Teacher Criticisms...(rant)
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What Do Teachers Make?
by Author Unknown
The dinner guests were sitting around the table discussing life. One man, a CEO, decided to explain the problem with education.
He argued: "What's a kid going to learn from someone who decided his best option in life was to become a teacher?"
He reminded the other dinner guests that it's true what they say about teachers: "Those who can...do. Those who can't...teach."
To corroborate, he said to another guest: "You're a teacher, Susan," he said. "Be honest. What do you make?"
Susan, who had a reputation of honesty and frankness, replied, "You want to know what I make?"
"I make kids work harder than they ever thought they could."
“I make kids believe in themselves when no one else will.”
"I make a C+ feel like a Congressional Medal of Honor and an A- feel like a slap in the face if the student did not do his or her very best."
"I make parents tremble in fear when I call home"
"You want to know what I make?
"I make kids wonder."
"I make them question."
"I make them criticize."
"I make them apologize and mean it."
"I make them write."
"I make them read, read, read."
"I make them spell definitely beautiful, definitely beautiful, and definitely beautiful over and over and over again, until they will never misspell either one of those words again."
"I make them show all their work in math and hide it all on their final drafts in English."
"I make them understand that if you have a dream, then follow it...and if someone ever tries to judge you by what you make or what you do, you pay them no attention."
"You want to know what I make?!"
"I make a difference."
"What about you?"
This is FANTASTIC....Thank you so much for sharing!0 -
We have a pretty fair-sized list of school supplies we purchase every year, in addition to the school fees and property taxes.And as far as I know, my district doesn't pay for the Masters program. LOL We don't even have writing paper for our kids!
THIS! All you teacher bashers, do YOU buy all of the supplies for your job? Because I do!
Not complaining, just sayin'.
Awesome for those teachers. I work in a Title 1 School District. This means the majority of the children live below the poverty line. They don't buy the things on that list, because they can't.
Me too! I have to find ways to make the little bit of school supplies we get from a local charity last all year.
I cut things out of my grocery budget at the beginning of the school year to squeeze it in.0 -
I was a biology/phsyical science high school teacher here in the State of Flori-duh. Its not necessarily the teachers that are the problem its more of the Board of Education. No child left behind is a joke, it should be abolished. If a kid is 16 and is only taking learning as a joke and is more of a hands on guy, then he should be allowed to drop out. Secondly I also blame the parents. So many parents dont take part in there kids education. They expect the schools do everything.
Here in Florida, the Superintendent might last 4 to 8 years try to change the system, the look to get into politics. Then another Superintendent is hired and says I have a new path to increase learning. The cycle continues and continues.
Home schooling is okay but my big issue with it is that there are alot of errors in books and unless you are a professional in the field, you will not realize what you are reading is wrong and teach it and that can be a big issue with homeschooling. Then again there are plenty of errors in textbooks and teachers dont necessarily find them either.
I have a BS in Biology so if i see an error I can figure it out. I do not have a degree in education. I know plenty of hardworking teachers who put so much of their own money into it and dont get any rate of return on it except personal accomplishment when they actually see a student go above and beyond
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But I will back out from this conversation. People who don't know where I teach just don't get it.
I love my job, I do my job the best I can and even when I am told to Eff Off by kids, I don't let it get to me...
Just like this conversation won't get to me because I know that every era needs a scapegoat...teachers are the scapegoat right now. That's fine. I just wish the complainers would come in and show me a better way...cause sometimes I'm at a loss.0 -
My kids are older now (16 and 19), but we home schooled both of them. My oldest is in his first year of law school, my youngest is finishing up her associate's degree. These were kids who were very poorly served in public school for various reasons, and it wasn't because they were geniuses. They aren't little Einsteins--just average kids who needed to be taught to their talents, and otherwise left alone to explore.
I am not politically conservative in the least, but would just like schools to go back to emphasizing academic excellence. Let kids learn at their own pace; don't dumb down, and don't whip kids with learning differences to perform beyond their abilities and make them feel like total failures.
I think the educational system in the US is broken, and needs a major reinvention. Until that time, I think throwing money at it isn't going to help. And, yes, I think teachers work very hard, and deserve to be paid well, but I think unions hurt their cause by making people resent that they keep the bad apples at work and advocate for payment methods that do not reward the best teachers.
^^This0 -
And as far as I know, my district doesn't pay for the Masters program. LOL We don't even have writing paper for our kids!
THIS! All you teacher bashers, do YOU buy all of the supplies for your job? Because I do!
