Coronavirus prep
Replies
-
As I said in an earlier post, I'm still considering what I think about the US government's shortening of quarantine/isolation times.
As I've listened to non-US-government experts speak about it, I'm wondering if there's an unspoken element here.
(Trigger warning, to some, maybe . . . cynicism ahead: )
We've seen people on this thread express the sentiment that anyone in the US who wants a vaccination can get one, for free, so that those who don't want one need to stop holding up the vaccinated people from getting on with things just to protect the unvaccinated-by-choice. (I'm not saying I agree with that: I'm saying I've heard it expressed.)
If the transmission risk is truly substantially lower after the 5 days post symptom onset, I wonder if that kind of "the unvaccinated are on their own now" thought might be somewhere in the fog at the back of this shorter isolation recommendation.
Yes, I know: There's risk even post-vaccination to the immune compromised, those with co-morbidities, very young children not able to be vaccinated; even mild cases can produce terrible consequences for some subgroups; long Covid remains a risk; etc. I'm still not saying I think the change is the right decision.
I'm just wondering whether, perhaps without anyone in or outside government thinking/saying it explicitly, this frustration with precautions that are now significantly protecting the unvaccinated is part of the picture.
I'm not saying we're there yet, but we're certainly approaching the future point where the risks of Covid infection/consequences are much more similar to the flu than they were at first . . . but only to the vaccinated. As we approach that point (someday), things like hospital/health care capacity and overall economic robustness will begin to be larger fractions of the "greatest good for greatest number" picture, concern for the unvaccinated for their own sake maybe a smaller fraction.
Yes, that's cold and hard. Keep in mind, this post is mostly wondering/speculating about implicit biases, thought processes, motivations . . . I'm not expressing personal opinions about what ought to happen, or saying that anyone is necessarily explicitly thinking in these cynical terms. We're all frustrated, impatient . . . including government decision-makers, who are (believe it or not) humans, disciplined though they may be about striving to keep that out of their official decision-making.
Interesting thought. If true, it worsens problem of unvaccinated people hogging hospital resources and making quality care harder to get for cancer patients and the like.3 -
We've seen people on this thread express the sentiment that anyone in the US who wants a vaccination can get one, for free, so that those who don't want one need to stop holding up the vaccinated people from getting on with things just to protect the unvaccinated-by-choice. (I'm not saying I agree with that: I'm saying I've heard it expressed.)
Well. Realistically we're protecting our health care resources from getting overtaken by the unvaccinated-by-choice.5 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Anyone do the math on the half billion test kits the US government is going to send out "free" It's less than 2 per person.
Publicity stunt, sort of like using a piece of used bubble gun to fix a leak in the Hoover Dam IMO.
They aren't just going to mail them out to all US citizens...you'll have to go to a website to request them. I'm not sure how many you'll be able to request at a time, but a considerable percentage of the population is not going to request any. So, maybe there will be more for people who want them.
I'm not saying it's adequate, and I'm not saying it's NOT a publicity stunt, but you may be able to get more than 2 per person. I haven't seen details yet on how many requests you can make.5 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Anyone do the math on the half billion test kits the US government is going to send out "free" It's less than 2 per person.
Publicity stunt, sort of like using a piece of used bubble gun to fix a leak in the Hoover Dam IMO.
They aren't just going to mail them out to all US citizens...you'll have to go to a website to request them. I'm not sure how many you'll be able to request at a time, but a considerable percentage of the population is not going to request any. So, maybe there will be more for people who want them.
I'm not saying it's adequate, and I'm not saying it's NOT a publicity stunt, but you may be able to get more than 2 per person. I haven't seen details yet on how many requests you can make.
Understand one has to request. Still half a billion sounds like a big number. When you break to down to tests per eligible person it's a small number, i.e., publicity stunt.3 -
We've seen people on this thread express the sentiment that anyone in the US who wants a vaccination can get one, for free, so that those who don't want one need to stop holding up the vaccinated people from getting on with things just to protect the unvaccinated-by-choice. (I'm not saying I agree with that: I'm saying I've heard it expressed.)
Well. Realistically we're protecting our health care resources from getting overtaken by the unvaccinated-by-choice.
Unfortunately, I have to agree. At this point I don’t give a squat about unvaccinated-by-choice. Instead I do care about vaccinated people with bad covid luck, people with other health issues that need hospital care, and those who are unvaccinated against their own will (allergies and other medical reasons).
