Are you in a Low Carb diet? You need to read this
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I will stop low carbing (Paleo Style) when someone can PROVE to me that eating Proteins, Fats and often times 3 or 4 servings of vegetables at one meal and getting my treats from fruit on occasion is unhealthy..............then and only then will I stop eating this way.
Now excuse me while I go enjoy my afternoon tea and a grapefruit.
Not trying to convince you... but I am curious what would PROVE to you that it is unhealthy to have a severely restricted carb diet, for long term (90+ days).
Who would you believe?
Well since I have SEVERE Metabolic Disease and my Endocrinologist is one of the TOP and Best Endo's in this country and I was told the ONLY way to keep my hormones in line due to PCOS, Thyroid and Diabetes issues - i HAVE to keep my carbs controlled.
Anything over 80 carbs a day and I am gaining weight like a helium fills a balloon.
Totally justified in YOUR case, or anyone that has to do this for medical reasons.
So is it unjustified that I choose to eat low-carb (50-100g a day) despite having good health and physical fitness already? My markers were good on high-carb, but now they are great on low-carb because I went from slightly overweight to normal body weight and feel more energized during the day.0 -
Hummm okay...
We know the long term effects of eating refined sugar and wheat don't we?
It amazes me that people are so addicted to this junk that they will do anything to disprove low carb.
I've maintained this lifestyle of over 13 years with only some MINOR set backs.
My dad no longer is insulin dependent from type II from low carb. And he had lost all signs of the cardic problems that he had prior. He's been maintaining nicely as well. My brother and I were pulled back from the brink of Type II when we started this lifestyle (my brother over 20 years ago). All three of us have excellent labs. My father's cardiologist is baffled.
These researchers are so determined to continue to prove that the world is flat they will put out any study to show the world is flat.
Shame on them for justifying this process food dependent disease creating diet to the world.0 -
Here's my acecdotal evidence about a low carb diet: I lost a lot of weight and: my body was soft, I had migranes, I was b!tchy (even more than God made me naturally), I no longer had tummy aches. When I went back on: I had no migranes, I was normal b!tchy, I gained the weight back, every time I ate a dinner roll I thought the creature from the movie "Aliens" was going to pop out of my stomach. What I learned: my doctor was right, I'm allergic to gluten and as long as wheat is not a normal part of my lifestyle I can eat anything and maintain a healthy weight as long as I'm calorie conscious. However, if I eat the same things with wheat I don't process it properly and my rear grows like the grinch's heart. Low carb, moderate carb, there's a reason why it works for some people and not for others. Weight loss boils down to a combination of calorie control and find the correct mix of macros for your body.0
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I agree with you, "low" as in compared to what?
I may eat 100 g per day but my overall food intake that 100 g might be 10% Carb 40% fat and 50% protein. That seems like low carb to me.
My understanding was that if you lower carb % and increase fat % you might cause your body to try to use more fat as energy versus carbs. I've been doing 20% Carb, 40% Fat, 40% protein for a week now. I've never felt or had more energy. Seems to work for me, now I'll see if I get results from it and for how long.Thermodynamically there is no difference - 4 cals per gram of protein or carbs.
However, in the real world and avoiding hunger pangs/blood sugar bounces (where on craves carb based food) a low carb diet will often help this. The main thing in dieting is over eating and the lack of large insulin releases when on a lower carb diet often prevents over eating and many find it easier. What is more, low carb can be sub 20g a day all the way up to 100-150g a day. There is no set 'low' carb diet.
Which creates an issue - studies will not show all the variables it looks at it in a black and white way, not in any shades of grey.0 -
Hummm okay...
We know the long term effects of eating refined sugar and wheat don't we?
It amazes me that people are so addicted to this junk that they will do anything to disprove low carb.
I've maintained this lifestyle of over 13 years with only some MINOR set backs.
My dad no longer is insulin dependent from type II from low carb. And he had lost all signs of the cardic problems that he had prior. He's been maintaining nicely as well. My brother and I were pulled back from the brink of Type II when we started this lifestyle (my brother over 20 years ago). All three of us have excellent labs. My father's cardiologist is baffled.
