Imagining Our Bodies as a Relational Construct: You and Me
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Ok. Great. Back on track. I was learing about preservatives this morning during my beautiful walk (far too early for a Monday if I am honest) and realized that I am consuming far too much of sodium benzoate as I have been using diet drinks and snack food forever. Even my celebrated pickles and sour crout foods contain this chemical and I discovered that I may be promoting growth of the wrong type of bacteria. My body would not be able to tell me this. I suppose it might be like living in a neighbourhood with lots of crime and debotchery and getting absorbed in the dysfunction which starts to feel "normal". So...for the first time in decades, I am going to read the ingredients of the stuff I consume and start to take some ownership over the intake side of the equation. I admire my body for having to deal with whatever I put in it. I have to give it what it needs to calibrate, adjust and adapt to whatever demands are made. If I am promoting the growth of uhealthy bacteria for example, how can my body create the right balance? I don't want this to become an obsession but I kind of think it's important. Would love to hear your thoughts?2
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Ok. Great. Back on track. I was learing about preservatives this morning during my beautiful walk (far too early for a Monday if I am honest) and realized that I am consuming far too much of sodium benzoate as I have been using diet drinks and snack food forever. Even my celebrated pickles and sour crout foods contain this chemical and I discovered that I may be promoting growth of the wrong type of bacteria. My body would not be able to tell me this. I suppose it might be like living in a neighbourhood with lots of crime and debotchery and getting absorbed in the dysfunction which starts to feel "normal". So...for the first time in decades, I am going to read the ingredients of the stuff I consume and start to take some ownership over the intake side of the equation. I admire my body for having to deal with whatever I put in it. I have to give it what it needs to calibrate, adjust and adapt to whatever demands are made. If I am promoting the growth of uhealthy bacteria for example, how can my body create the right balance? I don't want this to become an obsession but I kind of think it's important. Would love to hear your thoughts?
If you enjoy sauerkraut, and can safely consume that level of salt, you might consider looking for raw (unpasteurized) sauerkraut. If available, it will be sold from the refrigerator case. It's a traditional probiotic food, with live cultures. (They're different live cultures from those found in live-culture yogurt, but similar concept.) Probiotic foods with live cultures may be health-promoting. The research is young, but a diverse gut microbiome does seem to correlate with positive health markers. Less clear at this point is which microbes are most useful, which do what, etc.
Often, commercial live-culture raw sauerkraut here is relatively expensive vs. canned. It is easy and relatively inexpensive to make sauerkraut at home. I'd recommend looking up recipes/instructions, but the gist is slicing cabbage very thin, layering it with salt, pressing to help juices release, then letting it ferment. I've made a lot of it in the past (but now lazily buy commercial). One can ferment it at room temperature (tastiest IMO) following good instructions for hygiene, but it's also possible to make a less sour version in the refrigerator.
Commercial refrigerated pickles may also lack the preservatives that you concern you, though this varies by brand. Vinegar brine pickles are easy to make, too - from cucumbers or lots of other veggies. These can be made in the refrigerator. Fermented pickles are a bit more work, but doable.
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Ok. Great. Back on track. I was learing about preservatives this morning during my beautiful walk (far too early for a Monday if I am honest) and realized that I am consuming far too much of sodium benzoate as I have been using diet drinks and snack food forever. Even my celebrated pickles and sour crout foods contain this chemical and I discovered that I may be promoting growth of the wrong type of bacteria. My body would not be able to tell me this. I suppose it might be like living in a neighbourhood with lots of crime and debotchery and getting absorbed in the dysfunction which starts to feel "normal". So...for the first time in decades, I am going to read the ingredients of the stuff I consume and start to take some ownership over the intake side of the equation. I admire my body for having to deal with whatever I put in it. I have to give it what it needs to calibrate, adjust and adapt to whatever demands are made. If I am promoting the growth of uhealthy bacteria for example, how can my body create the right balance? I don't want this to become an obsession but I kind of think it's important. Would love to hear your thoughts?
I'm not up on sodium benzoate, but I do look for pickles without artificial color, and buy this brand at my supermarket:
https://www.woodstock-foods.com/the-goods/product.organic-kosher-baby-dill-pickles-042563013653.html
ORGANIC CUCUMBERS, WATER, ORGANIC VINEGAR, SALT, CONTAINS LESS THAN 2% OF DEHYDRATED ORGANIC GARLIC, CALCIUM CHLORIDE, ORGANIC NATURAL FLAVORS ( CONTAINS MUSTARD), ORGANIC GUM ARABIC, ORGANIC TURMERIC EXTRACT (COLOR).