I think you are forgetting the small business owners (and micro business owners) - like myself. I work my *kitten* off. I buy my supplies. I do my own business development. I do my own work. I am the IT guy. I am the mail guy. but HEY...I am not complaining. because I CHOSE this profession. Just like the teachers did!
seriously, why are some teachers on here bashing those who aren't teachers. Just because you buy your supplies (and trust me, I know you do..and I KNOW you spend a LOT OF $$$ And time on doing outside work)...but don't think you are the only ones.
#GRINDING daily.
My husband is a small business owner. I'm well aware of what you pay for, because I pay for it too. I wasn't bashing anyone, other than the ignorant person who thought my school pays for everything.0 -
Wow, as a teacher I am shocked half of these things even came out of your mouth. I will say I am most shocked by your lack of correct grammar. For beating up on HS grads so much you would THINK you would at least know to not end a sentence in a preposistion! You do realize we do not get to CHOOSE what we teach. It is mandated by the states. I would love to teach students to write a proper research paper with correct grammar (maybe I'll teach you one day as well). However, this is not the luxury I have in my job. While we are throwing stones, please remember you will have students who struggle more, as you teach at a community college. Students who can study for themselves and score high on college tests go to universities and state schools. You think you would at least be grateful that the students you have are looking to better themselves instead of on the streets.First off, I am a teacher.
I teach in a community/technological college. I see the product of the American education system and all I can say is that if I worked on a production line and put out that kind of a product, I would be fired.
I enjoy teaching older students because they recognize the value of spelling and grammar as well as making a study schedule. They work hard and expect a lot from themselves.
The younger group, for the most part, have no clue what a study schedule is, expect to not have homework, can't spell, have no concept of capitalizing the first word of a sentence or using punctuation, and can't do simple math without a calculator. Additionally, they have no research skills, believe any of the Wiki sites are suitable for research papers, copy and paste without citations, and then wonder why I gave them an 'F' on their paper.
I have to re-teach every student who comes out of schools these days. I have to have them bring in calendars and create a study schedule. I have to explain to them how to take notes, how to do assignments, and how to study for tests. I still have students that will ask me what is on the tests because they can't seem to grasp an understanding of what is important and what isn't important, even when I stand up and say, "Now this is important, so pay attention."
They want every test to be a multiple choice test. They panic when they have to write out a paragraph for short answer essay. Half the time I have to find an interpreter to read their printing. They don't know how to write in cursive. Those that do write must be going on to be doctors because I sometimes have to ask who the paper belongs to or what it says.
They call me at all hours of the day, and sometimes at night, because everything is an 'emergency'. They can't follow the syllabus. Most don't hand in assignments on time and some even insist that the assignments are optional according to the school. If they were optional, would I have assigned them points and included the points in the final point count?
Few students coming out of school have logic or reasoning abilities. They can't read well enough to understand the material that is presented to them. Simple words stump them, so you can imagine what larger words associated with Anatomy and Physiology do to them. They can't form complete sentences and half their sentences make no sense.
I wouldn't worry so much if this was just one or two students coming out of highschool. Unfortunately, this has been about 95% of the students coming out of highschool. That's another thing: I put the number of points that they get correct on their test and they can't figure out the percentage that they got on the test. I have to do it for them!!
What people don't realize is that the ACT, PSAT, and SAT (tests used for college placement) have been dumbed-down so that the students today can get an acceptable score! Otherwise, there would only be Asian, Middle East, African, and European students in our colleges and universities.
Do I think that teachers deserve a raise? Not when they are producing the students that I have to re-teach every block.
The raises that teachers receive should be tied to how well their students do. Yes, there are students whose parents don't encourage them. Yes, there are students who don't want to crack open a book. I've had some of those as well. You motivate them. You talk with the parents and motivate them as well. If they are not interested in their child's education, then you talk to Social Service and Child Protection.
I homeschooled both my children from fifth grade on. Why? My daughter kept being passed on to the next grade even though she could not read, so I took the reins and pulled her out of school. She is an avid reader now and an electrician. My son kept getting beat up in fifth grade by a gang of girls. They didn't just beat up him, they beat up other boys as well. He ended up with a concussion and fractured ribs, so I pulled him out of school. This happened in the playground in front of playground monitors, by the way! He is now an honor student at Penn State. They both scored higher than children who went through public and private schooling on their placement tests.
