Coronavirus prep
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Our numbers are skyrocketing!! Iowa has had over 4,000 cases every day for the last week.11
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Even if a vaccine is available for most of us soonish and there's enough for everyone (unlikely) there's no way to know how long it will last is there? Maybe i'm missing something but the long term viability and long term effects are unable to be determined since it's hardly been long enough to really get any data.
Seeing as the flu is constantly mutating and we have to vaccinate against it yearly i'm not holding my breath that any vaccine will have lasting, long term viability and I don't think we should hang our hats on it.
I do think we should open up/stay open - those who are high risk should isolate, people should wear masks (though i'm not convinced that they really work as advertised, it's an easy enough thing to do), and general precautions but we have to get back to living. This isn't sustainable from a mental health or an economic standpoint.9 -
Even if a vaccine is available for most of us soonish and there's enough for everyone (unlikely) there's no way to know how long it will last is there? Maybe i'm missing something but the long term viability and long term effects are unable to be determined since it's hardly been long enough to really get any data.
Seeing as the flu is constantly mutating and we have to vaccinate against it yearly i'm not holding my breath that any vaccine will have lasting, long term viability and I don't think we should hang our hats on it.
I do think we should open up/stay open - those who are high risk should isolate, people should wear masks (though i'm not convinced that they really work as advertised, it's an easy enough thing to do), and general precautions but we have to get back to living. This isn't sustainable from a mental health or an economic standpoint.
Neither is having love ones, or yourself, in the hospital hooked up to a ventilator or 6 feet under ground. The economy will not flourish if people is sick and can't go to work. Sick or dead people are not very productive.
Yes, masks are easy to use and they do work. So let's do our part to keep everybody healthy until the vaccine is available to everybody. Wash hand frequently, stay away from large gatherings (yes, it sucks but it also protects), wear masks, keep distance.
Pfizer says early analysis of its vaccine shows it is more than 90% effective
"Drugmaker Pfizer said Monday that an early look at data from its coronavirus vaccine shows it is more than 90% effective -- a much better than expected efficacy if the trend continues.
The so-called interim analysis looked at the first 94 confirmed cases of Covid-19 among the more than 43,000 volunteers who either got two doses of the vaccine or a placebo. It found that fewer than 10% of Covid-19 infections were in participants who had been given the vaccine. More than 90% of the cases were in people who had been given a placebo.
In an interview with CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta on Monday morning, Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla called the Covid-19 vaccine "the greatest medical advance" in 100 years.
"Emotions are very high. You can imagine how I felt when I heard the results yesterday at 2 p.m. I think that likely, based on impact, this will be the greatest medical advance in the last 100 years," Bourla said. He added that Pfizer expects to have 50 million vaccine doses globally this year, and 1.3 billion next year.
Dr. Anthony Fauci told CNN on Monday that these results were good news for all vaccines because it shows that using the spike protein as a target was the right call and that this type of vaccine can be successful.
"This shows that the mRNA platform actually does work. And there's another vaccine candidate, Moderna, that's using the same platform," said Fauci, who as director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases is helping develop vaccines being made by Moderna and others, but not Pfizer’s.
In a news release, Pfizer said it plans to seek emergency use authorization from the FDA soon after volunteers have been monitored for two months after getting their second dose of vaccine, as requested by the FDA. It anticipates reaching that marker by the third week of November."
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »baconslave wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »baconslave wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Pfizer just announced that their vaccine is testing at 90% effective. That would be fantastic.
Also, BTW, Pfizer did not partake in Operation Warp Speed because they didn't want to obligate themselves to what taking public funds would mean. They did this pretty much on their own without help. Just in case you hear certain parties/people taking claim that "they alone" solved Coronavirus, that would be 100% false.
In addition they will do the distribution themselves because they have suppliers already lined-up. They know how to do it, and I think that they don't trust the ability of the government to keep the vaccine as such low temperatures as it is needed.
Word of caution: Pfizer just run what is called an interim efficacy analysis. They are still continuing with the study since not all participants have completed the second shot and the f/up vigilance phase. The company still needs to do the interim safety analysis (due toward the end of November), before they can apply for an FDA expedite approval. If everything is good.
