Coronavirus prep
Replies
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GaleHawkins wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »
Don't you expect Australia to become red hot when they open up like most western nations are doing?
No - because they will open incrementally and temporary state borders will be re implemented as neccesary, that is the pattern now
And because more people will be vaccinated by then, as opposed to Florida where most of the deaths were pre vaccine/ unvacvinated people
And because it is extremely unlikely unvaccinated people will be able to enter from other countries.13 -
Covid will likely be endemic (this is not news, people have been acknowledging that for a while, and it is different than a continuing pandemic), but that's not such a terrible thing in the long run and it certainly doesn't mean that vaccines did not work/should now be dismissed as a failure.
A couple of pieces I found reasonable and helpful:
https://cspicenter.org/blog/waronscience/why-covid-19-is-here-to-stay-and-why-you-shouldnt-worry-about-it/
"Sooner or later, as a result of both infections and vaccination, virtually everyone will develop some immunity against SARS-CoV-2. This immunity will not always prevent infection, but even if someone who has been vaccinated or previously infected gets reinfected, they will typically develop only a mild form of the disease, because while still not perfect the protection against severe illness that immunity confers is better and doesn’t wane as quickly as protection against infection. Even the protection against severe illness will likely wane after a while, but this won’t really be a problem because, since immunity is much less effective against infection and new people are going to get born who are completely susceptible because they have never been infected yet and won’t be vaccinated, the virus will continue to circulate so most people will be reinfected every few years. Most people see that as a bug, but in a way, it may actually be a feature. Indeed, those reinfections will typically be mild because immunity protects well against severe illness, but they will update immunity and therefore ensure that, the next time someone is infected, this reinfection is also mild....
Eventually most people will have a primary infection when they’re children, which is perfectly harmless and, together with subsequent infections, will protect them against severe illness later, when infection would be more dangerous if they didn’t have any immunity. Since once people have immunity, infections are generally mild, most people likely won’t even bother getting vaccinated because the probability of becoming seriously ill due to SARS-CoV-2 will be very small since 1) the risk of getting infected in the first place will be low because immunity still offers some protection against infection and the virus will circulate much less after it has become endemic and 2) even if they are infected they will typically be well protected against severe illness. Elderly people will be the exception because their immune system is compromised, so for them it will make sense to get a vaccine booster on a regular basis and I expect that it’s what most of them will do, as they already do against the flu. Once it has become endemic, which again will take a few years or even decades for the transition to be fully over, SARS-CoV-2 will become just another respiratory virus and will never cause the damages it has just wrought on us again. At last, it will have become “just like the flu”, except that it probably won’t be as bad as the flu if only because immunity will be more effective and longer-lasting...."
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/how-we-live-coronavirus-forever/619783/
"The current spikes in cases and deaths are the result of a novel coronavirus meeting naive immune systems. When enough people have gained some immunity through either vaccination or infection—preferably vaccination—the coronavirus will transition to what epidemiologists call “endemic.” It won’t be eliminated, but it won’t upend our lives anymore.
With that blanket of initial immunity laid down, there will be fewer hospitalizations and fewer deaths from COVID-19. Boosters can periodically re-up immunity too. Cases may continue to rise and fall in this scenario, perhaps seasonally, but the worst outcomes will be avoided.
We don’t know exactly how the four common-cold coronaviruses first came to infect humans, but some have speculated that at least one also began with a pandemic. If immunity to the new coronavirus wanes like it does with these others, then it will keep causing reinfections and breakthrough infections, more and more of them over time, but still mild enough. We’ll have to adjust our thinking about COVID-19 too. The coronavirus is not something we can avoid forever; we have to prepare for the possibility that we will all get exposed one way or another. “This is something we’re going to have to live with,” says Richard Webby, an infectious-disease researcher at St. Jude. “And so long as it’s not impacting health care as a whole, then I think we can.” The coronavirus will no longer be novel—to our immune systems or our society....
The transition to endemic COVID-19 is also a psychological one. When everyone has some immunity, a COVID-19 diagnosis becomes as routine as diagnosis of strep or flu—not good news, but not a reason for particular fear or worry or embarrassment either. That means unlearning a year of messaging that said COVID-19 was not just a flu. If the confusion around the CDC dropping mask recommendations for the vaccinated earlier this summer is any indication, this transition to endemicity might be psychologically rocky. Reopening felt too fast for some, too slow for others. “People are having a hard time understanding one another’s risk tolerance,” says Julie Downs, a psychologist who studies health decisions at Carnegie Mellon University."
I apologize, I didn't get to click thru to read the article yet, but I don't think the messaging will be that difficult because I don't think this flip is going to just happen one day. As long as a large enough percentage of the world pop is unvaxxed, we will have rolling spikes of new variants that may challenge the immune systems of different people. Anytime a new variant hits a less wealthy area, a lot of people are going to get very sick. If the antivirals they are working on come thru it will help, but we all know what healthcare access is like in the US.
