Dr. Phil - Open Marriage
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That's true and I make it a point NEVER to watch these shows because if there were no audience there would be no show. I also would never go on these shows. I am actually more upset that they went on tv about it than their actual lifestyle choice. lol. Only thing that makes Pittsburgh winter tolerable is my Steelers football!!
I agree, but this family did go on tv and tell their business.The world would be a much better place if people would learn to mind their own f'ing business.
The only reason shows like his exist is because people are consumed with other people's business.
If we had a "live and let live" society, reality & talk shows wouldn't exist. No one would care who the baby's daddy is, or who is sleeping with who.
And on a side note, Go Steelers and was in your area last night.
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One last thing. For all those who toss up their hands and state why get married, it took me all of 5 seconds to come up with these reasons:
taxes obviously
insurance coverage (love those multiple policy discounts)
health insurance coverage for children
I know the fed govt give married couples more benefits than single people
Retirement and social security for spouses
I am sure there are more, but that's what I could come up with0 -
I think it's a million times more healthy to be in an open marriage where both parties were happy & filling thier sexual needs, as opposed to a loveless, sexless marriage that many people seem to accept as normal these days.
THIS^ I pity the fool who gets to do it missionary, once every 2-3 months with his wife. Do you think he'd ever tell her he's unhappy, probably not.
I don't condone cheating but I have to wonder what women expect when they hold out on their husbands. Or vice versa.
I'd rather have a happy satifying sex life and relationship that my partner and I agree on. Anyone who thinks differently is either exceptionally lucky that neither partner wants to explore or insanely jealous.0 -
I would never want an open marriage. I'm truly blessed in my own marriage in that my spouse and I are able to fulfill each other's emotional and physical needs and wants. It takes work, but it's worth it.
Having said that, if they are all in agreement it isn't my place to judge. The same Bible that discusses the wedding vows also clearly states that major Biblical figures such as Moses and Noah had mistresses and/or multiple wives, so even if you're a devout Christian, there's a lot of ambiguity there.
It is no more my business what they do in their bedroom (or bedrooms, as it were), than it is theirs what I do in mine. I don't care and I don't want to know about it.
I don't even have a problem with the porn. My spouse and I have watched a few together. I don't think one spouse go surfing for porn over the other's objections, but, again, if both partners agree, so what?
The one thing I would have to question about this whole arrangement - well, okay, the three things - are, number one, the fact that they don't want their child to know about the arrangement. I agree that a child doesn't need to know about their parents' sex lives. But the fact that they are hiding the relationship itself would seem to indicate some shame. Thing is, the kid is going to find out at some point, and then what? I mean, they just went on national TV, for Pete's sake. After lying to the child through omission for however long, how do they expect to be able to make it right? Number two - an eleven year old should not be watching porn. Period. And most especially with their parents. I've had all the discussions with my kid about sex ed. We communicate openly about sex, whether she should or not, possible repercussions, how the act itself works, etc. Not easy talks, but for the best for her. But there is no way on God's green earth that I would ever, ever watch sex with her. Of course she knows her parents had, and continue to have, sex. But we don't talk about the details. And, finally, third - no condoms? Big, big mistake.
If it is just adults involved and all agree - knock yourself out. I couldn't care less. I have no right and no inclination to judge. But when you have a kid and you're doing something you have to hide from them, you're making bad decisions.
The one thing that keeps irking me about a lot of comments is the whole "hiding it from their kids." Do you have sex with your door open? Do you tell your kids that you and daddy did it doggy style the other night? NO. OBVIOUSLY their children will find out, didn't yours find out you have sex? At that time, I'm sure they will come up with a mature way to discuss it. If not, ultimately it is none of the kids' business what / how the parents are having sex.
You didn't read my whole post. I specifically mentioned the fact that our child of course knows that we have sex. That isn't the issue. Nobody shares such details with their children. But hiding an entire relationship? Bit different, I think. And how a parent lives their life IS a child's "business", especially at that age. A minor child is affected by what their parents do in so many ways. If this is truly how they wish to live and they don't feel some sort of underlying shame, then they need to have that conversation with their child NOW, not after he finds out about it from his classmates.
I literally just lawled at your response. No, I don't think it's a bit different at all. It is their sex life - not a relationship. Please learn the difference prior to throwing those accusations. And again, NO. It is not their children's' business how / what they chose to do to get off. Also, and this was the funniest part, if they are hiding it from their children (which they obviously aren't any more) how in God's name are their classmates going to find out?
