At what price do we eat meat?
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Wasn't aware that vegetarians or vegans had a spokesperson. I know some that chose it for other reasons.
Well....yes. We wouldn't have chosen to stop eating meat if we didn't think it the right moral decision.I think "meat eaters" get all up in arms about vegetarians because most of the ones we come across are self righteous and judgmental about my choice to eat meat. Vegetarians seem to think that they are making the "better" decision and look down on neanderthals like me who still eat meat. That is what gets me annoyed. I have a family member who is a vegetarian (vegan) and he is so obnoxious and thinks he is so much more enlightened than the rest of us.
I don't care what you want to eat. Just let me eat my food the way I want to...it's called freedom.0 -
Food Inc did not turn me off meat.
It turned me off factories.
Do any of you know the environmental damage done by strawberry farms?
Its not the food that is the problem, it is the industries.0 -
I think "meat eaters" get all up in arms about vegetarians because most of the ones we come across are self righteous and judgmental about my choice to eat meat. Vegetarians seem to think that they are making the "better" decision and look down on neanderthals like me who still eat meat. That is what gets me annoyed. I have a family member who is a vegetarian (vegan) and he is so obnoxious and thinks he is so much more enlightened than the rest of us.
I don't care what you want to eat. Just let me eat my food the way I want to...it's called freedom.
Well....yes. We wouldn't have chosen to stop eating meat if we didn't think it the right moral decision.
1. Morality is subjective.
2. I highly doubt ALL vegetarians/vegans chose it because of morality.0 -
This is just stupid, its society! Blame society or big business for pushing local farmers out. If I could raise my own animals and farm my land I would!!! Its just not possible in todays society so live with it!
AMEN! Although I do disagree that it would not be possible to do that anymore in today's society. If we all just SLOWED THE HELL DOWN a little bit, it would be possible. My mother in law worked 3 jobs and maintained a full kitchen garden for her family when my husband was young. It can be done.
It might be a hell of a lot more work and effort that you'd have to expend to run your own farm, but in the end, I think it would be worth it. If I had the time (and knowledge... I'm not much of a green thumb *ahem* I kill plants) to plant my own kitchen garden and have a small place for livestock to graze, I would do it in a heartbeat. Why PAY someone to raise, kill, clean, and package my meat FOR me?? It's something we used to do very well on our own as families not all that long ago and in many places in the US (and in most of the world) that is still the common practice.
But, that's not how American society has evolved... But one day, ONE DAY, I will go OFF THE GRID and tell the system to go screw itself. All I need is the ground, the sky, some water, and a nice hammock. And maybe my iPod... :blushing:0 -
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So little Cody is becoming a vegetarian too then?
He does prefer meat and cheese, but he get so excited when I pull carrots out of the veggie bin that he jumps up and down. When he hears me chopping on the cutting board he comes and sits nearby waiting for his veggie treats: celery, brussels sprout leaves, beets, pears, apples, oranges, bell peppers, peas, green beans, but he just loves the carrots.
It is an interesting discussion you guys have going. I stopped eating lamb first when after we bottle fed "Larisha" and her sister they ended up in our freezer at home. Cody would love it, but I don't think I can eat too much more of the animal products. My husband is the carnivore, so yes, I, the hypocrite cook and buy meat for him. I think I'll check into buying "better" raised meat for him.
It's a free country, so eat what you like. Someone has already been eating my "80" hotdogs that I am supposed to have eaten for years now. Not to mention the 10 pounds or whatever of sugar, etc that "each American" is supposed to consume annually. I am working towards eating mainly green plants, lots of fresh veggies and it is a difficult switch as in planning ahead. I believe I will be healthier. Numerous studies show animal products causing cancer and autoimmune disease. Call me naive but I prefer to err on the side of caution. You don't have to believe what I believe or agree with my opinion.
Have fun! = D
Though dogs and cats are generally classified as carnivores, many animals will eat plant products. Instinctually, they know that fiber aids with digestion which is why you will see a cat or dog with an upset tummy gnawing on some grass blades in the yard. The only reason why I bring all this up is because, from a vetinary standpoint, little Cody would get very sick from malnutrition if meat were completely removed from his diet. Their nutritional requirements demand a diet primarily comprised of meat. If you choose to be vegetarian because you think it will improve your health, then let that be the reason. But don't think that your personal choice will somehow lessen the suffering of animals in the meat industry because your dog will still need to eat dog food that is mostly comprised of meat.0 -
Wow, this is an interesting first thread for me to find. It is a classic argument, and no matter which side you fall on the other will always be wrong. This has more to deal with psychology than anything else. What we believe is in a different part of our brain than how we process logic. You can argue with someone until you are blue in the face and get no where. This study has been done on those who have devout beliefs like religion and politics. The same applies with this argument.