Anyway, I'd guess it'll be a gradual thing. Localized spikes leading to mask alerts and a death toll will become less and less common. We may possibly be on alert for awhile when a new variant arrives from a not well-vaxed part of the world, like the ebola scares. And just because it becomes endemic doesn't mean it isn't a serious risk for an unvaxxed person or a compromised immune system anytime soon.
If the common cold coronaviruses started as an epidemic as suspected, it happened a very long time ago. It could have taken generations to go from a scary fatal disease to an annoyance. We're talking about eventually.
Also, I'm not really comforted by the idea that it'll be "just like the flu" like some people are. Thousands of people in the US die from the flu every year, and thousands more spend weeks, and a lot of healthcare dollars, getting over it. Adding another circulating virus like that just means greater odds that at risk people will catch something nasty and possibly fatal. Vaccinations and hand hygiene will be doubly important.
Don't mean to be a negative nelly! I definitely hear multiple virologists and public health officials talking about us "learning to live with" covid-19, but it's always centered on vaccinations. The road to herd immunity, endemic covid-19, or some combo of the two, without increased vaccinations, comes from too many more people dying. There have already been cities that have had a second wave, and while it might not have been as bad as the first, it was still bad. I don't think there's any reason to assume there may not be bad third waves, just smaller and slightly more manageable for hospitals. I hope it petering out happens sooner than it feels like it will!12 -
The transition to endemic COVID-19 is also a psychological one. When everyone has some immunity, a COVID-19 diagnosis becomes as routine as diagnosis of strep or flu—not good news, but not a reason for particular fear or worry or embarrassment either. That means unlearning a year of messaging that said COVID-19 was not just a flu. If the confusion around the CDC dropping mask recommendations for the vaccinated earlier this summer is any indication, this transition to endemicity might be psychologically rocky. Reopening felt too fast for some, too slow for others. “People are having a hard time understanding one another’s risk tolerance,” says Julie Downs, a psychologist who studies health decisions at Carnegie Mellon University."
It will be interesting to see how that all plays out. It's been difficult enough for health authorities to convince some folks that Covid needed to be taken seriously but for others it has instilled genuine terror. I think that will be a difficult switch to flip.
One of the grocery stores where I shop frequently is still disinfecting the checkout belt between customers, despite the change in messaging about surface contamination quite a while back.
On the other hand, we've all learned some useful practices about disease prevention that will hopefully serve to reduce germ transmission going forward. One of my coworkers who goes into child care facilities frequently caught every passing bug and was constantly sick, in one year she had strep twice and pneumonia once. She says she will continue mask-wearing indefinitely.
This actually seems like a best practice without regard to COVID. One customer may put packed raw meat and poultry on the belt, with no knowledge of whether it might have rested in liquid from a leaking adjacent pack or be leaking itself, and the next person might put foods that will be eaten raw on the belt.12 -
With the flu, it's usually the very old and the very young who die. That will likely be the case for Covid as it continues.
I had a long conversation today with a neighbor who has Covid, as does her husband. He just got out of the hospital for the second time. He was on a ventilator but then they sent him home while he still had a fever of 103. The next day he passed out and had to be taken back to the hospital. She said they hadn't gotten the vaccine because they never go anywhere, so she didn't feel like she was likely to get exposed. She does go to Walmart, which is almost entirely maskless. She went there to pick up medicine for her husband after she had tested positive for Covid. I wonder if she was wearing a mask? I doubt it. She also believes that Covid is being spread by airplanes flying overhead, so who knows what other conspiracy theories they believe about the virus.19 -
Yeah learning to live with endemic Covid is going to be interesting. I have been home sick all week with a bad cold/flu (not Covid) - I need to go back into the office next week but I have a really bad cough which experience tells me will probably linger for a while. Not sure what to do - post viral cough can linger for weeks - and I can't stay home that long.
I do think we are going to have to stop relying on symptoms. They've mentioned on TWIV that it seems clear vaccinated people are only contagious for a short time, if at all. They even think the initial 2 week quarantine for unvaxxed positive tests is probably more than necessary. But better access to cheaper tests would sure help too.
And as someone whose been about as cautious about covid as anyone, I don't think twice about hearing someone in the office coughing. I'm vaccinated and they aren't coughing in my face, so I'm not too concerned.
Does your work have rules about employees with symptoms? Can you get tested to be sure?
Regardless, hope you feel well soon!7 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »As they say time changes all things. It seems like reality is starting to sink into the world's mind how lockdowns are hurting the poor and children the most while none of the vaccines have a long-term pandemic stopping effect and most of the world is not going to be vaccinated. We had to give vaccines a shot. They saved many as we learned better how to treat/live with it.
This is an ongoing effort. It would be literally impossible to vaccinate 90% of the world in one year, and anyone who suggests that not getting that done means we failed is fear mongering. The vaccines are a historic scientific achievement and continue to slow down the pandemic. It's up to us to continue getting people their shots.
