Dr. Phil - Open Marriage

I love words and how they evolve. Since we are discussing what the term "marriage" is, I thought this might be helpful.

From Merriam:

a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage>
b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock
c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage

From Wiki

Marriage (or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people that creates kinship. The definition of marriage varies according to different cultures, but is usually an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged. Such a union, often formalized via a wedding ceremony, may also be called matrimony. Many cultures limit marriage to two persons of the opposite sex, but some allow forms of polygamous marriage, and some recognize same-sex marriage. In some conservative cultures, marriage is recommended or compulsory before pursuing any sexual activity.

People marry for many reasons, including one or more of the following: legal, social, libidinal, emotional, economic, spiritual, and religious. These might include arranged marriages, family obligations, the legal establishment of a nuclear family unit, the legal protection of children and public declaration of commitment.[1][2] The act of marriage usually creates normative or legal obligations between the individuals involved. Some cultures allow the dissolution of marriage through divorce or annulment.

Marriage can be recognized by a state, an organization, a religious authority, a tribal group, a local community or peers. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution irrespective of religious affiliation, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction.

Where is the damn "like" button???

i second that.

The couple featured today have an open marriage. Both have $ex with other people. The husband's mistresse's husband approves of this as well.

What do you think, could it work. Is this the way to keep everyone happy in a marriage so to speak?

Oh and they have rules, no $ex in the marital bed, only on a blow up mattress. And condoms are not required, WTF :noway:

Most important, does anyone want to be judged on their bedroom activities?

Depends on the scale and competition.

And the prizes involved...

need to stop reading posts like this one. It always makes me deeply sad that so many people are "ok with" or think it's "fine if it works for them". There seems to be no higher standard for anyone as long as people are "happy". There's more to life than being happy, and in my opinion, it cheapens the human experience to spend all of life only seeking after happiness.

I would never want an open marriage. I'm truly blessed in my own marriage in that my spouse and I are able to fulfill each other's emotional and physical needs and wants. It takes work, but it's worth it.

Having said that, if they are all in agreement it isn't my place to judge. The same Bible that discusses the wedding vows also clearly states that major Biblical figures such as Moses and Noah had mistresses and/or multiple wives, so even if you're a devout Christian, there's a lot of ambiguity there.

It is no more my business what they do in their bedroom (or bedrooms, as it were), than it is theirs what I do in mine. I don't care and I don't want to know about it.

I don't even have a problem with the porn. My spouse and I have watched a few together. I don't think one spouse go surfing for porn over the other's objections, but, again, if both partners agree, so what?

The one thing I would have to question about this whole arrangement - well, okay, the three things - are, number one, the fact that they don't want their child to know about the arrangement. I agree that a child doesn't need to know about their parents' sex lives. But the fact that they are hiding the relationship itself would seem to indicate some shame. Thing is, the kid is going to find out at some point, and then what? I mean, they just went on national TV, for Pete's sake. After lying to the child through omission for however long, how do they expect to be able to make it right? Number two - an eleven year old should not be watching porn. Period. And most especially with their parents. I've had all the discussions with my kid about sex ed. We communicate openly about sex, whether she should or not, possible repercussions, how the act itself works, etc. Not easy talks, but for the best for her. But there is no way on God's green earth that I would ever, ever watch sex with her. Of course she knows her parents had, and continue to have, sex. But we don't talk about the details. And, finally, third - no condoms? Big, big mistake.

If it is just adults involved and all agree - knock yourself out. I couldn't care less. I have no right and no inclination to judge. But when you have a kid and you're doing something you have to hide from them, you're making bad decisions.

I was always taught that if you have to keep your relationship secret you probably shouldn't be in it. Some people may really be happy in open marriages, but I would venture to say that there are more hurt feelings and bruised egos in that scenario than in a monogamous marriage (which I am currently thoroughly enjoying). Marriage/relationships shouldn't be about sex. It has to be about knowing the other person and being special/intimate with them on an entirely different level. There's no way I could have the emotional and spiritual connection that I do with my husband now if either of us were intimate with other people.

There are many different types of open-marriages. Some religious groups allow men to have many wives so they can procreate a LOT. Some folks are swingers, some are polyamourous, some have other partners separate from the marriage. The way that works is because they are in a loving, honest, committed relationship. You can't have a successful open relationship without the honesty and commitment and the no-holds-barred discussions of emotions. Well, you can, but I believe they call that cheating.

As for why be married? For the same reason many people get married; LOVE. I love my husband, I am fully committed to my husband and there is nobody I would rather raise my children with and grow old with. The fact that we are allowed to sleep with other people doesn't change that. My marriage is not any less valid than anybody elses and our committment to eachother is not any less than that of any other married couple.

OP--I haven't read the replies as I didn't wish to get sidetracked...I know a couple who have been married 40+ yrs...Open marriage..with boths consent...lovers always know about spouse..and if lover is married their spouse must approve too. This couple has multiple children...are they all biologically his? I suspect not. Both agreed that all children she bore would be their children. I've never met a happier couple and they so obviously love each other that I can't condemn them for it.

What about the kids? All heathy, happy and well adjusted. All adults now.