I wasn't throwing around accusations. It's really quite ironic that you are at least as judgmental and close-minded as you appear to think everyone else is, but you don't appear to see it in yourself. I've stated my opinion. That's what forums such as this are for. You're free to yours, as well, but I think you're wrong to attack others for theirs. I don't agree with you, and I think you're missing the point of what I've said, but I'm not going to debate it further with you. There's many things I could say to you to refute your misunderstanding of what I've said, but you've made up your mind and none of it would get through to you, so I won't bother to do so. Individuals such as yourself, who are obviously not open to free and honest discussion, are the reason I so rarely post to this site. Have a great day.0 -
The whole "why be married thing"...yea. That one irks me I am afraid. I am in the US. I had been with my husband for 6 years before we got married. We had 2 children at that point.
Why get married? Well first, we loved each other and care deeply about the other. Secondly marriage is a legal contract. It says that if something happens to him I make choices and if something happens to me he makes choices. It also says if something happens to either of us that the kids go to the other. It makes each of us tied to each other legally.
Marriage also means that we get to share things like health insurance. I had been with him for 6 years but couldn't get his dental insurance because we didn't have a piece of paper saying we were legally bound to each other. There is no "common law" marriage here, it doesn't apply.
I could be wrong, since it was nearly 4 years ago that I got married, but I don't remember anything in my vows about not having relations with other people (in either his or mine). I believe we promised to love, honor, and obey each other. That means VERY different things to different couples.
None of this is saying I am in an open marriage, as I am not, but it is to say that "marriage" is not religiously tied, in anyway, unless that is what the couple believes.0 -
Sex, love , marriage...three different things. I've seen loveless marriages, sexless marriages, everything in between. I love my wife, she loves me. We've both played the field, it has not affected how we feel about each other. I love her more than ever, and our sex life is hot, hot , hot!!! What works for some, does not work for others. I don't judge, don't judge me! Marriage is basically a business contract, Love is what is important.0
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Honestly, my initial response to the question of open marriage is negative - and I'm generally a pretty open-minded person when it comes to sexuality, lifestyle, personal preferences etc... but I know the effect an "open relationship" (whether marriage or a committed long-term relationship) can have on families.
My sister, a great gal, and her 10-year-long significant other have a 6-year-old daughter together. My sister also has a soon-to-be 18-year-old son from a previous marriage who lives with them 90% of the time, as his dad's out of state. Great! Fine, wonderful, committed relationship, family atmosphere, etc. About three years ago they started having problems (when the girl was 3), and decided that though they loved each other dearly they were frustrated and bored with each other. They decided on an open relationship. Then they decided not to sleep in the same bed any longer. Then they decided to start dating other people seriously while still living in the same house together. Now, their daughter is starting to realize what's going on and ask why mommy sleeps over at friends' houses, and she (the daughter) has taken to sleeping in their bed while one of them sleeps in hers; the daughter is so emotionally screwed up that she's been taken to a psychotherapist--she still has to wear diapers at age 6; the 18-year-old who saw this as a stable household when he was 15 quickly picked up on what was happening and, as teenagers do, started to rebel (he decided to start doing a lot of drugs, have sex (because his mom was allowed to sleep around), and very nearly flunked out of school); and my sister and her... umm... ex? are deciding what to do about the house... yet they still say "I love you" to each other and he still comes to the big family dinners/parties as if they're a couple. Everyone knows the situation, many have advised both of them to move out and save their daughter years of therapy, and though many have since decided to stay out of it as much as possible, it has a visible effect on everyone.
Obviously this is a particular case with specific examples. My point is that, once you decide upon an open relationship, you may as well divorce or separate. The time apart might make you want to be with the other person again, and the time apart might make you realize you're better off on your own. Lots of people only want an open relationship because they're scared to tear the family fabric at the seams... but as seen above, the family fabric gets torn just as wholly and probably more devastatingly by dragging it out over time.
My boyfriend and I live together and are planning on being married in the next year or so. We're both of the mind that we probably won't get bored with each other in bed, but if we do, we can always experiment or spice things up or maybe even bring someone else home for a night... but we would NEVER invest emotions into that "someone else" and we would never opt for an "open relationship/open marriage" because to us that means a complete lack of commitment to each other, and we love each other far too much to consider such a thing.
That's it. End of story. I think this may be one of the only things I'm not "to each his own" about, and there are good reasons why.0 -
First of all I don't care about other people's drama which the media only sensationalizes. I think usually this open marriage is for cowards who are afraid to be alone emotionally hence the permanent partner. Otherwise they would just be single and having sex with people.0
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I think it's a million times more healthy to be in an open marriage where both parties were happy & filling thier sexual needs, as opposed to a loveless, sexless marriage that many people seem to accept as normal these days.