These researchers are so determined to continue to prove that the world is flat they will put out any study to show the world is flat.
Shame on them for justifying this process food dependent disease creating diet to the world.
Your father's cardiologist should be talking to some of the cardiologists at Washington University in St Louis. A controlled carb lifestyle with high fat, moderate protein and controlled carbs (fruit and vegetable carbs).
With eating as natural as possible, the body will heal itself. I have a family member that had a heart attack and CHD, high cholesterol, etc. Went on the Paleo lifestyle and within 6 months healed his body to where there is no evidence that he had high cholesterol, the scarring from his heart attack is gone and all blood work is better than it has been in a long, long time.......0 -
Mncardiojunki, it is not the researches but the processed food manufactures. They are behind of everything.:explode:Hummm okay...
We know the long term effects of eating refined sugar and wheat don't we?
It amazes me that people are so addicted to this junk that they will do anything to disprove low carb.
I've maintained this lifestyle of over 13 years with only some MINOR set backs.
My dad no longer is insulin dependent from type II from low carb. And he had lost all signs of the cardic problems that he had prior. He's been maintaining nicely as well. My brother and I were pulled back from the brink of Type II when we started this lifestyle (my brother over 20 years ago). All three of us have excellent labs. My father's cardiologist is baffled.
These researchers are so determined to continue to prove that the world is flat they will put out any study to show the world is flat.
Shame on them for justifying this process food dependent disease creating diet to the world.0 -
So what you are saying is .... the EGG did come before the TURKEY. Sweet!My intention for posting this study from Stanford, was to give another piece of information to low-carb dieters, so that they can better make a decision.
I am concerned at a personal level, that some low-carb dieters are going to extremes that may be unhealthy, as the study quotes from several medical associations.
However, I am not going to try to convince anyone here of not doing low carbs; several years ago, experimenting like many with diets, I did try the low carb diet.
If I had been informed at the time, as the study shows, that weight reduction is not improved by a low-carb diet, I would not have tried it.
I just wished that MFP or similar had been available before !
MFP gives me the opportunity to reduce weight, while keeping a Balanced diet. No need for low carbs, or low protein, or any extreme diet.
Concentrating in only the carbs, I would be missing the whole picture. Now that I use MFP, I also monitor Sodium, Fiber, Cholesterol, Fat.
Again, that is my way and I wish everyone the best of luck with their diets ! :bigsmile:
I am happy to have the study out, and everyone can make their own decision.
Disease started to show it's face when agriculture was developed(carbs). Before then, there was no disease.
First Taubes, now Paleo nonsense. Do you have anything to support this?
And look at this one and look how many carbs they were eating
Paleolithic nutrition revisited: A twelve-year retrospective on its nature and implications. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (1997) 51, 207±216
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=eaton paleolithic nutrtion&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC0QFjAB&url=http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/EvolutionPaleolithic/Eaton%20Paleo%20Nutri%20Review%20EJCN.pdf&ei=7IRGT-_OHoa6twfqwOX6DQ&usg=AFQjCNH6-2HLdOBhcmNuFpB6W1ck9IRLxA&cad=rja
like your ASP nonsense, and your "protein increases insulin" ?? i got to go to school we'll talk about this later.
Yup ASP is nonsense
Metabolic response of Acylation Stimulating Protein to an oral fat load. November 1989 The Journal of Lipid Research, 30, 1727-1733.
"ASP appears to be the most potent stimulant of triglyceride synthesis yet described"
www.jlr.org/content/30/11/1727.full.pdf
and protein isn't insulinogenic at all, unless it is
Scroll down to table 4 for the results
Holt Et al. An insulin index of foods: the insulin demand generated by 1000-kJ portions of common foods. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 66, 1264-1276
http://www.ajcn.org/content/66/5/1264.full.pdf+html
The acute effects of four protein meals on insulin, glucose, appetite and energy intake in lean men. British Journal of Nutrition (2010), 104 : pp 1241-1248
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=1&fid=7912922&jid=BJN&volumeId=104&issueId=08&aid=7912920&bodyId=&membershipNumber=&societyETOCSession=
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OMG I am very concerned. It's getting hot and piratey up in here.As you can see from these two graphs there is a correlation between the rise in carbohydrate intake and the rise in obesity. Is it just a coincidence that both carbohydrate consumption and obesity rose significantly from the 1976-1980 range up until the 2000s?
