I'm confused weight lifting/cardio/muscle question...
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This is his very first post in that thread:Hi,
I was 271 lbs. and then I dwindled down to 175 lbs. with Layne Norton's help. I made top ten in a physique competition out of 215 competitors. I've been reverse dieting for what seems like forever, but it's only been about 3 months. I'm currently bouncing around between 175 to 180 and honing in on 177. However, I'm much leaner at 177 and larger at 177 than I ever was the last time I was 177.
I believe I'm currently consuming my TDEE because I'm getting leaner in some areas and getting stronger while maintaining weight - (thanks coach Norton).
And I actually look completely different at 177 compared to 175...
Oh...I forgot, ADD ME, I need friends... :bigsmile:0 -
As a newbie, I was able to lose a small amount of weight while gaining lean mass. I lost like 5 pounds in 10 weeks and gained a small amount of muscle (can't remember exactly how much right now - maybe 1-2lbs?). This is according to two fitness assessments done by my gym.0
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Amazing. Have you been eating at a calorie deficit all this time? You seem to have gain alot of muscle mass
yes. I'm still at a slight caloric deficit because when you compare my photos at a constant weight of 177-178 over the past 3 months of my reverse diet (which I have not uploaded yet) I look totally different from when I was dieting down and through 177-175 vs. now when I've hovering between 175 to 178. It's like my body morphed while staying at this weight.
Once I start my mass phase, however, my coach sees 1-2 lbs per month easy in this slow and controlled manner. So hopefully back up near 200 lbs in about a year from now. For height reference, I'm 5'8"...
I'm going to go with his actual pictures, logs and posts.
Words have meanings. If you're gaining weight then you are not in a deficit. Period.
Thermodynamics isn't just a good ideal. It's the law.
He gained muscle, lost fat all on a slight calorie deficit. If you don't believe him, go ahead and challenge him in his thread. I mean the pictures are right there.
You think he's miscalculating his nutrient and calorie inputs??? He's a bodybuilding competitor with a trainer that's telling him exactly what %s to eat.
Appeal to authority.Here's the thread. Let him know what you think. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/403233-lost-96lbs-and-made-top-10-in-physique-contest?page=6#posts-5810993
He's maintained muscle, and his loss of fat made him look bigger.
It's an optical illusion.
Case in point:
Now look very closely at the pictures. His lats are no wider in the second pic than they are in the first, they just look bigger because his waist is so much smaller and the loss of fat gave him more definition. Furthermore, the pose is slightly different, which can add to the visual effect (look closely at the position of his arms).
Also:I've implemented successful refeeds and it's worked ok during the dieting process. I would have 2 high carb days intersperse among 5 lower carb days (notice how I didn't say low carb... lower).
So he IS eating in a surplus on certain days, and a deficit on others. This is NOT the same as maintaining a caloric deficit full-time. It's basically a very short bulk/cut microcycle similar to Lyle's UD 2.0.0 -
I asked him specifically if he's been at a deficit the whole time. He's answer "yes".
And I'd think a competitive bodybuilder would know if he's gained muscle or not.
Are you going to say his biceps just "apper" to be larger? Especially since he specifically mentions targeting them?
If you claim he's been at a calorie surplus, point out where his increased carb intakes have put his over his slight deficit calorie limits. Or better yet, ask him specifically.
Perhaps he has? One thing is clear, he's gained muscle while losing weight and leaning out. His first cycle was 271 to about 175. 2nd cyle was bumping around 175 to 177lbs. He mentions specifically that he's bigger now at 177lbs than any other point in his life where he previously weighed 177lbs.
In addition, during the week, he has 2 high carb days while the rest are low carb. That implies that overall (ie... over a week or month, he's still at a deficit)0 -
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I asked him specifically if he's been at a deficit the whole time. He's answer "yes".
And I'd think a competitive bodybuilder would know if he's gained muscle or not.
Are you going to say his biceps just "apper" to be larger? Especially since he specifically mentions targeting them?
Competitive bodybuilders say alot of stupid ****.
And for the last time, the CLAIMS OF A SINGLE PERSON ON AN INTERNET FORUM ARE NOT EVIDENCE.
