At what price do we eat meat?
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My cows trust me to treat them well. And I do.
...until you kill them.
Ahhhh death to all....You do realize that a PLANT is a LIVING organism? Oh you didnt....Now you know.
Oh, please....be serious....Why would you care about plants without nervous systems, when you eat meat?
I am serious. You are berating choices of people that you do not know and on a level you cannot perceive.
I eat both and do not care, either way. What I do care about is your lack of respect for those who choose not see eat as you do. And lets put something into perspective...How do you know a plant doesn't "Feel" in respect to a nervous system...are you a plant? are you sure they don't feel something in another form? No one knows this answer...including you. We can only speculate based on what we have learned. but until you become that which you kill to eat, you will never know. Remember this...they have the ability do something you don't...convert your hot air into the pure oxygen from which you get to continue beating your chest in perception that what you know is right.
Take what you believe as your own truths, but don't force them down others because they are not you. Everyone's body is different and reacts as such. You cannot get everything from a plant...and that goes the same as for meat. Just accept that you enjoy the lifestyle you have and others for themselves.
Most predictable. Thank you for confirming that nothing new has materialized in the 'Plants are alive, too' argument. I grew up on a family farm. We raised chickens, turkeys, pigs and black angus for meat. We also had a one-acre garden. So I know both pretty well. Go look at these organisms, and then tell me that they have equal sentience. (Oh, I KNOW, you wil tell me "I never said that.)
Just as in law, there are capital felonies and petty crimes, there's a spectrum of cruelty. Eating plants sits lower on that spectrum than meat-eating, in my opinion. This is as much as I want to hear about this boring "plants have feelings too' discussion. Bring on something novel, or just stop talking to me.
I read a study once that plants talked about how plants send out stronger electrical impulses when someone who is mean to them is in the room. What they did is hook a device to plants that recorded the plants electrical output...whatever that mens in plant land. Then they sent a person into the room who was "mean to the plant" they yelled, shook the pot and sometimes removed a leaf. THen they sent someone in the room who was "nice" to the plant . They watered it, took care of it, talked nice to it. After a few episodes of both when the "mean" person went into the room the plant would become "excited" and send out more electrical impulses...does this mean they have "feelings".
Check out the meaning of the word anthropomorphic. Plants and animals do not really have feelings or emotions that humans have.
A plant is not capable of this, and if you actually believe that then please explain this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sju3kSTAzdI&feature=fvwrel Oh man this video makes me cry everytime. I'm such a softy. 0 -
since everyone is so caught up in fussing..... Im going to give you a little encouragement! I hope every last one of you meet and exceed your goals 0
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I have been vegetarian for awhile now and I'm very proud of myself. I'm going to get a tattoo to symbolize it.
I don't want to say anything that will offend anyone. I know I probably will...so my opinion is that...its selfish of us to kill an animal that God has given life to...I just can't look at my dog and think that some people (in the other part of the world) would eat her.0 -
Did you want me to SAY something? Is this your version of a 'steak in your eye'? Not original.
pictures = thousand words.
Thanks for posting this jerk! I'm sitting at work starving and then I stumble across this. LMAO
Question. If I posted a pic of
would it have had the same reaction? I doubt vegatarians are going "OMG, I'm so hungry now!"
*kitten*-U-ME, again?????? I think these pictures are intended to disgust and incite people who love animals and don't eat them. It's not about you.
You didn't answer the question. At all
Since you are showing cooked ribs, instead of a freshly sawed half of cow, do me the courtesy of cooking that broccoli for me. A nice stir-fry please, hold the meat.
Steamed would look just like that. But again, question not answered. You are free to post any lip smacking veggie dish you like. I doubt it would have the same palovian response though.0 -
I don't think Food, Inc. was about stopping eating meat but rather that there are more humane ways to raise and slaughter animals than what is commercially standard now.
That being said, I would really like to find more places that sell humanely raised beef and chicken, but it's not easy to do unless you want to spend an arm and a leg, which most of us simply cannot afford.
