Muscle gaing

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vyomorion
vyomorion Posts: 1 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
What is the best way to gain a lot of muscle while being fat?
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  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 1,639 Member
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    Usually best to get rid of the fat and then build the muscle.
  • mtaratoot
    mtaratoot Posts: 13,263 Member
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    sollyn23l2 wrote: »
    Lift heavy things and put them down.

    And then do it again and again and again. Then - "a gain." Be sure to get enough rest days too.

    A fat person with a lot of muscle will still be fat. If that's the goal, then success awaits. If the goal is also to lose fat, there's other approaches.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,652 Member
    edited January 29
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    Your muscles develop because you use them.

    Your energy balance and nutrients and general health either help or hinder the process.

    In general the more energy and building blocks you provide the more likely you are to achieve maximum gains.

    Your body is also more into pumping hormones when excess energy is present

    That said, an over fat person already has easy to use energy reserves and in the presence of sufficient need (i.e. muscles needing to develop because you use them) the over fat body will gladly pull from its internal energy reserves.

    This is less true of an already lean body.

    The end goals, however, are definitely relevant as it does not always pay to ignore the alternatives

    The development of a sumo wrestler or a shot putter or hammer thrower is probably different than the run of the mill "good for health" choices most of us should probably make
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,454 Member
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    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Usually best to get rid of the fat and then build the muscle.

    Disagree. Why wait to lift weights and build muscle for a year + while losing fat?
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,518 Member
    edited January 29
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    I think there's some conflating going on.

    OP has >100 pounds to lose. My typical rec for someone in that situation is focus on fat loss first. Yes, lift, but do so with the intention to maintain what you already have while doing large weight loss. That doesn't require a lot of volume. Maybe the person gets lucky with some noob muscle gains. But the focus should be fat loss, with a significant and sustainable calorie deficit. Keep protein high during this phase, close to 1g per pound of ideal bw.

    Cardio per hour burns more calories than lifting per hour, and frequent lifting with progressive overload, or HIIT cardio, can lead to systemic fatigue which will limit total exercise time. Given that someone with >100 pounds to lose likely has finite time and energy, imo better to focus on the cardio for now, especially zone 2 cardio, with lifting as the #2 priority. At least lift enough to maintain, and to get into the habit. With this much fat to lose, don't make muscle gain your focus, unless you want to compete in Strongman events.

    Once body fat gets lower and the person is no longer obese, that's when the conversation should start shifting to building muscle imo. At that time, shift the ratio of exercise more towards lifting if your goals include muscle building.
  • springlering62
    springlering62 Posts: 7,473 Member
    edited January 29
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    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Usually best to get rid of the fat and then build the muscle.

    Disagree. Why wait to lift weights and build muscle for a year + while losing fat?

    Thank you for this @Theoldguy1 I was just fixin to say that.

    I began lifting while losing, obese, and still lift now, at goal and in maintenance.

    I don’t lift particularly heavy weights. I started older and had never exercised before, but I’ve gotten good results. I’m not saying do five pound weights. If that’s where you need to start, fine. I did and built up. It’s the resistance that will tone and strengthen you. When those five pounds are no longer a challenge, you’ll reap very little benefit continuing to lift them. You’ll need to level up.

    At my old gym, which was an Olympic style gym, we had some larger women who did lift very heavy. They could do some enormous weights and were very muscular. I’d hesitate to call them “fat”. That was the look they liked and they doubled down on it. They could sure as hell do stuff I couldn’t, so bully for them.

    It depends on the look you wish to achieve, but getting started in the first place is the key thing.

    If you want to lose weight faster, muscle burns weight faster than fat. I feel like starting to lift early in my weight loss journey was a smart move, since I feel like it helped me lose faster, smarter, and see results along the way.

    I do a cardio weight class at my gym twice a week, and some of the ladies there have earned very respectable results, using weights in the 5-12 pound range. I typically use 12-25 pounds or higher, depending on the exercise, but I come directly to the class from the weight room so am pretty warmed up by then.

    Whatever you’re thinking, just get off your bum and do something. I started by simply walking and doing basic yoga classes. If you’d ever told me, obese, sedentary, and 56, that I’d enjoy lifting in the gym, I’d have laughed in your face. It’s the simple thrill of moving stuff and, once in a while, being able to lift more than the last time.
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 1,639 Member
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    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Usually best to get rid of the fat and then build the muscle.

