Ugh, The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance

I hate people

This sums it up nicely. Have a good night all.

Bollocks. The issues getting in people's way, the majority of the time, are their self control. I'm perfectly fine with a sedentary lifestyle filled with crap food being demonized. It's much better than ignoring the problem or promoting it as a perfectly fine lifestyle choice.

First, it's not really up to you what I do with my life. Second, I'm really happy for you that you have the self confidence right now to look at yourself, say "Poo, I probably ought to slow down eating this crap and move around a bit more, I'm filling out a bit around the middle". Really, I am. That's not sarcasm. I'm glad that you are there. My point is that a lot of people are not there, and telling them that their self-control is the problem is, again, calling them lazy. It's not going to make them feel better, it's not going to make them deny the one thing that they can rely on to give them comfort, and it's certainly not going to motivate them to get up and move around.

If you'd spent your entire life being told your "insert body part here" was horrifically ugly and you should be ashamed of it, you'd believe it. If I've spent my entire life being told I'm just lazy, imaging how good I'd feel about myself, how motivated to take care of myself, how inspiring that must be for me. My self-worth would be rock bottom. Why would I bother to change it?

(To the hypothetical person you are speaking of)
This is why: To prove to others and MAINLY yourself that NO you are not lazy, and NO you are not ugly. The self defeated attitude doesn't hinder anyone else but yourself. It isn't what other people call you, but what you answer to. You can't depend on others for motivation, it comes from yourself. And there are many of people on this site that wouldn't necessarily say they are motivated every day, and sometimes they feel like *kitten* and don't want to continue but they do. You can't wallow in self pity forever, eventually you are going to have to change it. And i personally won't feel sorry for somebody that feels sorry enough for themselves. I can be sensitive to obesity, but i cant be sensitive to self defeated attitudes. That's just lame.

Ah, so THIS is why it's okay to shame kids? Because if the Disney cartoon shows all skinny kids that are heros and all fat kids that are bad, and kids take away that they're bad if they're fat (and almost worse, that they're automatically a hero if they're skinny) it's their fault they have a "lame defeated attitude?"

I didn't know we were talking about children due to the words in your post such as "in your entire life" and "a lot of people" you never said children, and neither did I. I'm not for shaming children in any way. And neither is Disney, the villains were overweight i guess ( i haven't seen them) but i didn't hear that they were kids, so i don't see how the kids are being shamed with that either. Am i for the skinny people being heroes and the fat people being villains, well no. Do i think that usually most obese people are unhealthy, absolutely. Some of them aren't, but lets be honest that is an exception to the rule, and most people are the rule not the exception. I don't think all skinny people are healthy either, a lot of them aren't. I could run circles around a couple of my skinny friends. However what i was saying was i would never ridicule an obese person, or shame them. But if somebody came to me and said "Why should i change my weight when all my life people have told me that i was ugly or lazy" then my reply is exactly what i would say to them. Okay you're obese, if you don't like it change it! If you do like it roll with it, but don't bring your children down with you. Teach them to eat healthy and give them that option. I don't agree with the villain situation in this post, or the shaming of children. But lets face it bad food isn't going anywhere. If you don't like the disney idea so much, why don't you come up with a way to educate them in a less condescending way, that doesn't cause them to feel sorry for themselves. Have at it!

I don't have to. Mrs. Obama already has. And I never said "in your entire life" OR "a lot of people." That was someone else. This thread is about Disney taking heat for an Epcot show where the villains are fat and the heros are skinny. I support NAAFA'S objections to it because in real life not all fat kids are unhealthy and not all skinny kids are healthy (a lot aren't) and vilifying fat people while portraying skinny people as heros isn't likely to lead to healthier kids and will likely lead to bullying.

Well i was responding to another post with my reply, and that's what i said to it. I never said that the Disney show was a good idea geesh! Someone asked a question and i answered it. You're the one that took what i said to the disney show which i wasn't even talking about . I'm not in disagreement with you regarding the disney show so why are you attacking my opinions when they are the same. I don't think the disney show is a good idea in terms of villains or heroes . But i mean it IS true that bad health choices can lead to obesity, i think that's the message they were trying to send, it was just a poor execution. It is clearly getting shut down till it's improved so what difference does it make anyways.

Then why did you reply to me?

What actually would have taken place in the exhibit?

Maybe Will Power helped Lead Bottom to get healthy? Wouldn't that be a positive message?

