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Coronavirus prep

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Replies

  • SModa61
    SModa61 Posts: 1,887 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    In passenger seat and skipped over much of above, but will go back later. I will describe the experience of good friends which I do find concerning.

    Husband got his second Moderna shot. That night, he got sick. You can debate whether related or not. Description used words like paralysis, but nurse wife ultimately labeled if seizure. Brought to er and admitted. Tests done. Wife asked for antibody assessment several times, out of concern of vaccine reaction. Was refused. Was told no proof of causality and “not on list”. IMO if one never examines an oddly timed illness for consideration of association, then how does it ever get on the list. And if only items on the list get considered, then new problems are never identified. Anyhow, assuming this was all described to me accurately, I find it concerning and makes me wonder about all kinds on claims.

    Quick edit: this gentleman also had confirmed COVID Xmas 2020.

    If he had the vaccine recently, you would expect him to have antibodies. How would that remotely qualify as evidence that the vaccination caused the stroke?

    Blood clots are one of the known and recognized side effects of these vaccines, some manufacturers more than others. Don't act like it's so far outside the realm of possibility.

    I'm not. I'm questioning what the implication of being refused an antibody test is supposed to be. There doesn't seem to be any question of whether he had the vaccine. What would screening for antibodies prove? It's irrelevant but is included in the anecdote as though it shows some malfeasance on the part of the medical team.

    I’m pretty sure this is just confusion on the part of someone who’s not a medical expert. There are different kinds of antibodies. Testing for antibodies against the coronavirus would, as you said, be pointless since they would be expected in someone who had received the vaccine. However, in someone having an autoimmune reaction to a vaccine, a test will reveal antibodies against their own body’s neural cells, called antigangliocide antibodies. It would be quite reasonable to ask for such a test, especially since the wife was a medical professional, and not outside the realm of possibility for a small hospital’s ER to be staffed with dummies who refused it, since Guillain-Barre is pretty rare and one of those things that gets misdiagnosed by doctors who aren’t looking for it.

    In any case, it has nothing to do with blood clots, which is a whole different thing. Testing for antibodies would not reveal whether a blood clot that caused a stroke was the result of the vaccine, there is no simple test for that. And finding that a blood clot caused a stroke would mean that it wasn’t Guillain-Barre.

    @rheddmobile I sincerely appreciate your efforts to address the anecdote I shared, and unfortunately I can only share what I was told, and did not, not do not, have the knowledge you all have to ask more specific questions. IMM, what I assumed I was being told is that the husband's symptoms, per the friend's analysis, pointed to an overload of COVID antibodies and thus causing the reaction. So to me, the idea of asking to test COVID antibodies to see if they were inappropriately high would have made sense. From what you have said above, it sounds like my thoughts/assumptions make no sense. Is that correct that natural infection plus two vaccinations could not produce nor show (through testing) an unhealthy level of COVID antibodies?
  • MargaretYakoda
    MargaretYakoda Posts: 1,943 Member
    In Washington State. I got my vaccines at a local grocery store pharmacy. I was given a paper to read and sign. I don’t think I was given anything to take home but I might have and just tossed it.

    My husband got his shots at the VA in Seattle. Same thing. But he also got a sticker. ;)
  • SModa61
    SModa61 Posts: 1,887 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    SModa61 wrote: »
    In passenger seat and skipped over much of above, but will go back later. I will describe the experience of good friends which I do find concerning.

    Husband got his second Moderna shot. That night, he got sick. You can debate whether related or not. Description used words like paralysis, but nurse wife ultimately labeled if seizure. Brought to er and admitted. Tests done. Wife asked for antibody assessment several times, out of concern of vaccine reaction. Was refused. Was told no proof of causality and “not on list”. IMO if one never examines an oddly timed illness for consideration of association, then how does it ever get on the list. And if only items on the list get considered, then new problems are never identified. Anyhow, assuming this was all described to me accurately, I find it concerning and makes me wonder about all kinds on claims.

    Quick edit: this gentleman also had confirmed COVID Xmas 2020.

    If he had the vaccine recently, you would expect him to have antibodies. How would that remotely qualify as evidence that the vaccination caused the stroke?

    Blood clots are one of the known and recognized side effects of these vaccines, some manufacturers more than others. Don't act like it's so far outside the realm of possibility.

    I'm not. I'm questioning what the implication of being refused an antibody test is supposed to be. There doesn't seem to be any question of whether he had the vaccine. What would screening for antibodies prove? It's irrelevant but is included in the anecdote as though it shows some malfeasance on the part of the medical team.