    Disagree. Why wait to lift weights and build muscle for a year + while losing fat?
    lifting is a given during fat loss however trying to add muscle is generally left till later with muscle maintenance being the goal during fat loss.
    Trying to add muscle simultaneously usually backfires with little to no muscle gain and sub par fatloss


  • springlering62
    springlering62 Posts: 7,473 Member
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    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Usually best to get rid of the fat and then build the muscle.

    Disagree. Why wait to lift weights and build muscle for a year + while losing fat?
    lifting is a given during fat loss however trying to add muscle is generally left till later with muscle maintenance being the goal during fat loss.
    Trying to add muscle simultaneously usually backfires with little to no muscle gain and sub par fatloss


    Passionately disagree.

    Of course, I was starting from a literal zero. As I suspect OP is, too.

    I built a lot of muscle during the obese to normal BMI trip - and then lost it by having too low a goal.

    You’re not going to lose weight and still have static muscle if you’re working to build it during the downward process, and have a reasonable end goal in sight.
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,518 Member
    edited January 29
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    springlering62 wrote: »
    You’re not going to lose weight and still have static muscle if you’re working to build it during the downward process, and have a reasonable end goal in sight.
    I don't know what you mean there. Can you clarify?

    It's best to focus on one priority at a time. With 100+ pounds to lose, that priority should be fat loss. That will be best for overall health too. If the priority is building muscle that potentially means 3-5 lifting workouts, working hard, optimal nutrition, calorie surplus or at worst a small deficit, and all of that leaves little time and energy for additional cardio exercise, plus the journey to lose 100 pounds will be loooooong.

    Again, nobody is saying don't lift. There's a fundamental difference between building muscle and maintaining. The former requires 10-20 working sets per muscle group per week. Maintenance, 3-5 working sets is probably enough. That can mean 1-2 lifting workouts per week, instead of 3-5. Prioritizing fat loss means more time for cardio, and dieting for more fat loss, getting to a better health position sooner.
  • zebasschick
    zebasschick Posts: 909 Member
    edited January 29
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    I worked out while I was obese and in bad shape. When you start at that level, you can build some muscle even if eating it a deficit, but I stacked my deck by eating protein every couple of hours. Am I a bodybuilder like I used to be years ago? Not at all. But by the time I had lost a lot of weight, I was able to lift heavier than I had been able to when I started, and you can actually see some muscle development. Carrying a case of my favorite fizzy water in glass bottles used to take all of my strength, now it's no problem.
  • springlering62
    springlering62 Posts: 7,473 Member
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    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    springlering62 wrote: »
    You’re not going to lose weight and still have static muscle if you’re working to build it during the downward process, and have a reasonable end goal in sight.
    I don't know what you mean there. Can you clarify?

    It's best to focus on one priority at a time. With 100+ pounds to lose, that priority should be fat loss. That will be best for overall health too. If the priority is building muscle that potentially means 3-5 lifting workouts, working hard, optimal nutrition, calorie surplus or at worst a small deficit, and all of that leaves little time and energy for additional cardio exercise, plus the journey to lose 100 pounds will be loooooong.

    Again, nobody is saying don't lift. There's a fundamental difference between building muscle and maintaining. The former requires 10-20 working sets per muscle group per week. Maintenance, 3-5 working sets is probably enough. That can mean 1-2 lifting workouts per week, instead of 3-5. Prioritizing fat loss means more time for cardio, and dieting for more fat loss, getting to a better health position sooner.

    Sorry. Didn’t explain that well.

    If you’re starting from zero, as I did, you can’t help but gain muscle. I lost weight and built muscle at the same time.

    There’s no reason for them to be mutually exclusive, if done thoughtfully and with great instruction.

    I did a combination of cardio (running, walking, stationery bike, treadmill) and strength (weights, power yoga, Pilates).

    I sincerely believe adding the weights in as early as I did pushed me along a lot faster. I saw results in my body sooner ( begging permission to use the dreaded “toning” word here), thanks to the weights, which helped me achieve yoga goals I badly wanted, which elated me and created even more goals.

    I think focusing on one thing at a time is doing yourself a total disservice- but you’ve got to be willing to apply yourself to both.

    If you’re willing to put in the work logging, changing your dietary habits, and commit to exercising, too, I’d absolutely recommend starting weights as early as possible.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,454 Member
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    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Usually best to get rid of the fat and then build the muscle.

