Your thighs on cheese... HAHAHA!
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How nice. I am 68, I work full time. I work out two hours a day at least 5 days a week, my mother lived to 90, my father who ate a lot of meat lived to 78, my wife who is vegan, had a vegetarian mother who lived to 92, a father who ate meat who live to his sixties, and.... do I see a pattern here. We all die sometime. The question is how fast do you want to die.0
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How nice. I am 68, I work full time. I work out two hours a day at least 5 days a week, my mother lived to 90, my father who ate a lot of meat lived to 78, my wife who is vegan, had a vegetarian mother who lived to 92, a father who ate meat who live to his sixties, and.... do I see a pattern here. We all die sometime. The question is how fast do you want to die.
I hae no desire to make it to my 90s. I think its funny that if its something that will kill me how am i showing NO signs of this. How did my gg make it to 99 only to die in a car accident in great health?
oh an once again they all died from things that have nothing to do with what they ate.0 -
I eat meat and cheese. I even put cheese in my apple pies. Oh the horror. mmmmmm0
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How nice. I am 68, I work full time. I work out two hours a day at least 5 days a week, my mother lived to 90, my father who ate a lot of meat lived to 78, my wife who is vegan, had a vegetarian mother who lived to 92, a father who ate meat who live to his sixties, and.... do I see a pattern here. We all die sometime. The question is how fast do you want to die.
I hae no desire to make it to my 90s. I think its funny that if its something that will kill me how am i showing NO signs of this. How did my gg make it to 99 only to die in a car accident in great health?
oh an once again they all died from things that have nothing to do with what they ate.
If you don't want to live, then you are on a perfect diet. The point I was trying to make (but obviously failed) was that information about your family, as well as about mine, is anecdotal. It means nothing. It is not a study. Studies, following general populations, indicate that eating meat results in chronic diseases and shortens life. Of course, there are also some studies about SPECIFIC populations such as Inuit and Lapplanders who have a heavy meat diet but are not genetically predisposed towards colon cancer or heart disease. These populations can get away with it, but they are a tiny, tiny minority. Over thousands of years living in a hostile environment, these specific populations have become genetically altered to be able to tolerate a meat diet. Humans are herbivores, and as a species cannot tolerate large amounts of meat. There are many,many studies that show this going back to 1948. Here are some of the important ones:
http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/vegetarians-live-longer.html
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/07/nutrition-advice-from-the-china-study/
http://www.framinghamheartstudy.org/about/history.html
Anatomically as well, our bodies are the bodies of herivores. Our dentition, mandibular structure, intestines, etc. are those of herbivores, not carnivores. While it is true that a herbivore species such as mouse can tolerate meat, it can only do so for a short time without developing chronic life shortening diseases.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1743-7075/6/43
The science is strong showing meat, particularly in the portions eaten by modern Americans is harmful. Our ancestors probably lived on a mostly vegetarian diet, occasionally supplementing that with worms, insects, grubs and carrion. We are not meant to eat meat (and probably cheese as well), and for most of us a diet of animal products will shorten our lives.0 -
Honestly, I do believe there is more to it than just what you eat. There are also heriditary issues to consider. My boyfriend (who is 33) went to high school with a guy that was in fantastic shape and ate good daily - but has been dead for years due to a heart attack. To argue which diet is better (vegan, vegetarian, carnivore, etc) is ridiculous in my opinion, especially since the chances of changing the oposing side's mind is almost zero to one. To each their own. I will never try to go completely vegetarian. I like meat and cheese and yogurt, and many other foods vegans don't eat. Furthermore, it's my body, so if I want to stuff that bad "saturated fat and cholesterol" into my body once a day in the form of a less than 1 oz of string cheese, then so be it. All I know is I am continuing to lose weight at the moment, so something's working.