    I’m pretty sure this is just confusion on the part of someone who’s not a medical expert. There are different kinds of antibodies. Testing for antibodies against the coronavirus would, as you said, be pointless since they would be expected in someone who had received the vaccine. However, in someone having an autoimmune reaction to a vaccine, a test will reveal antibodies against their own body’s neural cells, called antigangliocide antibodies. It would be quite reasonable to ask for such a test, especially since the wife was a medical professional, and not outside the realm of possibility for a small hospital’s ER to be staffed with dummies who refused it, since Guillain-Barre is pretty rare and one of those things that gets misdiagnosed by doctors who aren’t looking for it.

    In any case, it has nothing to do with blood clots, which is a whole different thing. Testing for antibodies would not reveal whether a blood clot that caused a stroke was the result of the vaccine, there is no simple test for that. And finding that a blood clot caused a stroke would mean that it wasn’t Guillain-Barre.

    @rheddmobile I sincerely appreciate your efforts to address the anecdote I shared, and unfortunately I can only share what I was told, and did not, not do not, have the knowledge you all have to ask more specific questions. IMM, what I assumed I was being told is that the husband's symptoms, per the friend's analysis, pointed to an overload of COVID antibodies and thus causing the reaction. So to me, the idea of asking to test COVID antibodies to see if they were inappropriately high would have made sense. From what you have said above, it sounds like my thoughts/assumptions make no sense. Is that correct that natural infection plus two vaccinations could not produce nor show (through testing) an unhealthy level of COVID antibodies?

    An overload of antibodies against an illness isn’t really a thing. As long as the antibodies are targeting the virus, having a lot of them is what’s supposed to happen. Antibodies are specific and don’t attack anything except the thing they target. There can be a problem if antibodies mistakenly attack some other cells of the body, which is what’s called an autoimmune response.

    It sounds like you may have heard something about a cytokine storm, which is an inflammatory response within the body where cytokines are overproduced and attack everything. A cytokine isn’t an antibody, it’s a type of protein. Cytokine storms are a common way for people to die from covid but aren’t normally a response to vaccination - I looked briefly and didn’t see any info on this as a known side effect.

    @rheddmobile I don't remember the word cytokine used. If there is an appropriate moment, maybe I will reach back out to my friend for clarification. Thanks for the further explanation about antibodies. :)
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,245 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    I'm in the US. I got my Pfizer vaccine at a drive-through run by a local hospital system. In the line of cars before the first shot, we were given a written handout that included information about side effects. There was enough time in the line to read that handout, i.e., it wasn't right at the check-in where the shot was administered.

    I can't remember where I put it (or even whether I kept it). From memory, I think it mentioned only the more common side effects, but included something about where to get more information. At the time, again from memory, I think some of the very rare but serious side effects had not yet been identified/confirmed (like the blood clots).

    I'm not doubting Lynn's account in the slightest, just saying that - as with so many things - experiences in different parts of the US, maybe even experiences with different vaccine providers in the same area, will have been different.

    We're weird that way over here, folks in other places with central administration of these things.

    Yes, we are. When said at the pop-up vax site I went to "in the U.S.," I didn't mean to imply that my experience would reflect all experiences in the U.S. Was just trying to say my experience was different from the person I was responding to, who I think is in the U.K.
  • callsitlikeiseeit
    callsitlikeiseeit Posts: 8,344 Member
    we live in virginia. my husband and I receive most of our healthcare in NC. we were vaccinated at a drive through clinic provided by our PCP in march. we received handouts regarding side effects and potential issues at the time of vaccination.

    my son was vaccinated here in VA in june? right when the vaccine was approved for kids. At a drugstore. We signed up online. I dont recall getting a handout but I imagine we did?
  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,183 Member
    Having a copy on line does not help those without computers............
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 25,210 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    I'm in the US. I got my Pfizer vaccine at a drive-through run by a local hospital system. In the line of cars before the first shot, we were given a written handout that included information about side effects. There was enough time in the line to read that handout, i.e., it wasn't right at the check-in where the shot was administered.

    I can't remember where I put it (or even whether I kept it). From memory, I think it mentioned only the more common side effects, but included something about where to get more information. At the time, again from memory, I think some of the very rare but serious side effects had not yet been identified/confirmed (like the blood clots).

    I'm not doubting Lynn's account in the slightest, just saying that - as with so many things - experiences in different parts of the US, maybe even experiences with different vaccine providers in the same area, will have been different.

    We're weird that way over here, folks in other places with central administration of these things.

    Yes, we are. When said at the pop-up vax site I went to "in the U.S.," I didn't mean to imply that my experience would reflect all experiences in the U.S. Was just trying to say my experience was different from the person I was responding to, who I think is in the U.K.

    Oh, yes, of course - I understand. I was just trying to expand on the messy diversity of US experience.

    Also, I got a sticker . . . so I am *extra* cool. 🤣

    lqx8awgb1u2v.jpg

    I got a handout but no sticker :disappointed: