mods, and we haven't had a person at MyFitnessPal who could devote a significant amount of time to the forums. And because the mods are so overworked, they don't have time to notify people sometimes why topics or posts are deleted, or to send warnings to try to discourage bad behavior.

I then compounded that mistake by trying to jump in and help them to bring the forums back to the environment we wanted. But instead, people started misinterpreting our actions (or more specifically, my actions), rumors started to fly of bans (we haven't banned anyone), and pretty soon we were getting more and more reports, and more and more complaints. We had less and less time to explain to people what we were doing, and thus there was more and more confusion.

So, I'm trying to correct that now. If you have questions or comments, post them in this topic and I will answer them as best as I can. My only request is that you keep your posts and questions constructive so that we can try to find the best answers together.

So, let's talk.

Thanks for this site Mike. You have done an excellent job taking suggestions and making improvements from members too.
Quite frankly drama is what caused my weight gain to begin with, so I avoid any threads that seem to be causing it. Some people thrive on drama, so it is great you are giving these people "groups" where their soap operas can play out.

Again, thanks for all you do & for keeping MFP FREE!!!!!

I like how people keep bringing up the ones on this site that are under 18,you do all no they are not even supposed to be here right?

yes, I was going to mention that--

Bottom line, I think what it all boils down to is that common sense isn't common, nor can it be legislated or mandated. People hope that it will be used, but when it isn't there isn't a whole lot anybody can do about it.

Whether it's sexual or religious, people go off the deep ends defending their view and attacking the other.

Personally, I am a Christian woman. However, if I wander into a forum where it turns off-color, I don't squawk and report. I leave. Whether it "should" or "shouldn't" be allowed isn't my concern. I don't like the conversation. I leave. Common sense.

I'm not a fan of all the innuendo. I find it childish and high school. But, it's America-- people have the right to be childish and high school. I'll shield my own children from it where I can, and leave people to themselves. If it violates forum rules, that's Mike's problem.

I think it's sad that the situation has gotten to this point. People need to grow up.

Thank you very much Mike. I never want to offend anyone. But I also don't like being forced to talk only about weight loss, bunnies and rainbows. I love the idea of groups that only members of that group could see. There's no reason for anyone to have to see something they don't want, if they aren't looking for it. But if they go into a group they'll know what to expect.

Attacks should never be acceptable. But sadly some people have very thin skin. Tell them you don't believe in the same religion or political party they do and they think they're under assault by legions of trolls. Also I'm not offended by body parts or language. Other people are. Instead of arguing over who's mature and what the purpose of this sight is we can just agree to disagree and travel in different circles. No harm, no foul.

Mostly though I just hope you are making a fortune off this site. You deserve it. You've got a ton of people here who have lost a whole lot of weight. Your success rate is probably as high if not higher than WW and all those other diet plans. And yours is free! Advertising alone may not be the most profitable route but it probably helps sign up a lot of new users who wouldn't join otherwise. More users = higher advertising rates = someday Mike spending his days poolside as opposed to worrying about our silly nonsense.

Thank you and I wish you all the success in the world!

Another idea might be to have some sort of messenger where 2+ MFP'ers can chat just amongst themselves?

Thanks for all you do!

I like the chat idea as well. But I also wouldn't mind this turning into more of a social-weightloss site as I have met tons of awesome people and made some good new friends here.

Thansk!

Posted in the forums but I will post here too :

Wed 09/14/11 09:04 AM
I honestly didn't want this to get lost in the 10+ pages of the "OK, Let's Talk" thread.
I was reading and some people mentioned a reputation system. Reputation system seems like a great idea!!!!

On an online game I play, "League of Legends", the company who designed the game came up with a reputation system which they call "The Tribunal". Basically in a nutshell "The Tribunal was created with a number of purposes in mind. Its primary mission, of course, is to empower the community to dictate what conduct it considers inappropriate to a positive gameplay environment. While we have banned a large number of people for serious and obvious harassment, competitive environments -- particularly in a relatively anonymous setting -- can sometimes foster rude, unpleasant behavior."

Here is the logistics behind their reputation system. I think it might translate well to MFP (disregard all the gaming nomenclature please) but if you read it and understand the idea of it then you can see that it might work well for MFP!


DISCLAIMER: Please ignore the gaming nomenclature and the IP rewards and whatever is associated with the game, focus on the idea behind the tribunal! Thanks

And sorry, it's LONG..... but might be worth the read! And hell if this works on teenagers/adults it certainly can work here, no?
And this would take off a huge LOAD off the moderators because it would be up to the community to be adults and act on people misbehaving!