This doesn't work for everyone...doubt I could have did it. I didn't share well..too jealous.. If it's mine I don't share,,If it's not mine I don't want it.

But to each his own...When between consenting adults...it's simply not my business.

I would never want an open marriage. I'm truly blessed in my own marriage in that my spouse and I are able to fulfill each other's emotional and physical needs and wants. It takes work, but it's worth it.

Having said that, if they are all in agreement it isn't my place to judge. The same Bible that discusses the wedding vows also clearly states that major Biblical figures such as Moses and Noah had mistresses and/or multiple wives, so even if you're a devout Christian, there's a lot of ambiguity there.

It is no more my business what they do in their bedroom (or bedrooms, as it were), than it is theirs what I do in mine. I don't care and I don't want to know about it.

I don't even have a problem with the porn. My spouse and I have watched a few together. I don't think one spouse go surfing for porn over the other's objections, but, again, if both partners agree, so what?

The one thing I would have to question about this whole arrangement - well, okay, the three things - are, number one, the fact that they don't want their child to know about the arrangement. I agree that a child doesn't need to know about their parents' sex lives. But the fact that they are hiding the relationship itself would seem to indicate some shame. Thing is, the kid is going to find out at some point, and then what? I mean, they just went on national TV, for Pete's sake. After lying to the child through omission for however long, how do they expect to be able to make it right? Number two - an eleven year old should not be watching porn. Period. And most especially with their parents. I've had all the discussions with my kid about sex ed. We communicate openly about sex, whether she should or not, possible repercussions, how the act itself works, etc. Not easy talks, but for the best for her. But there is no way on God's green earth that I would ever, ever watch sex with her. Of course she knows her parents had, and continue to have, sex. But we don't talk about the details. And, finally, third - no condoms? Big, big mistake.

If it is just adults involved and all agree - knock yourself out. I couldn't care less. I have no right and no inclination to judge. But when you have a kid and you're doing something you have to hide from them, you're making bad decisions.

Please stop with all the biblical stuff.

You all that take the bible so serious..............Why? It is nothing but a book of stories that is from a historical time. It is MAN MADE and MAN WRITTEN.

The bible pretty much doesn't mean anything to me and I have been happily married for 14 years now. I am spiritual in other ways, but I am definitely NOT religious.

Why bother to get married then?

Thank you!! Marriage means you will love honor and sleep with that one person the rest of your life.. If you dont get the commitement than dont get married! Ugh this world we live in these days I dont get it.. The idea of my husband touching and being inside another woman makes my skin crawl no i dont want you porking other woman than coming home to me no thanks..

There's nothing in the vow of marriage about sleeping with only one person. It's only part of the vow of marriage if that's the commitment you make to one another. Marriage is about commitment to each other that runs much greater than sex. Not to mention a legal commitment. So there's plenty of reason to marry someone even if both parties agree that they want to be intimate with other people.

And lets not pretend like polygamy is something new. Back in biblical times, it was common for men to have multiple wives. So it's not exactly new or shocking.

Like I said in my other post, it's certainly something that's not for most people (myself included), but as long as all people involved are consenting, I don't think their lifestyle is any less valid than mine.

From what I understand the "Vow" is simply the part you say "In front of God and these witnesses". Quick Google on Traditional vows finds these:

"Forsaking all others, till death do us part."
or
"faithfully keep to her/him alone, so long as you both shall live?"
or
"and to that I pledge you my faithfulness. "
or
"and I promise to love you, and to be faithful to you as long as we both shall live."

Obviously you don't have to have these specific statements in your vows. But not sleeping with others is exactly what these say. Personally I've never been to a wedding, including one in a judges chamber, where some type of "Forsaking all others" was not in the vow. Yeah, you don't sign a paper with these words on it, but the word "swear" indicates a promise.

This thread disgusts me to my very core. Why even get married than? Wives--- you honestly can say you have no issue with your husband staying out all night with another woman? NO. NO NONO!!! Come on... have some self respect for YOURSELF and for your relationship!!!!!

The whole "why be married thing"...yea. That one irks me I am afraid. I am in the US. I had been with my husband for 6 years before we got married. We had 2 children at that point.

Why get married? Well first, we loved each other and care deeply about the other. Secondly marriage is a legal contract. It says that if something happens to him I make choices and if something happens to me he makes choices. It also says if something happens to either of us that the kids go to the other. It makes each of us tied to each other legally.

Marriage also means that we get to share things like health insurance. I had been with him for 6 years but couldn't get his dental insurance because we didn't have a piece of paper saying we were legally bound to each other. There is no "common law" marriage here, it doesn't apply.

I could be wrong, since it was nearly 4 years ago that I got married, but I don't remember anything in my vows about not having relations with other people (in either his or mine). I believe we promised to love, honor, and obey each other. That means VERY different things to different couples.

None of this is saying I am in an open marriage, as I am not, but it is to say that "marriage" is not religiously tied, in anyway, unless that is what the couple believes.

Didn't your vows include the "forsaking all others" part? That's the part that says you cannot be with anyone else. I'm just asking because this is usually included in standard vows unless you alter it or write your own. I've never heard of anyone using "the standard vows" and it not already including this part since, in the eyes of God, forsaking all others and fidelity is a very big part of a marriage vow.