THIS^ I pity the fool who gets to do it missionary, once every 2-3 months with his wife. Do you think he'd ever tell her he's unhappy, probably not.
I don't condone cheating but I have to wonder what women expect when they hold out on their husbands. Or vice versa.
I'd rather have a happy satifying sex life and relationship that my partner and I agree on. Anyone who thinks differently is either exceptionally lucky that neither partner wants to explore or insanely jealous.
I find it refreshing when women get this. Yeah I know it does go both ways. I think this is a huge problem in marriages, but the problem is most people when making judgements of other couples fixate on the downstream effects like spousal cheating and other things they do as a result of an unfulfilling marriage.0 -
If you want an "open" relationship, why get married? To me that's just playing games with lives and society. And what ever happened to morals?
I don't want to judge anybody, but isn't there some responsibility to live your life with some boundaries? You can call it morals, responsibility, integrity, or devotion.
If you choose to live under the term marriage, shouldn't that include being faithful and devoted to one person?0 -
I would never want an open marriage. I'm truly blessed in my own marriage in that my spouse and I are able to fulfill each other's emotional and physical needs and wants. It takes work, but it's worth it.
Having said that, if they are all in agreement it isn't my place to judge. The same Bible that discusses the wedding vows also clearly states that major Biblical figures such as Moses and Noah had mistresses and/or multiple wives, so even if you're a devout Christian, there's a lot of ambiguity there.
It is no more my business what they do in their bedroom (or bedrooms, as it were), than it is theirs what I do in mine. I don't care and I don't want to know about it.
I don't even have a problem with the porn. My spouse and I have watched a few together. I don't think one spouse go surfing for porn over the other's objections, but, again, if both partners agree, so what?
The one thing I would have to question about this whole arrangement - well, okay, the three things - are, number one, the fact that they don't want their child to know about the arrangement. I agree that a child doesn't need to know about their parents' sex lives. But the fact that they are hiding the relationship itself would seem to indicate some shame. Thing is, the kid is going to find out at some point, and then what? I mean, they just went on national TV, for Pete's sake. After lying to the child through omission for however long, how do they expect to be able to make it right? Number two - an eleven year old should not be watching porn. Period. And most especially with their parents. I've had all the discussions with my kid about sex ed. We communicate openly about sex, whether she should or not, possible repercussions, how the act itself works, etc. Not easy talks, but for the best for her. But there is no way on God's green earth that I would ever, ever watch sex with her. Of course she knows her parents had, and continue to have, sex. But we don't talk about the details. And, finally, third - no condoms? Big, big mistake.
If it is just adults involved and all agree - knock yourself out. I couldn't care less. I have no right and no inclination to judge. But when you have a kid and you're doing something you have to hide from them, you're making bad decisions.
The one thing that keeps irking me about a lot of comments is the whole "hiding it from their kids." Do you have sex with your door open? Do you tell your kids that you and daddy did it doggy style the other night? NO. OBVIOUSLY their children will find out, didn't yours find out you have sex? At that time, I'm sure they will come up with a mature way to discuss it. If not, ultimately it is none of the kids' business what / how the parents are having sex.
You didn't read my whole post. I specifically mentioned the fact that our child of course knows that we have sex. That isn't the issue. Nobody shares such details with their children. But hiding an entire relationship? Bit different, I think. And how a parent lives their life IS a child's "business", especially at that age. A minor child is affected by what their parents do in so many ways. If this is truly how they wish to live and they don't feel some sort of underlying shame, then they need to have that conversation with their child NOW, not after he finds out about it from his classmates.
I literally just lawled at your response. No, I don't think it's a bit different at all. It is their sex life - not a relationship. Please learn the difference prior to throwing those accusations. And again, NO. It is not their children's' business how / what they chose to do to get off. Also, and this was the funniest part, if they are hiding it from their children (which they obviously aren't any more) how in God's name are their classmates going to find out?
I wasn't throwing around accusations. It's really quite ironic that you are at least as judgmental and close-minded as you appear to think everyone else is, but you don't appear to see it in yourself. I've stated my opinion. That's what forums such as this are for. You're free to yours, as well, but I think you're wrong to attack others for theirs. I don't agree with you, and I think you're missing the point of what I've said, but I'm not going to debate it further with you. There's many things I could say to you to refute your misunderstanding of what I've said, but you've made up your mind and none of it would get through to you, so I won't bother to do so. Individuals such as yourself, who are obviously not open to free and honest discussion, are the reason I so rarely post to this site. Have a great day.