Here in Finland we had a somewhat functioning system of ”covid pass”, a document you could download from your health records if you have either two vaccines, proof of a covid diagnosis within last 6 months, or a recent negative test. The pass was an alternative to restaurant and event restrictions, so places were able to stay open if they required the pass at the door. The pass is temporarily halted now due to the omicron wave precisely because it allowed non-immunized (vax or virus itself) to roam free in these places and getting sick. I’m honestly pissed off that it’s even possible to get the pass with a fresh negative test and, to add insult to injury, get the negative results from public health resources for free if you just lie to the online bot that books test appointments. I think the option of getting a pass with the test result should be reserved to those medically unable to get vaccinated. Everyone can (annoyingly) freely choose whether they want the vaccine or not, but that choice should have consequences. Now those who are responsible and have taken the vaccine have to pay the price of protecting those who refuse to protect themselves.9 -
We've seen people on this thread express the sentiment that anyone in the US who wants a vaccination can get one, for free, so that those who don't want one need to stop holding up the vaccinated people from getting on with things just to protect the unvaccinated-by-choice. (I'm not saying I agree with that: I'm saying I've heard it expressed.)
Well. Realistically we're protecting our health care resources from getting overtaken by the unvaccinated-by-choice.
Of course.
As I said, I was not agreeing with that idea, let alone advocating it, just saying it had been expressed here and elsewhere. (To be explicit: I don't believe that we're collectively at the point where vaccinated people can get on with it, and let unvaccinated people flounder on their own. That would be a bad plan for all of us. Further - exasperated though it makes me - I don't think it's currently morally justifiable to let the unvaccinated sink or swim on their own even if it didn't hurt the rest of us - though I didn't say that in the PP.)
Right now, the health care system (in the US among other places) is overburdened to the point where that in itself is a threat to everyone (regardless of whoever is taking up all those beds, even though in practice it's currently predominantly the unvaccinated). That was part of the point of the later paragraph that you didn't quote, that said that down the road, we'd still have to worry about overburdening the health care system, even if/when the disease risk to the vaccinated is more similar to risks associated with the flu.
If I believe or advocate something, I would say so. When I say "some people have said this", that's not a stealth way of expressing my opinion, though I guess some people may cloak controversial opinions in that way.3 -
With the NHS is working at 94% apx bed occupancy and covid tests results coming in higher than at the peek last wave when bed occupancy was 89%. Protecting healthcare everywhere is the only thing to do. I think I heard this morning, again the temporary Nightingale wards are being put up at some major hospitals to cover any need for extra beds! I do wonder where the staffing is going to come from when so many of our care staff who have worked tirelessly over the best part of two years are now falling ill to this latest variant because its so easily transmitted.
Yesterday I heard 1000 persons were admitted to hospitals in the UK, might just be England now we have devolved governments, sorry for this uncertainty. If the admissions to hospitals for any reason remain at this level the issues of bed blocking and all other complicating factors, as well as the finite numbers of staffing and beds will be exceeded at some stage.
Apparently, England is relying on the boosters to protect us unlike other countries. Tests, lateral and the other are in short supply here too so the pcr's are said to be being kept for essential staff, its "Another fine mess, we've got into". Please can we have joined up international thinking.
2 -
We've seen people on this thread express the sentiment that anyone in the US who wants a vaccination can get one, for free, so that those who don't want one need to stop holding up the vaccinated people from getting on with things just to protect the unvaccinated-by-choice. (I'm not saying I agree with that: I'm saying I've heard it expressed.)
Well. Realistically we're protecting our health care resources from getting overtaken by the unvaccinated-by-choice.
This remains frustrating to me... I honestly think these people should go to the back of the line for care. When a hospital is >90% capacity in Covid wing, they stop taking unvaccinated patients and keep the space for vaccinated patients. Similar to how smokers go to the back of the line for lung transplants and alcoholics for livers.7 -
My feeling is it’s a lead the horse to water thing, which I believe is what the government spokeswoman said in an interview. They know selfish people aren’t willing to isolate for ten days, so they are offering a compromise and hoping that isn’t too much to ask. No one honestly thinks five days is safe, they just think it’s safer than zero days.As I said in an earlier post, I'm still considering what I think about the US government's shortening of quarantine/isolation times.
As I've listened to non-US-government experts speak about it, I'm wondering if there's an unspoken element here.
(Trigger warning, to some, maybe . . . cynicism ahead: )
We've seen people on this thread express the sentiment that anyone in the US who wants a vaccination can get one, for free, so that those who don't want one need to stop holding up the vaccinated people from getting on with things just to protect the unvaccinated-by-choice. (I'm not saying I agree with that: I'm saying I've heard it expressed.)