I could eat what some may consider a "perfect diet" and exercise exactly as prescribed but still get some type of cancer by the time I'm 40 and die before I'm 45. As someone mentioned earlier, we're all going to die eventually. Of course, I hope it's much later down the road rather than sooner, and that's what I'm making a concious effort to cut back on certain foods and change my overall lifestyle. I'm not going to cut out things I truly enjoy (in moderation) because someone preaches to me about the horrors of stuffing my face with those bad maconutrients. And this is coming from a HUGE animal lover who donates money to various organizations and charities to help homeless animals, etc. While I love animals and think someone should be set on fire if they torture or abuse an animal, it won't stop me from eating cow and chicken or some pig from time to time. People in the stone ages ate what they could find. Other animals eat other animals. It's just the food chain in my eyes. As long as I don't see Betsy the cow and pet her before she turns into my sirloin steak, I'm okay with that. I'm sure I'll be ripped to pieces and called all kinds of names now because I have a different viewpoint than someone else. Opinions are like a**holes; everybody's got one.0 -
All I gotta say is...
DEATH BY CHEESE0 -
All this talk of what "our ancestors" ate... I just have a hard time wrapping myself around the caveman diet when this was their ideal woman.
Quite frankly... I prefer my thighs on cheese. :laugh:
On the other hand, the cuisine enjoyed by ancient Greeks was bread, wine, cheese, meats, and fruits and vegetables.
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The whole thing is a joke IMO. As with all things, moderation.... :smokin:
What about crack??? Ok, so long as it's in moderation?
Sure, why not. Same with drinking. I am not capable of drinking in moderation, but some people can, so they can do it. If you can smoke crack in moderation, then hey, thats great.
Stupid analogy by the way. To compare cheese to crack is beyond idiotic.
All the vegans I know are either addicts or recovering addicts (and please make sure you all pay attention to the part "I KNOW" not all in general) One of them said, yeah, I was a vegan so I could shoot up heroine and look down on people for eating a cheese burger.
interesting.. im a vegan myself and an addict in and out of recovery unfortunately..i dont do it to make myself feel better about the whole heroin thing more to try and be as healthy as possible. however i must say that when i use i eat HORRIBLEY if i eat anything at all.0 -
@April522 who said, "As long as I don't see Betsy the cow and pet her before she turns into my sirloin steak, I'm okay with that." This statement suggests awareness of Betsy's suffering. It just makes me feel sad to read this. No name-calling here. Just my honest reaction.
I'm not going to argue the health advantages of one diet over another. I am a vegan because I feel it's the most compassionate, environmentally-sensitive way to feed myself. The cheese and veal industries are intimately linked. I think veal is the most repugnant of all meats, and I don't want to subsidize the practice of making calves anemic and slaughtering them as babies by eating cheese.
As a vegan, I am not okay with many of the public campaigns, including this PCRM one, designed to convince people that eating animal products means you will get fat. There are fat vegans--I know because I am one. And there are slim omnivores. Calories are calories and if they taste good and you overeat them you will get fat. End of story.0 -
I'm not going to argue the health advantages of one diet over another. I am a vegan because I feel it's the most compassionate, environmentally-sensitive way to feed myself. The cheese and veal industries are intimately linked. I think veal is the most repugnant of all meats, and I don't want to subsidize the practice of making calves anemic and slaughtering them as babies by eating cheese.
As a vegan, I am not okay with many of the public campaigns, including this PCRM one, designed to convince people that eating animal products means you will get fat. There are fat vegans--I know because I am one. And there are slim omnivores. Calories are calories and if they taste good and you overeat them you will get fat. End of story.
This ^^...!!! 1000 times this.0 -
I'm not giving up cheese what ever they say! Cheese made with Canadian Milk....hummmmmmmmm.0
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How nice. I am 68, I work full time. I work out two hours a day at least 5 days a week, my mother lived to 90, my father who ate a lot of meat lived to 78, my wife who is vegan, had a vegetarian mother who lived to 92, a father who ate meat who live to his sixties, and.... do I see a pattern here. We all die sometime. The question is how fast do you want to die.
