Dangers of Vegetarian & Vegan Diets Long-Term

Not only does she compare them, but she finds the castrated bull to be the worse offense.

never said that. i said that i have never seen a starving child. therefore, i don't feel i have the right to speak about starving children because i try not to speak about things i don't know. i never said starvation isn't a problem. it is a problem. i donate to the local food bank. i can't say i've ever donated to a charity that delivers food to a third-world country (although i was known to spend hours a day playing on freerice.com back in high school), simply because a number of those charities have been known to scam money out of people or use funds raised to pay their officers rather than benefit the supposed recipients.

For those of you arguing that pigs are as intelligent as dogs and "would you eat your dog", you obviously have not been to Korea.

I think its great if you are vegetarian, or vegan. But the idea that it is a "choice" for everyone is very narrow minded. Its a big world and the arguments for vegetarianism are only valid in the western world (if that).

Its a personal choice.

As for animal rights: Seriously? Why don't we start with starving children and make our way from there.


...in my opinion

The main staple of Asian diets are rice, vegetables, legumes, and fish. Very little red meat is eaten by the poor in Asia.

There are several other cultures that believe in vegetarianism. Much of the population of India, Malaysia, Vietnam, and Thaiwan refrains from eating meat. So to say that vegetarianism is an American thing is ignorant.

Western world is not just the U.S. You're completely right, there are many people that do not eat meat for religious beliefs. My example of eating dog in SK was just for the "pig" argument (I would never eat dog...just doesn't sound delicious.)

Very little red meat is eaten by the poor in Asia because they are poor and cannot afford meat...not because they are vegetarian.

I think you missed my point a little bit. I was talking about the people in the world that DONT have a choice (as i stated, it is not a choice for EVERYONE...obviously many people CAN make that decision). If meat is available, it is consumed to stay alive.

Excuse my caps...I have no idea how to make my words bold haha.

(p.s. I DO admire those who make this choice. I am one of the people that CAN make the choice. I unfortunately lack the discipline, willpower, and motivation to do so.)

I wouldn't appreciate that. I also wouldn't appreciate having to watch my child slowly starve to death and suffer horrible pain while I also starved to death because I didn't have enough food to feed myself or my child. In that context, kill the bull so my child and I can live.

if you're living in some world where the bull is the only edible thing and you are starving, fine. in that case, i would eat the bull too. but you've lost 54 pounds so far, which implies that you were at least 54 pounds overweight, which then implies that you are not starving.

Me being overweight has no relevance to the millions of people around the world dying of starvation. If I have to choose between worrying about human beings dying of starvation, or ethical treatment of other animals, I'm going to worry about the humans first. Same when I think about the fact that people are being slaughtered over in Syria because they DARED try and rebel against cruel dictatorship, compared to how ethically the chicken I'm eating for dinner was raised.

Good point. These dictators are depriving people of food and people are worried about eating meat or plants.

I also wanted to add vegeterians/vegans eat plants which provide oxygen, they are killing ALL OF USSSSSSSSSSSSS.

Nowhere near the amount of oxygen that is ruined when mc d's and burger king clear cut rain forest for cattle... nope, I think that destroys a whole lot more oxygen producing plants, not to mention the possible cure to cancer that grows in such environments and we may have lost forever....

plants do not have brains. They do not have hearts (not even artichokes)

I am a vegetarian who cares about animals a great deal. Having said that, the ignorance and small-mindedness of some of the vegetarians/vegans in this thread is pretty sickening. Self-righteousness is an unattractive quality.

Standing up for what you believe in and expressing your beliefs on a public forum is not self-righteous. You obviously have a different belief. Why don't you enlighten us?

This self-acclaimed 'vegetarian' poster frequently makes statements of this sort. She likes criticizing other vegetarians in public fora. Only she knows why. Notice that she hasn't criticized the omnivores here, even though they aren't angels in every posting.

I am a vegetarian who cares about animals a great deal. Having said that, the ignorance and small-mindedness of some of the vegetarians/vegans in this thread is pretty sickening. Self-righteousness is an unattractive quality.

Standing up for what you believe in and expressing your beliefs on a public forum is not self-righteous. You obviously have a different belief. Why don't you enlighten us all with your superior teachings.

If I thought it would make a difference, I would. I will say that I think people should be more tolerant of the choices other people make, and I don't think negatively judging others for living differently is an effective way to change minds.

EDITED

Jeff92se,

You have way, WAY too much time on your hands. Grow up.

Have you every seen a cow rape and pillage and torture other pigs then burn a village to the ground?

yes

you can't unsee that.................

I am a vegetarian who cares about animals a great deal. Having said that, the ignorance and small-mindedness of some of the vegetarians/vegans in this thread is pretty sickening. Self-righteousness is an unattractive quality.

Standing up for what you believe in and expressing your beliefs on a public forum is not self-righteous. You obviously have a different belief. Why don't you enlighten us?

This self-claimed 'vegetarian' poster frequently makes statements of this sort. She likes criticizing other vegetarians in public fora. Only she knows why. Notice that she hasn't criticized the omnivores here, even though they aren't angels in every posting.