We got good news from the company but please people don't count your chickens until all the eggs have hatched. Disappointments are hard to swallow.
Right.
And it's very important to remember that they are saying they'll have enough vaccine for only 25 million people. The CDC has said that health care workers are first in line. Then the elderly. "Widespread" vaccine availability for everyone won't be until next year. Masking and distancing will remain our reality for the rest of this year and most of next. Even then everyone won't get the vaccine at once, many require 2 doses, and coverage of the populace won't be 100% b/c sadly many won't take any vaccine no matter what.
We should all go forward knowing this will be over, but we still have quite a way to go. That's what is.
Regardless of vaccine status, we are locked into this path right now crafted by consequences we've courted for 8 months. There will be suffering. Even if everyone started following guidelines right this moment, we would still have a rough month and a half ahead. A vaccine isn't a point-n-click solution either. And I hold out zero hopes that we'll get much better mask/distancing compliance at this point.
There is a light!!! But the tunnel is still long.
Sorry to be a downer, but like Mike said, we've had enough disappointment. Let's be real and not hurt ourselves more than the wounds we're already accruing here. I do hope at some point soon the leadership of this country, whomever that ends up being, will have this talk with the American people. IMO, we'd do better to frame this as a "war time" effort.
The U.S. government is buying 100 million vaccines, not 25 million. Yes, healthcare workers get priority. We expected that as it was discussed months ago. Still, 100 million should be enough for healthcare workers plus some for people at higher risk. We need more for the rest of the country yet, but don't know how many more. I know some people won't take it and others won't need it because of a recent infection. At $1,950 per vaccine (this is what the federal government will pay Pfizer... they will be free for actual recipients), let's hope for a price discount on the 2nd order.
Place where I used to live in IA is a small town with a prison. Last week's numbers showed 365 new infections at the prison... the capacity is 1,000 and I have heard they are at about 900 now, so 365 cases means about 40% got sick just on the same week. I anticipate the other 60% will be reported in the next 2 weeks. While some may not care about inmates, these are people also. They have families and friends, and some of them also have underlying health conditions to consider. I sure hope they give them masks, but am not convinced of that with how fast it has spread there.
They may be buying 100 mil, but it will only be available for 25 million people (50 million doses, 2 each required per person) this year.
"Pfizer has estimated it could have 50 million doses available globally by the end of 2020, enough for 25 million people." https://apnews.com/article/pfizer-vaccine-effective-early-data-4f4ae2e3bad122d17742be22a2240ae8
That's by the end of 2020 and those 50 million doses are for the entire world. The reporting on the U.S. 100 million doses doesn't have a date attached.
From the article you linked:But in July, Pfizer signed a contract to supply the U.S. with 100 million doses for $1.95 billion, assuming the vaccine is cleared by the FDA.
But I suppose if it takes 2 doses per person, then only 50 million Americans will get it unless another order is placed. And cost is nearly $4K per patient. Either way, we are looking at several months before this becomes available to most of us.
Yep. All of that's what I'm sayin'.
So if the Pfizer vax is only providing 50mil doses end of year GLOBALLY, how many are the US going to get "immediately" when they are ready?
The "doom" of that thought aside, there are other vaccines on the way. I don't have specifics on how that's still tracking, but HHS says 300mil but with "initial doses" available in January 2021. Whatever that means. Maybe someone else reading knows more. Let's hope these are also as highly effective.
So, yeah. Still def not point-n-click, unfortunately.
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Even if a vaccine is available for most of us soonish and there's enough for everyone (unlikely) there's no way to know how long it will last is there? Maybe i'm missing something but the long term viability and long term effects are unable to be determined since it's hardly been long enough to really get any data.
Seeing as the flu is constantly mutating and we have to vaccinate against it yearly i'm not holding my breath that any vaccine will have lasting, long term viability and I don't think we should hang our hats on it.
I do think we should open up/stay open - those who are high risk should isolate, people should wear masks (though i'm not convinced that they really work as advertised, it's an easy enough thing to do), and general precautions but we have to get back to living. This isn't sustainable from a mental health or an economic standpoint.