If the transmission risk is truly substantially lower after the 5 days post symptom onset, I wonder if that kind of "the unvaccinated are on their own now" thought might be somewhere in the fog at the back of this shorter isolation recommendation.
Yes, I know: There's risk even post-vaccination to the immune compromised, those with co-morbidities, very young children not able to be vaccinated; even mild cases can produce terrible consequences for some subgroups; long Covid remains a risk; etc. I'm still not saying I think the change is the right decision.
I'm just wondering whether, perhaps without anyone in or outside government thinking/saying it explicitly, this frustration with precautions that are now significantly protecting the unvaccinated is part of the picture.
I'm not saying we're there yet, but we're certainly approaching the future point where the risks of Covid infection/consequences are much more similar to the flu than they were at first . . . but only to the vaccinated. As we approach that point (someday), things like hospital/health care capacity and overall economic robustness will begin to be larger fractions of the "greatest good for greatest number" picture, concern for the unvaccinated for their own sake maybe a smaller fraction.
Yes, that's cold and hard. Keep in mind, this post is mostly wondering/speculating about implicit biases, thought processes, motivations . . . I'm not expressing personal opinions about what ought to happen, or saying that anyone is necessarily explicitly thinking in these cynical terms. We're all frustrated, impatient . . . including government decision-makers, who are (believe it or not) humans, disciplined though they may be about striving to keep that out of their official decision-making.
As someone with an 84 year old diabetic mother who is also a nitwit sometimes - for example she tried to go out to eat in a crowded restaurant just yesterday and was only stopped by them being closed for the holidays - I have gotten really angry lately at people who fail to take all the precautions available to them. My mother could be killed because people who should know better (my mother’s caretaker should have known better, but we’re having a discussion about that) are being willful. I want all the willful people locked in a box and shipped somewhere far away.
I have also recently waited in an ER for three hours without being even looked at, for a possible heart attack. Eventually left after seven hours, no room, the most minimal standard of care - two minute portable ekg, which wasn’t viewed by an actual doctor until two days later. The staff were simply past it. I could die because people are being stupid. I don’t care at this point what it takes to get them to stop. I want them to stop. The rest of us who are trying are tired of people not trying.
16 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »We've seen people on this thread express the sentiment that anyone in the US who wants a vaccination can get one, for free, so that those who don't want one need to stop holding up the vaccinated people from getting on with things just to protect the unvaccinated-by-choice. (I'm not saying I agree with that: I'm saying I've heard it expressed.)
Well. Realistically we're protecting our health care resources from getting overtaken by the unvaccinated-by-choice.
This remains frustrating to me... I honestly think these people should go to the back of the line for care. When a hospital is >90% capacity in Covid wing, they stop taking unvaccinated patients and keep the space for vaccinated patients. Similar to how smokers go to the back of the line for lung transplants and alcoholics for livers.
I'm at that point too. You made a choice with regard to your health, you were told what the potential consequences could be, and this is the result of your decision.11 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »We've seen people on this thread express the sentiment that anyone in the US who wants a vaccination can get one, for free, so that those who don't want one need to stop holding up the vaccinated people from getting on with things just to protect the unvaccinated-by-choice. (I'm not saying I agree with that: I'm saying I've heard it expressed.)
Well. Realistically we're protecting our health care resources from getting overtaken by the unvaccinated-by-choice.
This remains frustrating to me... I honestly think these people should go to the back of the line for care. When a hospital is >90% capacity in Covid wing, they stop taking unvaccinated patients and keep the space for vaccinated patients. Similar to how smokers go to the back of the line for lung transplants and alcoholics for livers.
I'm at that point too. You made a choice with regard to your health, you were told what the potential consequences could be, and this is the result of your decision.
Same here. If you want to make that personal choice, than own up to the costs and responsibility of that choice. Pay extra for your health insurance or have any COVID-19 related costs not covered by insurance. Instead of someone dying from something treatable like appendicitis due to lack of available health care resources, I am more than fine with having the willingly unvaccinated removed and pushed out the door to make room for someone who needs care due to no fault of their own. I am so *kitten* over it.10 -
So, my brother tested positive the day after Christmas. He had mild symptoms that are now gone. His employer is ordering him back to work today, 5 days later, citing the new CDC guidelines.
They are not asking him to test first, but he's going to on his own. If he's still testing positive, he may have a case to make to his employer to stay home a few more days.
He's a chef, and they are anticipating a big New Year's crowd at his restaurant. He'll be cooking food for hundreds of people.