We live in a society where knowledge is necessary to make a living, yet our students are not being educated well enough to prepare them well enough to make a living. They can't balance their check books, read, write, think for themselves, think logically, perform math, etc. They don't have the motivation to do anything other than what is asked of them. They need their hands held for just about everything. In Europe, adolescents are cognizant of the world and their place in it. In America, adolescents are cognizant of only themselves and what's in it for them.
I blame this on a school system who wants to make every child feel good. The every child is a winner concept is ridiculous because it makes children less motivated. Why excel if you are not going to be recognized for what you do? So every child produced will be mediocre at best and that is pretty much what I am seeing in the community colleges today.0 -
It's not so black and white. There is so much wrong on so many levels. SO many parents don't do their part, and So many teachers don't do there's. I'm in and out of different classrooms every day, I see many excellent teachers, and I see many horrible teachers.
To me, it's not really a matter of who's to blame. The fact is that as a nation, we are failing our students. And something different needs to be done.
I have two graduated, one graduates this year and one next year. If I had to do it again, no way in hell would my kids be in this school system.
This is very true. That's why I, as a teacher, support merit-based pay.
I'm a teacher, and I have created a computerized program that gets better results in literacy. I devoted hours and hours to making the program, and paid for it out of my own pocket. On top of that, I spent hours with kids, helping them succeed on their tests. I work with the most disadvantaged kids, in tough schools, and I consider my work ethic to be top notch.
But, I do not support merit-based pay. No way. It saddens me that the guy in the classroom next door leaves at 3 o'clock and doesn't really care about the kids. It frustrates me that not everyone is as invested as I am. But, I believe in teachers. Most teachers are great people who care about the kids first and foremost.
And, teaching is only going to get better if we make it a team sport. It's already catty, undermining, judgmental and cruel in the staffroom (not all staffrooms- I've worked in 13 schools- but in a lot of staffrooms). We need to come together.
I love the comments made by the person who started this discussion. Those who do not teach and who make nasty comments, do not understand. But, those of us who do teach--- we get it. We know why the test scores are low. We know why kids are failing. It's not because of bad teachers. To pit us against each other with pay bonuses, and watch those be unfairly rewarded, withdrawn, and all the issues that will come with that, is a very dangerous move.
People outside of teaching do not understand the commitment.0 -
My mother was a teacher in NYC for about 30 years until she had to retire early due to a late disability. Teachers should have a better salary as well as more money in general to have better teaching facilities and the like. People are willing to pay sports people over a millions dollars to watch them throw balls around for about 5-7 months (not that that's wrong or bad because I guess its entertainment) but they at some point had teachers as well, and what does it say about a society that is willing to spend so much on something like that when they won't really give the time of day to teachers in the public school sector trying to teach kids and bring them to university level to then graduate and go on with their lives? Time and time again we hear on the news about how our schools are failing and/or are subpar to other countries who might not be as big as ours but they are depending on the education system to teach the future generations to help their country propel themselves into the greater markets to compete. Our systems used to be great until the government around the 80s shifted the money from education to other things. If we don't teach the next generations properly you can't really expect the US to really dominate as many fields anymore.0
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Normally the school supplies run around $80 to $100 per year per child. I'd feel terrible if the teachers had to pay out of pocket for them.Awesome for those teachers. I work in a Title 1 School District. This means the majority of the children live below the poverty line. They don't buy the things on that list, because they can't.0 -
My husband has had 3 careers, one as a naval officer, one in business, and a third career in teaching.
The least respect? Teaching. The least amount of money? Teaching. The most vilified by politicians? Teaching.
The worst benefits? Teaching.
In contrast, my brother is a pilot, makes twice as much money, works far fewer days, and lives a much better lifestyle. No one yells at pilots as a group when flights are late, or passengers act badly.0 -
Normally the school supplies run around $80 to $100 per year per child. I'd feel terrible if the teachers had to pay out of pocket for them.Awesome for those teachers. I work in a Title 1 School District. This means the majority of the children live below the poverty line. They don't buy the things on that list, because they can't.