I can live just fine without going to bars, restaurants, concerts, etc. (I do think industries like this should get financial relief.)
What I don't want to live without is my 82 yo mother. Worrying about her contracting the virus is what's bad for my mental health, not missing out on a few large gatherings until we get this under control.23 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »baconslave wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »baconslave wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Pfizer just announced that their vaccine is testing at 90% effective. That would be fantastic.
Also, BTW, Pfizer did not partake in Operation Warp Speed because they didn't want to obligate themselves to what taking public funds would mean. They did this pretty much on their own without help. Just in case you hear certain parties/people taking claim that "they alone" solved Coronavirus, that would be 100% false.
In addition they will do the distribution themselves because they have suppliers already lined-up. They know how to do it, and I think that they don't trust the ability of the government to keep the vaccine as such low temperatures as it is needed.
Word of caution: Pfizer just run what is called an interim efficacy analysis. They are still continuing with the study since not all participants have completed the second shot and the f/up vigilance phase. The company still needs to do the interim safety analysis (due toward the end of November), before they can apply for an FDA expedite approval. If everything is good.
We got good news from the company but please people don't count your chickens until all the eggs have hatched. Disappointments are hard to swallow.
Right.
And it's very important to remember that they are saying they'll have enough vaccine for only 25 million people. The CDC has said that health care workers are first in line. Then the elderly. "Widespread" vaccine availability for everyone won't be until next year. Masking and distancing will remain our reality for the rest of this year and most of next. Even then everyone won't get the vaccine at once, many require 2 doses, and coverage of the populace won't be 100% b/c sadly many won't take any vaccine no matter what.
We should all go forward knowing this will be over, but we still have quite a way to go. That's what is.
Regardless of vaccine status, we are locked into this path right now crafted by consequences we've courted for 8 months. There will be suffering. Even if everyone started following guidelines right this moment, we would still have a rough month and a half ahead. A vaccine isn't a point-n-click solution either. And I hold out zero hopes that we'll get much better mask/distancing compliance at this point.
There is a light!!! But the tunnel is still long.
Sorry to be a downer, but like Mike said, we've had enough disappointment. Let's be real and not hurt ourselves more than the wounds we're already accruing here. I do hope at some point soon the leadership of this country, whomever that ends up being, will have this talk with the American people. IMO, we'd do better to frame this as a "war time" effort.
The U.S. government is buying 100 million vaccines, not 25 million. Yes, healthcare workers get priority. We expected that as it was discussed months ago. Still, 100 million should be enough for healthcare workers plus some for people at higher risk. We need more for the rest of the country yet, but don't know how many more. I know some people won't take it and others won't need it because of a recent infection. At $1,950 per vaccine (this is what the federal government will pay Pfizer... they will be free for actual recipients), let's hope for a price discount on the 2nd order.
Place where I used to live in IA is a small town with a prison. Last week's numbers showed 365 new infections at the prison... the capacity is 1,000 and I have heard they are at about 900 now, so 365 cases means about 40% got sick just on the same week. I anticipate the other 60% will be reported in the next 2 weeks. While some may not care about inmates, these are people also. They have families and friends, and some of them also have underlying health conditions to consider. I sure hope they give them masks, but am not convinced of that with how fast it has spread there.
They may be buying 100 mil, but it will only be available for 25 million people (50 million doses, 2 each required per person) this year.
"Pfizer has estimated it could have 50 million doses available globally by the end of 2020, enough for 25 million people." https://apnews.com/article/pfizer-vaccine-effective-early-data-4f4ae2e3bad122d17742be22a2240ae8
This is where the Defense Production Act could really help in a huge way. The Defense Production Act was designed to have the Federal Govt assist (even if it's not wanted) private industry, or even take it over, if it was needed in an absolute emergency. Too bad that fragile feelings will stand in the way of ramping that up quickly.
IMHO, none of the vaccines will have a huge impact until next year. I'm not that optimistic, at all, about the remainder of Fall, Winter and early Spring. But I think that Americans will coalesce behind science by then, which will help with compliance in taking the vaccine and some semblance of working together as a nation, which would be pretty refreshing right about now.
That does sound amazing right about now.
Meanwhile, locally we are poised to learn things the hard way.