As someone has said above - you can't be obese and healthy. And yes there might be people who are eating healthily and be obese, which means they are on the right track - those people should see this as a good thing surely! I don't see how it would encourage teasing and bullying just by saying that healthy is good, unhealthy is bad.

Have you ever actually dealt with or watched a group of kids? They will pick apart "the other" with ravenous delight without actually thinking about reality. So that obese 12 year sees the exhibit, becomes confused because he or she actually trying to change her or his life through better habits and doesn't understand why he's the villain all of a sudden (because the fact that the villains are really behaviors and not people isn't literal enough), and the rest of the pack start making fun of him or her. That's reality.

A better solution would be teams of speakers, some of whom are fit and some of whom aren't, being seen working together to talk about good behaviors instead of being pitted against each other in a fictitious battle of good vs evil--when the real issue is cause and effect, not good vs evil.

I gotta be honest, this post sounds like it was written based on seeing how kids act through TV movies and teen TV shows, rather than real life. Maybe my childhood was strange, but growing up, I never saw or dealt with roving bands of children/teens going out of their way to pick apart "the other." We were actually rather accepting of people looking different. All of our judgement was reserved for attitudes and actions. And I see the same thing with my daughter, my niece, my nephew and their friends. Kids aren't as stupid as you're making them out to be. An obese kid that's taking steps to change his obesity sees that exhibit, and he doesn't see himself as the villain, he sees himself as being part of the fight against the villains.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, I guess. My experiences and first-hand observations just lead me to a different conclusion than yours do.

EDIT: I'm not so sure it's that I think they're stupid. I think that as a group, children are cruel and lack empathy.

So, so true:

Proverbs 22:15

15Folly is bound up in the heart of a child;
The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

This is why although I do have a lot of kids over to visit my own children, i make sure there is constant supervision. With kids, even fairly young ones, things can get ugly all too quickly. It's sad but true.

If children are properly informed and educated, they will have that understanding of what behavior is good and what is bad. If they are not, then they are not. bad eating habits and habits in general are developed not inborn.

True, hence the second part of the verse. A child needs to be instructed from a young age to learn right vs. wrong, healthy habits vs. unhealthy, etc.

Do you believe that fat people deserve to be discriminated against? What about people of color? What about the disabled?

Let's be clear. People don't have a choice in their color. People don't typically control their disability and I personally consider obesity due to organ failure / not working properly. However, people that are lazy and don't eat right I have no sympathy for. And their laziness does impact the general public, primarily through our health insurance. Obesity does feed into the increasing cost of healthcare along with smokers (no sympathy for them either). Even on a more selfish level, last week I flew to NJ and had to watch my colleague be completely uncomfortable on a flight because a very overweight man sat next to her and was literally spilling over onto her and she was mooshed up against the cabin wall for 6 hours. Is that fair?

You think that's offensive? You should hear how they treat their employees...

Personal crap aside, I'm wondering where in Epcot that was because just last year I was there for two days and walked the entire park and never saw anything like that. But y'know maybe it's just me but some of the newer generations of parents get offended if you look at them wrong. I mean look at the uproar a couple parents caused over a My Little Pony character because she had wonky eyes and was referred to as "derpy", something they instantly said was the equivalent of "retarded" and therefore offensive to mentally challenged/disabled kids.

The world today...

It hasn't opened yet, and, at this point, probably won't.

Actually, it did soft open. It was open for roughly two weeks before complaints were high enough from the majority of park guests that they closed it again to work on retooling parts of the attraction before doing another soft opening.

It is located in innoventions east, where the waste management recycling game used to be, across from Sum of All Thrills.


I think what makes me angriest about the whole exhibit is that food isn't black and white. The kids are supposed to "shoot the bad food". There is NO such thing as bad food- ANY food is bad for you in excess. There is NO problem with having an occasional bowl of ice cream, or a candy bar.

The obsession with other people's health is unhealthy in itself. You are responsible only for your own health, not every adult in the world's health.

I don't see how FitLink has been inconsistent. It's possible people aren't understanding what's being said. We're responsible for our own health and actions. It can be also true that factors outside of our control do influence us.

Are we responsible for our own obesity? Sure. It's also true that people can feel powerless and defeated due to the actions of others. We can tell them that they're the one's in control 50 times every hour on the hour and it won't a make a difference if something else is going on causing them to not truly believe it.