I try my best to pay for that stuff, but keep in mind, I am a single mom who was making less than 20k up until last year.0 -
Yes, the Masters degree really hurt me. Sadly I earned it while working in a private setting and then got laid off! I then tried getting a public school position with a Masters with 5 years exp and yes not good!! Nice to know that my loans won't be going anywhere any time soon! Yuck! I love to teach too! This year I have 6 high school kids with Autism and they make my day!Woah...teachers get paid in the summer? I don't!!! I signup for summer school so I can have some income. I also have 2 part time jobs. Missouri makes it so you have to get your M. Ed. I did...spent a year unemployed because who wants to pay for an over-qualified teacher??? I now have 30,000 in student loans!!! I make before taxes, union dues, health insurance, appox $41,000 and thats Master level pay. Its livable, but I am barely making a dent in my loans. I have seen teachers easily get fired numerous times, so unions don't protect us that well. I am expected to be a teacher, a nurse, parent, counselor, social worker, chef, bathroom attendent, friend and baby sitter with my kids. Its a hard job that requires constant training! Its not a nine to five job. I get here at 7am and I am home by 5:30...and I do bring work home with me. So much wrong with everything!
Our salaries are spread out over 12 months. That's all.
I have been teaching 11 years and brought home 33,000 last year. I don't complain about my salary. I have never marched for a raise, etc. I became a teacher because I love it...not for the money. I have lived comfortably, albeit paycheck to paycheck, but who doesn't these days?
I, too, have about 28,000 in student loans (since 1998! The interest just grows! UGH!) But I was told to wait to get your Masters as you won't be hired at entry level with a Masters and they don't want to pay.
I really hate the politics of the educational system. I just love to teach. Last year's class was SO AWESOME! We had a ball and most kids went up 2 levels on the state exam. I was in heaven. This year...it's trying my patience and I'm a bit frustrated, but...they can be taught. I just have to up my game a bit.0 -
Also, as a daughter of a teacher I can attest to how little funding there is for teachers to do extra things in their classroom. My mom made a lot of the teaching aids to use in the classroom. She liked music so she had different songs to help her students remember division steps, songs for grammar, a lot of things. So since she had to pay for it out of pocket it would help if teachers were being paid even a little bit more so that they could be able to fund these types of things without having to worry about paying for groceries or transportation and going bankrupt.0
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I'm an art teacher currently working as a K-12 substitute, and waiting for the next art teacher job to come open in my school district. I work in every grade, most recently I have worked in the places of second grade teachers, ESL (English as a second language) teachers, all grades of middle school, all grades of high school. During the day for many of the teachers I've subbed, there is maybe 30 minutes to eat lunch, maybe a 10 minute break, maybe a little more, maybe a little less. They attend weekly training for their district requirements. They are required to take continuing education classes (meaning continuing money out of their pocket or continuing student loans) to keep their teaching license up to date. They end up paying for advanced degrees (all that requiring continuing education coursework adds up) in a world where a teacher with a bachelors degree can do the same job...at entry level salary.
Teachers are mainly responsible for creating the lessons (the how-to, or if you're a crafter you would recognize it as similar to a tutorial) for their students. I have spent hours creating lessons, which I imagine gets easier over the years, but still, it does take time and energy.
All the teachers I know take work home to finish it. Either by choice or because there is not enough time during the school day. From what I can tell, their contracts, which decide the hours they're paid, require the teachers get to school before the students and stay after for what generally totals an hour, which equals an 8 hour day, not including the work they take home.
I have at times worked harder physically, but not non-stop, at a job (Linens N Things) making anywhere from $9-14 an hour as I rose from temporary to management. When I needed more training at LNT, the company sent me somewhere and they paid for it all.
I have never worked harder mentally or emotionally, or as non-stop at a job than I have while teaching. I have three boys of my own and can run a pretty tight ship, classroom management is not too hard for me, however add in one or two students with learning or behavior disabilities, and sometimes the same "good class" gets really difficult to manage, because the usually agreeable children feed off the one who, for example, has trouble with authority. Then there are the ones who complain a lot because they want to be "perfect" which to be honest, rarely happens in art, to the point that I'm more interested in imperfect art. Other subjects do expect perfection, I'm more interested in your problem solving skills.
This day I am home sick. If I had accepted a substitute job I would have made $120 today and worked my butt off and probably come home exhausted and more sick than I was (which is what happened last week.)
I had to chime in on this topic, I like to defend teachers, they work hard. I've been to a lot of schools and I have not seen even one lazy bad teacher. Even allegedly lazy bad teachers would need to work hard, because it's just a lot of work. Even making 30 students be quiet in unison long enough for the teacher to give instructions is a lot of work. ("You can't hear me if you are talking!") I worked as a church secretary for 7 years. THAT was an easy job and I still got a raise most years, are there any jobs where the workers don't ever get a raise? Oh I love a good rant.