Hang in there, ladies and gents. The ride's going to get wilder before it settles down.10 -
My US based multi-national company just told US employees that can will continue working from home until at least 4/1/21. I'm guessing this will also include offices in some other parts of the world, but have not seen the full announcement.5
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This (link below) is all kind of early speculate-y arm-wave-y vapor, but interesting to think about, so I'm sharing.
https://www.engadget.com/nasal-spray-prevents-covid-19-infections-204611720.html
Don't read too much into my posting it: Not boosting/advocating, rather posting more in the spirit of " . . . hmm, wonder what strange but helpful avenues might remain unexplored as yet" (whether this turns out to be one, or not)4 -
This (link below) is all kind of early speculate-y arm-wave-y vapor, but interesting to think about, so I'm sharing.
https://www.engadget.com/nasal-spray-prevents-covid-19-infections-204611720.html
Don't read too much into my posting it: Not boosting/advocating, rather posting more in the spirit of " . . . hmm, wonder what strange but helpful avenues might remain unexplored as yet" (whether this turns out to be one, or not)
I saw that today on Linkedin as well Ann. Looks interesting. Anything can help, that's for sure.2 -
From the information I've read, an independent assessor checks progress at a set number of cases in the group. From there, they can compare the number of cases in those individuals given the placebo vs. the vaccine. It seems they are actually reaching the goals earlier than expected because the spread of the coronavirus has been so widespread, and they are already over halfway through the 164 total cases targeted for final review.kshama2001 wrote: »@kimny72 and others following vaccine research closely - how do they get that 90%? Are they exposing the test subjects? That seems unethical, but if they are not, how would they know the subjects didn't get Covid because they simply were not exposed to it?
https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/09/covid-19-vaccine-from-pfizer-and-biontech-is-strongly-effective-early-data-from-large-trial-indicate/
...The companies said an early analysis of the results showed that individuals who received two injections of the vaccine three weeks apart experienced more than 90% fewer cases of symptomatic Covid-19 than those who received a placebo.
Once there are enough numbers, they decide it's an effect, not random chance. Statistics. (It's too long since I did any advanced stats, so I'm literally incapable of explaining the details, but it's a standard protocol.)
I don't know enough about this study to know the control/treated matching protocols (how detailed), but the answer is still statistics.
There are some challenge studies (where people are intentionally exposed) but I don't personally know whether Pfizer did any. It's not unethical to expose test subjects who sign up for the study with full knowledge (informed consent) that they are going to be intentionally exposed to the disease. Volunteers are solicited, and brave, generous people sign up for it, in the hope of speeding vaccine availability . . . if the vaccine they're helping test pans out.
Sources:
https://www.vox.com/21556380/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-optimism-skepticism
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/11/09/vaccine-efficacy-data6 -
kshama2001 wrote: »@kimny72 and others following vaccine research closely - how do they get that 90%? Are they exposing the test subjects? That seems unethical, but if they are not, how would they know the subjects didn't get Covid because they simply were not exposed to it?
https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/09/covid-19-vaccine-from-pfizer-and-biontech-is-strongly-effective-early-data-from-large-trial-indicate/
...The companies said an early analysis of the results showed that individuals who received two injections of the vaccine three weeks apart experienced more than 90% fewer cases of symptomatic Covid-19 than those who received a placebo.
Once there are enough numbers, they decide it's an effect, not random chance. Statistics. (It's too long since I did any advanced stats, so I'm literally incapable of explaining the details, but it's a standard protocol.)
I don't know enough about this study to know the control/treated matching protocols (how detailed), but the answer is still statistics.
There are some challenge studies (where people are intentionally exposed) but I don't personally know whether Pfizer did any. It's not unethical to expose test subjects who sign up for the study with full knowledge (informed consent) that they are going to be intentionally exposed to the disease. Volunteers are solicited, and brave, generous people sign up for it, in the hope of speeding vaccine availability . . . if the vaccine they're helping test pans out.