I hae no desire to make it to my 90s. I think its funny that if its something that will kill me how am i showing NO signs of this. How did my gg make it to 99 only to die in a car accident in great health?
oh an once again they all died from things that have nothing to do with what they ate.
If you don't want to live, then you are on a perfect diet. The point I was trying to make (but obviously failed) was that information about your family, as well as about mine, is anecdotal. It means nothing. It is not a study. Studies, following general populations, indicate that eating meat results in chronic diseases and shortens life. Of course, there are also some studies about SPECIFIC populations such as Inuit and Lapplanders who have a heavy meat diet but are not genetically predisposed towards colon cancer or heart disease. These populations can get away with it, but they are a tiny, tiny minority. Over thousands of years living in a hostile environment, these specific populations have become genetically altered to be able to tolerate a meat diet. Humans are herbivores, and as a species cannot tolerate large amounts of meat. There are many,many studies that show this going back to 1948. Here are some of the important ones:
http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/vegetarians-live-longer.html
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/07/nutrition-advice-from-the-china-study/
http://www.framinghamheartstudy.org/about/history.html
Anatomically as well, our bodies are the bodies of herivores. Our dentition, mandibular structure, intestines, etc. are those of herbivores, not carnivores. While it is true that a herbivore species such as mouse can tolerate meat, it can only do so for a short time without developing chronic life shortening diseases.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1743-7075/6/43
The science is strong showing meat, particularly in the portions eaten by modern Americans is harmful. Our ancestors probably lived on a mostly vegetarian diet, occasionally supplementing that with worms, insects, grubs and carrion. We are not meant to eat meat (and probably cheese as well), and for most of us a diet of animal products will shorten our lives.
so i might make it to 80 insted of 90 oh noes setting foot outside our house shortens our lives to.0 -
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so i might make it to 80 insted of 90 oh noes setting foot outside our house shortens our lives to.
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You are probably texting. I didn't understand this.0 -
How nice. I am 68, I work full time. I work out two hours a day at least 5 days a week, my mother lived to 90, my father who ate a lot of meat lived to 78, my wife who is vegan, had a vegetarian mother who lived to 92, a father who ate meat who live to his sixties, and.... do I see a pattern here. We all die sometime. The question is how fast do you want to die.
I hae no desire to make it to my 90s. I think its funny that if its something that will kill me how am i showing NO signs of this. How did my gg make it to 99 only to die in a car accident in great health?
oh an once again they all died from things that have nothing to do with what they ate.
If you don't want to live, then you are on a perfect diet. The point I was trying to make (but obviously failed) was that information about your family, as well as about mine, is anecdotal. It means nothing. It is not a study. Studies, following general populations, indicate that eating meat results in chronic diseases and shortens life. Of course, there are also some studies about SPECIFIC populations such as Inuit and Lapplanders who have a heavy meat diet but are not genetically predisposed towards colon cancer or heart disease. These populations can get away with it, but they are a tiny, tiny minority. Over thousands of years living in a hostile environment, these specific populations have become genetically altered to be able to tolerate a meat diet. Humans are herbivores, and as a species cannot tolerate large amounts of meat. There are many,many studies that show this going back to 1948. Here are some of the important ones:
http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/vegetarians-live-longer.html
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/07/nutrition-advice-from-the-china-study/
http://www.framinghamheartstudy.org/about/history.html
Anatomically as well, our bodies are the bodies of herivores. Our dentition, mandibular structure, intestines, etc. are those of herbivores, not carnivores. While it is true that a herbivore species such as mouse can tolerate meat, it can only do so for a short time without developing chronic life shortening diseases.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1743-7075/6/43
The science is strong showing meat, particularly in the portions eaten by modern Americans is harmful. Our ancestors probably lived on a mostly vegetarian diet, occasionally supplementing that with worms, insects, grubs and carrion. We are not meant to eat meat (and probably cheese as well), and for most of us a diet of animal products will shorten our lives.
so i might make it to 80 insted of 90 oh noes setting foot outside our house shortens our lives to.
Are you saying (difficlult to understand) that you might be super safe and live to 80 or 90 by refusing to leave your house?