For those of you interested in purchasing sustainable fish products, check out:
http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/cr_seafoodwatch/sfw_recommendations.aspx?c=ln
Seafood Watch is a program run by the Monterey Bay Aquarium that keeps up with current fisheries programs and scientific recommendations on the sustainability, environmental impacts, and bycatch associated with certain fisheries. If you are interested in being more informed about which fish you are eating are sustainably caught with minimal environmental impact and which are not, check it out. They even have an app.
I agree with your thoughts on FoodInc. In my thinking, it is not abolitionist in its approach. Same with the Meatless Mondays campaign. Meat eating isn't going to disappear tomorrow, but so much would improve for animals and the environment, even if Americans simply had one meatless day a week.
I have days when I don't eat meat (usually once a week or so).0 -
Now I don't remember if this has been covered yet but are we also saying that eating seafood is bad? Or is that acceptable. I'm a huge seafood fan.0
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Now I don't remember if this has been covered yet but are we also saying that eating seafood is bad? Or is that acceptable. I'm a huge seafood fan.
I just posted a link to the Monterey Bay Aquarium's Seafood Watch for those who might be interested is all. Just for reference for those who eat fish.0 -
Thank you Elizabeth, I'll have a read. It would be very difficult for me to stop eating fish that's for sure, I've loved seafood since I can remember and in all it's forms especially sushi.0
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I don't think Food, Inc. was about stopping eating meat but rather that there are more humane ways to raise and slaughter animals than what is commercially standard now.
That being said, I would really like to find more places that sell humanely raised beef and chicken, but it's not easy to do unless you want to spend an arm and a leg, which most of us simply cannot afford.
For those of you interested in purchasing sustainable fish products, check out:
http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/cr_seafoodwatch/sfw_recommendations.aspx?c=ln
Seafood Watch is a program run by the Monterey Bay Aquarium that keeps up with current fisheries programs and scientific recommendations on the sustainability, environmental impacts, and bycatch associated with certain fisheries. If you are interested in being more informed about which fish you are eating are sustainably caught with minimal environmental impact and which are not, check it out. They even have an app.
I agree with your thoughts on FoodInc. In my thinking, it is not abolitionist in its approach. Same with the Meatless Mondays campaign. Meat eating isn't going to disappear tomorrow, but so much would improve for animals and the environment, even if Americans simply had one meatless day a week.
I have days when I don't eat meat (usually once a week or so).
I do my best to only eat one or two helpings of red meat weekly. And most everything I buy is organic and local, plus the meats humanely and sustainably raised. But this is because I have access to such things here in the San Francisco Bay Area.0 -
I'll take the ribs AND the broccoli please. :flowerforyou:0
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I don't think Food, Inc. was about stopping eating meat but rather that there are more humane ways to raise and slaughter animals than what is commercially standard now.
That being said, I would really like to find more places that sell humanely raised beef and chicken, but it's not easy to do unless you want to spend an arm and a leg, which most of us simply cannot afford.
For those of you interested in purchasing sustainable fish products, check out:
http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/cr_seafoodwatch/sfw_recommendations.aspx?c=ln
Seafood Watch is a program run by the Monterey Bay Aquarium that keeps up with current fisheries programs and scientific recommendations on the sustainability, environmental impacts, and bycatch associated with certain fisheries. If you are interested in being more informed about which fish you are eating are sustainably caught with minimal environmental impact and which are not, check it out. They even have an app.
I agree with your thoughts on FoodInc. In my thinking, it is not abolitionist in its approach. Same with the Meatless Mondays campaign. Meat eating isn't going to disappear tomorrow, but so much would improve for animals and the environment, even if Americans simply had one meatless day a week.
I have days when I don't eat meat (usually once a week or so).
I do my best to only eat one or two helpings of red meat weekly. And most everything I buy is organic and local, plus the meats humanely and sustainably raised. But this is because I have access to such things here in the San Francisco Bay Area.