I'm pretty sure we're having a discussion right now, so I'm clearly open to it. And before you walk away, please explain how I am close minded? By believing everyone is open to spending their lives happily? I am not attacking anyone. I am trying to get people to at least understand that there is no black and white to marriage and that what others do should not be judged simply because it is not the way you live your life.0 -
That's true and I make it a point NEVER to watch these shows because if there were no audience there would be no show. I also would never go on these shows. I am actually more upset that they went on tv about it than their actual lifestyle choice. lol. Only thing that makes Pittsburgh winter tolerable is my Steelers football!!
I must admit that I am guilty of watching some of these shows, although I don't watch as many as I used to.
I normally would agree with your last statement, but honestly this season/winter it was the opposite. The only thing that made the Steeler season tolerable was the exceptionally mild winter. :laugh:
Also, if you might want to check out the following MFP group.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/54-steeler-nation0 -
If you want an "open" relationship, why get married? To me that's just playing games with lives and society. And what ever happened to morals?
I don't want to judge anybody, but isn't there some responsibility to live your life with some boundaries? You can call it morals, responsibility, integrity, or devotion.
If you choose to live under the term marriage, shouldn't that include being faithful and devoted to one person?
You get to pick and choose what you think is right or wrong or moral. Morality is a salad bar so get what you want and leave the rest.0 -
If you want an "open" relationship, why get married? To me that's just playing games with lives and society. And what ever happened to morals?
I don't want to judge anybody, but isn't there some responsibility to live your life with some boundaries? You can call it morals, responsibility, integrity, or devotion.
If you choose to live under the term marriage, shouldn't that include being faithful and devoted to one person?
I think you should go grab yourself a copy of Sam Harris' "Moral Landscape".
It is "moral" to do FGM in many African countries...does that mean we should do it here too?0 -
I love words and how they evolve. Since we are discussing what the term "marriage" is, I thought this might be helpful.
From Merriam:
a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage>
b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock
c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
From Wiki
Marriage (or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people that creates kinship. The definition of marriage varies according to different cultures, but is usually an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged. Such a union, often formalized via a wedding ceremony, may also be called matrimony. Many cultures limit marriage to two persons of the opposite sex, but some allow forms of polygamous marriage, and some recognize same-sex marriage. In some conservative cultures, marriage is recommended or compulsory before pursuing any sexual activity.
People marry for many reasons, including one or more of the following: legal, social, libidinal, emotional, economic, spiritual, and religious. These might include arranged marriages, family obligations, the legal establishment of a nuclear family unit, the legal protection of children and public declaration of commitment.[1][2] The act of marriage usually creates normative or legal obligations between the individuals involved. Some cultures allow the dissolution of marriage through divorce or annulment.
Marriage can be recognized by a state, an organization, a religious authority, a tribal group, a local community or peers. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution irrespective of religious affiliation, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction.0 -
If you want an "open" relationship, why get married? To me that's just playing games with lives and society. And what ever happened to morals?
I don't want to judge anybody, but isn't there some responsibility to live your life with some boundaries? You can call it morals, responsibility, integrity, or devotion.
If you choose to live under the term marriage, shouldn't that include being faithful and devoted to one person?
You get to pick and choose what you think is right or wrong or moral. Morality is a salad bar so get what you want and leave the rest.
I am rather fond of romaine lettuce, baby spinach, and carrots. I opt out of cherry tomatoes though. Bleck.0 -
I love words and how they evolve. Since we are discussing what the term "marriage" is, I thought this might be helpful.
From Merriam:
a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage>
b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock
c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
From Wiki
Marriage (or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people that creates kinship. The definition of marriage varies according to different cultures, but is usually an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged. Such a union, often formalized via a wedding ceremony, may also be called matrimony. Many cultures limit marriage to two persons of the opposite sex, but some allow forms of polygamous marriage, and some recognize same-sex marriage. In some conservative cultures, marriage is recommended or compulsory before pursuing any sexual activity.
People marry for many reasons, including one or more of the following: legal, social, libidinal, emotional, economic, spiritual, and religious. These might include arranged marriages, family obligations, the legal establishment of a nuclear family unit, the legal protection of children and public declaration of commitment.[1][2] The act of marriage usually creates normative or legal obligations between the individuals involved. Some cultures allow the dissolution of marriage through divorce or annulment.