First, I don't know if that is even true. What are you planning to eat?
Second, I thought you didn't want to live to be 90? So which is it?
Third, if you are comparing lockling yourself in your house, which presumably is a sacrifice, to eating vegan, which you see as a sacrifice, you are way off base. Eating vegan is not an awful thing which you have to have a lot of guts to try. It is a very healthy and tasty way to live. And also it is cruelty free. I always felt that humans were a pathetic species, praying for grace and mercy for most of their evolution, while at the same time refusing to show grace or mercy to creatures which they have control over. The ultimate in hypocracy. Why would anyone want to show you mercy if you believe in eating those who are within your control? The moral component of veganism is to me more important than the health component.
Finally, when you are healthy you feel well and have energy, When I used to eat meat, I felt tired and loggy. Besides tasting better, vegan food makes you feel better. (I happen to be lucky that my wife is a gourmet vegan cook.)0 -
I'm with You! I love cheese...all sorts of cheeseI love cheese and will never give it up. But in saying that, it is also hard to eat in moderation. A "moderate" serving of cheese is the size of 2 dice cubes, why the hell eat cheese if I am going to that much of it. I would rather go with out meat than cheese any day.0 -
The whole thing is a joke IMO. As with all things, moderation.... :smokin:
What about crack??? Ok, so long as it's in moderation?
By definition, crack isn't moderation. It's free base cocaine straight into the circulation.
Cocaine itself is a legal (though highly controlled) drug. If your kid needs stitches and they dab on a medicine to numb it a little before they inject the novocaine, there is probably some cocaine in that topical concoction. But in moderation
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The whole thing is a joke IMO. As with all things, moderation.... :smokin:
What about crack??? Ok, so long as it's in moderation?
By definition, crack isn't moderation. It's free base cocaine straight into the circulation.
Cocaine itself is a legal (though highly controlled) drug. If your kid needs stitches and they dab on a medicine to numb it a little before they inject the novocaine, there is probably some cocaine in that topical concoction. But in moderation
CHEESE IS THE SAME AS OPIUM, ALL YOU LITTLE ADDICTS!
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S09586946080019700 -
Sure, why not. Same with drinking. I am not capable of drinking in moderation, but some people can, so they can do it. If you can smoke crack in moderation, then hey, thats great.
Stupid analogy by the way. To compare cheese to crack is beyond idiotic.
All the vegans I know are either addicts or recovering addicts (and please make sure you all pay attention to the part "I KNOW" not all in general) One of them said, yeah, I was a vegan so I could shoot up heroine and look down on people for eating a cheese burger.
Someone's playing a little D-FENSE!
Anyway, back to my beyond idiotic comparison: Some of us plant eaters think the way you guys talk about your meat and cheese sounds pretty similar to drug addicts. The game we play (an I'm letting you in on a little secret here) is to substitute whatever animal product you are defending be it beef, pork, or in this case cheese with a drug.
Then when people talk about it, we laugh.
"I love my _____ and I can't live without it"
"If anyone told me to stop _________ completely I'd call them a quack"
"maybe you can't handle ______, but I can. I'm fine and you don't know what your talking about"
Do I need to go on?
Anyway, you all eat whatever you want. Go on calling vegans drug addicts (they are pretty sensitive you know) and I hope that in the end everybody is right! I hope that there are no major health consequences for consuming animals. I hope that the #1 killer in the US (heart disease) really doesn't have anything to do with dietary cholesterol intake or saturated fat.
Maybe plant eaters are way too extreme and everyone can be healthy with their "moderation"
I wish you all nothing but the best with whatever health plan you follow!
lol that's EXACTLY what I think of when I hear people talking about their meat eating. Btw, I've been vegan for 7 years, veg for 7 years before that which makes up 2/3 of my life and it has always been my personal choice. I am not an addict of any sort, if anything veganism has taught me to respect what I put into my body and actually think about what that is. That being said, if you want to eat cheese, or shoot heroine for that matter, that's your personal choice!0 -
The whole thing is a joke IMO. As with all things, moderation.... :smokin:
What about crack??? Ok, so long as it's in moderation?