Here is the FAQ section of their Tribunal


"Q: What is the Tribunal and why was it created?

A: The Tribunal was created with a number of purposes in mind. Its primary mission, of course, is to empower the community to dictate what conduct it considers inappropriate to a positive gameplay environment. While we have banned a large number of people for serious and obvious harassment, competitive environments -- particularly in a relatively anonymous setting -- can sometimes foster rude, unpleasant behavior.

Another primary objective is to once again reinforce the importance of the tenets proscribed through the Summoner’s Code.

Q: Can my temporary suspension be lifted?

A: No. We will not lift or reduce your temporary suspension for any reason under any circumstance.

Q: What information do I have to help me make a decision?

A: As an arbitrating player you will have access to a number of materials to help you determine guilt or innocence in a particular instance. These items will include:

Game statistics for all reports that a given player has accrued.
The reason that they were reported in each instance.
The defendant player’s score for each game in which he was reported.
The defendant player’s inventory for each game in which he was reported
Chat logs for each of the games that generated a harassment report.
The player in question’s Summoner statistics.

Q: When should I be voting to punish?

A: When you’re reviewing cases that have reached the Tribunal system for arbitration, remember that your most important resource to make the right decision is the Summoner’s Code. The Code is a blueprint for positive player behavior, and outlines the proper response to most situations that you will encounter in game. In general, when a player is in clear violation of these guidelines, and it is damaging someone else’s enjoyment of the game, you should feel empowered to punish them for it.

Generally speaking, a punishable offense must be a deliberate, malicious act that is intended to spoil another player’s experience. Here are some examples of situations that might constitute punishable offenses:

Explicit use of hate terms, racial slurs, cultural epithets, etc.
Players who deliberately and viciously insult other players.
Repeatedly negative, unconstructive attitudes
Players whose teasing crosses the line, and who persist after being asked repeatedly to stop.
Deliberately disruptive gameplay, such as intentional feeding.

Q: When should I be voting to Pardon?

A: Here are some examples of times where reported players should be pardoned.

Players who are celebrating, but not intending to be offensive.
Players who are playfully quipping at one another.
Someone who is reacting to another player’s repeated badgering or insulting behavior.
Players who are not responding to other players or do not speak the language, but otherwise aren’t displaying any negative or strange behavior.
Players who display poor performance, but do not appear to be intentionally feeding or otherwise disrupting gameplay.
Players who cease their negative behaviors and/or apologize when another player informs them that they have taken things too far and asks them to stop.

Q: If found guilty, what will the punishment consist of?

A: Reported players, if found guilty, will be temporarily suspended from the game. Each time a player is found guilty, the maximum suspension duration will go up. After a number of times, your account will be escalated automatically to a Player Support Specialist for review. Depending on the severity, the representative can take action up to a possible permanent ban.

Q: How many votes are required to result in a suspension?

A: Currently, we are deliberately keeping the specific number of punishment votes required for disciplinary action a secret. However, in the interest of fairness, players must be subject to an overwhelming majority of guilty votes to undergo punishment.

Q: How are the reports that I am allowed to view selected?

A: The reports over which you will be presiding will be selected and assigned randomly by the Tribunal system. You will not be able to choose which cases you review.

Q: Will players be able to see who voted on their case?

A: No. We feel that it is extremely important that a certain level of confidentiality is maintained.

Q: How much IP can I receive from voting?

A: It depends on whether or not you vote correctly. If you vote on a case, and the majority disagrees with your assessment, you’ll receive no rewards; however, if you help decide the outcome of a report, you’ll be compensated with a small amount of IP. We haven’t decided on the amount that will be allocated per case, but the maximum that you can earn per day will be comparable to the amount you would gain after playing for a few hours online.

Q: Does the decision I make on a report affect the amount of IP I earn?

A: Yes! If your recommendation matches the final verdict, you will receive an IP reward for your civil service. The system is designed in this manner in order to create an incentive for players to render thoughtful, intelligent decisions on each and every case that they evaluate.

We will also be taking into account the frequency with which a player votes against the majority in order to weed out those players who are either voting excessively erratically, out of touch with the general will of the community, or deliberately attempting to disrupt consensus.

Q: I have multiple accounts. Can I earn my daily IP on each of them?

A: Certainly. But bear in mind that you must be at least level 30 to serve as part of the Tribunal.

Q: Can I vote on reports that I have submitted?

A: At present you can, but an upcoming update to the system will prevent players from being randomly assigned their own reports.

Q: How many player reports can I vote on each day?