As for the science, you can look at yourself physiologically. Human canines are underdeveloped compared to things like lions or tigers, devout carnivores. Those same animals also lack molars, which are only found in plant eating animals. Carnivores also have a much smaller digestive system than humans do, pound of pound. This is because meat has to rot in the digestive system in order to be processed. This is also one of the causes of BO in humans, the stench has to go somewhere (since becoming vegan, I do not stink anymore). If you eat meat, that is your choice, if you do not eat meat that is your choice, there are no guns being held to someone's head.
As for animals running around, that is a logical fallacy. In economics, there is the law of supply and demand. If there is no demand or lower demand, there will be lower productions of animals. To think that they would be "running through the streets' is crazy, as it would mean that the people in charge of their well being stopped caring. Pro meat eaters, this would mean that people are letting money run around wild, instead of controlling the business.
Life is too short to get bogged down in an eternal debate over who is right, Do the best you can from your end, accept that people are different and follow different paths, and embrace that everyone can learn from each other.0 -
I find meat eaters to be extremely threatened by the position of vegetarians, and I have to wonder why. As a vegetarian, I don't feel threatened by their position; I simply disagree with it. But the people who feel that human beings have a "right" to eat animals do make me see slightly red. As the OP stated, when plants will sustain us, why kill? And those who consider themselves "carnivores" but have to have their (purchased, not self-killed) meat cooked to perfection? C'mon. REAL carnivores kill their own and eat it raw and bloody. The hypocrisy just gets to me. And the poster on this thread who cautioned against anemia for vegetarians, may I say that I am vegetarian and am healthier than I have EVER been in my 54 years of life. My family is healthier because I cook less meat for them. We are almost never sick, and when we are its just a cold or mild bug. No chronic anything. I exercise daily and have amazing stamina and strength. I am 54 years old and can still dance all night.
Vegetarianism does NOT equal anemia or poor health. You CAN get all your nutrition from plants with the possible exception of B12, which can be supplement by fortified foods. Research! Don't just believe what you hear! Vegetarians and vegans who pay attention to their nutritional needs instead of just scarfing down everything that isn't meat will find themselves healthier, and probably lighter of spirit, as their own spirits begin to resonate with the respect they are showing the animal kingdom. If you say you love animals yet you allow your spirit to be numbed to the "industry you rely on for food", then perhaps YOU should make changes so that you no longer rely on that industry...or seriously question your own love of animals. If we are truly honest with ourselves, and make ourselves recognize the absolute devastation that the animal meat industry for food is causing to our health and to the environment, I don't believe we could continue the process.
Now, I'm not arguing with your beliefs or trying to cause trouble, but note you're the first person that's taken giving their opinion in this thread to the level of complaining about other people.
Everyone else so far has given their reasons for being vegetarian or not, and you've come in criticising people who choose to eat meat. Seems a little strange, then, that you're saying the meat-eaters are the ones feeling threatened.
I couldn't care less if people want to be vegetarian, nor if they want to eat meat. That's about as much of an issue to me as whether or not someone likes oranges.
Why would meat eaters feel threatened? Probably because it feels like, because meat eaters do not feel compelled to stop eating meat because of how great vegetarians feel giving up meat is, that vegetarians start accusing meat eaters of being animal haters or other unpleasant monikers.
I do feel that the meat production industry could do a lot to treat animals much more humanely. But it is not influencing my dietary decisions, only my purchasing ones.0 -
If it were a T-Rex eating a human, we scream at those mean ole' dinosaurs. The same applies here. It's a food chain and is natural. It also applies to the ocean..where the big fish eats the little fish.
What purpose is a cow?0 -
When people say they were unhealthy, anaemic, had vit B12 deficiency (seriously? I have NEVER heard of that one anywhere but here, and I know many many vegetarians), it is clear they just weren't doing it very well. If you eat junk, you'll be unhealthy. Doesn't matter if that junk is vegan or not. If you eat healthily, you won't get deficiencies. The fact that most vegans manage perfectly fine and are in fact of above average health pretty much clinches that one.