But now I'm tired, so I think I'll go eat a bowl of vegetable soup.0 -
One thing I think people don't understand is that where you live makes a huge difference in what teachers are paid.
Where I grew up, a teacher without a master's degree started at $30,000 a year and with started at $35,000 and got annual raises no matter what. And where I grew up, $30,000 is still a decent chunk of change (I know this is not the case everywhere, but the COL there is extremely low even though it's a relatively well-to-do part of the country).
My father is a teacher and has been most of my life. He is not anywhere near the poorhouse. My daughter had a friend in elementary school whose mother was a teacher and her father was a police officer. They owned a $400,000 house in an area where that was a lot of money for a house.
But where I live now, teachers start at $18,000 and I don't think they get the kind of raises they do in my former state.
So when people from all over the country are comparing teacher salaries and conditions, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Some do very, very, very well. Others are living at the poverty level.0 -
But I will back out from this conversation. People who don't know where I teach just don't get it.
I love my job, I do my job the best I can and even when I am told to Eff Off by kids, I don't let it get to me...
Just like this conversation won't get to me because I know that every era needs a scapegoat...teachers are the scapegoat right now. That's fine. I just wish the complainers would come in and show me a better way...cause sometimes I'm at a loss.
I'm backing out with you! It's becoming depressing and frustrating and I for one have marking to do! ;-)0 -
I love that so many teachers a responding during the school day (as am I). My kids are in an elective right now and I am finishing lunch. I just hope for the rep of teachers everywhere that there are other good reasons why so many teachers can take time from their day to access MFP!!! :P0
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I have absolutely loved some of my kids teachers, and I have absolutely hated some of them too. But often enough, just like everything else, it's the bad apples that stick out and give everyone a bad name. I'll give some examples...
The best teacher I have ever met, in my little mind she is the best teacher in the whole world. She let the kids listen to music and get up and dance and play for at least 20 minutes each day, more when time was available. Everything that could be made into a comptetion or a a play or anything was, my kids loved her class and their grades and knowledge of the lessons taught reflected it. The school got rid of her because of her deviation of the "normal" learning processes (they also weren't fond of her sexual preference). But every lesson was taught and understood. She works for the middle school now though and all my kids will get to be in her class again.
Worst teacher - sent my kid home with 2 F's on her progress report because she didn't have time to grade all the papers (you can't take back an a** whooping, I was beyond pissed). My kid got terrible grades the whole year until the teacher had a death in the family and was gone the last 3 months of school, then my kid got straight A's again. Then my son gets her, the school won't allow me to switch teachers because of their policy. When I went for teacher conference she tells me that she doesn't have time to teach them. Really? How do you not have time, every single day, the other teachers seem to be pulling it off. She also tells me that this is the worst class she's ever had (she said the same thing about my daughters class) come on, it can't be the kids every year, she's the only common factor.
Not so bright teacher - my daughter is disabled, she has left side paralysis and tbi. She wears braces and falls a lot because her balanced is skewed. They had a class party at the skating rink, of course she wanted to go so I gave her extra quarters to play the games because she can't skate. I told them that she was not to skate alone, if she skated at all, it's dangerous and would be a HUGE liability to the school. The teacher decided that she could skate if she used her gait trainer too. Didn't go out there with her, just put wheels on her feet, and gave her more wheels to help stabilize herself and pushed her out onto a slick floor. So she biffed it, within seconds and now has a bruise big enough on her hip that it makes it uncomfortable to lay on that side.
So my suggestion would be to pay actual "here for the kids" teachers more, a lot more, like tons more, and weed out all the teachers that chose the profession for the summer vacations, because the bad ones always end up giving the good ones a bad name, no matter what proffesion you're in. And Kudos to all the teachers that are worth their weight in gold.0 -
My students are in specials and on my planning period/lunch break. So i guess I shouldn't take a break either.0
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UK teacher - 19.31 here!I love that so many teachers a responding during the school day (as am I). My kids are in an elective right now and I am finishing lunch. I just hope for the rep of teachers everywhere that there are other good reasons why so many teachers can take time from their day to access MFP!!! :P0 -
So my suggestion would be to pay actual "here for the kids" teachers more, a lot more, like tons more, and weed out all the teachers that chose the profession for the summer vacations, because the bad ones always end up giving the good ones a bad name, no matter what proffesion you're in. And Kudos to all the teachers that are worth their weight in gold.