A: Currently, we are limiting the number of cases that a player can vote on to 30 per day, but this number will be subject to review and change based upon our early observations of how players are utilizing the system.



Concerned Summoner FAQ

Q: Can people who don’t like me repeatedly report me?

A: This could only be the case if you find yourself repeatedly matched into games with them. Players are limited to one report per player, per game.

Q: I just got reported. Does this mean I will be reviewed by the Tribunal?

A: It depends, but generally, no. Players are only reviewed by the Tribunal if there is significant evidence to support a need for their behavior to be reviewed. Our system takes a variety of factors into account as player reports roll in, so simply getting reported once is unlikely to land you in front of the Tribunal. Here are a few of the factors considered before you find yourself on the docket:

Accounts that accrue a large volume of player reports are much more likely to be reviewed.
New accounts are judged more stringently than veterans.
The reputation of the player who is reporting you will also be taken into account. Reports made by level 30 Summoners with clean record will be weighed more heavily than those submitted by newer accounts and/or those whose reputation has been tarnished by frequent harassment reports.

Q: What are the most common reasons for a Summoner to be reported?

A: The most common reasons cited for player reports are either harassment or disruption of gameplay (intentional feeding, etc.). Bear in mind that the definition of harassment can range from direct, overt verbal harassment, to intentionally creating an unpleasant gameplay environment.

Generally speaking, if you’re abiding by the Summoner’s Code, you’ll find that other Summoners will enjoy playing with you.

Q: Will my account information be available if I’m reported?

A: Riot Games will never share personal information such as credit cards, email addresses, billing addresses, etc. with anyone. However, your chat logs, game scores, and other data that might be directly relevant to judging your case will be available for review. In general, it is safest to always assume that anything that you say in public game chat could end up on the internet for everyone to see. Please be careful what personal information you disclose during your time playing League of Legends.

Q: What if I was incorrectly reported? How will the Tribunal know I’m innocent?

A: Like any trial that employs a jury system, once you are selected for evaluation by the Tribunal your guilt or innocence will determined by your peers. However, with your game data as evidence, if you have in fact been incorrectly reported, it is our sincerest hope that you will be pardoned.

Like any democratic system, however, the Tribunal is only as good as its checks and balances. As such, a member of the Riot Games Player Support Team will be assigned to audit the system, paying particularly close attention to any serious penalties doled out by the Tribunal and confirming the verdict before allowing the punishment to be carried out. Moreover, except in the most extreme of cases, first offenses will almost always be warnings. In the event that you receive such a warning, just consider it a friendly reminder to observe the Summoner’s Code.

Q: Can I vote to pardon myself if I’m reported?

A: No. The system will never assign you to review a case against yourself.

Q: I was suspended by the Tribunal. How long am I suspended for?

A: Suspensions that happen as a result of Tribunal review works on a graduated system, carrying progressively harsher penalties for repeat offenders. In almost all cases, the first offense is a warning rather than a ban. Following that, additional appearances before the Tribunal might carry penalties ranging from a single day to several weeks.

Q: I’m permanently banned, is there any way to appeal?

A: You always have the option to submit an appeal to our Player Support Team, but it is extremely unlikely that we will decide to rescind a permanent ban. This is largely because all permanent bans are distributed manually, after careful review of all the evidence, which is generally pretty conclusive.

Q: I’m a paying user and was suspended. I feel like I should be given a bit more leniency than free users.

A: We want League of Legends to be an enjoyable experience for all Summoners and we see the Tribunal as a way to help achieve that goal. Once the Tribunal has spoken, you’ll have to live with your punishment. We cannot give any leniency to users, regardless of the money they’ve spent.

Q: How else can I be suspended or permanently banned?

A: In extreme cases, if a member of the Riot Games staff witness’s poor player conduct, they may make a judgment call to issue an immediate suspension or ban. With over a hundred Riot Games employees who play thousands of games a day, you just never know when you could be playing with a Rioter!

Additionally, various violations of the EULA and Terms of Use (such as intentional feeding) sometimes carry penalties that may include suspension of a player account. Also, remember that even if you are not explicitly reported, leaving or going AFK in games may still net you an automatic ban from our LeaverBuster system!"

Hey Mike, I have been around here for about 3 years and was wondering if you had a more current pic. I wanna see how much gray hairs this site has given you. :bigsmile:

Thanks for this site BTW.

Wonderful site! Love what you are doing for all of us! As for the rules, maybe you need to insert the rules into the sign up process - that way everyone sees them as they sign up. I didn't find them until a few months AFTER I was on here, just dinking around. And once in a while, maybe a pop up on everyones home page? Something to refresh everyones memories once in a while.