And even if they do believe they're in control, seeing people shaped like them vilified can very reasonably be interpreted as demotivating.

I'm saying, since a more polite approach didn't sink in, that IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS IF OTHER PEOPLE ARE UNHEALTHY OR FAT! Your responsibility begins and ends with YOU! You needn't concern yourself with whether other adults have healthy lifestyles, and it's unhealthy FOR YOU if you do.

@silverkittyca, not, MikeSEA. Thanks, Mike!

so FitLink, I guess that was a BAD on my part to spend my day building a community garden down in Ybor. I don't live there...none of my business if those poor kids have:noway: no vegetables. Got it.

I dont see how you connected those dots.
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It's a bad on your part if you believe you have the right to force people to eat those vegetables. There is nothing wrong in being generous. There IS something wrong in making decisions for other people. Making vegetables available for people who can't afford them is admirable, as long as you don't connect it to some obligation on their part. But we don't decide for other adults how to eat, and we don't shame children.

BTW, your attempt to paint yourself as a selfless defender of the poor failed. You are a selfish jerk.
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I defended you, and I think turnabout is fair play. Silverkittyca is actually not a selfish jerk. She's even on my friends list. She's quite supportive. We have slightly different views on this though and it's a pretty emotional topic for a lot us. No need for name calling.
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She's well aware that "your responsibility begins and ends with you" means that "I make my health decisions and you make yours" and has nothing to do with the social responsibility of helping others in ways that edify them. Neither of us deserves less than dignity or equality, even if we were to decide to live on Twinkies and Coca-Cola for the rest of our lives. There is nothing inconsistent about believing that shaming children (or adults for that matter) will likely make any weight problem worse (and for that matter, fat isn't necessarily = unhealthy and skinny isn't necessarily = healthy) and that every adult makes his/her own health decisions, and unless you're asked, it's not your business. I appreciate that you and she are friends, but it's NOT supportive to decide you know what is best for everyone. I have not painted myself as a victim, and in the post you replied to she specifically stated that I did. ("Make up your mind, are you a victim...") That, more than anything makes her appear to be a jerk.

Do you believe that fat people deserve to be discriminated against? What about people of color? What about the disabled?

Let's be clear. People don't have a choice in their color. People don't typically control their disability and I personally consider obesity due to organ failure / not working properly. However, people that are lazy and don't eat right I have no sympathy for. And their laziness does impact the general public, primarily through our health insurance. Obesity does feed into the increasing cost of healthcare along with smokers (no sympathy for them either). Even on a more selfish level, last week I flew to NJ and had to watch my colleague be completely uncomfortable on a flight because a very overweight man sat next to her and was literally spilling over onto her and she was mooshed up against the cabin wall for 6 hours. Is that fair?

If that overweight person is making your flight uncomfortable, but what you don't know is that they've actually already lost 30lbs and are working pretty hard to get healthier, are they still lazy and deserve your apparent contempt.

It must be nice to be all knowing.

I'm sorry but if I was in her friend's situation I would be pissed too. If he's on the right track good for him, but that doesn't mean her friend should have to be uncomfortable.

Thankfully no one is saying they should be uncomfortable. I'm just pointing out that assuming a stranger is lazy because they're obese is superficial.

Do you believe that fat people deserve to be discriminated against? What about people of color? What about the disabled?

Let's be clear. People don't have a choice in their color. People don't typically control their disability and I personally consider obesity due to organ failure / not working properly. However, people that are lazy and don't eat right I have no sympathy for. And their laziness does impact the general public, primarily through our health insurance. Obesity does feed into the increasing cost of healthcare along with smokers (no sympathy for them either). Even on a more selfish level, last week I flew to NJ and had to watch my colleague be completely uncomfortable on a flight because a very overweight man sat next to her and was literally spilling over onto her and she was mooshed up against the cabin wall for 6 hours. Is that fair?

If that overweight person is making your flight uncomfortable, but what you don't know is that they've actually already lost 30lbs and are working pretty hard to get healthier, are they still lazy and deserve your apparent contempt.

It must be nice to be all knowing.

I'm sorry but if I was in her friend's situation I would be pissed too. If he's on the right track good for him, but that doesn't mean her friend should have to be uncomfortable.

Thankfully no one is saying they should be uncomfortable. I'm just pointing out that assuming a stranger is lazy because they're obese is superficial.