AGREED!!!0 -
Wow, as a teacher I am shocked half of these things even came out of your mouth. I will say I am most shocked by your lack of correct grammar. For beating up on HS grads so much you would THINK you would at least know to not end a sentence in a preposistion! You do realize we do not get to CHOOSE what we teach. It is mandated by the states. I would love to teach students to write a proper research paper with correct grammar (maybe I'll teach you one day as well). However, this is not the luxury I have in my job. While we are throwing stones, please remember you will have students who struggle more, as you teach at a community college. Students who can study for themselves and score high on college tests go to universities and state schools. You think you would at least be grateful that the students you have are looking to better themselves instead of on the streets.First off, I am a teacher.
I teach in a community/technological college. I see the product of the American education system and all I can say is that if I worked on a production line and put out that kind of a product, I would be fired.
I enjoy teaching older students because they recognize the value of spelling and grammar as well as making a study schedule. They work hard and expect a lot from themselves.
The younger group, for the most part, have no clue what a study schedule is, expect to not have homework, can't spell, have no concept of capitalizing the first word of a sentence or using punctuation, and can't do simple math without a calculator. Additionally, they have no research skills, believe any of the Wiki sites are suitable for research papers, copy and paste without citations, and then wonder why I gave them an 'F' on their paper.
I have to re-teach every student who comes out of schools these days. I have to have them bring in calendars and create a study schedule. I have to explain to them how to take notes, how to do assignments, and how to study for tests. I still have students that will ask me what is on the tests because they can't seem to grasp an understanding of what is important and what isn't important, even when I stand up and say, "Now this is important, so pay attention."
They want every test to be a multiple choice test. They panic when they have to write out a paragraph for short answer essay. Half the time I have to find an interpreter to read their printing. They don't know how to write in cursive. Those that do write must be going on to be doctors because I sometimes have to ask who the paper belongs to or what it says.
They call me at all hours of the day, and sometimes at night, because everything is an 'emergency'. They can't follow the syllabus. Most don't hand in assignments on time and some even insist that the assignments are optional according to the school. If they were optional, would I have assigned them points and included the points in the final point count?
Few students coming out of school have logic or reasoning abilities. They can't read well enough to understand the material that is presented to them. Simple words stump them, so you can imagine what larger words associated with Anatomy and Physiology do to them. They can't form complete sentences and half their sentences make no sense.
I wouldn't worry so much if this was just one or two students coming out of highschool. Unfortunately, this has been about 95% of the students coming out of highschool. That's another thing: I put the number of points that they get correct on their test and they can't figure out the percentage that they got on the test. I have to do it for them!!
What people don't realize is that the ACT, PSAT, and SAT (tests used for college placement) have been dumbed-down so that the students today can get an acceptable score! Otherwise, there would only be Asian, Middle East, African, and European students in our colleges and universities.
Do I think that teachers deserve a raise? Not when they are producing the students that I have to re-teach every block.
The raises that teachers receive should be tied to how well their students do. Yes, there are students whose parents don't encourage them. Yes, there are students who don't want to crack open a book. I've had some of those as well. You motivate them. You talk with the parents and motivate them as well. If they are not interested in their child's education, then you talk to Social Service and Child Protection.
I homeschooled both my children from fifth grade on. Why? My daughter kept being passed on to the next grade even though she could not read, so I took the reins and pulled her out of school. She is an avid reader now and an electrician. My son kept getting beat up in fifth grade by a gang of girls. They didn't just beat up him, they beat up other boys as well. He ended up with a concussion and fractured ribs, so I pulled him out of school. This happened in the playground in front of playground monitors, by the way! He is now an honor student at Penn State. They both scored higher than children who went through public and private schooling on their placement tests.
We live in a society where knowledge is necessary to make a living, yet our students are not being educated well enough to prepare them well enough to make a living. They can't balance their check books, read, write, think for themselves, think logically, perform math, etc. They don't have the motivation to do anything other than what is asked of them. They need their hands held for just about everything. In Europe, adolescents are cognizant of the world and their place in it. In America, adolescents are cognizant of only themselves and what's in it for them.
I blame this on a school system who wants to make every child feel good. The every child is a winner concept is ridiculous because it makes children less motivated. Why excel if you are not going to be recognized for what you do? So every child produced will be mediocre at best and that is pretty much what I am seeing in the community colleges today.
Keep in mind, I have not attacked anyone on this thread. I discussed what I am seeing at the college level and why I don't support teachers receiving raises without proof that they deserve them. You, on the other hand, attacked me, personally. So please leave out the "While we are throwing stones...." phrase.0 -
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You can look at my profile, I'm kind of into sports. So understand where I'm coming from.