What a person believes, and what is actually happening are two different things.0 -
I asked him specifically if he's been at a deficit the whole time. He's answer "yes".
And I'd think a competitive bodybuilder would know if he's gained muscle or not.
Are you going to say his biceps just "apper" to be larger? Especially since he specifically mentions targeting them?
Competitive bodybuilders say alot of stupid ****.
And for the last time, the CLAIMS OF A SINGLE PERSON ON AN INTERNET FORUM ARE NOT EVIDENCE.
What a person believes, and what is actually happening are two different things.
Alot of them do. What makes you more knowlegble then him? Look at the results, look at his diet. Hell read his thread. Tthen go ahead and tell him he's info is stupid****0 -
It's practically impossible to build muscle on calorie deficit. To build muscle you would be adding weight. To add weight you need to be in calorie surplus.No no noooooo - you might not be building huge muscles right now - but trust me - if you keep on working hard and challenging yourself with the weights you lift you will be building muscle....and pushing up the size of the weights you lift week after week!!
Seeing definition isn't building muscle. It's losing body fat.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Sorry - dont agree - I was the most out of shape person with absolutely no strenght at all - I could not lift 3kg dumbells - now I am lifting 18kg's......There was no friggin muscles - and lots of fat - I have lost lots of fat yes - but I have also built muscle - which was not there to start with - and my trainer that has also been in the business for 15 years plus agrees with me - he has seen the progress we have made from day 1 to now.....0 -
BTW. He mentions Layne Norton. I assume this is him.
http://www.biolayne.com/Hello everyone and welcome to my site. My name is Layne Norton, I am a natural pro bodybuilder who just happens to also be interested in the science behind bodybuilding. I am currently working on my PhD at university of Illinois specializing in skeletal muscle protein metabolism. The purpose of this site is to provide information about bodybuilding and also to provide information about myself.0 -
The general consensus is that while on a calorie deficit, you can increase strength but not mass.
And I have heard from some who swear they lost fat and increased muscle mass which only leads to more confusion.
My experience is that one must choose which is most important.
Lower weight/body fat or higher weight/muscle mass.
I accept this and am working to lower body fat and weight, knowing I already lost so much muscle mass in route to losing over 60 lbs. At the end of my journey from 262 to 185lbs, I'll went from XXL to XL and will end up in a size L shirt. But my pants went from 46 down to 36 and shall stop at 32 pants.
In the end I choose health.:glasses:
How as your strength been? Higher? Lower? Same? I mean same would be great for the amount of weight you lost. It would be damned hard to guage what you muscle mass has done considering the big weight difference.
My strength has diminished.
I was benching 340 and am down to 280.
Like I said, I am in this for health now, and my victory is measured in resting heart rate, blood pressure and other such items and not bragging rights in the weight room.
I did not wish to end up a jacked corpse.0 -
I just LOVE when a simple question on MFP turns into a pissing contest between people who completely ignore the original question.0
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I asked him specifically if he's been at a deficit the whole time. He's answer "yes".
And I'd think a competitive bodybuilder would know if he's gained muscle or not.
Are you going to say his biceps just "apper" to be larger? Especially since he specifically mentions targeting them?
Competitive bodybuilders say alot of stupid ****.
And for the last time, the CLAIMS OF A SINGLE PERSON ON AN INTERNET FORUM ARE NOT EVIDENCE.
What a person believes, and what is actually happening are two different things.
Alot of them do. What makes you more knowlegble then him? Look at the results, look at his diet. Hell read his thread. Tthen go ahead and tell him he's info is stupid****
For the last ****ing time. N=1 claims DO NOT DISPROVE MOUNTAINS OF SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.
Believe what you want, but you are misinformed.0 -
I asked him specifically if he's been at a deficit the whole time. He's answer "yes".
And I'd think a competitive bodybuilder would know if he's gained muscle or not.
Are you going to say his biceps just "apper" to be larger? Especially since he specifically mentions targeting them?
...
Competitive bodybuilders say alot of stupid ****.
And for the last time, the CLAIMS OF A SINGLE PERSON ON AN INTERNET FORUM ARE NOT EVIDENCE.