Pandemics don't stop like slamming a door shut. They slow down as vaccination spreads and eventually slows to a trickle or stop. It was unrealistic to think a few months of vaccinations and everything would be fine, and the science never said it would be.12 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »The transition to endemic COVID-19 is also a psychological one. When everyone has some immunity, a COVID-19 diagnosis becomes as routine as diagnosis of strep or flu—not good news, but not a reason for particular fear or worry or embarrassment either. That means unlearning a year of messaging that said COVID-19 was not just a flu. If the confusion around the CDC dropping mask recommendations for the vaccinated earlier this summer is any indication, this transition to endemicity might be psychologically rocky. Reopening felt too fast for some, too slow for others. “People are having a hard time understanding one another’s risk tolerance,” says Julie Downs, a psychologist who studies health decisions at Carnegie Mellon University."
It will be interesting to see how that all plays out. It's been difficult enough for health authorities to convince some folks that Covid needed to be taken seriously but for others it has instilled genuine terror. I think that will be a difficult switch to flip.
One of the grocery stores where I shop frequently is still disinfecting the checkout belt between customers, despite the change in messaging about surface contamination quite a while back.
On the other hand, we've all learned some useful practices about disease prevention that will hopefully serve to reduce germ transmission going forward. One of my coworkers who goes into child care facilities frequently caught every passing bug and was constantly sick, in one year she had strep twice and pneumonia once. She says she will continue mask-wearing indefinitely.
This actually seems like a best practice without regard to COVID. One customer may put packed raw meat and poultry on the belt, with no knowledge of whether it might have rested in liquid from a leaking adjacent pack or be leaking itself, and the next person might put foods that will be eaten raw on the belt.
It does create a helluva long queue at the checkouts though. And I'm not wild about my foods-that-will-be-eaten-raw coming into contact with chemical disinfectants (I've put purchases down on a wet belt several times) that probably aren't safe for consumption.4 -
Covid will likely be endemic (this is not news, people have been acknowledging that for a while, and it is different than a continuing pandemic), but that's not such a terrible thing in the long run and it certainly doesn't mean that vaccines did not work/should now be dismissed as a failure.
A couple of pieces I found reasonable and helpful:
https://cspicenter.org/blog/waronscience/why-covid-19-is-here-to-stay-and-why-you-shouldnt-worry-about-it/
"Sooner or later, as a result of both infections and vaccination, virtually everyone will develop some immunity against SARS-CoV-2. This immunity will not always prevent infection, but even if someone who has been vaccinated or previously infected gets reinfected, they will typically develop only a mild form of the disease, because while still not perfect the protection against severe illness that immunity confers is better and doesn’t wane as quickly as protection against infection. Even the protection against severe illness will likely wane after a while, but this won’t really be a problem because, since immunity is much less effective against infection and new people are going to get born who are completely susceptible because they have never been infected yet and won’t be vaccinated, the virus will continue to circulate so most people will be reinfected every few years. Most people see that as a bug, but in a way, it may actually be a feature. Indeed, those reinfections will typically be mild because immunity protects well against severe illness, but they will update immunity and therefore ensure that, the next time someone is infected, this reinfection is also mild....
Eventually most people will have a primary infection when they’re children, which is perfectly harmless and, together with subsequent infections, will protect them against severe illness later, when infection would be more dangerous if they didn’t have any immunity. Since once people have immunity, infections are generally mild, most people likely won’t even bother getting vaccinated because the probability of becoming seriously ill due to SARS-CoV-2 will be very small since 1) the risk of getting infected in the first place will be low because immunity still offers some protection against infection and the virus will circulate much less after it has become endemic and 2) even if they are infected they will typically be well protected against severe illness. Elderly people will be the exception because their immune system is compromised, so for them it will make sense to get a vaccine booster on a regular basis and I expect that it’s what most of them will do, as they already do against the flu. Once it has become endemic, which again will take a few years or even decades for the transition to be fully over, SARS-CoV-2 will become just another respiratory virus and will never cause the damages it has just wrought on us again. At last, it will have become “just like the flu”, except that it probably won’t be as bad as the flu if only because immunity will be more effective and longer-lasting...."
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/how-we-live-coronavirus-forever/619783/
"The current spikes in cases and deaths are the result of a novel coronavirus meeting naive immune systems. When enough people have gained some immunity through either vaccination or infection—preferably vaccination—the coronavirus will transition to what epidemiologists call “endemic.” It won’t be eliminated, but it won’t upend our lives anymore.
With that blanket of initial immunity laid down, there will be fewer hospitalizations and fewer deaths from COVID-19. Boosters can periodically re-up immunity too. Cases may continue to rise and fall in this scenario, perhaps seasonally, but the worst outcomes will be avoided.
We don’t know exactly how the four common-cold coronaviruses first came to infect humans, but some have speculated that at least one also began with a pandemic. If immunity to the new coronavirus wanes like it does with these others, then it will keep causing reinfections and breakthrough infections, more and more of them over time, but still mild enough. We’ll have to adjust our thinking about COVID-19 too. The coronavirus is not something we can avoid forever; we have to prepare for the possibility that we will all get exposed one way or another. “This is something we’re going to have to live with,” says Richard Webby, an infectious-disease researcher at St. Jude. “And so long as it’s not impacting health care as a whole, then I think we can.” The coronavirus will no longer be novel—to our immune systems or our society....