I don't think this you meant to imply the volunteers' effort isn't worth it if the vaccine they're helping test doesn't pan out, but just want to clarify that even if that particular vaccine doesn't pan out, the courage and generosity of volunteers still helps to speed vaccine availability, because researchers and testing infrastructure can be reallocated to a new vaccine candidate more quickly than would be possible if testing had to wait for sufficient data under non-challenge conditions == assuming the choice is between a challenge test and a test in a population without significant community spread.
Right now I would think there are plenty of spots in the U.S. and some other parts of the world with enough community spread not to have to do a challenge test, but I guess one of the problems is that community prevalence bounces up and down with the adoption and abandonment of masking and distancing and capacity practices, maybe it's hard to pick a place to recruit test participants.3 -
So I'm a veteran (but please don't thank me for my service.) Every year I look forward to seeing the list of freebies that businesses are offering and usually get a free meal somewhere. Where I currently live, there are hardly any national chain restaurants near me, but the ones that are are only offering the discount for dine-in only. WTF? I've always gotten take out in the past. I haven't eaten in a restaurant for 10 months and have no intention of eating in one any time soon.
Even Dunkin Donuts says "in store only." I'm sure if I went to the drive through they'd give me my free donut but I find the insistence on making me come inside the store from every place I've checked very disconcerting. (I'm also sure local chains would let me get takeout but there aren't many close enough to bother and now I'm annoyed.)
https://news.dunkindonuts.com/news/veterans-day-2020
https://www.blogs.va.gov/VAntage/80347/veterans-day-2020-discounts/18 -
kshama2001 wrote: »@kimny72 and others following vaccine research closely - how do they get that 90%? Are they exposing the test subjects? That seems unethical, but if they are not, how would they know the subjects didn't get Covid because they simply were not exposed to it?
https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/09/covid-19-vaccine-from-pfizer-and-biontech-is-strongly-effective-early-data-from-large-trial-indicate/
...The companies said an early analysis of the results showed that individuals who received two injections of the vaccine three weeks apart experienced more than 90% fewer cases of symptomatic Covid-19 than those who received a placebo.
The last podcast I listened to dropped before the Pfizer news so I'm anxious to hear what they have to say about it. But I'd suspect there's some tried and true statistical extrapolation going on to arrive at that 90% figure. I think the most important thing though is they are starting to see proof that they understand the virus and are able to target it effectively, both with medications and now with vaccines.
A downside of the Pfizer vaccine is it must be kept significantly cold, which will be a shipping challenge and might limit vaccination locations. But it's a proof of concept that suggests all the other vaccines are most likely on the right track as well and we might end up with several good vaccines by next summer making it easier to get more people some kind of protection.4 -
kshama2001 wrote: »So I'm a veteran (but please don't thank me for my service.) Every year I look forward to seeing the list of freebies that businesses are offering and usually get a free meal somewhere. Where I currently live, there are hardly any national chain restaurants near me, but the ones that are are only offering the discount for dine-in only. WTF? I've always gotten take out in the past. I haven't eaten in a restaurant for 10 months and have no intention of eating in one any time soon.
Even Dunkin Donuts says "in store only." I'm sure if I went to the drive through they'd give me my free donut but I find the insistence on making me come inside the store from every place I've checked very disconcerting. (I'm also sure local chains would let me get takeout but there aren't many close enough to bother and now I'm annoyed.)
https://news.dunkindonuts.com/news/veterans-day-2020
https://www.blogs.va.gov/VAntage/80347/veterans-day-2020-discounts/
That does seem crazy, especially for Dunkin' Donuts -- last time I was in there, just a couple of weeks ago, they still weren't letting you sit inside.
But I wonder if the "in-store" proviso should be read with the following sentence about it not being available on the app. I can imagine the part of the company responsible for the Veterans Day offer not realizing in time that mobile app use has escalated during the past year, and nobody has put a free-donut feature into the app -- or even that they don't want to, since mobile orders are often picked up by delivery people, or a third-party (not the veteran).
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »@kimny72 and others following vaccine research closely - how do they get that 90%? Are they exposing the test subjects? That seems unethical, but if they are not, how would they know the subjects didn't get Covid because they simply were not exposed to it?
https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/09/covid-19-vaccine-from-pfizer-and-biontech-is-strongly-effective-early-data-from-large-trial-indicate/
...The companies said an early analysis of the results showed that individuals who received two injections of the vaccine three weeks apart experienced more than 90% fewer cases of symptomatic Covid-19 than those who received a placebo.