What a person believes, and what is actually happening are two different things.
Also, what other substances are these guys taking? The bodybuilding world is wrought with abuse.
No thanks..0 -
I asked him specifically if he's been at a deficit the whole time. He's answer "yes".
And I'd think a competitive bodybuilder would know if he's gained muscle or not.
Are you going to say his biceps just "apper" to be larger? Especially since he specifically mentions targeting them?
Competitive bodybuilders say alot of stupid ****.
And for the last time, the CLAIMS OF A SINGLE PERSON ON AN INTERNET FORUM ARE NOT EVIDENCE.
What a person believes, and what is actually happening are two different things.
Alot of them do. What makes you more knowlegble then him? Look at the results, look at his diet. Hell read his thread. Tthen go ahead and tell him he's info is stupid****
For the last ****ing time. N=1 claims DO NOT DISPROVE MOUNTAINS OF SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.
Believe what you want, but you are misinformed.
Great. That's the way to quantify your point. BTW I haven't seen you in his thread.0 -
I asked him specifically if he's been at a deficit the whole time. He's answer "yes".
And I'd think a competitive bodybuilder would know if he's gained muscle or not.
Are you going to say his biceps just "apper" to be larger? Especially since he specifically mentions targeting them?
...
Competitive bodybuilders say alot of stupid ****.
And for the last time, the CLAIMS OF A SINGLE PERSON ON AN INTERNET FORUM ARE NOT EVIDENCE.
What a person believes, and what is actually happening are two different things.
Also, what other substances are these guys taking? The bodybuilding world is wrought with abuse.
No thanks..
There you go, assumptions. If you haven't noticed his trainer is a natural bodybuilder. Why not asked him yourself?0 -
I just LOVE when a simple question on MFP turns into a pissing contest between people who completely ignore the original question.
I reviewed the OP post. This discussion lies at the heart of what he's tring to find out.0 -
Math is a very clear victor in this situation. You CANNOT physically gain MASS while consuming a DEFICIT of calories vs expenditure. It's one of the fundamental laws of physics. You CAN engorge existing muscles, reduce the fat around them, and other biological effects that can give the ILLUSION of added mass, but it is quite simply physically impossible to build something out of nothing. It's like trying to build a pile of coal in the middle of a fire. Unless you pile more coal on than the fire can consume, it just keeps burning it up.
If someone claims to have added muscle mass while consuming a deficit of calories, they are not correct. Whether they are lying or simply uninformed/misinformed is another discussion.0 -
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Math is a very clear victor in this situation. You CANNOT physically gain MASS while consuming a DEFICIT of calories vs expenditure. It's one of the fundamental laws of physics. You CAN engorge existing muscles, reduce the fat around them, and other biological effects that can give the ILLUSION of added mass, but it is quite simply physically impossible to build something out of nothing. It's like trying to build a pile of coal in the middle of a fire. Unless you pile more coal on than the fire can consume, it just keeps burning it up.
If someone claims to have added muscle mass while consuming a deficit of calories, they are not correct. Whether they are lying or simply uninformed/misinformed is another discussion.
Again, the link is there. Ask him. As far as illusion, there's also a scale involved here. And pictures to evaluate how much bodyfat his holding.0 -
I asked him specifically if he's been at a deficit the whole time. He's answer "yes".
And I'd think a competitive bodybuilder would know if he's gained muscle or not.
Are you going to say his biceps just "apper" to be larger? Especially since he specifically mentions targeting them?
Competitive bodybuilders say alot of stupid ****.
And for the last time, the CLAIMS OF A SINGLE PERSON ON AN INTERNET FORUM ARE NOT EVIDENCE.
What a person believes, and what is actually happening are two different things.
Alot of them do. What makes you more knowlegble then him? Look at the results, look at his diet. Hell read his thread. Tthen go ahead and tell him he's info is stupid****
For the last ****ing time. N=1 claims DO NOT DISPROVE MOUNTAINS OF SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.
Believe what you want, but you are misinformed.
Great. That's the way to quantify your point. BTW I haven't seen you in his thread.
Appeal to authority again. I made my point here, I don't feel like repeating myself to another misinformed bro.0
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