Marriage can be recognized by a state, an organization, a religious authority, a tribal group, a local community or peers. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution irrespective of religious affiliation, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction.
Where is the damn "like" button???0 -
<<snip>
Where is the damn "like" button???
Honk the red nose0 -
I didn't watch either but to each their own.
My husband asks if he can have a second wife all the time. I say if she cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids and him.... I am all for it!
Completely agree...we are constantly joking about the possibility!0 -
I think it's a million times more healthy to be in an open marriage where both parties were happy & filling thier sexual needs, as opposed to a loveless, sexless marriage that many people seem to accept as normal these days.
THIS^ I pity the fool who gets to do it missionary, once every 2-3 months with his wife. Do you think he'd ever tell her he's unhappy, probably not.
I don't condone cheating but I have to wonder what women expect when they hold out on their husbands. Or vice versa.
I'd rather have a happy satifying sex life and relationship that my partner and I agree on. Anyone who thinks differently is either exceptionally lucky that neither partner wants to explore or insanely jealous.
Who holds out on their husbands and only does it one way? That's sort of generalizing... and 3 times a month? Also generalizing and I would NOT be happy with 3xs a month unless my husband or I were away and it was unavoidable. What works for us doesn't work for everyone and some people have a lot less sex or much more "boring" sex... not sure if they're happy about it or not, none of my business really... but if you think your sex life is boring or not frequent enough, why not work on fixing that together? I will say yes - I feel lucky in my marriage but also that if I wasn't fulfilled by my husband I wouldn't have married him.
The words I'm hearing about those who promote open marriage are - unfulfilled, bored... and that's why I said then the primary relationship is lacking something they need to go outside of it to get.
I was just wondering why people who know they don't want monogamy get married and someone made a nice list above - all monetary reasons, which again is also fine for others, but not me... I was just curious. And yes - what goes in on the bedroom is really no ones business but the question was asked so we're answering. Going on a talk show and airing your sex life is asking for attention and response.0 -
I would never want an open marriage. I'm truly blessed in my own marriage in that my spouse and I are able to fulfill each other's emotional and physical needs and wants. It takes work, but it's worth it.
Having said that, if they are all in agreement it isn't my place to judge. The same Bible that discusses the wedding vows also clearly states that major Biblical figures such as Moses and Noah had mistresses and/or multiple wives, so even if you're a devout Christian, there's a lot of ambiguity there.
It is no more my business what they do in their bedroom (or bedrooms, as it were), than it is theirs what I do in mine. I don't care and I don't want to know about it.
I don't even have a problem with the porn. My spouse and I have watched a few together. I don't think one spouse go surfing for porn over the other's objections, but, again, if both partners agree, so what?
The one thing I would have to question about this whole arrangement - well, okay, the three things - are, number one, the fact that they don't want their child to know about the arrangement. I agree that a child doesn't need to know about their parents' sex lives. But the fact that they are hiding the relationship itself would seem to indicate some shame. Thing is, the kid is going to find out at some point, and then what? I mean, they just went on national TV, for Pete's sake. After lying to the child through omission for however long, how do they expect to be able to make it right? Number two - an eleven year old should not be watching porn. Period. And most especially with their parents. I've had all the discussions with my kid about sex ed. We communicate openly about sex, whether she should or not, possible repercussions, how the act itself works, etc. Not easy talks, but for the best for her. But there is no way on God's green earth that I would ever, ever watch sex with her. Of course she knows her parents had, and continue to have, sex. But we don't talk about the details. And, finally, third - no condoms? Big, big mistake.
If it is just adults involved and all agree - knock yourself out. I couldn't care less. I have no right and no inclination to judge. But when you have a kid and you're doing something you have to hide from them, you're making bad decisions.
The one thing that keeps irking me about a lot of comments is the whole "hiding it from their kids." Do you have sex with your door open? Do you tell your kids that you and daddy did it doggy style the other night? NO. OBVIOUSLY their children will find out, didn't yours find out you have sex? At that time, I'm sure they will come up with a mature way to discuss it. If not, ultimately it is none of the kids' business what / how the parents are having sex.
You didn't read my whole post. I specifically mentioned the fact that our child of course knows that we have sex. That isn't the issue. Nobody shares such details with their children. But hiding an entire relationship? Bit different, I think. And how a parent lives their life IS a child's "business", especially at that age. A minor child is affected by what their parents do in so many ways. If this is truly how they wish to live and they don't feel some sort of underlying shame, then they need to have that conversation with their child NOW, not after he finds out about it from his classmates.