But you know what.....everyone has biases,judgements etc. Whether they want to admit it or not. Im not saying its ok to treat overweight people badly, they absolutely are people too. But the world is not perfect. Its human nature to judge, everyone does it. You did it by deciding she was superficial. And I don't think that makes you an awful person, it was a normal conclusion to jump to. As is someone who is morbidly obese does not eat right or exercise enough.

Do you believe that fat people deserve to be discriminated against? What about people of color? What about the disabled?

Let's be clear. People don't have a choice in their color. People don't typically control their disability and I personally consider obesity due to organ failure / not working properly. However, people that are lazy and don't eat right I have no sympathy for. And their laziness does impact the general public, primarily through our health insurance. Obesity does feed into the increasing cost of healthcare along with smokers (no sympathy for them either). Even on a more selfish level, last week I flew to NJ and had to watch my colleague be completely uncomfortable on a flight because a very overweight man sat next to her and was literally spilling over onto her and she was mooshed up against the cabin wall for 6 hours. Is that fair?

If that overweight person is making your flight uncomfortable, but what you don't know is that they've actually already lost 30lbs and are working pretty hard to get healthier, are they still lazy and deserve your apparent contempt.

It must be nice to be all knowing.

I'm sorry but if I was in her friend's situation I would be pissed too. If he's on the right track good for him, but that doesn't mean her friend should have to be uncomfortable.

People dont' have a choice about their color. Disability? Not so much. Sure some people don't have a choice, but not all fat people have a choice about being fat either, and you can't pick out either group by looking. Sometimes people are disabled by unhealthy choices they made, just like you assume all fat people are (that's not true, BTW). Should we have the right to quiz all people about their lifestyles and see if their weight or disability is for something we deem "not their fault" or would it make more sense to decide that ALL PEOPLE deserve dignity and equality and quit deciding who deserves it and who doesn't. Meanwhile, the airline seat space thing is way more complicated. Again, unless you know all about that person, you have NO WAY of knowing if he is one of the few people who really do have a medical reason for their weight. Airline seats are too small and getting smaller. I've had my space infringed upon by a seatmate who was very tall (at least 7 foot, he was unable to stand up onboard). Can we discriminate against him? I have a right to be comfortable, don't I? Is my comfort less important than your coworker's because you've decided his seatmate was "lazy" and mine was merely tall because of his genetics? It's just not that simple, is it?

Wow. What an ugly community. All I am seeing here is a bunch of formerly-fat people on health kicks ragging on other fat people who haven't decided to make a change.

This is the last place I would have expected to see commentary like this.

Yes, telling people that they're fat and too lazy to get off the couch and too lazy to bother to chop up some veggies and too lazy to even walk around, reminding them that they are the cause of the increasing healthy costs and their kids are fat and teased and bullied because of them, and they're just damn ugly and no on wants to see them...... yeah, that totally educates and motivates people and creates the healthy mind they need in order start their 'weightloss journey'. Then they can join your superior 'healthy' club.

Stop parading around like you're all God's gift just because you have realised that you CAN make a change.

I usually see a lot of encouragement and kindness, compassion and understanding in this community, but this is appalling. I expected much more sensitive discussion.

EDIT: oh right... see how me naming and shaming you doesn't help, make you stop, or make you reconsider your thoughts, feelings and actions? how did you react? you felt agitated, self righteous, etc... and i failed to motivate a change. Let this horrible discussion roll on~

The topic of this thread is, The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. Obesity should not be accepted. Are people insensitive to smokers?? Nope, there's TV commercials all over the air going after smokers and tobacco companies. Restaurants, casino's, stores won't allow smoking. How is obesity any different? Aside from legitimate organ failure that leads to obesity, obesity is a choice, period. The original poster was more specifically talking about children which is even worse because not just is it unhealthy but you have parents basically neglecting their kids.

It's about accepting fat PEOPLE. Even if they make choices you disagree with, they're still PEOPLE. And unlike smoking, they affect only themselves. Don't start with me about "health insurance rates" and "rising health care costs" because it's crap. It's expensive to deal with cancer but we don't vilify people who tan. Motorcycling is dangerous and can result in HUGE health care costs but we don't say motorcyclists don't deserve dignity and equality. Many sports result in expensive injuries but we don't vilify athletes. It's a silly argument and it justifies bigotry.

Furthermore, the Disney Epcot thing isn't about parents. It's about shaming kids, and that is wrong, and more importantly it doesn't work!