You're lucky. I have a hard time finding organic meats here in South Florida without ordering them via mail.0 -
I find meat eaters to be extremely threatened by the position of vegetarians, and I have to wonder why. As a vegetarian, I don't feel threatened by their position; I simply disagree with it. But the people who feel that human beings have a "right" to eat animals do make me see slightly red. As the OP stated, when plants will sustain us, why kill? And those who consider themselves "carnivores" but have to have their (purchased, not self-killed) meat cooked to perfection? C'mon. REAL carnivores kill their own and eat it raw and bloody. The hypocrisy just gets to me. And the poster on this thread who cautioned against anemia for vegetarians, may I say that I am vegetarian and am healthier than I have EVER been in my 54 years of life. My family is healthier because I cook less meat for them. We are almost never sick, and when we are its just a cold or mild bug. No chronic anything. I exercise daily and have amazing stamina and strength. I am 54 years old and can still dance all night. Vegetarianism does NOT equal anemia or poor health. You CAN get all your nutrition from plants with the possible exception of B12, which can be supplement by fortified foods. Research! Don't just believe what you hear! Vegetarians and vegans who pay attention to their nutritional needs instead of just scarfing down everything that isn't meat will find themselves healthier, and probably lighter of spirit, as their own spirits begin to resonate with the respect they are showing the animal kingdom. If you say you love animals yet you allow your spirit to be numbed to the "industry you rely on for food", then perhaps YOU should make changes so that you no longer rely on that industry...or seriously question your own love of animals. If we are truly honest with ourselves, and make ourselves recognize the absolute devastation that the animal meat industry for food is causing to our health and to the environment, I don't believe we could continue the process.
You wonder why your opinions upset meat eaters? Seriously? You say you simply disagree, but your "holier than thou" attitude is ridiculous. I don't want to change your mind. I WANT you to eat only veggies if it makes you happy. But to add the spirituality aspect is so silly. I think differently than you so I'm a hypocrite and I can't be spiritual or healthy or a good person? I can't be an animal lover because I eat meat? I guess deep down I only have a dog in case I get really hungry some time. i can't even be a real carnivore unless I kill my meal and eat it raw? That's a lot of judgement you're casting on meat eaters. You're healthier than ever before in your 54 years, good for you. I would guess that veggies are not the only change you made in your life and that there are many contributing factors.
I know many vegetarians and I have seen almost all of them give in to their cravings and eat meat (especially if I'm doing the grilling). I don't judge them for an occasional burger, but the other 99% of the time I have to hear about how terrible I am every time I sit down to enjoy a steak. I think "healthy eating" can come in many forms and vegetarianism is one of those. Live and let live, eat and let eat!
Arny0 -
I don't think Food, Inc. was about stopping eating meat but rather that there are more humane ways to raise and slaughter animals than what is commercially standard now.
That being said, I would really like to find more places that sell humanely raised beef and chicken, but it's not easy to do unless you want to spend an arm and a leg, which most of us simply cannot afford.
For those of you interested in purchasing sustainable fish products, check out:
http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/cr_seafoodwatch/sfw_recommendations.aspx?c=ln
Seafood Watch is a program run by the Monterey Bay Aquarium that keeps up with current fisheries programs and scientific recommendations on the sustainability, environmental impacts, and bycatch associated with certain fisheries. If you are interested in being more informed about which fish you are eating are sustainably caught with minimal environmental impact and which are not, check it out. They even have an app.
I agree with your thoughts on FoodInc. In my thinking, it is not abolitionist in its approach. Same with the Meatless Mondays campaign. Meat eating isn't going to disappear tomorrow, but so much would improve for animals and the environment, even if Americans simply had one meatless day a week.
I have days when I don't eat meat (usually once a week or so).
I do my best to only eat one or two helpings of red meat weekly. And most everything I buy is organic and local, plus the meats humanely and sustainably raised. But this is because I have access to such things here in the San Francisco Bay Area.