"had vit B12 deficiency"
I know it seems crazy, how could it be possible, right? However, The first question the doctor asked me when she came back with my blood work was, "Are you a vegetatian?" I have no doubt that there are plenty of people who do fine and are healthy as vegeatarians/vegans. I was not. B12 is found in meat/cheese/eggs etc. I decided to add meat back into my diet instead of taking supplements.0 -
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Food Inc did not turn me off meat.
It turned me off factories.
Do any of you know the environmental damage done by strawberry farms?
Its not the food that is the problem, it is the industries.
^^^^ THIS. Relying on the FDA or USDA to do anything about it is simply pie in the sky, too...0 -
[quote/] I think "meat eaters" get all up in arms about vegetarians because most of the ones we come across are self righteous and judgmental about my choice to eat meat. Vegetarians seem to think that they are making the "better" decision and look down on neanderthals like me who still eat meat. That is what gets me annoyed. I have a family member who is a vegetarian (vegan) and he is so obnoxious and thinks he is so much more enlightened than the rest of us.
I don't care what you want to eat. Just let me eat my food the way I want to...it's called freedom [\quote]
^^^ very well said.
Personally I kill & process almost all the meat I consume(unless its at a restaraunt)
People are omnivores, and our intelligence puts us at the top of the food chain. Therefore we can pretty much eat anything we want. If you think Bessie the cow is gonna live a happy, lovely life playing in a pasture until her ripe old age, then buy some cows & some land & let them hang out. But there's a lot of people that think bessie is gonna taste just fine cooked on a grill. I don't think I've ever seen a meat eater try to convince a veggy to eat meat or stop eating so many plants, but the majority of veggies try thier best to stop people from eating meat.
fixed quotes0 -
Though dogs and cats are generally classified as carnivores, many animals will eat plant products. Instinctually, they know that fiber aids with digestion which is why you will see a cat or dog with an upset tummy gnawing on some grass blades in the yard. The only reason why I bring all this up is because, from a vetinary standpoint, little Cody would get very sick from malnutrition if meat were completely removed from his diet. Their nutritional requirements demand a diet primarily comprised of meat. If you choose to be vegetarian because you think it will improve your health, then let that be the reason. But don't think that your personal choice will somehow lessen the suffering of animals in the meat industry because your dog will still need to eat dog food that is mostly comprised of meat.
Cats are technically obligate carnivores. It's how they survive on most kinds of kibble, which contain mostly plant products or meat by-products (not, y'know, meat). Kibble is basically useless for cats, and why there are a number of problems with their digestive tracts or bladders (they absorb most of their water through food, and kibble has very little moisture).
/gets off her soap-box0 -
I eat meat and am happy to do so. I have gone back and fourth with a vegitarian lifestyle but always end up back at lovng meat. My issues with how meat is raised and killed have been solved by buying 30 acres of land and raising my own. This has solved the delemma for other families too as they now buy meat from us or pay us a fee to pasture an animal on our land. We buy 50 chicks every year and rais them for meat, always have about a dozen laying hens, we buy 1 orphaned calf every year that gets butchered at maturity(which means we usually have 2-3 beef animals of different ages at any given time), 5 piglets a year, and we have a flock of 15 ewes that are bread each year. This supports us and a good number of other families. Animals are cared for to the point of being halter broken and groomed, they all have names and the kids understand that as much as we love these animals they are food. They are killed without the stress of hauling them anywhere and butchered on site. This makes my descision to eat meat very easy. My animals live a good life and are happy. I know this is not even close to possible for most people, and I would never judge someone for having to purchase meat raised in a factory farm, but it works for me and trust me everything is far tastier than what I could buy!!
Oh, just an aside. I suffer from severe iron deficency to the point where I have had IV infusions to bring up my levels. Obviously eating meat is not helping, some people just do not absorb certain things as well as others. As long as people choosing not to eat meat make educated choices they should be getting all the nutrients their body needs. You cannot blame a lifestyle choice(within reason of course as we are discussing healthy diet options) for everything that may medically affect a person. This goes both ways of course!0 -
"As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ..."
Romans 14:1-23 ESV
Someone asked for a biblical scripture... Here is one. Those who eat meat have fun enjoy!! ( yum!!) those who don't have fun. And enjoy as well!! Stop trying to push your belief system on others0 -
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Excellent!"As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ..."