By definition, crack isn't moderation. It's free base cocaine straight into the circulation.
Cocaine itself is a legal (though highly controlled) drug. If your kid needs stitches and they dab on a medicine to numb it a little before they inject the novocaine, there is probably some cocaine in that topical concoction. But in moderation
Ok drug talk... Here we go. Free base cocaine and crack are two separate things!
Free base is cocaine freed from impurities (through a treatment, google that **** cause I ain't helping you do this) and then heated to produce vapors for inhalation. When you create freebase you neutralize the HCI, leaving you with pure cocaine.
Crack is typically part cocaine, part baking soda (or fish scale) and a little water heated to form crystals, which you then smoke and inhale.
Cocaine is a schedule II narcotic and as such is legal (though highly regulated) just as you said and is used as a topical anesthetic.0 -
Your reaction would be an incorrect one. By that statement, I mean that I become attached to animals every easily. If I have time to "bond" with my dinner before eating, I'd be less likely to eat it.@April522 who said, "As long as I don't see Betsy the cow and pet her before she turns into my sirloin steak, I'm okay with that." This statement suggests awareness of Betsy's suffering. It just makes me feel sad to read this. No name-calling here. Just my honest reaction.
Just because I love animals and do become attached to them easily does not mean I will refrain from eating meat. That's my choice.0 -
Your reaction would be an incorrect one. By that statement, I mean that I become attached to animals every easily. If I have time to "bond" with my dinner before eating, I'd be less likely to eat it.@April522 who said, "As long as I don't see Betsy the cow and pet her before she turns into my sirloin steak, I'm okay with that." This statement suggests awareness of Betsy's suffering. It just makes me feel sad to read this. No name-calling here. Just my honest reaction.
Just because I love animals and do become attached to them easily does not mean I will refrain from eating meat. That's my choice.
To me, your choice seems like cognitive dissonance. Can you please explain to me how your ignorance of the obvious fact that an animal was murdered and is now sitting on your plate makes you feel good, even though you you damn well know what took place to get that meat there? I truly dislike hunters, however I respect their attitude more than yours.0 -
Your reaction would be an incorrect one. By that statement, I mean that I become attached to animals every easily. If I have time to "bond" with my dinner before eating, I'd be less likely to eat it.@April522 who said, "As long as I don't see Betsy the cow and pet her before she turns into my sirloin steak, I'm okay with that." This statement suggests awareness of Betsy's suffering. It just makes me feel sad to read this. No name-calling here. Just my honest reaction.
Just because I love animals and do become attached to them easily does not mean I will refrain from eating meat. That's my choice.
Calling my honest reaction to your original statement an 'incorrect one', when I am conveying my feelings is quite presumptuous. I feel sad for the animals you eat. I also feel sad you feel a lack empathy for the animals you eat. There's no need to tell me that I am 'incorrect' to feel or think a certain way. I just do.0 -
To me, your choice seems like cognitive dissonance. Can you please explain to me how your ignorance of the obvious fact that an animal was murdered and is now sitting on your plate makes you feel good, even though you you damn well know what took place to get that meat there? I truly dislike hunters, however I respect their attitude more than yours.
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It's not murder.
To me, your choice seems like cognitive dissonance. Can you please explain to me how your ignorance of the obvious fact that an animal was murdered and is now sitting on your plate makes you feel good, even though you you damn well know what took place to get that meat there? I truly dislike hunters, however I respect their attitude more than yours.
mur·der [mur-der]
noun
1. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).0 -
if someone can explain something to me, please do it. Without offending anyone:
I eat clean and most things in moderataion. Life is too short in a sense to ban something like cheese or chocolate or Insert guilty food pleasure here.
That being said, I have an acquaintance of mine who now turned vegan and all she does it gets on her soap box about how much weight she is losing (she is thin to begin with) doesnt eat cheese, only vegetables and carbs and no dairy and works out for 2 hours a day and has seen so much improvement. I cannot understand this concept for the life of me.