Teachers have become the scapegoats for the "Cut the Budget to The Bone Crowd." "They're failing" they cry. They say: "Throwing more money at the problem is not the answer!". Yet, they themselves don't have any answers. They don't even have an idea from another country that is apperantly kicking our collective *kitten* in education.
I don't see teachers asking for more money. I see teachers attempting to maintain their current level of compensation.
So what is the answer? I don't know what the answer is. My problem is we're not even looking for it. Because the question itself is a hard one to ask. What are our priorities as a society? I can tell you from TV ratings and how much professional athletes are paid, it's not education. Like the students whose parents value education do better in school. The countries and societies that are kicking our collective *kitten* in education....value education. Here in the US (there are lots of people here outside the US) we'll gripe about the cost of education until we realize that ignorance costs more, but by then it will be time to for the fiddler to rosin up his bow. (if anyone knows what a fiddle is by then)0 -
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UK teacher - 19.31 here!I love that so many teachers a responding during the school day (as am I). My kids are in an elective right now and I am finishing lunch. I just hope for the rep of teachers everywhere that there are other good reasons why so many teachers can take time from their day to access MFP!!! :P
UK Learning support Assistant here!0 -
I am all for teachers. But I am against the teachers union, and the NEA!0
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I was a biology/phsyical science high school teacher here in the State of Flori-duh. Its not necessarily the teachers that are the problem its more of the Board of Education. No child left behind is a joke, it should be abolished. If a kid is 16 and is only taking learning as a joke and is more of a hands on guy, then he should be allowed to drop out. Secondly I also blame the parents. So many parents dont take part in there kids education. They expect the schools do everything.
Here in Florida, the Superintendent might last 4 to 8 years try to change the system, the look to get into politics. Then another Superintendent is hired and says I have a new path to increase learning. The cycle continues and continues.
Home schooling is okay but my big issue with it is that there are alot of errors in books and unless you are a professional in the field, you will not realize what you are reading is wrong and teach it and that can be a big issue with homeschooling. Then again there are plenty of errors in textbooks and teachers dont necessarily find them either.
I have a BS in Biology so if i see an error I can figure it out. I do not have a degree in education. I know plenty of hardworking teachers who put so much of their own money into it and dont get any rate of return on it except personal accomplishment when they actually see a student go above and beyond
I agree with this. The huge part of the problem is with school administrators, but I am also not a huge fan of many contemporary educational trends adopted by classroom teachers. Mixed ability grouping is one such trend du' jour that doesn't ring my chimes. That's why I favor lots of school choice.
And, yes, I agree that particularly in science, getting accurate textbooks is difficult. I don't like the introduction of creationist thinking in my science, but science by its very nature evolves along with new discoveries, so I don't like many traditional textbooks that present science as known fact.
I worked in health information sciences for 20 years and know that texts are very imperfect, and that a good subject background allows you to spot the errors and correct them before students integrate wrong information as fact.0 -
You think it's difficult to spend all day trying to get your kids to listen to you? Try that with 30 kids in a room, all day every day.
^ THIS THIS THIS. I'm exhausted enough with one kid for 3 hours in the evening before she goes to bed. If I had to deal with 30 for 8 hours and then spend my free time at home grading their work, I'd cry under my desk every day at lunch.
My mom works for the school district and so I've grown up close to the educational system. Teachers don't get paid nearly enough. And if people do want to throw the "babysitter" word around....well, when I was 12, I charged $5/hour to babysit a kid. So if we should pay teachers to "babysit" our children, well, that's $5/child/hour. I guess what a teacher DESERVES is $1200/day for a class of 30. Frankly, that's what it would take for me to "babysit" 30 kids a day for 8 hours straight.
ETA: Also - teachers are not going to be able to fix a kid that parents ruin. The home is the biggest teacher in a kids' life and they'll take what they learn there and act on it in school.0 -
This is just one of those subjects. there is no black/white. Everything is a shade of gray. I dated a 3rd grade teacher for a while. My sister is a teacher with a masters for a 30 grand job. My mother was a Para for years, and I worked in a highschool as a special ed para while I was in junior college.