I literally just lawled at your response. No, I don't think it's a bit different at all. It is their sex life - not a relationship. Please learn the difference prior to throwing those accusations. And again, NO. It is not their children's' business how / what they chose to do to get off. Also, and this was the funniest part, if they are hiding it from their children (which they obviously aren't any more) how in God's name are their classmates going to find out?
I wasn't throwing around accusations. It's really quite ironic that you are at least as judgmental and close-minded as you appear to think everyone else is, but you don't appear to see it in yourself. I've stated my opinion. That's what forums such as this are for. You're free to yours, as well, but I think you're wrong to attack others for theirs. I don't agree with you, and I think you're missing the point of what I've said, but I'm not going to debate it further with you. There's many things I could say to you to refute your misunderstanding of what I've said, but you've made up your mind and none of it would get through to you, so I won't bother to do so. Individuals such as yourself, who are obviously not open to free and honest discussion, are the reason I so rarely post to this site. Have a great day.
I'm pretty sure we're having a discussion right now, so I'm clearly open to it. And before you walk away, please explain how I am close minded? By believing everyone is open to spending their lives happily? I am not attacking anyone. I am trying to get people to at least understand that there is no black and white to marriage and that what others do should not be judged simply because it is not the way you live your life.
We are not having a discussion. You are too busy telling my why I'm wrong for us to have a discussion. I don't agree with what you've said, but I'm not being disrespectful or derisive or treating your posts with obvious contempt. That kind of attitude, the attitude of "I'm right and you're wrong" is what inhibits free and honest discussion. if you had truly read my post with an open mind, you'd have seen that I specifically stated that there's a lot of ambiguity in what makes a marriage.
Of course everyone should seek their own happiness. But responsible adults do that in such a way that it causes no harm to others. When you have a child, whether you like it or not, you have to consider them in EVERY decision you make. I'm not judging them. I don't care what they do. I'm simply making the point that perhaps they could make some better decisions for the child.
Porn? A whole other couple included in your marriage that he doesn't know about? Hiding it from him (which, yes, the couple stated they were doing)? It would be very easy for the child to find out from a classmate. Picture this: you're that kid. Mommy and daddy go on TV and tell the country that Uncle Joe and Aunt Linda are sharing their beds. You had no idea, but because Timmy heard his mommy and daddy talking about a show they saw on TV, he came to school and told you all about it, and now some of your classmates are teasing you about it and calling you a freak. Sound at all feasible? If you have kids, you know that it is all too feasible. My point about the kid was - be good parents. You wanna do the beast with two backs with Aunt Linda and Uncle Joe? Have at it. But figure out a way to explain it to the kid so he doesn't end up with unnecessary scars, because his well-being is your responsibility.0 -
Well one thing is for sure, there is no LOVE or RESPECT for self nor the other individual.... and no condoms ..ummm may as well sign their own death certificate!!!0
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I love words and how they evolve. Since we are discussing what the term "marriage" is, I thought this might be helpful.
From Merriam:
a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage>
b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock
c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
From Wiki
Marriage (or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people that creates kinship. The definition of marriage varies according to different cultures, but is usually an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged. Such a union, often formalized via a wedding ceremony, may also be called matrimony. Many cultures limit marriage to two persons of the opposite sex, but some allow forms of polygamous marriage, and some recognize same-sex marriage. In some conservative cultures, marriage is recommended or compulsory before pursuing any sexual activity.
People marry for many reasons, including one or more of the following: legal, social, libidinal, emotional, economic, spiritual, and religious. These might include arranged marriages, family obligations, the legal establishment of a nuclear family unit, the legal protection of children and public declaration of commitment.[1][2] The act of marriage usually creates normative or legal obligations between the individuals involved. Some cultures allow the dissolution of marriage through divorce or annulment.
Marriage can be recognized by a state, an organization, a religious authority, a tribal group, a local community or peers. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution irrespective of religious affiliation, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction.
Where is the damn "like" button???
i second that.0 -
I don't watch the show, but.......I will say...I believe open relationships can absolutely work as long as
there are clear boundaries and each member agrees on the rules that are set.0 -
I would never want an open marriage. I'm truly blessed in my own marriage in that my spouse and I are able to fulfill each other's emotional and physical needs and wants. It takes work, but it's worth it.
Having said that, if they are all in agreement it isn't my place to judge. The same Bible that discusses the wedding vows also clearly states that major Biblical figures such as Moses and Noah had mistresses and/or multiple wives, so even if you're a devout Christian, there's a lot of ambiguity there.