Food Inc was a great look at where food comes from. I wouldnt dare weigh in on to eat meat or not to eat meat. Thats a personal choice, but be informed watch Pen and Tellers Organic Bull****. You may rethink organic.0 -
I find meat eaters to be extremely threatened by the position of vegetarians, and I have to wonder why. As a vegetarian, I don't feel threatened by their position; I simply disagree with it. But the people who feel that human beings have a "right" to eat animals do make me see slightly red. As the OP stated, when plants will sustain us, why kill? And those who consider themselves "carnivores" but have to have their (purchased, not self-killed) meat cooked to perfection? C'mon. REAL carnivores kill their own and eat it raw and bloody. The hypocrisy just gets to me. And the poster on this thread who cautioned against anemia for vegetarians, may I say that I am vegetarian and am healthier than I have EVER been in my 54 years of life. My family is healthier because I cook less meat for them. We are almost never sick, and when we are its just a cold or mild bug. No chronic anything. I exercise daily and have amazing stamina and strength. I am 54 years old and can still dance all night. Vegetarianism does NOT equal anemia or poor health. You CAN get all your nutrition from plants with the possible exception of B12, which can be supplement by fortified foods. Research! Don't just believe what you hear! Vegetarians and vegans who pay attention to their nutritional needs instead of just scarfing down everything that isn't meat will find themselves healthier, and probably lighter of spirit, as their own spirits begin to resonate with the respect they are showing the animal kingdom. If you say you love animals yet you allow your spirit to be numbed to the "industry you rely on for food", then perhaps YOU should make changes so that you no longer rely on that industry...or seriously question your own love of animals. If we are truly honest with ourselves, and make ourselves recognize the absolute devastation that the animal meat industry for food is causing to our health and to the environment, I don't believe we could continue the process.
You wonder why your opinions upset meat eaters? Seriously? You say you simply disagree, but your "holier than thou" attitude is ridiculous. I don't want to change your mind. I WANT you to eat only veggies if it makes you happy. But to add the spirituality aspect is so silly. I think differently than you so I'm a hypocrite and I can't be spiritual or healthy or a good person? I can't be an animal lover because I eat meat? I guess deep down I only have a dog in case I get really hungry some time. i can't even be a real carnivore unless I kill my meal and eat it raw? That's a lot of judgement you're casting on meat eaters. You're healthier than ever before in your 54 years, good for you. I would guess that veggies are not the only change you made in your life and that there are many contributing factors.
I know many vegetarians and I have seen almost all of them give in to their cravings and eat meat (especially if I'm doing the grilling). I don't judge them for an occasional burger, but the other 99% of the time I have to hear about how terrible I am every time I sit down to enjoy a steak. I think "healthy eating" can come in many forms and vegetarianism is one of those. Live and let live, eat and let eat!
Arny
I couldn't agree more.0 -
I just skimmed over and read a majority of the posts in this thread. I don't know why but I feel compelled to share some of my experience as a vegetarian.
I have been a vegetarian for two years.
On occasion I eat the fake meat products mentioned early in these posts. I don't do it for nutritional value or to curb cravings (I in fact have had almost no cravings for any time of meat besides fish). I think these substitutes are kind of silly. I learned to change my diet by expanding my own cooking knowledge. I have tried so many new things because of the switch in my diet! Usually I just bring a veggie burger to a barbeque. Things like that.
I don't have a problem with hunters, I get it. I was raised by one. If I were ever going to eat meat again, I'd do the killing/cleaning myself.
But I don't want to eat meat and I don't think it will ever be necessary. Which brings me to another point, I don't eat meat because I don't have to. I don't need it, I have been perfectly healthy and happy without it. I would say healthier even, because I stopped eating fast food and now consume more fruit. Meat eaters could do the same though and have the same result.
one last thing. If I had a problem with "meat eaters" it would be the ones who don't believe it is possible to be healthy with this diet. I wish they could understand, I wish I could share my knowledge and research with them. It's not all meat eaters of course but there are plenty who don't want to listen. That makes me angry. It's a choice and for me, it was the right choice.