The transition to endemic COVID-19 is also a psychological one. When everyone has some immunity, a COVID-19 diagnosis becomes as routine as diagnosis of strep or flu—not good news, but not a reason for particular fear or worry or embarrassment either. That means unlearning a year of messaging that said COVID-19 was not just a flu. If the confusion around the CDC dropping mask recommendations for the vaccinated earlier this summer is any indication, this transition to endemicity might be psychologically rocky. Reopening felt too fast for some, too slow for others. “People are having a hard time understanding one another’s risk tolerance,” says Julie Downs, a psychologist who studies health decisions at Carnegie Mellon University."
I apologize, I didn't get to click thru to read the article yet, but I don't think the messaging will be that difficult because I don't think this flip is going to just happen one day. As long as a large enough percentage of the world pop is unvaxxed, we will have rolling spikes of new variants that may challenge the immune systems of different people. Anytime a new variant hits a less wealthy area, a lot of people are going to get very sick. If the antivirals they are working on come thru it will help, but we all know what healthcare access is like in the US.
Anyway, I'd guess it'll be a gradual thing. Localized spikes leading to mask alerts and a death toll will become less and less common. We may possibly be on alert for awhile when a new variant arrives from a not well-vaxed part of the world, like the ebola scares. And just because it becomes endemic doesn't mean it isn't a serious risk for an unvaxxed person or a compromised immune system anytime soon.
If the common cold coronaviruses started as an epidemic as suspected, it happened a very long time ago. It could have taken generations to go from a scary fatal disease to an annoyance. We're talking about eventually.
Also, I'm not really comforted by the idea that it'll be "just like the flu" like some people are. Thousands of people in the US die from the flu every year, and thousands more spend weeks, and a lot of healthcare dollars, getting over it. Adding another circulating virus like that just means greater odds that at risk people will catch something nasty and possibly fatal. Vaccinations and hand hygiene will be doubly important.
Don't mean to be a negative nelly! I definitely hear multiple virologists and public health officials talking about us "learning to live with" covid-19, but it's always centered on vaccinations. The road to herd immunity, endemic covid-19, or some combo of the two, without increased vaccinations, comes from too many more people dying. There have already been cities that have had a second wave, and while it might not have been as bad as the first, it was still bad. I don't think there's any reason to assume there may not be bad third waves, just smaller and slightly more manageable for hospitals. I hope it petering out happens sooner than it feels like it will!
I disagree with other things too, but I just want to be clear that both articles I posted assumed vaccines as part of the way covid-19 becomes endemic vs pandemic and not so much of a threat. Not sure why the response is to suggest the pieces are anti vax. My main reason for posting was to combat a vax doesn't work post.6 -
spiriteagle99 wrote: »With the flu, it's usually the very old and the very young who die. That will likely be the case for Covid as it continues.
The old, so far the very young are the least susceptible to covid.
2 -
Covid will likely be endemic (this is not news, people have been acknowledging that for a while, and it is different than a continuing pandemic), but that's not such a terrible thing in the long run and it certainly doesn't mean that vaccines did not work/should now be dismissed as a failure.
A couple of pieces I found reasonable and helpful:
https://cspicenter.org/blog/waronscience/why-covid-19-is-here-to-stay-and-why-you-shouldnt-worry-about-it/
"Sooner or later, as a result of both infections and vaccination, virtually everyone will develop some immunity against SARS-CoV-2. This immunity will not always prevent infection, but even if someone who has been vaccinated or previously infected gets reinfected, they will typically develop only a mild form of the disease, because while still not perfect the protection against severe illness that immunity confers is better and doesn’t wane as quickly as protection against infection. Even the protection against severe illness will likely wane after a while, but this won’t really be a problem because, since immunity is much less effective against infection and new people are going to get born who are completely susceptible because they have never been infected yet and won’t be vaccinated, the virus will continue to circulate so most people will be reinfected every few years. Most people see that as a bug, but in a way, it may actually be a feature. Indeed, those reinfections will typically be mild because immunity protects well against severe illness, but they will update immunity and therefore ensure that, the next time someone is infected, this reinfection is also mild....
Eventually most people will have a primary infection when they’re children, which is perfectly harmless and, together with subsequent infections, will protect them against severe illness later, when infection would be more dangerous if they didn’t have any immunity. Since once people have immunity, infections are generally mild, most people likely won’t even bother getting vaccinated because the probability of becoming seriously ill due to SARS-CoV-2 will be very small since 1) the risk of getting infected in the first place will be low because immunity still offers some protection against infection and the virus will circulate much less after it has become endemic and 2) even if they are infected they will typically be well protected against severe illness. Elderly people will be the exception because their immune system is compromised, so for them it will make sense to get a vaccine booster on a regular basis and I expect that it’s what most of them will do, as they already do against the flu. Once it has become endemic, which again will take a few years or even decades for the transition to be fully over, SARS-CoV-2 will become just another respiratory virus and will never cause the damages it has just wrought on us again. At last, it will have become “just like the flu”, except that it probably won’t be as bad as the flu if only because immunity will be more effective and longer-lasting...."
