Muscle gaing

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  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 1,639 Member
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    sollyn23l2 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Usually best to get rid of the fat and then build the muscle.

    Disagree. Why wait to lift weights and build muscle for a year + while losing fat?
    lifting is a given during fat loss however trying to add muscle is generally left till later with muscle maintenance being the goal during fat loss.
    Trying to add muscle simultaneously usually backfires with little to no muscle gain and sub par fatloss


    If the OP has 100 pounds to lose, I can pretty much bet they have not done any lifting. They will gain muscle from the lifting they start doing.
    Not necessarily. Much depends on the training program

    Of course training program matters but if going from nothing to even a bit will help.
    lol, I see people, usually the highly overweight ones come in, go to a machine, pump out A few light reps, get up, walk around and leave. Building muscle, even a little, requires a decent amount of effort and just “going to the gym” is no guarantee of building anything.

    Nah, I've seen plenty of skinny guys do that too. And guys that are blasting test assuming that'll make them get thick. Basically all groups do it.
    yep you’re right, hence the reason people just give up with no real success. You gotta want it when it comes to building muscle.

  • sollyn23l2
    sollyn23l2 Posts: 1,618 Member
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    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    lol, I see people, usually the highly overweight ones come in, go to a machine, pump out A few light reps, get up, walk around and leave. Building muscle, even a little, requires a decent amount of effort and just “going to the gym” is no guarantee of building anything.
    Nah, I've seen plenty of skinny guys do that too. And guys that are blasting test assuming that'll make them get thick. Basically all groups do it.
    yep you’re right, hence the reason people just give up with no real success. You gotta want it when it comes to building muscle.

    Some people say they avoid the gym because they worry that fitter people there will judge them. I usually tell them that gym people are too busy with their own workout to be judge-y that way.

    Maybe I should stop claiming that.

    I wasn't judging anybody. I clearly said everybody messes up equally badly at the gym, meaning we all do. Yup. Even me. I suck at the gym. I feel very attacked and judged right now.
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,388 Member
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    sollyn23l2 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    lol, I see people, usually the highly overweight ones come in, go to a machine, pump out A few light reps, get up, walk around and leave. Building muscle, even a little, requires a decent amount of effort and just “going to the gym” is no guarantee of building anything.
    Nah, I've seen plenty of skinny guys do that too. And guys that are blasting test assuming that'll make them get thick. Basically all groups do it.
    yep you’re right, hence the reason people just give up with no real success. You gotta want it when it comes to building muscle.

    Some people say they avoid the gym because they worry that fitter people there will judge them. I usually tell them that gym people are too busy with their own workout to be judge-y that way.

    Maybe I should stop claiming that.

    I wasn't judging anybody. I clearly said everybody messes up equally badly at the gym, meaning we all do. Yup. Even me. I suck at the gym. I feel very attacked and judged right now.

    Yes you do. You suck at the gym. And I am not judging at all, simply validating your words.

    But.... yeah I agree. Most of us suck at the gym at least sometimes, so if the judgement of/by others doesn't apply, don't let it get you down.
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,388 Member
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    nossmf wrote: »
    Where's my popcorn to keep watching this debate that's not really a debate since both sides are saying almost the same thing? 🍿

    Popcorn in excess levels might cause a calorie surplus and result in gains, I heard that on the internet. But only for those that work extra hard in the gym, because I heard newbie gains aren't a thing.


    Jokes aside, it seems to be a semantics debate. Being we have no idea of the total deficit of the OP, the gym routine, past history, etc.... nobody knows if they can or will make gains or not.

    But we DO know that regardless, a lifting program should at a minimum keep any losses down, and possibly result in gains. Rather than have arguments over which is correct, maybe we should just be making the point that there is little lose but time in adding lifting while still in a calorie deficit.
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,519 Member
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    To put it simply.

    The optimal way to lose 100 pounds is a large calorie deficit. Say 1-2 pounds per week.

    The optimal way to build muscle is a calorie surplus.

    Nobody is saying you can't get some of the benefits of both at the same time, but if you think you can get all the benefits of both at the same time, then I have a bridge to sell you.
  • springlering62
    springlering62 Posts: 7,473 Member
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    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    To put it simply.

    The optimal way to lose 100 pounds is a large calorie deficit. Say 1-2 pounds per week.

    The optimal way to build muscle is a calorie surplus.

    Nobody is saying you can't get some of the benefits of both at the same time, but if you think you can get all the benefits of both at the same time, then I have a bridge to sell you.

    I did both. I guess I’m buying that bridge. Maybe I’ll charge ya tolls.

    I think y'all are thinking in terms of big buff showy bulging muscle gain.

    Maybe we ought to start by asking these OPs what they envision as “muscle”.

    I didn’t then, don’t now, nor do I ever particularly want bulgy. “Shapely” limbs are just fine by me, although I think I can bust out a pretty decent flex.
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,519 Member
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    springlering62 wrote: »
    I did both. I guess I’m buying that bridge. Maybe I’ll charge ya tolls.

    I think y'all are thinking in terms of big buff showy bulging muscle gain.

    Maybe we ought to start by asking these OPs what they envision as “muscle”.

    I didn’t then, don’t now, nor do I ever particularly want bulgy. “Shapely” limbs are just fine by me, although I think I can bust out a pretty decent flex.
    Either you're a unicorn that defies physiological science, in which case you shouldn't be presenting that as a good path for OP, or...