http://www.cdc.gov/NCHS/data/hestat/obesity_adult_07_08/obesity_adult_07_08.pdf (Figure 2 - Obesity rates)
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5304a3.htm (Figures 1 & 2 - macronutrient intake)
why yes, yes it is! hehe0 -
As someone who has done both low carb and "normal" carb low calorie diets, I can attest to the fact that you lose weight a LOT faster on a low carb diet. In 1.5 months I could have easily lost as much weight as I have lost in 4 months on my "normal" carb low calorie diet. The problem, however, is that low carb diets don’t provide the education needed to keep the weight off. Therefore I, and many of my fellow low carb dieters, have ended up putting the weight back on. Hence my current low calorie approach....
That said, all of the theories behind low carb diets make perfect sense to me. Back in the day before ovens, refrigerators, and genetically modified foods people ate what was available to them; this meant nutrient and fiber (complex carbohydrates) dense veggies and fruits only when they were in season (and I might add that today's genetically modified versions of these fruits and veggies contain a lot more sugar) and meat (which was leaner because it roamed free) when they could hunt and catch it. There was no bread and no pasta...Simple carbs simply didn’t exist. This, it makes sense to me, is how our bodies were designed to eat and explains why low carb diets work so well. Unfortunately, it is a lifestyle that is difficult, if not impossible, to maintain in our current environment...0 -
Hummm okay...
We know the long term effects of eating refined sugar and wheat don't we?
It amazes me that people are so addicted to this junk that they will do anything to disprove low carb.
I've maintained this lifestyle of over 13 years with only some MINOR set backs.
My dad no longer is insulin dependent from type II from low carb. And he had lost all signs of the cardic problems that he had prior. He's been maintaining nicely as well. My brother and I were pulled back from the brink of Type II when we started this lifestyle (my brother over 20 years ago). All three of us have excellent labs. My father's cardiologist is baffled.
These researchers are so determined to continue to prove that the world is flat they will put out any study to show the world is flat.
Shame on them for justifying this process food dependent disease creating diet to the world.
Did you read the study?
I did, and there is no statement there that suggests they are promoting processed foods.
I am happy for your results on a low carb, to avoid Type II; I am no doctor, but it is plausible a low carb diet is the way to go for specific cases.
The study was a compilation of all the available evidence out there.
It did say there is not enough evidence to say it is unhealthy; what it does state clearly is that a Low Carb diet, for the sole purpose of reducing weight, has no advantage over a regular carb diet.0 -
Unless you are trying to build muscle mass in which case you are encouraged to eat 1-2 g / per body weight of lean muscle mass. In my case 170-350 gs a day. Now taking into account your body can only process 40-60 grams every 2 hours, I would think you do and can reach a point of saturation of protein.People are often told to eat 300-700g of carbs per day (depending on activity levels). People are rarely encouraged to eat more than 200g of protein. Plus carbs flood the blood with glucose unlike protein. So there is a big difference physiologically between eating protein and carbs and the subsequent insulin response.0
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bump0
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Now taking into account your body can only process 40-60 grams every 2 hours, I would think you do and can reach a point of saturation of protein.
Just something to read regarding the above as it has been readily established as false. Not trying to be a pecker about it, just wanted to share as it's a very informative article that accurately explains why the previously believed "protein absorption limit" is bogus:
http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/0 -
With all due respect you're partially wrong. Read below.
"Protein Absorption Rate
Protein does not always absorb at the same rate. The rate of absorption depends largely upon the biological value, or BV, of the protein. The BV of a protein measures its overall absorbability. The protein with the highest absorbability is whey protein. According to Dr. Helen Kollias, Ph.D., an expert in muscle development, whey protein absorbs at a rate of about 8- to-10 g per hour. It takes whey protein about 1.5 hours to complete the digestion process. Other proteins, such as soy and meat, may take hours longer (4-5 h)."