Frequently? I believe this is perhaps the second or third time I have even responded to one of these threads, mainly because they are pointless. In this case, I was reacting to the "starving children" remark, and the implication that people who eat meat have been poorly brought up by their parents.

Well, at least we know what you are reacting to, now. I've seen you use this general chiding technique before, and never know what you are talking about.

I would just like to see people on both sides of this issue leave each other alone. I have made my choice about what I will and won't eat, but that doesn't mean I should be forcing my beliefs on anyone else. Nobody likes that, whether it's about religion, how to raise children, how to drive, etc. Unfortunately, this kind of behaviour exists on both sides. You may not have ever seen me react to the other side of the argument, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

The inability in animals to reason is why they do not have rights. I wish vegans cared as much about human beings as they do about my food supply.

So that means that infants and mentally challenged people have no rights?

Logical fallacy

Yes. Your comment that the sole reason why animals have no rights is because they are unable to reason (which is actually not true, it is free will that sets them apart) is illogical. This would imply that other beings, such as infants and the mentally handicapped should also, by default, not have rights.
Which "rights" are we talking about anyways. Americans have very different rights than North Koreans. Are we talking about the right to life? Well, there are humans that we deem not entitled to life. That's why we have the death penalty in many states. Are these the rights that you speak of?

http://www.unalienable.com/unalien.htm

There isn't a country in this world where all of man's rights are protected. We should fight for them and support any individuals which do so.

Animals are property

Wow, quite possibly the most ignorant comment I've ever seen. Comparing eating meat to slavery is a whole new level of ignorance.

I am a vegetarian who cares about animals a great deal. Having said that, the ignorance and small-mindedness of some of the vegetarians/vegans in this thread is pretty sickening. Self-righteousness is an unattractive quality.

Standing up for what you believe in and expressing your beliefs on a public forum is not self-righteous. You obviously have a different belief. Why don't you enlighten us?

This self-claimed 'vegetarian' poster frequently makes statements of this sort. She likes criticizing other vegetarians in public fora. Only she knows why. Notice that she hasn't criticized the omnivores here, even though they aren't angels in every posting.

Frequently? I believe this is perhaps the second or third time I have even responded to one of these threads, mainly because they are pointless. In this case, I was reacting to the "starving children" remark, and the implication that people who eat meat have been poorly brought up by their parents.

Well, at least we know what you are reacting to, now. I've seen you use this general chiding technique before, and never know what you are talking about.

obviously you can see this was a counter to your post earlier about meat causing you to die . . . . . .
People that enjoy meat, will not give it up. People that have moral reasons for not eating it, won't eat it. You can live a healthy life either way. The two viewpoints are where things get messy..............We (omnivores) think its silly to not eat meat, becaue we enjoy it..........we think its silly............whereas vegans(not all mind you) want to condemn people who eat meat as savages. There is nothing savage about buying a piece of a dead animal and eating it. If you have a problem with the way it became dead..........take it up with those people. Its already dead, so I am eating it, and its good.

Yes, the OP here got frustrated when I didn't pick up the gauntlet when he started making things personal on the 'Meat and early mortality' thread. I simply ignored him. So, he created this thread. Big whoop. If you are saying I was one of those people 'condemning people who eat meat as savages' read the other thread. I never said anything of the sort. I merely posted a link about a news breaking story from yesterday.

As for animal rights: Seriously? Why don't we start with starving children and make our way from there.

personally, i don't know any starving children. i have never seen a starving child. i'm not denying that it's an actual problem, but i've never seen it myself. most of the children i see are obese or overweight, more often than not.

you are incredibly ignorant. while many children are overweight, many are not. many children go to sleep hungry every night.

http://feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/hunger-facts/child-hunger-facts.aspx

As for animal rights: Seriously? Why don't we start with starving children and make our way from there.

personally, i don't know any starving children. i have never seen a starving child. i'm not denying that it's an actual problem, but i've never seen it myself. most of the children i see are obese or overweight, more often than not.

you are incredibly ignorant. while many children are overweight, many are not. many children go to sleep hungry every night.

http://feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/hunger-facts/hunger-and-poverty-statistics.aspx

i'm being "incredibly ignorant" by saying i've never seen a starving child? here, let me quote myself: "i'm not denying that it's an actual problem, but i've never seen it myself."
the fact that i've never seen a starving child doesn't make me ignorant. if anything, it would make me not worldly. which i don't claim to be.

Look, I can understand that you've obviously lived an incredibly sheltered life, but If you can't see how bringing up slavery is ignorant and offensive, then I have nothing to say.

Do animals have rights? If they can survive by themselves, then they have the right to live until they die or are killed. If they require human intervention to survive, then they have the right to live as long as humans intervene to keep them that way.

I got an idea, why don't you walk right up to a black person, and tell them that animals are just as much slaves as their ancestors were. See how much they appreciate that sentiment.

would you have said that to me if i wasn't white?
i never said anything about black slaves. there were jewish slaves. there were roman slaves. there were greek slaves. there are south asian slaves. there are sex slaves. there are debt slaves. i never said anything about race or even what kind of slaves. i simply said slaves.