Once there are enough numbers, they decide it's an effect, not random chance. Statistics. (It's too long since I did any advanced stats, so I'm literally incapable of explaining the details, but it's a standard protocol.)
I don't know enough about this study to know the control/treated matching protocols (how detailed), but the answer is still statistics.
There are some challenge studies (where people are intentionally exposed) but I don't personally know whether Pfizer did any. It's not unethical to expose test subjects who sign up for the study with full knowledge (informed consent) that they are going to be intentionally exposed to the disease. Volunteers are solicited, and brave, generous people sign up for it, in the hope of speeding vaccine availability . . . if the vaccine they're helping test pans out.
I don't think this you meant to imply the volunteers' effort isn't worth it if the vaccine they're helping test doesn't pan out, but just want to clarify that even if that particular vaccine doesn't pan out, the courage and generosity of volunteers still helps to speed vaccine availability, because researchers and testing infrastructure can be reallocated to a new vaccine candidate more quickly than would be possible if testing had to wait for sufficient data under non-challenge conditions == assuming the choice is between a challenge test and a test in a population without significant community spread.
Right now I would think there are plenty of spots in the U.S. and some other parts of the world with enough community spread not to have to do a challenge test, but I guess one of the problems is that community prevalence bounces up and down with the adoption and abandonment of masking and distancing and capacity practices, maybe it's hard to pick a place to recruit test participants.
Yes, poorly written. I meant that the volunteers sign up in the hope of speeding availability (i.e., they put themselves at higher risk, via intentional exposure, in the hope that a challenge test will produce faster results than a normal community-spread test (administer vaccine, tell everyone to play it safe with exposure, and see who gets Covid anyway). They do speed overall progress even if their particular trial vaccine doesn't work, but I expect their hope is that it *will* work and speed delivery of that specific working vaccine to the rest of the population.
Thanks for clarifying my thought.4 -
Even if a vaccine is available for most of us soonish and there's enough for everyone (unlikely) there's no way to know how long it will last is there? Maybe i'm missing something but the long term viability and long term effects are unable to be determined since it's hardly been long enough to really get any data.
Seeing as the flu is constantly mutating and we have to vaccinate against it yearly i'm not holding my breath that any vaccine will have lasting, long term viability and I don't think we should hang our hats on it.
I do think we should open up/stay open - those who are high risk should isolate, people should wear masks (though i'm not convinced that they really work as advertised, it's an easy enough thing to do), and general precautions but we have to get back to living. This isn't sustainable from a mental health or an economic standpoint.
We need to get flu vaccine every year because there are different flu viruses out there every year, and full immunity to all of them isn't permanent.
It is quite possible that a covid-19 vaccine will be annual along with the flu shot, or might be one you need to get a booster every so often. That could make eliminating the virus difficult if people won't participate. But this country has managed to eradicate or make very rare all kinds of ugly viruses that used to just be a tragic fact of life, so I can't imagine why we can't do it with this one.
If we'd handled this better, it wouldn't have been a continuous struggle. We could've had everyone masked, and only keep closed businesses that can't accommodate distancing, and the govt could've provided relief to those businesses. Lots of places in this country ARE open, and their hospitals are being over run. I see other countries where they were able to open up quite a bit, and only needed temp shut downs usually because people got complacent.
Unfortunately, hundreds of thousands of people dying, thousands more going into medical debt after recovering, and the large % of the US population who would be high risk trying to isolate themselves would also tank the economy. IMHO the only way to recover the economy at this point is to defeat the virus. It's not only elderly people who get very sick or die (not that I think that's not a tragedy too), we've lost over 1300 US health care workers to this thing already, and as the numbers climb again, that is tragically sure to continue. Not to mention all the essential workers who have been sacrificed to this. I doubt just giving up and lifting restrictions would be the economic jolt some think it will.9 -
baconslave wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Pfizer just announced that their vaccine is testing at 90% effective. That would be fantastic.