So depends of the type of protein you can take way more than 40-60 grams once.
On top read the article from the link above.Unless you are trying to build muscle mass in which case you are encouraged to eat 1-2 g / per body weight of lean muscle mass. In my case 170-350 gs a day. Now taking into account your body can only process 40-60 grams every 2 hours, I would think you do and can reach a point of saturation of protein.People are often told to eat 300-700g of carbs per day (depending on activity levels). People are rarely encouraged to eat more than 200g of protein. Plus carbs flood the blood with glucose unlike protein. So there is a big difference physiologically between eating protein and carbs and the subsequent insulin response.0 -
The problem, however, is that low carb diets don’t provide the education needed to keep the weight off. Therefore I, and many of my fellow low carb dieters, have ended up putting the weight back on. Hence my current low calorie approach....
What education is that? I thought it was common sense that when you go back to the same eating habits that got you fat in the first place that you would regain the weight.Unfortunately, it is a lifestyle that is difficult, if not impossible, to maintain in our current environment...
I agree with this, but its because our culture values junk food over health.0 -
As someone who has done both low carb and "normal" carb low calorie diets, I can attest to the fact that you lose weight a LOT faster on a low carb diet. In 1.5 months I could have easily lost as much weight as I have lost in 4 months on my "normal" carb low calorie diet. The problem, however, is that low carb diets don’t provide the education needed to keep the weight off. Therefore I, and many of my fellow low carb dieters, have ended up putting the weight back on. Hence my current low calorie approach....
That said, all of the theories behind low carb diets make perfect sense to me. Back in the day before ovens, refrigerators, and genetically modified foods people ate what was available to them; this meant nutrient and fiber (complex carbohydrates) dense veggies and fruits only when they were in season (and I might add that today's genetically modified versions of these fruits and veggies contain a lot more sugar) and meat (which was leaner because it roamed free) when they could hunt and catch it. There was no bread and no pasta...Simple carbs simply didn’t exist. This, it makes sense to me, is how our bodies were designed to eat and explains why low carb diets work so well. Unfortunately, it is a lifestyle that is difficult, if not impossible, to maintain in our current environment...
I agree with you completely on the Education part.
MFP has enabled me to ensure not only that my caloric intake is reduced, but to watch for intake of fiber, cholesterol, sodium, etc for better health.
On the food that humans are designed to eat: a lot of debate there !
What would a diet of the first humans look like?
You could argue humans are not designed to eat meat, since we had no means to kill the animals, until we developed tools. Our current digestive system was already in place, long before we started killing animals.
But this is a hot topic, that would only take us outside the low carb discussion.
BTW, I do eat meat, so don't tag me as anti-meat :bigsmile:0 -
I would offer to show you how to make a Pine Cone Bird Feeder, but since it's loaded with carbs I doubt I would have many takers.
Such a shame.
Pine Cone Bird Feeders will kill you due to high carb content, stay away plz for your own safety
Also, just a question to everyone because I am honestly curious... Those of you that quote scientific publications, do you actually understand that they're saying? I'm not saying that I don't think you do, I'm just curious if you understand EVERYTHING (all of the words, even the big ones) or do you just only understand certain parts of them. And I'm not talking about just reading the Abstract either, I'm talking about the WHOLE paper. (Also, not SOMEONE ELSE'S review of a publication.)
Also, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal and shouldn't be taken as any kind of authoritative source on anything. Good for you if never eating xyz and only eating abc worked for you, that doesn't mean it's the right thing for me or anyone else.
With that being said, I am neither for nor against any kind of specific diet. If it works for you and it's medically healthy then go for it!0 -
Can't we just agree that we're all different and that the human body is amazing, adaptable, unique and surprising?