The teacher I dated was always stressed out and a little crazy. She had the parent of one of her students stalking her because he thought she should like him. when she called the cops, they thought she was paranoid since her school was inner city. She made just enough to pay for a 2 bd/rm apartment and break even on her loans. My sister has a mountain of debt for that masters and I think it increased her salary by a grand. basically nothing. They both took home work every night, just because they weren't in the building doesn't mean they weren't working. I was in the school for 2 years as a para. i felt bad most of the time because our students were in the regular ed classes disruptive or not. Parents had filed lawsuits in the past because their kids were treated differently. Some of the special ed kids weren't an issue, but some were. We weren't allowed to remove them from the classroom without permission from an administrator. That means that if there was a tantrum, the whole class stopped until the VP got there to make his decision. This entire time the teacher can do nothing about the situation, they had to deal with it and whatever disruption it caused whether their kids learned anything that day or not.
No Student left behind = No teacher left standing
********BUT****** I also remember my second grade teacher to this day, almost 30 years later. the last day of school I was chosen ( over the year I had acumulated the most "Check" marks. Plus I wasn't very popular), along with another kid (Brian C.)to clean the room. She lined the class up against the wall and made the 2 of us get on our hands and knees and crawl around the floor picking up all the little bits of paper or whatever was there. The other 20 something kids spent the entire time watching and laughing. Absolutely fabulous teacher there!! My mom told me last year that after I left that building for the middle school they had a problem with that lady. the district decided that teachers needed to rotate so she was being moved to the third grade. So the kids in her class that year would be in her class again the next year. The parents of EVERY kid went up to the district office and threatened to pull their kids from the school and go private. THE DISTRICT STILL COULDN'T FIRE HER!! Something in the union contract required that she receive some type of "re-training" before disciplinary action was taken. So she was kept as the second grade teacher and was able to teach for a couple more years until she retired.
Just like most organizations, it's the crapy few that people remember. So the rest of the neighborhood only remembers how they were protected and forms a crappy opinion that "They must all be that way". It sucks, but it's human nature and it will never go away.0 -
I live in Canada and my husband is a high school teacher. He is also the head of a department. In Canada, teachers are paid fairly well - starting salaries are in the mid-30s and by the time you put in 10-15 years, you can earn 90K. However, no one pays for a teacher's education - certainly not their 4 year bachelor's degree from a university and definitely not the 1-2 years additional schooling at teacher's college. Nor are any of their special qualification courses paid for. Those all come out of pocket but are required to move up the ladder.
My husband works at home for an hour each morning getting ready for his day - marking papers, setting curriculum, etc. He then heads to school to arrive an hour before the kids arrive and works there until his classes start. He teaches from 9-3:30. He teaches four seventy-minute classes to a combined 120 kids. On his prep period he works. During his lunch he often works - calling parents, dealing with students. After school, he's responsible for bus duty two nights a week and making sure the kids all get on their buses safely. On the days he's not doing that, he runs 2 extra-curricular programs - improv team and a songwriters club. These go until 5 pm. At least once a week he has a staff meeting that runs until 5:30. He NEVER gets home before 6 pm. He works another hour in the evening (at a minimum) marking more papers, getting ready for classes, dealing with his department, etc.
He works a couple hours a day over all holidays and usually writes curriculum and prepares his courses during our summers "off". At least once a month he is out all evening at an improv or songwriters club meet or competition. He's not paid anything extra for any of these things and the kids benefit greatly.
Are there teachers who do nothing and probably don't really deserve the pay they get? Yes, but that's true of every profession. In my experience, knowing my husband, his parents (who were both teachers), and all his friends, the vast majority are doing the best they can with what they are given (limited budgets, not always great support from their principals, boards, difficult students who take away from the rest, etc).
Most professions though don't have to put up with some of what I've seen my husband have to deal with. He is a good teacher, one of those that students come back to visit years later, name their kids after, tell him he's the reason they continued in school or pursued a degree in his subject, etc. He CARES. And yet even as good a teacher as he is, he's had to deal with being hit by students, sworn at by them, breaking up fights, dealing with massive disrespect in the classroom, parents who swear/yell/hit, etc. It's amazing the things parents think they can get away with because they view themselves as paying a teacher's salary.
And just to make clear, I am also a parent with a child in the public school system and I cannot imagine treating anyone the way I have heard of teachers being treated over the years. A woman (another *good* teacher) in my husband's department was actually physically assaulted by a parent last year.
I don't think most teachers hate/complain about their jobs. What they're usually saying is that if they didn't love teaching or the students or want to be there, the money and the holidays sure as heck wouldn't be enough to keep them around. It's hard to keep doing your best when most people just want to bash you and think they *own* you in some way that makes it okay for them to make any sort of remark about what you do for a living
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