Ok I don't know if this was valuable to any one, but I feel a little better...0 -
You wonder why your opinions upset meat eaters? Seriously? You say you simply disagree, but your "holier than thou" attitude is ridiculous. I don't want to change your mind. I WANT you to eat only veggies if it makes you happy. But to add the spirituality aspect is so silly. I think differently than you so I'm a hypocrite and I can't be spiritual or healthy or a good person? I can't be an animal lover because I eat meat? I guess deep down I only have a dog in case I get really hungry some time. i can't even be a real carnivore unless I kill my meal and eat it raw? That's a lot of judgement you're casting on meat eaters. You're healthier than ever before in your 54 years, good for you. I would guess that veggies are not the only change you made in your life and that there are many contributing factors.
I know many vegetarians and I have seen almost all of them give in to their cravings and eat meat (especially if I'm doing the grilling). I don't judge them for an occasional burger, but the other 99% of the time I have to hear about how terrible I am every time I sit down to enjoy a steak. I think "healthy eating" can come in many forms and vegetarianism is one of those. Live and let live, eat and let eat!
Arny
I quite agree, live and let live, eat and let eat. there are many valid reasons to be vegetarian, but also many valid reasons not to be. I love animals, especially sheep, cows and pigs, as i spend time on the farm it sometimes hits you that in a few months time that this is what you're going to be eating, but meat can taste better knowing it was properly treated.0 -
If we were only supposed to do enough to "sustain" life, we wouldn't need TV, theater, football games, designer clothes, high heels, etc. Basically to sustain life you'd just need to eat, drink water, and get rest. I don't think anyone here could live that way just to "sustain" themselves for life.
Can you be meat free and "sustain"? Of course, but like football, tv, video games, working out, etc. I like to enjoy life sustaining myself. And part or that enjoyment is my cultural eating which includes meat in many many of the dishes. But unlike the above mentioned, meat consumption has been done by earliest man. So to try to abstain from eating it, after doing it for practically all of my life, would be more than a challenge I would care to tackle. Like I tell my clients, don't cut out what you actually enjoy eating or you'll eventual fail at your weight loss. Learn to moderate it, enjoy it and live a better life.
Let's face it, this argument is more an ethics and morality issue, than it is one that is settled by providing each other's side on the advantages of why should/shouldn't consume meat. My morality says it's okay and that's why I do it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I find meat eaters to be extremely threatened by the position of vegetarians, and I have to wonder why. As a vegetarian, I don't feel threatened by their position; I simply disagree with it. But the people who feel that human beings have a "right" to eat animals do make me see slightly red. As the OP stated, when plants will sustain us, why kill? And those who consider themselves "carnivores" but have to have their (purchased, not self-killed) meat cooked to perfection? C'mon. REAL carnivores kill their own and eat it raw and bloody. The hypocrisy just gets to me. And the poster on this thread who cautioned against anemia for vegetarians, may I say that I am vegetarian and am healthier than I have EVER been in my 54 years of life. My family is healthier because I cook less meat for them. We are almost never sick, and when we are its just a cold or mild bug. No chronic anything. I exercise daily and have amazing stamina and strength. I am 54 years old and can still dance all night. Vegetarianism does NOT equal anemia or poor health. You CAN get all your nutrition from plants with the possible exception of B12, which can be supplement by fortified foods. Research! Don't just believe what you hear! Vegetarians and vegans who pay attention to their nutritional needs instead of just scarfing down everything that isn't meat will find themselves healthier, and probably lighter of spirit, as their own spirits begin to resonate with the respect they are showing the animal kingdom. If you say you love animals yet you allow your spirit to be numbed to the "industry you rely on for food", then perhaps YOU should make changes so that you no longer rely on that industry...or seriously question your own love of animals. If we are truly honest with ourselves, and make ourselves recognize the absolute devastation that the animal meat industry for food is causing to our health and to the environment, I don't believe we could continue the process.
[/
but your "holier than thou" attitude is ridiculous. <--most vegetarians I know are not like this, and you are making generalized uninformed statements.