Romans 14:1-23 ESV
Someone asked for a biblical scripture... Here is one. Those who eat meat have fun enjoy!! ( yum!!) those who don't have fun. And enjoy as well!! Stop trying to push your belief system on others0 -
I eat meat because it's freakin' delicous. My weight is down, my lean muscle mass is up. BP is down, Cloresteral is WAY down.
All that with eating meats protrayed in every picture I've posted.
You don't see people enticing us with vegetable pictures.0 -
At about $2.99 per pound.0
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Your pictures are making me hungry!! I'm going home tonight and having a steak and I don't give a flying F what anyone else thinks.0 -
I personally take more issue with the way animals are sometimes treated than eating them. I try to buy free range, grass fed, etc as much as possible, but since I'm on a pretty strict budget, that's not always possible. Also, buying from local raisers has many benefits, including knowing how the animals are treated, what they're fed, etc.
I personally think the Native Americans and other primal people got the idea right though. They ate the animal and used every part of it. But they respected the animal, because it was seen as a bringing of life. It's not coincidence many Native American creation stories involve a buffalo, who was the main source of food for many tribes. Or that many pacific northwest tribes' major ceremonies involve the salmon, who was vital to their survival. I don't take issue eating animals, it's the circle of life, etc. But I do think these animals should be treated right during their lives.
I've been vegetarian before, and I generally only eat meat once a day, tops, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with people eating animals.0 -
I eat meat, that will never change.0
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I eat meat.
I love meat.
I'm not like 99% of Americans who eat Factory Farmed meats.
Grass fed beef is 50% less fat than grain fed (factory farmed).
Eat local. Eat clean. And read "Eating Animals", support your local farmer's market. Volunteer.
A FARMER is not even a job on the US Census any longer. WHY? Well because, corporations grow our food.0 -
Food Inc isn't even that bad. Try watching Earthlings sometime. I didn't even make it through the trailer.
Oh, and about that local family farm, except for chickens, those animals have to be slaughtered in a slaughterhouse, not on the pretty farm you may be imagining.
Sorry, but the meat I get is slaughtered in the basement of the farmers home.
Yea im not sure where you got the idea that all of it gets slaughtered in a slaughter house
My grandma has a chicken farm. She buys little chicks and raises them. She goes out and feeds them, and talks to them every day. She collects their eggs so that she does not buy from the super market. Then when she has to, she says a prayer for them and thanks them for what they give to her. My grandpa rings their necks then the chickens feed my grandma for a long time. She eats animals, but appreciates them.
Here in the UK, all farmed animals have to be killed in an abattoir. Privately owned animals such as chickens can be killed by the owner, but 4 legged animals have to go to an abattoir. This causes a lot of problems for farmers of things such as deer, as the stress of being moved causes the meat to be a lot tougher. The way around this is to register your farm as a park, in which case the animals can be shot in situ and sold as game. That only applies to animals that exist here in the wild, though. There is no way of getting pig, sheep or cow meat that hasn't been through a slaughterhouse.0 -
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Though dogs and cats are generally classified as carnivores, many animals will eat plant products. Instinctually, they know that fiber aids with digestion which is why you will see a cat or dog with an upset tummy gnawing on some grass blades in the yard. The only reason why I bring all this up is because, from a vetinary standpoint, little Cody would get very sick from malnutrition if meat were completely removed from his diet. Their nutritional requirements demand a diet primarily comprised of meat. If you choose to be vegetarian because you think it will improve your health, then let that be the reason. But don't think that your personal choice will somehow lessen the suffering of animals in the meat industry because your dog will still need to eat dog food that is mostly comprised of meat.
Cats are technically obligate carnivores. It's how they survive on most kinds of kibble, which contain mostly plant products or meat by-products (not, y'know, meat). Kibble is basically useless for cats, and why there are a number of problems with their digestive tracts or bladders (they absorb most of their water through food, and kibble has very little moisture).
/gets off her soap-box
Meat by-products are only the parts of the cow/pig that didn't get used by the butcher. So therefore, yeah... its still meat... the same meat that suffered during its short, miserable life... AND you are feeding it to your pets.0 -
I eat meat because it's freakin' delicous. My weight is down, my lean muscle mass is up. BP is down, Cloresteral is WAY down.
All that with eating meats protrayed in every picture I've posted.
You don't see people enticing us with vegetable pictures.
Word.0
This discussion has been closed.
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