I'll add this anecdote... when I was 22 or so, I was quite fat. I gained a ton of weight after graduating from college and starting my first desk job. At 5'9", I weighed about 235 pounds. I decided it was time to lose some weight. This was in the early '90s - the peak of the low-fat craze. It was all SnackWells and fat free cheese and rice cakes and potato chips made with Olestra. There were cookbooks and lifestyle books everywhere about how to live a fat-free lifestyle. I totally bought into it. 85%-90% of my calories each day came from carbs - many of them simple carbs. I would have toast and fruit for breakfast, pasta with fat free marinara sauce for lunch, more pasta or a huge baked potato for dinner. I refused to have more than 5 grams of fat a day, because back then, everybody believed that fat made you fat. I didn't eat much protein either because it was either too expensive or too high in fat.
You know what happened... I lost 100 pounds in less than a year. My bloodwork looked fantastic, too. I kept the weight off for a few years, until I got married and started cooking for my husband. I started eating too much - large portions, snacking, etc. I gained about 60 pounds back.
I've now lost 54 of those pounds again. This time, I didn't do fat-free or low-carb or low-fat or high-protein or anything. I set some loose macros 55/15/30 and counted my calories. It worked just as easily as the no-fat diet I followed back in the early 90's.
Like I said... totally anecdotal and just my experience. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's probably true that different things work for different people. I wish people would just eat what they want and stop trying to prove everyone who disagrees with them wrong.0 -
Bump...need to read later0
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It worked for me!!!!!!!!0
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Three comments.
1. I am fascinated that people hang their hat on a study in which the authors state clearly that the results are inconclusive.
2. I am fascinated that an inconclusive study can generate 5 pages.
3. Regarding one of the studies "conclusions", some people think org's like the ADA and AHA don't have vested interests (in non-health related manners), some do.
I'm easily fascinated.
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Oh goodness...sorry! ElPumaMex, just sounding off in general and not towards you! My deepest apologies. :flowerforyou:
Yes I read the entire study. Problem is that I'm so prepared for the worst in a study like that, I expect it.
Yes, it's the process food companies that are normally behind such studies. I live in processed food Mecca. In the heart of Pillisbury, General Mills, Malt O Meal, Betty Crocker, Pilsbury....I know...they have a very big financial vested interest in this.
I can thank fhem for one thing...keeping up a bit more recession proof than the rest of the states.0 -
My two cents:
I get full easier and with less food when I focus on eating fats and proteins. When I eat carbs, I snack all day. I have noticed my friends on MFP that follow a standard low calorie only diet, they have lots of snacks throughout the day. I eat 2-3 meals focusing on fats, proteins and low carb vegetables, and stay full for hours. I still eat under 1800 calories on average with is low enough for weight loss for my height and weight.
So I do count calories, but I choose to get these calories from fats and proteins primarily. And I rarely overeat.0 -
I will answer you. We ate meat from the beginning. In the oldest humanoid fossils we found (1.8 million years) it's been tested with carbon that that guy/girl (they don't specify) ate meat. So since those times and until the industrialized revolution we ate unprocessed meat.
Before that period we don't know and we don't need to know. 1.8 million years is enough (genetically speaking) to figure out what works best for us.
By the way, none of the actual predators have tools and they manage to kill and eat.:laugh:
On the food that humans are designed to eat: a lot of debate there !
What would a diet of the first humans look like?
You could argue humans are not designed to eat meat, since we had no means to kill the animals, until we developed tools. Our current digestive system was already in place, long before we started killing animals.
But this is a hot topic, that would only take us outside the low carb discussion.
BTW, I do eat meat, so don't tag me as anti-meat :bigsmile:0 -
I am constantly hungry. I NEED carbs
maybe you should try the low carb diet..most of us are rarely hungry.
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I feel as though this thread is complete because the term herp derp was used
and because sidesteal felt the need to point out that he is not a pecker . . . :drinker:
edit: grumble, fing typo0 -
Oh goodness...sorry! ElPumaMex, just sounding off in general and not towards you! My deepest apologies. :flowerforyou:
Yes I read the entire study. Problem is that I'm so prepared for the worst in a study like that, I expect it.
Yes, it's the process food companies that are normally behind such studies. I live in processed food Mecca. In the heart of Pillisbury, General Mills, Malt O Meal, Betty Crocker, Pilsbury....I know...they have a very big financial vested interest in this.