I know many vegetarians and I have seen almost all of them give in to their cravings and eat meat (especially if I'm doing the grilling). <--out right lies. I became a vegetarian 4 years ago, and have not touched any meat, seafood included.
Arny0 -
Food Inc was a great look at where food comes from. I wouldnt dare weigh in on to eat meat or not to eat meat. Thats a personal choice, but be informed watch Pen and Tellers Organic Bull****. You may rethink organic.
I agree fully, with all of it. Eating or not eating meat is a personal choice and different people have different reasons. Food Inc was a good look at where food comes from, I think for me it's about eating things that are available locally. The less food has to travel, the less gas is used to transport, the less packing that's used, ect. That is more important to me personally than "organic". I agree with the Penn & Teller episode of Bull****, it was an eye opener. I just try to get as much of my groceries from farmers markets as possible, it's local, fresh, generally cheaper produce-wise, and the guy who grew it is selling it to me
I personally eat meat (chicken & seafood) maybe 4 times a week, but I've never been a big meat eater.0 -
I find meat eaters to be extremely threatened by the position of vegetarians, and I have to wonder why. As a vegetarian, I don't feel threatened by their position; I simply disagree with it. But the people who feel that human beings have a "right" to eat animals do make me see slightly red. As the OP stated, when plants will sustain us, why kill? And those who consider themselves "carnivores" but have to have their (purchased, not self-killed) meat cooked to perfection? C'mon. REAL carnivores kill their own and eat it raw and bloody. The hypocrisy just gets to me. And the poster on this thread who cautioned against anemia for vegetarians, may I say that I am vegetarian and am healthier than I have EVER been in my 54 years of life. My family is healthier because I cook less meat for them. We are almost never sick, and when we are its just a cold or mild bug. No chronic anything. I exercise daily and have amazing stamina and strength. I am 54 years old and can still dance all night. Vegetarianism does NOT equal anemia or poor health. You CAN get all your nutrition from plants with the possible exception of B12, which can be supplement by fortified foods. Research! Don't just believe what you hear! Vegetarians and vegans who pay attention to their nutritional needs instead of just scarfing down everything that isn't meat will find themselves healthier, and probably lighter of spirit, as their own spirits begin to resonate with the respect they are showing the animal kingdom. If you say you love animals yet you allow your spirit to be numbed to the "industry you rely on for food", then perhaps YOU should make changes so that you no longer rely on that industry...or seriously question your own love of animals. If we are truly honest with ourselves, and make ourselves recognize the absolute devastation that the animal meat industry for food is causing to our health and to the environment, I don't believe we could continue the process.
You wonder why your opinions upset meat eaters? Seriously? You say you simply disagree, but your "holier than thou" attitude is ridiculous. I don't want to change your mind. I WANT you to eat only veggies if it makes you happy. But to add the spirituality aspect is so silly. I think differently than you so I'm a hypocrite and I can't be spiritual or healthy or a good person? I can't be an animal lover because I eat meat? I guess deep down I only have a dog in case I get really hungry some time. i can't even be a real carnivore unless I kill my meal and eat it raw? That's a lot of judgement you're casting on meat eaters. You're healthier than ever before in your 54 years, good for you. I would guess that veggies are not the only change you made in your life and that there are many contributing factors.
I know many vegetarians and I have seen almost all of them give in to their cravings and eat meat (especially if I'm doing the grilling). I don't judge them for an occasional burger, but the other 99% of the time I have to hear about how terrible I am every time I sit down to enjoy a steak. I think "healthy eating" can come in many forms and vegetarianism is one of those. Live and let live, eat and let eat!
Arny
Agreed.
Arguing about being a Vegan vs being an Omnivore is no different than Catholic vs. Christian, vs. Muslim or Republican vs. Democrat or any other philosophical choice. Believe in what makes you happy but don't expect everybody to agree with you. If being a Vegan makes you happy, great but don't push your beliefs on others and make people that don't follow your feelings feel like bad people.0
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