When I used to shop at Whole Foods regularly I would get store brand pickles, which are now available on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/365-Everyday-Value-Organic-Sandwich/dp/B074H6M2VP/
Organic Cucumbers, Water, Organic Distilled White Vinegar, Salt, Organic Dehydrated Garlic, Calcium Chloride, Natural Flavors, Organic Turmeric (Color).
Huh. The ingredients are identical. I wonder if Woodstock private labels pickles for Whole Foods.0 -
Yeah, my news feed is filled with dire consequences for just about everything I'm putting in my mouth. Almost all come down to dose. Here's a couple of links for you to peruse for more information on sodium benzoate. I won't be giving up diet pepsi anytime soon, although I'm not consuming much either. Cheers
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9003278/
https://nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84964-61 -
Thanks for the links N*thin. I think we all have to pick and choose our battles and diet drinks have assisted me in the past in my quest for changing appetitie etc so I hear you.
I had a chat with me ol" body during my stroll this morning and I asked him how he is enjoying the change of diet and the world of Keto. He grumbled that it is just "f*&^%ing" confusing and when will I start being more consistent and less extreme. He went on to say that this isn't our first rodeo and the up/down yoyo eating patterns just have to stop. Rather than be defensive and tell him how hard I am trying and he should be grateful I am (yet again) trying to get it right...I listened actively and learned that there is no panacea and this has to be a legitimate and long term gig without shortcuts and unsustainable restrictions. Wow!! I wasn't ready for a lecture from the organic me. But....it really hit home and makes sense. So...take away point. Moderation, balance, realistic goals and honest recording of what I am filling him up with so that I can track OUR progress and make changes as necessary. Maybe this is the begining of a wonderful relationship.. (Thank you Humphrey Bogart). Your thoughts?
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Thanks for the links N*thin. I think we all have to pick and choose our battles and diet drinks have assisted me in the past in my quest for changing appetitie etc so I hear you.
I had a chat with me ol" body during my stroll this morning and I asked him how he is enjoying the change of diet and the world of Keto. He grumbled that it is just "f*&^%ing" confusing and when will I start being more consistent and less extreme. He went on to say that this isn't our first rodeo and the up/down yoyo eating patterns just have to stop. Rather than be defensive and tell him how hard I am trying and he should be grateful I am (yet again) trying to get it right...I listened actively and learned that there is no panacea and this has to be a legitimate and long term gig without shortcuts and unsustainable restrictions. Wow!! I wasn't ready for a lecture from the organic me. But....it really hit home and makes sense. So...take away point. Moderation, balance, realistic goals and honest recording of what I am filling him up with so that I can track OUR progress and make changes as necessary. Maybe this is the begining of a wonderful relationship.. (Thank you Humphrey Bogart). Your thoughts?
I suggest you spend some time researching ketogenic diets because there are different interventions based on a persons metabolic state. Keto is first and foremost a therapeutic diet and most interpretations for a keto diet seem to focus on the original ketogenic diet that is basically prescribed for people with neurological disorders which is basically referred to as a 4:1ratio where for every 4 gram of fat there is 1 gram of protein and some small amount of carbs which works out to 90% fat which is far too restrictive and can't be maintained long-term which is where most of the criticism comes from and justifiably so. Like I said it's ideal for people with epilepsy and other neurological disorders but the keto diet can be formulated to be a 3:1, 2:1 and 1:1 and the 1:1 was the keto diet I was doing. I'm low carb and very low carb but I'm not necessarily worried about my saturation levels of ketones in my blood because this particular intervention has me totally satiated and have been low carb for over a decade while maintaining my weight without counting calories and my blood markers are very good. Basically what I'm saying is make sure you understand the ketogenic diet more, just in case your restricting nutrients to the detriment of your goals and possibly your health. I would also suggest you work with a dietitian that understands fully the ketogenic diet because most haven't a clue. I like your Humphry Bogart reference but it was "this is the beginning of a beautiful relationship" same same but different lol.1 -
Really terrific comments, insights and facts. That is what I love about this platform and many of the individuals who have not just learned but internalized the pieces of information that merge with our goals, expectations and choices. Thanks Neanderthin and well done with your success. Seems like you have the right attitude and the best information to keep your body in great order. A model for all of us neophytes who think we know what we are doing but tend to "dabble" in the literature but don't truly know the deeper more salient findings and explanations. I don't have Epilepsy so maybe Ketosis is working for me? JUST KIDDING.