    You didn't build as much muscle as you could have, had you been in a calorie surplus instead, and it sounds like you concede that to be true.
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 1,639 Member
    edited February 1
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    His response to me on another forum when I told him he wouldn't be successful without patience after several other posters tried to help him out but he just wanted to argue. It was followed up with a highly profane DM which I won't repeat.

    (Originally Posted by Tommy W. View Post)

    "Prepare to spin your wheels and make zero progress"


    What do you mean Prepare to spin your wheels and make zero progress dude i give you the whole time as much information i can and you give me a lazy answer i don't even know the meaning of it
    if you don't wanna help me or don't know how to help me then keep your mouth shut damn it.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,454 Member
    edited February 1
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    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    To put it simply.

    The optimal way to lose 100 pounds is a large calorie deficit. Say 1-2 pounds per week.

    The optimal way to build muscle is a calorie surplus.

    Nobody is saying you can't get some of the benefits of both at the same time, but if you think you can get all the benefits of both at the same time, then I have a bridge to sell you.

    There is 100 pounds worth of calorie surplus available. Why is that difficult to understand?

    Now the person should adjust intake to lose weight as well as increase calories burned. The most efficient time-benefit wise to burn calories is aerobic exercise. However, the person should also do resistance work and if they have the time can do extensive resistance work and sure build muscle are they are losing the weight.
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,519 Member
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    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    There is 100 pounds worth of calorie surplus available. Why is that difficult to understand?

    Now the person should adjust intake to lose weight as well as increase calories burned. The most efficient time-benefit wise to burn calories is aerobic exercise. However, the person should also do resistance work and if they have the time can do extensive resistance work and sure build muscle are they are losing the weight.
    Bodybuilders call their cycles bulking and cutting, i.e. the gaining of muscle, and the shedding of fat. They don't call their cycles "adding muscle" and "adding the same amount of muscle while losing fat". If the latter were a thing, the former would be pointless.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,652 Member
    edited February 1
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    The overwhelming answer for the overwhelming number of people who are starting with 100+lbs available to lose and are not in their 20s or and/or on steroids is zero muscle building if you also don't lose some weight.

    Because they are not in good enough physical condition right now before they've started losing the weight to actually hit the gym effectively.

    I sure as crap wasn't. Because had I been I probably would NOT have had 100+lbs available to lose

    So the original question is either a very edge case or barking up the wrong goal for your current circumstances tree.

    The physiological answer is that it is an energy availability question.

    The 100lbs of available fat provides favourable conditions of energy availability to be used for muscle building.

    10lbs of available fat doesn't.

    Yes, until the over abundance of fat reserves reduces and in the absence of an insane deficit and under the constraint of the person's ability to exercise there is no reason to wait or dither or to be trying to optimize the results before any effort has gone toward obtaining them.

    Create a 20% deficit and hit the gym with a good program, good supervision, and good form. Call in again after a few months to discuss further optimization

  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,454 Member
    edited February 1
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    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    There is 100 pounds worth of calorie surplus available. Why is that difficult to understand?

    Now the person should adjust intake to lose weight as well as increase calories burned. The most efficient time-benefit wise to burn calories is aerobic exercise. However, the person should also do resistance work and if they have the time can do extensive resistance work and sure build muscle are they are losing the weight.
    Bodybuilders call their cycles bulking and cutting, i.e. the gaining of muscle, and the shedding of fat. They don't call their cycles "adding muscle" and "adding the same amount of muscle while losing fat". If the latter were a thing, the former would be pointless.

    Bulking and cutting may be appropriate for for males in the 6%-20% bodyfat range (around 10-25% for females) and often on gear. Not something for most of the population. Someone with 100 pounds to lose is definitely not in that conversation.

    Again extra calories are needed to build muscle. Someone with 100 pounds to lose has the extra calories as stored fat. A bodybuilder in the 10% bodyfat range does not the extra calories stored as fat since they are approaching the minimal fat levels required for health. Hence they will need to eat in a calorie surplus. If they want, perhaps up to the 15-20% BF range, then cut.
  • zebasschick
    zebasschick Posts: 909 Member
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    after the first year of the pandemic, my legs were too weak for me to get off a chair without using my arms to push up. i had been riding my exercise bike at low resistance to work around injuries, and when i stopped going anywhere, i discovered walking had been my main weight-bearing (baring?) exercise.

    i lost 20 pounds in that year and during that same year i put enough muscle to get out of chairs, exercise by walking up and down stairs, and started using a treadmill at a 5% incline, none of which i could do a year before. i focus on protein first, and i eat small "meals" every 2 to 2 1/2 hours. i'm now eating at maintenance, and i continue to put on muscle - it's visible now. am i bulging with muscle? nope. but i'm much stronger and more able, and most of that was eating at a deficit.

    i'm not a doctor or a dietician, but my suggestion to the OP or anyone with this question - do start working out now. don't work out a your max capacity if you're eating at a deficit - make your workouts strenuous and intense but don't work out heavier than you can do 8 controlled reps at. because when eating at a deficit, you probably won't have the ability to recover as well. do eat enough protein. if possible, find a couple protein snacks that fit in your calorie budget.

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