Is this reallyyy a good idea?5 -
There are no tests to be had here, so testing everyone before they go back to work isn't feasible. Our situation at the moment:
- No PCR tests except for those who fit a narrow criteria, they are telling us to rapid test (except there are no rapid tests available unless you want to pay $100's of dollars for them online, or line up for 4 hours for a chance of the FEW free ones they are handing out)
- Isolate for 5 days if you are a close contact of a confirmed case (except there is no way to confirm a case)
- Get a booster shot (except you can't get an appointment for weeks)
- Avoid people and crowds to avoid spreading the virus, but also go ahead and catch the virus it is inevitable and no big deal.
- Since we can't get tests just assume that if we have symptoms we have Covid.
I mean it seems kind of fatalistic, but also this is hopefully sliding us in to the endemic phase. At this rate of transmission and low severity it's just not feasible to treat every case like it's the plague like we did at the beginning.
Some of our family are getting over Covid - daughter and her bf are fine, husband (61) is fine but still feeling the effects in his energy levels, still very fatigued. Somehow despite being exposed to all of them and not isolating I never got it.
My husband and I both had that really bad cold in September, tested negative for Covid. That illness was much worse than what we experienced with Covid. We are all double or triple vaxx'd. I THINK were probably exposed the day after we got our third shot, but no way to know for sure.
We missed having our family Christmas due to Covid, we are doing a restaurant dinner and getting together (8 of us) this evening for New Years. I have a few rapid test left that I bought online a few weeks ago in anticipation, but honestly they aren't all they are cracked up to be and aren't super effective for asymptomatic cases anyway.9 -
There are no tests to be had here, so testing everyone before they go back to work isn't feasible. Our situation at the moment:
- No PCR tests except for those who fit a narrow criteria, they are telling us to rapid test (except there are no rapid tests available unless you want to pay $100's of dollars for them online, or line up for 4 hours for a chance of the FEW free ones they are handing out)
- Isolate for 5 days if you are a close contact of a confirmed case (except there is no way to confirm a case)
- Get a booster shot (except you can't get an appointment for weeks)
- Avoid people and crowds to avoid spreading the virus, but also go ahead and catch the virus it is inevitable and no big deal.
- Since we can't get tests just assume that if we have symptoms we have Covid.
And long term care home residents (plus likely other high risk individuals) getting a FOURTH shot 84 days after their third.
And mandating third shots for LTC staff, probably other health care workers as well. And probably the rest of us eventually... until we all get fourth shots too, then those will become mandatory... AND WHEN WILL IT END?2 -
I’m a healthcare worker and I am asking that everyone tell all their friends and family to stop coming to the ER for minor illnesses and for testing. Make an appointment for a test and if you can’t get one, just stay home.
The hospitals are getting overwhelmed and the wait times are insane because of all the frivolous ER visits for tests in people with minor illness or no symptoms. Nurses and doctors are getting burnt out with the insanity of it all.
Unless you’re very sick, stay home!!20 -
I’m a healthcare worker and I am asking that everyone tell all their friends and family to stop coming to the ER for minor illnesses and for testing. Make an appointment for a test and if you can’t get one, just stay home.
The hospitals are getting overwhelmed and the wait times are insane because of all the frivolous ER visits for tests in people with minor illness or no symptoms. Nurses and doctors are getting burnt out with the insanity of it all.
Unless you’re very sick, stay home!!
Luckily here testing was not the responsibility of hospitals, it was done by the public health unit. I think there was a test site on the hospital campus but separate from the main facility. Hospitals do test their own patients, but don't perform general public testing.
Historically there has been a lot of rather frivolous use of ER services, due in part to the large number of people who have no family doc. That dropped way down during Covid. I had to go to ER twice since March 2020 and it was eerily quiet, not the same experience at all.
I'm sorry things are so crazy for you and your colleagues. Hopefully things get better soon.3 -
Here in Australia they are now making it mandatory for health care workers to have a booster shot within 2 weeks of eligibility - currently 4 months after your 2nd one
Boosters are available for all people over 18.
I guess it is possible a few healthcare workers are under 18 (it means all staff in health care facilities, not just medical/ nursing staff - so cleaners, clerical staff etc) but rest of us all need booster shot now too.
I am getting mine on 5th Jan.3 -
snowflake954 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Can't remember what I have share (and not) or when. Anyhow, today, the 27th is the first morning with zero sore throat since Dec 11th. Have had 3 negative COVID tests and of the 8 family members that got this cold, everyone who has tested has tested negative (4 out of 8, three of which were the sickest including me). This cold was the cold from H*ll and finished off with an ear infection (husband - eye infection, daughter - pneumonia). With that in mind, my parents almost 85 and 87 were on the fence about the family meal on xmas day. Then, my sister found out 11 year old daughter may have been exposed in school on Monday. Parents backed out. The rest of us went forward with us home testing on Xmas morning before all meeting up.