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/how-we-live-coronavirus-forever/619783/
"The current spikes in cases and deaths are the result of a novel coronavirus meeting naive immune systems. When enough people have gained some immunity through either vaccination or infection—preferably vaccination—the coronavirus will transition to what epidemiologists call “endemic.” It won’t be eliminated, but it won’t upend our lives anymore.
With that blanket of initial immunity laid down, there will be fewer hospitalizations and fewer deaths from COVID-19. Boosters can periodically re-up immunity too. Cases may continue to rise and fall in this scenario, perhaps seasonally, but the worst outcomes will be avoided.
We don’t know exactly how the four common-cold coronaviruses first came to infect humans, but some have speculated that at least one also began with a pandemic. If immunity to the new coronavirus wanes like it does with these others, then it will keep causing reinfections and breakthrough infections, more and more of them over time, but still mild enough. We’ll have to adjust our thinking about COVID-19 too. The coronavirus is not something we can avoid forever; we have to prepare for the possibility that we will all get exposed one way or another. “This is something we’re going to have to live with,” says Richard Webby, an infectious-disease researcher at St. Jude. “And so long as it’s not impacting health care as a whole, then I think we can.” The coronavirus will no longer be novel—to our immune systems or our society....
The transition to endemic COVID-19 is also a psychological one. When everyone has some immunity, a COVID-19 diagnosis becomes as routine as diagnosis of strep or flu—not good news, but not a reason for particular fear or worry or embarrassment either. That means unlearning a year of messaging that said COVID-19 was not just a flu. If the confusion around the CDC dropping mask recommendations for the vaccinated earlier this summer is any indication, this transition to endemicity might be psychologically rocky. Reopening felt too fast for some, too slow for others. “People are having a hard time understanding one another’s risk tolerance,” says Julie Downs, a psychologist who studies health decisions at Carnegie Mellon University."
I apologize, I didn't get to click thru to read the article yet, but I don't think the messaging will be that difficult because I don't think this flip is going to just happen one day. As long as a large enough percentage of the world pop is unvaxxed, we will have rolling spikes of new variants that may challenge the immune systems of different people. Anytime a new variant hits a less wealthy area, a lot of people are going to get very sick. If the antivirals they are working on come thru it will help, but we all know what healthcare access is like in the US.
Anyway, I'd guess it'll be a gradual thing. Localized spikes leading to mask alerts and a death toll will become less and less common. We may possibly be on alert for awhile when a new variant arrives from a not well-vaxed part of the world, like the ebola scares. And just because it becomes endemic doesn't mean it isn't a serious risk for an unvaxxed person or a compromised immune system anytime soon.
If the common cold coronaviruses started as an epidemic as suspected, it happened a very long time ago. It could have taken generations to go from a scary fatal disease to an annoyance. We're talking about eventually.
Also, I'm not really comforted by the idea that it'll be "just like the flu" like some people are. Thousands of people in the US die from the flu every year, and thousands more spend weeks, and a lot of healthcare dollars, getting over it. Adding another circulating virus like that just means greater odds that at risk people will catch something nasty and possibly fatal. Vaccinations and hand hygiene will be doubly important.
Don't mean to be a negative nelly! I definitely hear multiple virologists and public health officials talking about us "learning to live with" covid-19, but it's always centered on vaccinations. The road to herd immunity, endemic covid-19, or some combo of the two, without increased vaccinations, comes from too many more people dying. There have already been cities that have had a second wave, and while it might not have been as bad as the first, it was still bad. I don't think there's any reason to assume there may not be bad third waves, just smaller and slightly more manageable for hospitals. I hope it petering out happens sooner than it feels like it will!
I disagree with other things too, but I just want to be clear that both articles I posted assumed vaccines as part of the way covid-19 becomes endemic vs pandemic and not so much of a threat. Not sure why the response is to suggest the pieces are anti vax. My main reason for posting was to combat a vax doesn't work post.
I wasn't meaning to suggest the article was anti vaxx, sorry if it came off that way. I've heard a lot of anti vaxx rhetoric latch onto the idea that since covid will just become an endemic minor thing anyway, we should just let it happen already, so that's what it got me thinking about.2 -
https://www.wkyt.com/2021/09/30/kentucky-prioritizing-people-need-monoclonal-antibody-treatment/
Locally the monoclonal antibody treatment has helped several unvaccinated with serious health issues recover from Covid-19. They're several new antiviral new meds in testing that may be helpful as we move from the pandemic mindset world wide. Locally schools are the super spreaders leading to natural immunity in the large unvaccinated population.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »The transition to endemic COVID-19 is also a psychological one. When everyone has some immunity, a COVID-19 diagnosis becomes as routine as diagnosis of strep or flu—not good news, but not a reason for particular fear or worry or embarrassment either. That means unlearning a year of messaging that said COVID-19 was not just a flu. If the confusion around the CDC dropping mask recommendations for the vaccinated earlier this summer is any indication, this transition to endemicity might be psychologically rocky. Reopening felt too fast for some, too slow for others. “People are having a hard time understanding one another’s risk tolerance,” says Julie Downs, a psychologist who studies health decisions at Carnegie Mellon University."