Also, BTW, Pfizer did not partake in Operation Warp Speed because they didn't want to obligate themselves to what taking public funds would mean. They did this pretty much on their own without help. Just in case you hear certain parties/people taking claim that "they alone" solved Coronavirus, that would be 100% false.
In addition they will do the distribution themselves because they have suppliers already lined-up. They know how to do it, and I think that they don't trust the ability of the government to keep the vaccine as such low temperatures as it is needed.
Word of caution: Pfizer just run what is called an interim efficacy analysis. They are still continuing with the study since not all participants have completed the second shot and the f/up vigilance phase. The company still needs to do the interim safety analysis (due toward the end of November), before they can apply for an FDA expedite approval. If everything is good.
We got good news from the company but please people don't count your chickens until all the eggs have hatched. Disappointments are hard to swallow.
Right.
And it's very important to remember that they are saying they'll have enough vaccine for only 25 million people. The CDC has said that health care workers are first in line. Then the elderly. "Widespread" vaccine availability for everyone won't be until next year. Masking and distancing will remain our reality for the rest of this year and most of next. Even then everyone won't get the vaccine at once, many require 2 doses, and coverage of the populace won't be 100% b/c sadly many won't take any vaccine no matter what.
We should all go forward knowing this will be over, but we still have quite a way to go. That's what is.
Regardless of vaccine status, we are locked into this path right now crafted by consequences we've courted for 8 months. There will be suffering. Even if everyone started following guidelines right this moment, we would still have a rough month and a half ahead. A vaccine isn't a point-n-click solution either. And I hold out zero hopes that we'll get much better mask/distancing compliance at this point.
There is a light!!! But the tunnel is still long.
Sorry to be a downer, but like Mike said, we've had enough disappointment. Let's be real and not hurt ourselves more than the wounds we're already accruing here. I do hope at some point soon the leadership of this country, whomever that ends up being, will have this talk with the American people. IMO, we'd do better to frame this as a "war time" effort.
I think it's such a shame it wasn't framed as a "war on the virus" right from the beginning! Wrap the effort in the flag, appeal to everyone's patriotism. I think it would have been such a different trajectory. I doubt a new point of view in the new year can completely fix how people see the pandemic, but hopefully it will help.
And yeah, we all have to brace ourselves for the next 2 or 3 months 9 -
Even if a vaccine is available for most of us soonish and there's enough for everyone (unlikely) there's no way to know how long it will last is there? Maybe i'm missing something but the long term viability and long term effects are unable to be determined since it's hardly been long enough to really get any data.
Seeing as the flu is constantly mutating and we have to vaccinate against it yearly i'm not holding my breath that any vaccine will have lasting, long term viability and I don't think we should hang our hats on it.
I do think we should open up/stay open - those who are high risk should isolate, people should wear masks (though i'm not convinced that they really work as advertised, it's an easy enough thing to do), and general precautions but we have to get back to living. This isn't sustainable from a mental health or an economic standpoint.
We need to get flu vaccine every year because there are different flu viruses out there every year, and full immunity to all of them isn't permanent.
It is quite possible that a covid-19 vaccine will be annual along with the flu shot, or might be one you need to get a booster every so often. That could make eliminating the virus difficult if people won't participate. But this country has managed to eradicate or make very rare all kinds of ugly viruses that used to just be a tragic fact of life, so I can't imagine why we can't do it with this one.
If we'd handled this better, it wouldn't have been a continuous struggle. We could've had everyone masked, and only keep closed businesses that can't accommodate distancing, and the govt could've provided relief to those businesses. Lots of places in this country ARE open, and their hospitals are being over run. I see other countries where they were able to open up quite a bit, and only needed temp shut downs usually because people got complacent.
Unfortunately, hundreds of thousands of people dying, thousands more going into medical debt after recovering, and the large % of the US population who would be high risk trying to isolate themselves would also tank the economy. IMHO the only way to recover the economy at this point is to defeat the virus. It's not only elderly people who get very sick or die (not that I think that's not a tragedy too), we've lost over 1300 US health care workers to this thing already, and as the numbers climb again, that is tragically sure to continue. Not to mention all the essential workers who have been sacrificed to this. I doubt just giving up and lifting restrictions would be the economic jolt some think it will.