I can thank fhem for one thing...keeping up a bit more recession proof than the rest of the states.
I completely understand your position. No need to be sorry, but thanks for the post :flowerforyou:0 -
I will answer you. We ate meat from the beginning. In the oldest humanoid fossils we found (1.8 million years) it's been tested with carbon that that guy/girl (they don't specify) ate meat. So since those times and until the industrialized revolution we ate unprocessed meat.
Before that period we don't know and we don't need to know. 1.8 million years is enough (genetically speaking) to figure out what works best for us.
By the way, none of the actual predators have tools and they manage to kill and eat.:laugh:
On the food that humans are designed to eat: a lot of debate there !
What would a diet of the first humans look like?
You could argue humans are not designed to eat meat, since we had no means to kill the animals, until we developed tools. Our current digestive system was already in place, long before we started killing animals.
But this is a hot topic, that would only take us outside the low carb discussion.
BTW, I do eat meat, so don't tag me as anti-meat :bigsmile:
Could you please direct me to where you found that humans ate meat from the beginning? or at least from 1.8 million years ago? (which btw, is a drop in the bucket of evolution time)
On the predators: last time I checked, I did not have the same "tools" as a Lion or similar predators. I challenge you to chase an animal and kill it without a weapon ! Even chasing a chicken would not be easy to do, and I don't think you were referring to chicken :smokin:0 -
I am constantly hungry. I NEED carbs
maybe you should try the low carb diet..most of us are rarely hungry.
So true... I had to force myself to eat when I was on a low carb diet. I was never hungry and I had tons of energy. I actually felt better on a low carb diet than I have ever felt before. My problem is a lack of will power. On a low carb diet, when you mess up for 1 day, or 1 meal even, it takes 3 or 4 days for your body to get back on track... at least on my low calorie diet, I don't feel like I've lost days of progress when I blow it, and yes, I do blow it from time to time...0 -
El Puma Mex. Insects, frogs, lizards and other small ones are meat. Just yesterday I've read that without any tools but using their brain and hunting in groups some monkeys eat other monkeys to complete their protein diet.
After we developed tools we went after bigger games.
And yes if I use my brain (it seems that you have a good one) I can ambush and corner a chicken and break his neck. This what made us different. Our brains.
I don't have perse a link but I have something saved on my machine. I hope you don't believe that I've made up those names.
Here you go:
"
Homo Habilis- 2.4 to 1.4 million years ago in East Africa-Their main diet was fruits, roots, nuts and vegetables that they found growing wild.
homo ergaster- 1.51 and 1.56 million years ago east and south africa- Increasinly scavaged carnivorious diet in the African regions but not in other regions.
Homo erectus- 1.8 and 1.0 million years ago africa and Eurasia-Lush vegetables, year round fruits, and occasional insects. This is the first of the homonin to branch off from Africa.
Homo neanderthalensis- 600,000 and 95,000 years ago Europe and west asia- Skilled hunters."I will answer you. We ate meat from the beginning. In the oldest humanoid fossils we found (1.8 million years) it's been tested with carbon that that guy/girl (they don't specify) ate meat. So since those times and until the industrialized revolution we ate unprocessed meat.
Before that period we don't know and we don't need to know. 1.8 million years is enough (genetically speaking) to figure out what works best for us.
By the way, none of the actual predators have tools and they manage to kill and eat.:laugh:
On the food that humans are designed to eat: a lot of debate there !
What would a diet of the first humans look like?
You could argue humans are not designed to eat meat, since we had no means to kill the animals, until we developed tools. Our current digestive system was already in place, long before we started killing animals.
But this is a hot topic, that would only take us outside the low carb discussion.
BTW, I do eat meat, so don't tag me as anti-meat :bigsmile:
Could you please direct me to where you found that humans ate meat from the beginning? or at least from 1.8 million years ago? (which btw, is a drop in the bucket of evolution time)
On the predators: last time I checked, I did not have the same "tools" as a Lion or similar predators. I challenge you to chase an animal and kill it without a weapon ! Even chasing a chicken would not be easy to do, and I don't think you were referring to chicken :smokin:0
This discussion has been closed.
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