It will be interesting to see how that all plays out. It's been difficult enough for health authorities to convince some folks that Covid needed to be taken seriously but for others it has instilled genuine terror. I think that will be a difficult switch to flip.
One of the grocery stores where I shop frequently is still disinfecting the checkout belt between customers, despite the change in messaging about surface contamination quite a while back.
On the other hand, we've all learned some useful practices about disease prevention that will hopefully serve to reduce germ transmission going forward. One of my coworkers who goes into child care facilities frequently caught every passing bug and was constantly sick, in one year she had strep twice and pneumonia once. She says she will continue mask-wearing indefinitely.
This actually seems like a best practice without regard to COVID. One customer may put packed raw meat and poultry on the belt, with no knowledge of whether it might have rested in liquid from a leaking adjacent pack or be leaking itself, and the next person might put foods that will be eaten raw on the belt.
It does create a helluva long queue at the checkouts though. And I'm not wild about my foods-that-will-be-eaten-raw coming into contact with chemical disinfectants (I've put purchases down on a wet belt several times) that probably aren't safe for consumption.
While I'm conscious of my plastic consumption, I do put produce* in plastic bags because I don't want it to touch the belt and come in contact with raw meat liquid OR chemical disinfectants.
* The exception would be produce like bananas with a thick peel. I'd bag thin peel foods like potatoes because using a peeler would spread any contamination around.8 -
kshama2001 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »The transition to endemic COVID-19 is also a psychological one. When everyone has some immunity, a COVID-19 diagnosis becomes as routine as diagnosis of strep or flu—not good news, but not a reason for particular fear or worry or embarrassment either. That means unlearning a year of messaging that said COVID-19 was not just a flu. If the confusion around the CDC dropping mask recommendations for the vaccinated earlier this summer is any indication, this transition to endemicity might be psychologically rocky. Reopening felt too fast for some, too slow for others. “People are having a hard time understanding one another’s risk tolerance,” says Julie Downs, a psychologist who studies health decisions at Carnegie Mellon University."
It will be interesting to see how that all plays out. It's been difficult enough for health authorities to convince some folks that Covid needed to be taken seriously but for others it has instilled genuine terror. I think that will be a difficult switch to flip.
One of the grocery stores where I shop frequently is still disinfecting the checkout belt between customers, despite the change in messaging about surface contamination quite a while back.
On the other hand, we've all learned some useful practices about disease prevention that will hopefully serve to reduce germ transmission going forward. One of my coworkers who goes into child care facilities frequently caught every passing bug and was constantly sick, in one year she had strep twice and pneumonia once. She says she will continue mask-wearing indefinitely.
This actually seems like a best practice without regard to COVID. One customer may put packed raw meat and poultry on the belt, with no knowledge of whether it might have rested in liquid from a leaking adjacent pack or be leaking itself, and the next person might put foods that will be eaten raw on the belt.
It does create a helluva long queue at the checkouts though. And I'm not wild about my foods-that-will-be-eaten-raw coming into contact with chemical disinfectants (I've put purchases down on a wet belt several times) that probably aren't safe for consumption.
While I'm conscious of my plastic consumption, I do put produce* in plastic bags because I don't want it to touch the belt and come in contact with raw meat liquid OR chemical disinfectants.
* The exception would be produce like bananas with a thick peel. I'd bag thin peel foods like potatoes because using a peeler would spread any contamination around.
Yeah you don't know what has been on that belt. Friend just told me about this. He was in line at a grocery store, guy in front of him was sagging and leaning up against the checkout. When the guy turned a bit my friend saw a brown streak on the exposed tidy whities the guy with the sagging jeans was wearing.
Friend went to a different register and hasn't been back to rhat store.2 -
In Australia, $1million up for grabs, milliondollarvax campaign with the funds being donated by philanthropists. I'd be interested to know if the rate of vaccinations has a sharp increase in October.
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I hope your vaccination number do go up, though I fear paying someone to have a vaccine is not exactly wise. In my view its better they understand the benefits for themselves and the community being less likely to be as ill from it. Opening your borders to your own twice vaccinated persons, allowing those trapped over seas to return home must be wonderful news for so many families.
Crossing finger we can all everywhere get hands on or should it be arms under a vaccine. Its still rather worrying.6 -
Hello I'm new here6
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Yeah learning to live with endemic Covid is going to be interesting. I have been home sick all week with a bad cold/flu (not Covid) - I need to go back into the office next week but I have a really bad cough which experience tells me will probably linger for a while. Not sure what to do - post viral cough can linger for weeks - and I can't stay home that long.
I do think we are going to have to stop relying on symptoms. They've mentioned on TWIV that it seems clear vaccinated people are only contagious for a short time, if at all. They even think the initial 2 week quarantine for unvaxxed positive tests is probably more than necessary. But better access to cheaper tests would sure help too.
And as someone whose been about as cautious about covid as anyone, I don't think twice about hearing someone in the office coughing. I'm vaccinated and they aren't coughing in my face, so I'm not too concerned.