My comment is that here, in Europe, things are very bad again. I'm in Italy and just frustrated. We did Lockdown last spring, masking, and the government was behind everything---and still, we've got hospitals overwhelmed, the death rate rising, cases skyrocketing, the economy tanked, and now another Lockdown in sight. Unless you can keep up stringent measures constantly and for a long time, you'll lose anyway. It's just depressing. In a large country, it's hard to defeat this. It doesn't seem to matter what you do. I know a handfull of countries have managed, but they're constantly trying to stamp out any new infection that sneaks in. I just don't think it's possible world-wide. Sigh.9 -
kshama2001 wrote: »So I'm a veteran (but please don't thank me for my service.) Every year I look forward to seeing the list of freebies that businesses are offering and usually get a free meal somewhere. Where I currently live, there are hardly any national chain restaurants near me, but the ones that are are only offering the discount for dine-in only. WTF? I've always gotten take out in the past. I haven't eaten in a restaurant for 10 months and have no intention of eating in one any time soon.
Even Dunkin Donuts says "in store only." I'm sure if I went to the drive through they'd give me my free donut but I find the insistence on making me come inside the store from every place I've checked very disconcerting. (I'm also sure local chains would let me get takeout but there aren't many close enough to bother and now I'm annoyed.)
https://news.dunkindonuts.com/news/veterans-day-2020
https://www.blogs.va.gov/VAntage/80347/veterans-day-2020-discounts/
If they really are in-restaurant only and aren't just wording it badly, how ridiculous. You should try the takeout just to see what they say (plus isn't DD a MA staple?). Sorry, couldn't resist!
I'm with you that I'm not going in a restaurant any time soon, although I've tried to use takeout to support local places, and been buying a lot with pickup from my neighborhood stores (most are currently open but limited the # of people allowed within). I recently did a pickup order from a spice place and the number within were below the posted (small) limit, but the whole area (the shopping/social area of Lincoln Square) was lots of youngish adults and their kids being maskless and drinking coffee and hanging out in close proximity to each other and with zero concern about distancing from anyone else, so I think the being outside is totally fine thing might be being abused in urban areas. I'm sympathetic to the view that getting back to normal is important, and the weather here has been unseasonally great for a while until tonight, but currently cases are exploding here.4 -
kshama2001 wrote: »So I'm a veteran (but please don't thank me for my service.) Every year I look forward to seeing the list of freebies that businesses are offering and usually get a free meal somewhere. Where I currently live, there are hardly any national chain restaurants near me, but the ones that are are only offering the discount for dine-in only. WTF? I've always gotten take out in the past. I haven't eaten in a restaurant for 10 months and have no intention of eating in one any time soon.
Even Dunkin Donuts says "in store only." I'm sure if I went to the drive through they'd give me my free donut but I find the insistence on making me come inside the store from every place I've checked very disconcerting. (I'm also sure local chains would let me get takeout but there aren't many close enough to bother and now I'm annoyed.)
https://news.dunkindonuts.com/news/veterans-day-2020
https://www.blogs.va.gov/VAntage/80347/veterans-day-2020-discounts/
If they really are in-restaurant only and aren't just wording it badly, how ridiculous. You should try the takeout just to see what they say (plus isn't DD a MA staple?). Sorry, couldn't resist!
I'm with you that I'm not going in a restaurant any time soon, although I've tried to use takeout to support local places, and been buying a lot with pickup from my neighborhood stores (most are currently open but limited the # of people allowed within). I recently did a pickup order from a spice place and the number within were below the posted (small) limit, but the whole area (the shopping/social area of Lincoln Square) was lots of youngish adults and their kids being maskless and drinking coffee and hanging out in close proximity to each other and with zero concern about distancing from anyone else, so I think the being outside is totally fine thing might be being abused in urban areas. I'm sympathetic to the view that getting back to normal is important, and the weather here has been unseasonally great for a while until tonight, but currently cases are exploding here.
Yes that does not make sense! I would call the restaurants and ask. I think they likely say that because they need you to come in to verify you are a vetran or else everyone would be ordering free food for pickup pretending they are a vetran.6
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