My body let me take him for a 5 k walk this morning and we even did some stairs. Thanks champ. You carried me through a bit of fatigue and some moments of anxiety but we did it. A big day with lots of clients so it feels good to start the day with a healthy beginning. Things are definitely changing.2 -
Struggling today although I pushed through and completed the 5k walk (with some stairs). I felt somewhat dispondent with regards to food and found it difficult to eat anything at all. I am sure my issues are not common so please forgive today's submission. I wonder if my mind is fighting against the new "regime" of exercise and amended food selection and consumption.My body is not part of this struggle as it is responding well.Walking is becoming easier and far more enjoyable and a 7kgs (ish) loss is extremely appreciated and welcomed. So, my body is doing its best given how nuts I have been over the years with eating the worst foods;often and being relegated to storage of fat rather than the burning of fat. So, I turned my body into a refridgerator and now I am trying to flip the switch and turn it into a furnace. Ok. I am going to make a nice dinner and a glass of sparkling mineral water and change the direction of my recalicitrant mind. I don't get to eat whatever I want when I want. This truth requires a transition from a child-like orientation to food and a disdain (fear?) of deprivation. I can learn to enjoy and value appropriate food selection and preparation and retrain my brain over the next few months. It is possible to develop new and healthier neurolgical schemas (patterns) and exert a new degree of positive control and management of eating and drinking. This is no longer a whim or a passing fashionable preference. It has to be real, authentic and sustainable. So, me and this aging body have to be patient with one another and we will create a bit of metabolic "magic" and transform ourselves to the true design that is "underneath" all of the layers of fat and will leave us far healthier and more consistent with effective performance both physically and mentally. This is my hope and prayer. Thanks for reading my ramblings.
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Feeling much better this morning. A close friend asked me if I might be setting my expectations too high. Is there a danger with regards to being too strict and creating something unsustainable. I was defensive at first but now I’m sitting with the discomfort of the challenge that I may be demanding quick results and not developing long term habits. I think I need to be strict or rigid for awhile but I will think more about a longer term plan. If we are honest with ourselves most of us have been doing this for many years. I wonder why?1
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@shel80kgIf I am promoting the growth of uhealthy bacteria for example, how can my body create the right balance?
Something that has helped me- I did an elimination diet and slowly reincorporated dairy, gluten, sugar etc .. I found that after many years I actually had sensitivities that I was just living with for years.
Once I started taking care of my gut more .. my skin looked better, my sleep was better.
Sometimes I fall off the wagon and have some of those items because they taste good in the moment.. I pay for it afterwards. 🤢
I’ve become interested in reading as much as I can about the gut connection to health. I’ve started taking probiotics and including a lot more fermented foods. (I saw another suggestion for that above!) it’s made a lot of difference.
Good luck holistically healing. 🌱2 -
Feeling much better this morning. A close friend asked me if I might be setting my expectations too high. Is there a danger with regards to being too strict and creating something unsustainable. I was defensive at first but now I’m sitting with the discomfort of the challenge that I may be demanding quick results and not developing long term habits. I think I need to be strict or rigid for awhile but I will think more about a longer term plan. If we are honest with ourselves most of us have been doing this for many years. I wonder why?
Yes there is. I honestly think it may be one of the most common causes for failing in the long term, based on threads I've read here in the 8+ years since I joined MFP.
Fast loss via restrictive eating and/or extreme exercise can be a trap. Those are more likely to cause deprivation-triggered over-eating eventually, possible breaks in progress, and even possibly giving up altogether earlier rather than later. (For someone who has a meaningful total amount of weight to lose, even fast loss takes a long time. Sustainability matters.)
Extreme tactics also contribute nearly zero to learning new permanent habits for staying at a healthy weight once one reaches goal. That's a forever endeavor.
A longer term plan is really important. Sooner or later, to maintain weight, a person has to settle into a relatively easy, relatively practical eating routine, one that can continue almost on autopilot when other parts of life get complicated . . . because they will.
That's complemented by an approach to activity (exercise and otherwise) that permits good life balance. "Good life balance" is enough time and energy for job, family, social life, non-exercise hobbies, or anything else important to the person.
I'd argue strongly that one needs to start finding those habits sometime during weight loss . . . maybe not right away, but well in advance of actually reaching goal weight. One can start experimenting to find those new sustainable tactics while there's still the calorie deficit in the picture to cushion any oopsies.
Not every tactic experimented with will be sustainable. Once one finds some reasonable ones, it takes time to groove them in as near-autopilot habits.
Arriving at goal weight without most of that dialed in is a recipe for "going back to normal" and regaining.
I don't argue that everyone has to do it exactly like I did, but I decided up front that I wasn't going to do anything to lose weight that I wasn't willing to continue forever to stay at a healthy weight, except for the sensibly moderate calorie deficit. I'm happy with how that turned out. (I'd been overweight to obese for around 30 years. I've been at a healthy weight for 7+ now.)
Sometimes I wonder if we have a subconscious feeling that fatness is a sin, so we have to suffer during weight loss to expiate it. It just isn't so.