Does your work have rules about employees with symptoms? Can you get tested to be sure?
Regardless, hope you feel well soon!
My husband got sick a few days before me and he tested negative so I didn't bother. I definitely got whatever he has.
My work is ridiculous - it's a small firm of 7 people and the guy who runs it won't come in if anyone else is there (so we all have to stay home on Friday's and he goes in then and in the evenings the rest of the week) and the rest of us just basically have to fend for ourselves and make our own rules. I basically emailed everyone and told them I NEED to go in Monday so if they don't want to be around me then stay home until I leave. I'll work from home for another couple of days after that. It's a *kitten*-show really there is no leadership or policy. We are all vaccinated so I'm not too concerned either.
I've been sick for a week and can't remember when a cold hit me this hard. I am wondering if isolating for so long means that when we finally are exposed to even non-Covid germs again they just hit us that much harder? Gonna make sure to get a flu shot this fall.8 -
Yeah learning to live with endemic Covid is going to be interesting. I have been home sick all week with a bad cold/flu (not Covid) - I need to go back into the office next week but I have a really bad cough which experience tells me will probably linger for a while. Not sure what to do - post viral cough can linger for weeks - and I can't stay home that long.
I do think we are going to have to stop relying on symptoms. They've mentioned on TWIV that it seems clear vaccinated people are only contagious for a short time, if at all. They even think the initial 2 week quarantine for unvaxxed positive tests is probably more than necessary. But better access to cheaper tests would sure help too.
And as someone whose been about as cautious about covid as anyone, I don't think twice about hearing someone in the office coughing. I'm vaccinated and they aren't coughing in my face, so I'm not too concerned.
Does your work have rules about employees with symptoms? Can you get tested to be sure?
Regardless, hope you feel well soon!
My husband got sick a few days before me and he tested negative so I didn't bother. I definitely got whatever he has.
My work is ridiculous - it's a small firm of 7 people and the guy who runs it won't come in if anyone else is there (so we all have to stay home on Friday's and he goes in then and in the evenings the rest of the week) and the rest of us just basically have to fend for ourselves and make our own rules. I basically emailed everyone and told them I NEED to go in Monday so if they don't want to be around me then stay home until I leave. I'll work from home for another couple of days after that. It's a *kitten*-show really there is no leadership or policy. We are all vaccinated so I'm not too concerned either.
I've been sick for a week and can't remember when a cold hit me this hard. I am wondering if isolating for so long means that when we finally are exposed to even non-Covid germs again they just hit us that much harder? Gonna make sure to get a flu shot this fall.
Ugh, that all sounds super frustrating.
Again just parroting what I remember hearing from all these virology podcasts, but unless we were in a hermetically sealed bubble, our immune systems were dealing with invaders the whole time and are no weaker than they were 2 years ago. Feel free to take that with a grain of salt though, as I can't credit it to any specific moment or source. I remember one host saying a child playing in their backyard would encounter plenty of germs and such to keep their immune system fired up. But I guess we'll all find out for ourselves here. I'm with you, I'll be sure to get my flu shot sometime this month. And I am way more aware of the lapses in hand hygiene I used to not think about after having been out in public!5 -
I know it's been a while since I've been on this thread, but something came up yesterday. Just another side bar to how Covid-19 has effected so many. My wife has been in the process of losing one sibling (she has two living, one passed at 20 from a sudden brain aneurism). Her only sister has likely only months to live from advanced early Alzheimer's and that's been very tough on her.
She got a call yesterday that her oldest sibling, her brother, has cancer. They found a lime sized tumor that's growing, on his kidney. Yet, he has to wait two months to get it taken out because the hospitals in Cincinnati are so full with Covid patients (nearly all of them unvaccinated).
When this started, it was so easy for me to see the immediate risks, but these things you never think about, and the entire scenarios that have stemmed from people refusing to be vaccinated, are just mind bogglingly stupid and aggravating.
I follow a lot of the cancer research and know that we're so far ahead of where we were just 5 or 10 years ago, but he shared with her how nervous he is waiting to know if it's spread and they can't take it out for months. That's very sad.27 -
Yes- Mike-- it is incredibly SAD esp. since so many of the hospitalizations for Covid COULD have been avoided or at least stays made shorter IF they would have simply gotten the vaccine---I pray for your wife's sibling - so tired of all the collateral damage from this!9
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Yeah learning to live with endemic Covid is going to be interesting. I have been home sick all week with a bad cold/flu (not Covid) - I need to go back into the office next week but I have a really bad cough which experience tells me will probably linger for a while. Not sure what to do - post viral cough can linger for weeks - and I can't stay home that long.
I do think we are going to have to stop relying on symptoms. They've mentioned on TWIV that it seems clear vaccinated people are only contagious for a short time, if at all. They even think the initial 2 week quarantine for unvaxxed positive tests is probably more than necessary. But better access to cheaper tests would sure help too.
And as someone whose been about as cautious about covid as anyone, I don't think twice about hearing someone in the office coughing. I'm vaccinated and they aren't coughing in my face, so I'm not too concerned.