It is no more my business what they do in their bedroom (or bedrooms, as it were), than it is theirs what I do in mine. I don't care and I don't want to know about it.
I don't even have a problem with the porn. My spouse and I have watched a few together. I don't think one spouse go surfing for porn over the other's objections, but, again, if both partners agree, so what?
The one thing I would have to question about this whole arrangement - well, okay, the three things - are, number one, the fact that they don't want their child to know about the arrangement. I agree that a child doesn't need to know about their parents' sex lives. But the fact that they are hiding the relationship itself would seem to indicate some shame. Thing is, the kid is going to find out at some point, and then what? I mean, they just went on national TV, for Pete's sake. After lying to the child through omission for however long, how do they expect to be able to make it right? Number two - an eleven year old should not be watching porn. Period. And most especially with their parents. I've had all the discussions with my kid about sex ed. We communicate openly about sex, whether she should or not, possible repercussions, how the act itself works, etc. Not easy talks, but for the best for her. But there is no way on God's green earth that I would ever, ever watch sex with her. Of course she knows her parents had, and continue to have, sex. But we don't talk about the details. And, finally, third - no condoms? Big, big mistake.
If it is just adults involved and all agree - knock yourself out. I couldn't care less. I have no right and no inclination to judge. But when you have a kid and you're doing something you have to hide from them, you're making bad decisions.
The one thing that keeps irking me about a lot of comments is the whole "hiding it from their kids." Do you have sex with your door open? Do you tell your kids that you and daddy did it doggy style the other night? NO. OBVIOUSLY their children will find out, didn't yours find out you have sex? At that time, I'm sure they will come up with a mature way to discuss it. If not, ultimately it is none of the kids' business what / how the parents are having sex.
You didn't read my whole post. I specifically mentioned the fact that our child of course knows that we have sex. That isn't the issue. Nobody shares such details with their children. But hiding an entire relationship? Bit different, I think. And how a parent lives their life IS a child's "business", especially at that age. A minor child is affected by what their parents do in so many ways. If this is truly how they wish to live and they don't feel some sort of underlying shame, then they need to have that conversation with their child NOW, not after he finds out about it from his classmates.
I literally just lawled at your response. No, I don't think it's a bit different at all. It is their sex life - not a relationship. Please learn the difference prior to throwing those accusations. And again, NO. It is not their children's' business how / what they chose to do to get off. Also, and this was the funniest part, if they are hiding it from their children (which they obviously aren't any more) how in God's name are their classmates going to find out?
I wasn't throwing around accusations. It's really quite ironic that you are at least as judgmental and close-minded as you appear to think everyone else is, but you don't appear to see it in yourself. I've stated my opinion. That's what forums such as this are for. You're free to yours, as well, but I think you're wrong to attack others for theirs. I don't agree with you, and I think you're missing the point of what I've said, but I'm not going to debate it further with you. There's many things I could say to you to refute your misunderstanding of what I've said, but you've made up your mind and none of it would get through to you, so I won't bother to do so. Individuals such as yourself, who are obviously not open to free and honest discussion, are the reason I so rarely post to this site. Have a great day.
I'm pretty sure we're having a discussion right now, so I'm clearly open to it. And before you walk away, please explain how I am close minded? By believing everyone is open to spending their lives happily? I am not attacking anyone. I am trying to get people to at least understand that there is no black and white to marriage and that what others do should not be judged simply because it is not the way you live your life.
We are not having a discussion. You are too busy telling my why I'm wrong for us to have a discussion. I don't agree with what you've said, but I'm not being disrespectful or derisive or treating your posts with obvious contempt. That kind of attitude, the attitude of "I'm right and you're wrong" is what inhibits free and honest discussion. if you had truly read my post with an open mind, you'd have seen that I specifically stated that there's a lot of ambiguity in what makes a marriage.
Of course everyone should seek their own happiness. But responsible adults do that in such a way that it causes no harm to others. When you have a child, whether you like it or not, you have to consider them in EVERY decision you make. I'm not judging them. I don't care what they do. I'm simply making the point that perhaps they could make some better decisions for the child.