Again, thank you for all you do for all of us!

The only problem I have ever encountered is people not replying to my posts ... I did wonder if that was a cultural thing with some many from the usa on here and I am in the uk what I mean by that is things getting lost in translation and perhaps people dont always get each other (but actually I am half american anyhow)...

But getting back on track and too the point I agree with all that you say Mike I haven't seen much of the bullying but if I had I would have been upset by that .. there seems to be the mentality of the troll on many forums in the last 2 years and yet and it would be a shame if that happens here as you have done so much good ...

Isnt the case that we all have a common goal and that is too look after our health so perhaps we should all remind ourselves of that and get back to what mfp does best which is being supportive.
Something to keep in mind and that is most people with weigh issues have been bullied most of their young and adult life
I suspect most of us knows what that feels like ... so why are we doing that in here where we are trying to do something about our weight....
Lets draw a line and start over from here right now! PLEASE for everyones sake and enjoyment!

and something else we all know the rules I wdnt play around trying to cover all aspects etc etc if someone does something abhorant just ban them .. dont let people play with the moderators and stress them out etc plus stretch the rules etc by sayin you havent followed the new proceedures ... personally i wdnt make new ones i would makes sure we have all read your forum rules and then hit the delete button for anyone messing with the forums rules ... IMHO people learn a lot faster that way.

Five Pages Of Posts Later, I didn't see the idea I have, so I'll just assume no one has said it.

First, Mike, you have a great site here. It is a wonderful tool to so many. Through this site, while working on getting more healthy (somehow I've lost no weight, but have lost fat and muscle...psh, I'll take it!! haha), I have been introduced to some friends I plan on having for a VERY long time, even after my weight loss.

Second, I think the side bar "Recent Forum Topics" is what might need to be revamped. For example, every topic that gets posted in that area are from any group/forum type. Maybe, if its not to hard, make it so the Chit-Chat Fun and Games doesn't leak into that area. Keep it only fitness/food related topics. If someone goes into Chit-Chat Fun, they know they are going into a portion of the site that is NOT completely related to fitness so they shouldn't/can't complain. This would also drown out someone typing to click on something and getting an unexpected peak of something that could be inappropriate with children in the room.

Thanks for listen, it's nice to be able to give feedback.

I think lifting the ban on non-x-rated discussions of sexuality and non-offensive discussion of religion (or lackthereof!) is a great thing.

Give people enough rope, and the ones that create problems will hang themselves. The rest of us will be respectful.

If someone posts that they're GLBTQ, or straight, or Christian, or Jewish, or Buddhist, or an atheist and you get people slamming them for it... there's your problem people. Punish them, whether it's deleting the offending post, warning the member, a temporary suspension, or a ban. Punish the people who do wrong, not the people who innocently set off their buttons.

We're all, or should be, adults. We all should be able to support and be respectful of our fellow members whether we agree with them on every point or not. We very likely have all gone to school or had jobs where we had to interact with people we might not have liked. If someone can bite their tongue enough to not tell their bosses, teachers, classmates, coworkers, clients, etc. to stick something where the sun doesn't shine, then can play nice on here.

you'd think, huh?

Sounds simple enough-- it IS as easy as Thumper....we teach our kids. Our parents taught us.

I think there should be an option of blocking certain people from replying to your post. Not just in groups, but, for instance, if I want to post a topic about something, and there are certain people or a certain person that seem to always post something negative on my posts, no matter how harmless they are. If possible, maybe there should be some sort of option to block certain members you would prefer to just not come into contact with.

Is this thread still going ??? Holy Moly Roly!

I read some of the last few replies and finally gave up reading. Although some suggestions sound feasible, other's are down right juvenile.

Come on people .. Time to grow up and realize .. THIS is the Internet .. You have to be able to take it or leave it. NEVER NEVER NEVER take it seriously. An open forum is filled with just as many good outstanding informative people as idiots.

This is no place for a power trip. If you ask for advise or make an open comment .. be prepared to get a response (whether it be positive or negative..you are going to get both). Getting all bent outta shape because someone disagrees with you is soooo juvenile.

Sure, some people can push it to the limit, that's where the moderators come in. They can see if it's getting out of hand. If they choose to close a thread do to a plummeting content .. So be it .. THAT is what a moderator does..Let it end there.

Sheesh .. A lot of complaining .. over what ? Time to move on and enjoy the show.

Life is too short to sweat the small stuff!