I eat red meat maybe once or twice a month, eat lean proteins, low fat dairy, few carbs, and lots of fruits and veggies. Who is right here and who is wrong on the "healthy way to live"?
There really is no right or wrong. As long as your eating those things in moderation and she is getting enough nutrition from her food your both healthy. Your cholesterol might be higher and you have a greater chance and developing heart disease but other than that your both healthy. Exercise and moderation.
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The whole thing is a joke IMO. As with all things, moderation.... :smokin:
What about crack??? Ok, so long as it's in moderation?
By definition, crack isn't moderation. It's free base cocaine straight into the circulation.
Cocaine itself is a legal (though highly controlled) drug. If your kid needs stitches and they dab on a medicine to numb it a little before they inject the novocaine, there is probably some cocaine in that topical concoction. But in moderation
CHEESE IS THE SAME AS OPIUM, ALL YOU LITTLE ADDICTS!
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0958694608001970
I love opium...i mean cheese. 0 -
Unless she is watching her diet with a very serious eye, and probably taking some nutritional supplements (B12 and iron at least), she (like all vegans) is putting herself at risk of serious nutritional deficiencies.
Humans are omnivores. We are not designed to get all of the nutrients we need from plants, the way that cows (ruminants) are, nor are we designed to only digest meat (like, say, cats). Your diet is healthier because it has the potential to provide all of the essential nutrients you need without supplementation or rigorous balancing.
While I agree that some vegans can have issues with nutritional deficiency, so can some omnivores. If all you eat is junkfood every day, you will have nutritional problems.
I am a vegan and just got my blood work back. I don't pay particularly special attention to my diet and I take a children's multi-vitamin daily. My levels are perfect -- iron, b12, protein. I'm as healthy as I've ever been. And despite not losing a lot of scale weight my cholesterol and trycliderides have also gone down.
Eating a vegan diet is very simple and not at all difficult.
However... living a vegan lifestyle is very different than eating a plant based diet. Which is what caddymatt was trying to distinguish himself from. He's a very inspirational person. He has lost a lot of weight and gotten healthier by adopting a plant-based diet.
However, he does not classify himself as vegan and that is OK.
This.
Humans can easily survive and THRIVE on a vegan diet. We can get ALL of our nutrients from a plant-based diet. Even B12! If we didn't have to wash our produce so thouroughly due to all the trash in our environment (pesticides, fertilizers, etc.), we would get the B12 there; it is found in the soil. So, it's only because humans have screwed that up that we can't get ALL of our nutrients from a plant-based diet without supplements. But, there are still plenty of ways to get ALL the nutrients you need on a vegan diet without tracking every nutrient you consume and taking multiple pills. So, I think it's pure idiocy to say that all vegans are putting themselves at risk of serious nutritional deficiencies. No, very few are. Just like very few omnivores are.
100% agree! Except there are no such things as omnivores. Herbivores eat most, or all vegetables. Carnivores eat mostly meat, or all meat. A mouse can eat meat and a wofl can eat berries. I have yet to hear a good definition of an omnivore. Eventually, a herbivore, such as a human who eats too much meat will develop a chronic disease. A true carnivore never will, even if it eats hundreds of times as much cholesterol as normal.
Good point!!!0 -
Cheese is the best food ever. Period.0
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Why do we have to behave like other animals, and limit ourselves to only plants or meat? :huh:100% agree! Except there are no such things as omnivores. Herbivores eat most, or all vegetables. Carnivores eat mostly meat, or all meat. A mouse can eat meat and a wofl can eat berries. I have yet to hear a good definition of an omnivore. Eventually, a herbivore, such as a human who eats too much meat will develop a chronic disease. A true carnivore never will, even if it eats hundreds of times as much cholesterol as normal.0 -
Cheese is the best food ever. Period.
Steak would like to have a word with cheese over this false claim.0
This discussion has been closed.
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