I like this line of thought you're having about sustainability.1 -
Feeling much better this morning. A close friend asked me if I might be setting my expectations too high. Is there a danger with regards to being too strict and creating something unsustainable. I was defensive at first but now I’m sitting with the discomfort of the challenge that I may be demanding quick results and not developing long term habits. I think I need to be strict or rigid for awhile but I will think more about a longer term plan. If we are honest with ourselves most of us have been doing this for many years. I wonder why?
Don't practice what you don't want to become. It's funny sometimes that what we need the most is always where you least want to look, so be resilient by exposing yourself to things that make you feel uncomfortable, that seems to work for me. Friedrich Nietzsche, that German guy that thinks a lot once brilliantly said, “He whose life has a why can bear almost any how.”0 -
I have to be honest. I am obsessed with Brendan Fraser's depiction of Charlie in "The Whale". He weaponized his body after his partner died (quite possibly suicide) and becomes an eating machine. Yet, he shaves every day, keeps his place relatively neat and tide, surrounds himself with books and memories, and commits to helping his daughter. A beautiful man, clearly, but lost in his grief, shame and sad life and does not reach out for help. He accepts the support from his friend Liz but she has a type of codependent relationship with Charlie as she needs him as much as he needs her. Watch his face as he consumes his food. He cannot get it in his body quickly enough and has no ability (or is completely disinterested) in managing his food intake ; as he is truly inviting death. What I learn from this is that the relationship with our bodies determines our relationship with food. We don't care what happens to us and the impacts of crappy food....we eat anything and everything...sooner or later. Don't deal with our psychological issues and traumas. Well, folk, they deal with us. Now, many (most) of you here probably just have a few KG to shed here and there and would like to reduce your shape by a few inches. But....in the world of eating disorders which I am pretty sure I am a card caring member, the paradigm is dramatically different and requires a very careful, thought out plan with support and quite likely professional assistance including therapy, nutritional guidance, personal fitness support etc. As I write this, I just became aware that I should not think my thoughts and ideas are neither conventional or helpful to a majority of you as you can close the fridge/cupboard/drawers of chocolates, chips etc. and carry on with the day. But there are a few of us who really really struggle with our negative relationsips with oour body and by proxy food and it is quite a challenge. Just thought I would share this. Having said what I have been contemplating, I am very motivated and I am going to achieve my goals this time. I just hope I can do it more kindly and systematically than Charile (and me in the past). Thanks for reading this.5
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It was good to be able to work through what was bugging me the other day. I think I turned a corner. It's about moderation not deprivation and just working through our own individual issues. This platform is good for that. I had a "normal" eating day yesterday. 3 meals of really nice healthy food and it felt great. I guess we have to go through whatever is true and real for us and perhaps we can never really know what is going on for us until we take the risk and allow ourselves to be vulnerable. With great respect, most of the threads and conversations I have read seem a bit surfacy and repetative. "Why can't lose weght"?, "Why am I stuck at a certain weight"? "What can I eat that doesn't make me fat"? "Is it all about the calories....."? And on and on and on. Somehow I think answering these questions becomes an act of futility as the "askers" haven't really admitted that the weight management problems go much deeper than whether to understand the most basic concepts of nutrition and metabolic processes. And drilling down to the minutia of these areas of science aren't likely to improve or alter or more established patterns and habits. I think its more about the relationshp we have with ourselves and our body...hence this thread. Of course we need to understand the prinicples of good eating and healthy life style. But....we need to care about ourselves enough to make these prinicples a reality, a promise, a commitment. Like in any healthy relationship. We have to be honest, respectful and kind and commuicate honestly and effictively with ourselves. I wonder what your thoughts are about this?
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Why was it hard to read?
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Why was it hard to read?
It's like a wall of words. Paragraphs are much easier to read and are more inviting. Your punctuation is fine but sometimes many posts leave a lot to be desired and compounded with a wall of words, makes it almost impossible to read and a lot of people will just give the wall of words a pass. I didn't, I found it ok, but many won't bother. imo5 -
neanderthin wrote: »Paragraphs are much easier to read and are more inviting.
Agreed. With word wrap and good line length settings big paragraph can work. In these forums with their variable presentations, smaller paragraphs serve to make it more approachable.
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Thank you for the feedback.
Do you think I am verbose?
Perhaps less is better
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Thank you for the feedback.
Do you think I am verbose?
Perhaps less is better
A couple of things, no opinion on your verbosity, and a bit of typography is just a kindness to your readers. Though of course you a free to do your thing.
Misquoting Voltaire "I'm sorry for writing such a long letter, I didn't have time to make it shorter."0
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