Porn? A whole other couple included in your marriage that he doesn't know about? Hiding it from him (which, yes, the couple stated they were doing)? It would be very easy for the child to find out from a classmate. Picture this: you're that kid. Mommy and daddy go on TV and tell the country that Uncle Joe and Aunt Linda are sharing their beds. You had no idea, but because Timmy heard his mommy and daddy talking about a show they saw on TV, he came to school and told you all about it, and now some of your classmates are teasing you about it and calling you a freak. Sound at all feasible? If you have kids, you know that it is all too feasible. My point about the kid was - be good parents. You wanna do the beast with two backs with Aunt Linda and Uncle Joe? Have at it. But figure out a way to explain it to the kid so he doesn't end up with unnecessary scars, because his well-being is your responsibility.
I am with you 100% on the porn issue - which is completely idiotic on the parents' part. Also, it was so not the right way for the child to find out, that was a fault on the parents.0 -
I don't really see the whole point of being married if you're going to open it up & invite other people into your bed.
It's just odd.
(Don't bother jumping on my back because you don't agree with my opinion, there's no point; there are no right or wrong opinions).0 -
I think it's a million times more healthy to be in an open marriage where both parties were happy & filling thier sexual needs, as opposed to a loveless, sexless marriage that many people seem to accept as normal these days.
THIS^ I pity the fool who gets to do it missionary, once every 2-3 months with his wife. Do you think he'd ever tell her he's unhappy, probably not.
I don't condone cheating but I have to wonder what women expect when they hold out on their husbands. Or vice versa.
I'd rather have a happy satifying sex life and relationship that my partner and I agree on. Anyone who thinks differently is either exceptionally lucky that neither partner wants to explore or insanely jealous.
Who holds out on their husbands and only does it one way? That's sort of generalizing... and 3 times a month? Also generalizing and I would NOT be happy with 3xs a month unless my husband or I were away and it was unavoidable. What works for us doesn't work for everyone and some people have a lot less sex or much more "boring" sex... not sure if they're happy about it or not, none of my business really... but if you think your sex life is boring or not frequent enough, why not work on fixing that together? I will say yes - I feel lucky in my marriage but also that if I wasn't fulfilled by my husband I wouldn't have married him.
There are so many couples in this situation and so many ways it happens.. This is pointed out often in pop culture... For example in 'Date Night' where the couple argues if they are going to have sex and if they are going to do the quick version. I can't tell you how many times I've heard older men say that they haven't had sex in months or even years. Or have overheard women complaining that their husbands were masturbating or caught them looking at porn but "we just had sex a few weeks ago."
I think more often then not one partner doesn't mention the issue to the other because they have tried and failed or are afraid of what MAY happen.0 -
I didn't watch either but to each their own.
My husband asks if he can have a second wife all the time. I say if she cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids and him.... I am all for it!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
I have friends in this situation and have known people over the years who have tried it to breathe life into their marriage or do this for a last chance type of thing. Every couple I've known that has tried it has run into problems - jealousy, bickering, divorce in the end, or they leave their current partner for someone they meet and fall in love with. Families suffer. Boundaries become blurred and secrets are kept.
I'm not saying it doesn't work for some people who are truly open about it and ok with it, but I would think that percentage of people would be in the minority. I don't think we are built that way as a majority.
I am ok with whatever works for consenting adults but its not for me and I know my husband wouldn't go for it.0 -
If you have contact with at least ONE other person, then you have formulated a relationship in one way or another. Even if it's fleeting, momentary, hell - I have a trust/respect relationship with every other driver around me every day. I trust they will not drive into me, and respect them enough that I will not run into them. But **** happens and sometimes you crash. Technically, each time I get behind the wheel, I am Married to the rules of the road and in a relationship with everyone around me.
Marriage is really about the way you both choose to relate to each other: Sexually, emotionally, financially, etc. "Open" really means that the rules that couple are following are outside the 'traditional' definition of marriage. The one that is better for you is the one in which you are the happiest in - that you can make work. Turmoil and crashes will follow either one; and FAILURE is all but guaranteed if you are not able to express yourself and be heard and understood in EITHER type of marriage.
Why does both marriage AND divorce both exist? Cause people are not perfect and while they may respect each other enough to make certain promises, time passes, they change, they take their eyes off the road sort of speak, and crash.
I've been married and divorced 2x. The first time -my bad. The second -her bad. Neither relationship was open, but covenants were not kept. Love in the first. Restraint from alcohol on the second. Even IF we would have had a open marriage, because those particular covenants were not kept, divorce was inevitable.
My ultimate idea of a 'perfect marriage': I want to grow old with a special woman who cherishes me, values me, knows my **** stinks, calls me on it, and stimulates me physically and mentally. On my death bed I want to look back at my 'marriage' and think "she was, is, and will always be the best part of me."0
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