Flash forward. My children and families were coming early to open presents in the morning. Get 9 am call. Daughter, et all, were in a 10 car crash due to freezing rain on an untreated winding steep hill. Thankfully, all the humans were fine, unlike the car that did its job by being destroyed while protecting the contents. My DH takes off in the car to help. The family was traveling in their pajamas for the fun morning with my <2 grandson and it is 30 degrees and freezing rain. Some lovely family took them in while the police dealt with the crash. They were given a warm home and hot tea. I am so thankful to this family for opening their home on xmas morning to provide aid to strangers, especially in these crazy times. With my husband's help, 3 hours later they were able to join us, 10 of us in total all tested for COVID.
Back to the topic of COVID celebrations. Our neighbor in our townhouse cluster celebrated xmas eve, but all in the garage (remember it is +/- 30 degrees out). Nice and fiancee in California are COVID positive. Nephew in the anti-vaxer part of the family has an enlarged heart, potentially from the J&J vaccine. Hubby is trying to fly back to Florida next weekend to see his mom. I hope their is still a flight and he does not get sick....... I have lots of home test kits. I am making sure I have easy access.
Oh, I should share that I went shopping for spare kits (had already used the kit I already had in home and was negative) during the stretch were I had zero voice from the cold from h*ll. Picture the face of the Walgreens cashier as I pointed to my throat, unable to make a sound, and held up a note to her asking for "BinaxNow COVID test kit". I was sold two kits very quickly.
Stay healthy all. I need a better 2022. I am ready for 2021 to be over!
I'm in Italy and also got this cold at the beginning of Dec. It lasted 2 weeks and I have never coughed so much (day and night) in my life. I was cold for several days and walked around in a blanket--when I wasn't in bed. So tired. The phelgm just kept coming and it was a pudding texture. A bad headache with my head all stuffed up. I thought it would never end. I went through a whole roll of Scottex with my runny nose. I don't wish this on anyone. My doctor kept saying "It's not COVID, just a cold". It was HELL.
Were you tested for COVID? Unless you are tested I don't know how your dr. could say it is "just a cold."
Did you read @SModa61's post 2 pages ago? She said everyone with this "cold" got tested many times and the COVID test was always negative. My doctor is my BIL. He's worked to exhaustion during the epidemic and diagnosed hundreds of cases of COVID. He has also had to sign numerous death certificates. I trusted him to know if I had COVID or not.
I have another friend (no she and I have not been in proximity too each other). Same exact cold from hell. She has also taken a number of home COVID tests. All negative. To backtrack to my family's case, daughter did negative home test, negative PCR test, negative flu test, and negative strep test.
That said, my annual physical is Jan 22. I may be asking for an antibody test cause this bug its just crazy. Voice is still slightly deficient and slight scratchiness kicks in at times on my throat (at 20 days). Daughter also is still scratchy at times and daughter is 10 days ahead of me........4 -
SummerSkier wrote: »I had a cold like that before covid also. No fever. My sinus headaches and congestion in my head was awful. I had to sleep sitting up. But I have heard that the quick tests may not be as effective in catching the O strain. More likely false negatives than the other way around.
Our workplace is going to do onsite testing starting in January. It looks like this is to comply with the OSHA mandate for unvaccinated folks to be tested weekly. Not sure what test they are going to have or how it all plays out with HIPPA either. I was really happy to hear that most of our employees (90%) at one point are vaccinated altho I think requiring the booster is just around the corner?
At this point if it's been over 8 months since you were vaccinated seems like you might also need to be tested weekly.
I heard that same information on the news about the home testing with the Omicron. It does make me wonder about my "cold", but daughter did also get PCRed and was negative so maybe we are correct that this is just that cold that you don't want. I joked (yes, a big joke as I am not that stupid) that I might prefer COVID.4 -
paperpudding wrote: »Here in Australia they are now making it mandatory for health care workers to have a booster shot within 2 weeks of eligibility - currently 4 months after your 2nd one
Boosters are available for all people over 18.
I guess it is possible a few healthcare workers are under 18 (it means all staff in health care facilities, not just medical/ nursing staff - so cleaners, clerical staff etc) but rest of us all need booster shot now too.
I am getting mine on 5th Jan.
Me too!2
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 901 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.2K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions