Of refeeds and diet breaks

JaysFan82 wrote: »

I don't think I could mentally handle a diet break at this point.

You doing OK?

@HelenWater

On the four weeks you are "off," are you eating at maintenance or over maintenance? I think if I were to eat at, say, a 250 calorie daily deficit for a month and a 250 calorie surplus for the next, I'd maintain right where I am and never lose another pound beyond that. The scale would look like a sine wave with periodicity of two months for a complete cycle. If eating at maintenance for the off weeks, that just would mean it takes longer to get to goal, and that's really not a bad thing. Getting practice eating at maintenance will serve you well once you do reach goal, because that's what you'll have to do, on average, for the indefinite future.

HelenWater wrote: »

The off month is maintenance. The theory is that when you reach your goal you have also shifted your set point and so won’t really need to count calories. It’s very slow, but having lost and gained 30kg I’m ready to try a different approach.

If you're able to maintain without keeping track of calories, you're ahead of me. My experience is, unfortunately, I have to pay attention in maintenance. Maybe after another five years I'll be able to stop. Kind of risky. I'd still weigh daily. I will say I have changed HOW I track calories. I am much more comfortable with some kinds of estimates. An example is a recipe I made back in February of 2022 or 2021 for black bean soup. I make a similar soup frequently, and it's never the exact same ingredient list. For that soup, "one serving" is a gram, so I still weigh the soup, but each batch has different calories per gram. I make a few kinds of bean salads (dried beans, cooked, mixed with more vegetables than beans, and it's really good). I made one recipe for each the first time, and I figured how many "servings" it made. I use the same size bowl for a serving, and while each batch is probably different, I don't redo the recipe. It's working.

I'm glad to read that your "off" months are maintenance and not "free for all." That could definitely slow things down. You will learn really good habits with your routine of alternating months of maintaining and months of losing. It's wise to take the long view and go slow. Yay!

BCLadybug888 wrote: »

HelenWater wrote: »

The off month is maintenance. The theory is that when you reach your goal you have also shifted your set point and so won’t really need to count calories. It’s very slow, but having lost and gained 30kg I’m ready to try a different approach.

I had not heard of this eating plan until you mentioned it, thanks for that!

There are some very tenacious souls that somehow hang onto their goal weight in maintenance by grit and determination, eating low calorie (like 1000-1200) and keeping up their activity. I cannot see that being my successful reality.

The role of metabolism reduction and the rise of ghrelin (and other hormonal changes) in failure to maintain losses is disheartening and despite vows to the contrary I have yoyo'd my way to a pretty significant weight and definitely need to solve this puzzle once and for all. I am taking diet breaks, maintenance periods and s l o w pace very seriously this time, but it is hard to stay positive sometimes with progress. I am not going to regain fully ever again. I may have little hiccups on way down, and it may take years to lose all I need to (100 lbs) but this health pursuit must be FOR LIFE.

I'm going to risk a slight digression to this thread.

I think the information in this thread is solid and useful: Diet breaks and refeeds can be a helpful strategy, for a variety of reasons described very well here.

At the same time, I think that the idea of "metabolic damage" (reduced TDEE long term) has been somewhat oversold by the blogosphere (often with the goal of selling us "remedies" or "hacks", but sometimes just because catastrophes make better click-bait).

As a partial counter-balance, I'd very much recommend also reading this very good thread - specifically, read the first few posts on that thread from the OP himself.

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss/p1

For those who have a history of yo-yo dieting, especially certain common subtypes of that, some of the reduction of calorie needs is not just from that effect, but also from loss of lean mass (extreme diets, no strength exercise, sub-ideal nutrition) and gradually decreased habits of activity (in daily life as well as exercise, triggered as weight increases and fitness decreases simply because movement becomes harder and less pleasant). That muscle loss and decreased activity can be countered explicitly, as part of increasing our final maintenance calorie needs.

Apologies for the digression.

I freaking love refeeds. Smashing one today after a week of feeling worn out during my workouts