    Disagree. Why wait to lift weights and build muscle for a year + while losing fat?
    lifting is a given during fat loss however trying to add muscle is generally left till later with muscle maintenance being the goal during fat loss.
    Trying to add muscle simultaneously usually backfires with little to no muscle gain and sub par fatloss


    If the OP has 100 pounds to lose, I can pretty much bet they have not done any lifting. They will gain muscle from the lifting they start doing.
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 1,639 Member
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    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Usually best to get rid of the fat and then build the muscle.

    Disagree. Why wait to lift weights and build muscle for a year + while losing fat?
    lifting is a given during fat loss however trying to add muscle is generally left till later with muscle maintenance being the goal during fat loss.
    Trying to add muscle simultaneously usually backfires with little to no muscle gain and sub par fatloss


    If the OP has 100 pounds to lose, I can pretty much bet they have not done any lifting. They will gain muscle from the lifting they start doing.
    Not necessarily. Much depends on the training program
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,454 Member
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    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Usually best to get rid of the fat and then build the muscle.

    Disagree. Why wait to lift weights and build muscle for a year + while losing fat?
    lifting is a given during fat loss however trying to add muscle is generally left till later with muscle maintenance being the goal during fat loss.
    Trying to add muscle simultaneously usually backfires with little to no muscle gain and sub par fatloss


    If the OP has 100 pounds to lose, I can pretty much bet they have not done any lifting. They will gain muscle from the lifting they start doing.
    Not necessarily. Much depends on the training program

    Of course training program matters but if going from nothing to even a bit will help.
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 1,639 Member
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    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Usually best to get rid of the fat and then build the muscle.

    Disagree. Why wait to lift weights and build muscle for a year + while losing fat?
    lifting is a given during fat loss however trying to add muscle is generally left till later with muscle maintenance being the goal during fat loss.
    Trying to add muscle simultaneously usually backfires with little to no muscle gain and sub par fatloss


    If the OP has 100 pounds to lose, I can pretty much bet they have not done any lifting. They will gain muscle from the lifting they start doing.
    Not necessarily. Much depends on the training program

    Of course training program matters but if going from nothing to even a bit will help.
    lol, I see people, usually the highly overweight ones come in, go to a machine, pump out A few light reps, get up, walk around and leave. Building muscle, even a little, requires a decent amount of effort and just “going to the gym” is no guarantee of building anything.

  • sollyn23l2
    sollyn23l2 Posts: 1,618 Member
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    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Usually best to get rid of the fat and then build the muscle.

    Disagree. Why wait to lift weights and build muscle for a year + while losing fat?
    lifting is a given during fat loss however trying to add muscle is generally left till later with muscle maintenance being the goal during fat loss.
    Trying to add muscle simultaneously usually backfires with little to no muscle gain and sub par fatloss


    If the OP has 100 pounds to lose, I can pretty much bet they have not done any lifting. They will gain muscle from the lifting they start doing.
    Not necessarily. Much depends on the training program

    Of course training program matters but if going from nothing to even a bit will help.
    lol, I see people, usually the highly overweight ones come in, go to a machine, pump out A few light reps, get up, walk around and leave. Building muscle, even a little, requires a decent amount of effort and just “going to the gym” is no guarantee of building anything.

    Nah, I've seen plenty of skinny guys do that too. And guys that are blasting test assuming that'll make them get thick. Basically all groups do it.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,454 Member
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    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    Usually best to get rid of the fat and then build the muscle.

    Disagree. Why wait to lift weights and build muscle for a year + while losing fat?
    lifting is a given during fat loss however trying to add muscle is generally left till later with muscle maintenance being the goal during fat loss.
    Trying to add muscle simultaneously usually backfires with little to no muscle gain and sub par fatloss


    If the OP has 100 pounds to lose, I can pretty much bet they have not done any lifting. They will gain muscle from the lifting they start doing.
    Not necessarily. Much depends on the training program

    Of course training program matters but if going from nothing to even a bit will help.
    lol, I see people, usually the highly overweight ones come in, go to a machine, pump out A few light reps, get up, walk around and leave. Building muscle, even a little, requires a decent amount of effort and just “going to the gym” is no guarantee of building anything.

    What you describe is the modus operandi in most commercial gyms, regardless of body type.

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