Does your work have rules about employees with symptoms? Can you get tested to be sure?
Regardless, hope you feel well soon!
My work is kind of ridiculous in this regard. One of my employees has had to stay out of the office since last Thursday. She has had a negative COVID test and also a doctors note stating that she has seasonal allergies and the symptoms are X, Y, and Z. Those symptoms happen to mirror some of the COVID symptoms so regardless of the negative test and the doctors note and she is vaxed, she cannot return to the office until she is symptom free for 72 hours. I don't know anyone with seasonal allergies who is symptom free during their allergy season...at this rate she could be home into perpetuity. They need to change this policy if in fact we're going to move forward...you can't keep people home if a virus is going to be endemic just because the symptoms are similar...especially if it's documented that it isn't COVID as per a test and an actual doctors note.
She called me yesterday to tell me she's going to just go on vacation for a week to Michigan since her allergies aren't going away and she can't come to the office.16 -
Had Pfizer #3 today, now eagerly anticipating my transmogrification into a government-controlled zombie robot (GCZR) 🤖. Can anyone give me a timeline on that, from experience? Some people I know say that the fact I got #3 (well #1-2, anyway) shows I'm already a GCZR, but I was thinking it would feel different. So confusing! 🤣
But seriously:
It was interesting to see the small ways that the drive-through vax center (in an old indoor auto care site) has changed since March. Less regimentation, less traffic-directing, less traffic, shorter lines, no obvious National Guard participation, and more. The post-vax monitoring was mostly just an employee checking in to say we could self-time when to leave, and what to look out for symptom-wise. Just one staff person periodically walking to the newer cars in line to explain that, mostly, rather than a more attentive continuing patrol by a couple of folks back in March, and a back then a need to wait until flagged as OK to leave.
So far, no side effects. Woman who gave me the injection said most people seem to get side effects similar to the previous shot, if that - extra symptoms rare.18 -
tiptoethruthetulips wrote: »In Australia, $1million up for grabs, milliondollarvax campaign with the funds being donated by philanthropists. I'd be interested to know if the rate of vaccinations has a sharp increase in October.
I entered and so did some others I told but we were already all vax'd ages ago so it's just a bonus if we win anything. It's actually over 4 million. 1 million is the major prize at the end but lots of smaller ones before then every day I believe. I do hope it helps to get more vaccinations. It's not good enough here if we do ever get an outbreak. My city never had it spread in the community still ever. We are wearing mask for two weeks though as we had someone here with it fly in but so far in over a week all is good still. He was double vaccinated so looks like we dodged another bullet.9 -
Have seen some interesting questions regarding why US vax/testing mandates while impacting federal workers, workers with over 100 employees they do not cover welfare or SNAP recipients. Have not really found any good reason why this isn't on the table.
It's a shame, since in the US the lower income population makes up a large unvaxed demographic.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Have seen some interesting questions regarding why US vax/testing mandates while impacting federal workers, workers with over 100 employees they do not cover welfare or SNAP recipients. Have not really found any good reason why this isn't on the table.
It's a shame, since in the US the lower income population makes up a large unvaxed demographic.
The mandate for companies with over 100 employees was done via OSHA, which does not cover welfare recipients.
The federal employee mandate was issued via executive order, applying only to the executive branch, which is why Congress, the legislative branch, is not subject to Presidential order either.
There are initiatives to reach the groups who are unvaccinated but willing.11 -
Well, my arrogant, conspiracy-theoried, anti-vax family ended up getting Covid. The preventative Ivermectin treatments they've been bragging about taking for months now failed to stop infection and failed to cure. Just found out my mom is in the hospital with Covid pneumonia. She's been sick for 10 days, and really bad for half that time, but they were too stubborn and proud to go in sooner. Nobody had the guts to tell me earlier - probably because of the disdain they showed me when I got vaxxed and received that evil microchip. Hoping for the best possible outcome. And yes, I'm pissed off!36
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@jenilla1 -- I'm so sorry to hear that. I wish her and you the best. That's sad to hear and I can't blame you being mad either.9
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kshama2001 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Have seen some interesting questions regarding why US vax/testing mandates while impacting federal workers, workers with over 100 employees they do not cover welfare or SNAP recipients. Have not really found any good reason why this isn't on the table.
It's a shame, since in the US the lower income population makes up a large unvaxed demographic.
The mandate for companies with over 100 employees was done via OSHA, which does not cover welfare recipients.
The federal employee mandate was issued via executive order, applying only to the executive branch, which is why Congress, the legislative branch, is not subject to Presidential order either.
There are initiatives to reach the groups who are unvaccinated but willing.
To me, it kind of feels like the executive branch is looking for pretty much any existing regulatory authority they have, that can be used to require vaccination or give a strong push to the unvaxinated hesitant.
Even if they have some relevant authority, I don't think welfare/SNAP would be the first go-to, simply because of how it would be received to make children's food/housing security dependent on the parents' vax status, in effect.11 -
Covid is spreading through the big cats at the local zoo. A snow leopard has died.
15
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