im not taking anything away from those who have lost a lot o

I think anyone who devotes their time and attention to being healthy deserves to be commended ... whether that means losing weight, gaining weight, or maintaining their natural blessings. I don't think it matters so much what someone was born with, as much as what they do with it.

I respect people who have struggled or continue to do so - there is honor in the effort. I respect people who (seemingly) don't have to try, or have some natural inclination towards health and fitness that I myself have had to learn. The truth is, you never really know what someone has gone through to be where they are. There are people out there who practice portion control, make healthy choices, and are active without giving it much thought - it's just how they are wired. There are people (like me) who have to make those choices more consiously. And still there are others who have it all together on the surface, but internally are struggling with health issues or body image issues, or whatever. You never know what's going on in someone's head, really.

There are lessons to be learned from every perspective, so everyone should have a place to contribute here.

This seems kind of silly to me. I know MANY people who are slim, but I don't go around congratulating them because of how they naturally look. If they put effort into their health, I would absolutely commend them. My sister, for example, is tiny and in my opinion has the perfect body. However, she does nothing to achieve this body. She eats the junkiest food and is way lazier than me. I'm not going to tell her how amazing she is for doing nothing to accomplish her perfect body. Doesn't make any sense to do that. She congratulates me when I lose weight and take steps toward improving my health because I am working very hard at it and she knows that.

I have a former skinny 'friend' who put me down for gaining so much weight and even smiled about it when she herself was at one time bigger than me. I used to be envious until I realized how healthy I am now and the fact that she's probably thin because she's a chain smoker and drinks a LOT. That kind of abuse also ages people quicker.

Like some of the previous posters have said, there is a healthy skinny and an unhealthy skinny.

P.S. I can't wait to see her this summer, at the one time I can't avoid running into her, and show off my healthier, thinner body.

Any chance we could all just try to stop generalizing?
Maybe those "skinny" people have good genes, maybe they work at it all the time, maybe they have a medical disorder, maybe they constantly battle ED.
And maybe those "fat" people have bad genes, maybe they weren't taught the basics of a healthy lifestyle, maybe the have a medical disorder, maybe they constantly battle ED.
Who cares? We are all here to better ourselves. Why does it matter in which way or why?

I know a woman with an amazing body. She just turned 30, she's about 5'2" and weighs less than 110. After having 2 kids, her stomach is amazingly flat. But she's far from healthy. She eats nothing but junk, chain smokes and is a severe alcoholic.

I know another woman with an amazing body. She is my age, my height, and weighs just shy of 120. She has never been overweight, other than perhaps a few pounds. She eats organic and gluten free 100% of the time, exercises regularly and is someone I really look up to for her dedication to wellness.

And then there's Demi Moore. Just pick up any magazine at the grocery store to hear about her weight and age insecurities and how it's driven her to extremes.

We are all individuals with individual problems, successes and insecurities. Everyone on MFP is here to better their health. So GREAT JOB to everyone who chooses to wake up, log into MFP, track their food & exercise, and work to be healthy!!!!

"External recognition" matters when you consider the environment here on MFP. About this time last week there was a post bashing the NAAFA's (National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance) objections to a Disney World exhibit that portrayed the skinny kids in it as heros and the fat ones as villains. Some people felt this was wrong because shaming kids won't make them healthier, and also, just because a kid is skinny doesn't make him/her healthy. There's way more to it. Some people thought it was okay to shame fat kids because it's important to their health. HUGE numbers of people said things like "an organization like NAAFA shouldn't exist because we shouldn't accept fat people, and fat is ugly and unhealthy." Remember, this organization is advocating for accepting fat PEOPLE, not FAT. No distinction was made between healthier vs unhealthier. Fat people shouldn't be accepted, and judging them based on appearance is acceptable. Although most people agreed that skinny =/= healthy, they didn't advocate judging them, since we couldn't know a stranger's fitness level. (Something we apparently can for the fat person.) Earlier this week I replied to a post from a woman who has lost 29 pounds here on MFP. She's still got maybe 50 pounds to her goal but she's made amazing progress. She was pretty nastily made fun of while out one evening, and she expressed how demoralizing that was and how she had wanted to give up, since despite all her work, she was still being made fun of. Many of the same people who oppose the NAAFA's advocacy of acceptance of fat PEOPLE, shared this woman's outrage at being made fun of after all her hard work. The fact is, the people making fun didn't know she was working hard and was more than a third of the way to her goal. All he could see was FAT. Since we can't know what another's fitness level is or how hard they are working when we see them out shopping or on the town, it seems like it might be prudent not to judge people based on weight, which is what the NAAFA advocates.

Just my $0.02.

Can't argue that. Well said.

To those people who say that it is just down to luck and genetics - I say bull****.

There is very little difference in the way 2 different people metabolise food. There is a difference however in how much people eat.

I know people will disagree and never believe it to be true, but being someone who has always been thin, and having one of my best mates as someone who was over 20 stone, and having in depth discussions, we have both come to some realisations.

The main one was that I Was thin because I ate significantly less than him.

Not because I was 'lucky' or had some magical triple speed metabolism.

If it was the case that everyone's metabolism was so far apart then the calculations used to work out your BMR wouldn't work.

People have always said that I eat loads, I never stop eating and I'm so lucky that I can just eat and eat without putting on weight, whilst they hardly eat anything and yet continue to get fatter. Yet when they and I actually note down what they eat in a day and compare it against my intake the reason is clear - I was topping out at a max of around 2500 cals, they were going on to 4000. Just forgetting about that Mars bar they had and those packs of crisps, oh and that pork pie, and that McDonalds burger they called in for on the way home.

The very mentality that makes you argue the case of luck is the same that made you put on weight in the first place. This victim mentality that says it's not your fault, it's just bad luck, refusing to take responsibility for how you eat.

As I mentioned, my friend who is now just about 14 stone (196lbs) and mostly muscle, has not just eaten differently by depriving himself of what he wants - he has fundamentally changed the way he thinks about food and in doing so realised exactly what I've put above - it's not luck - he was just eating more than he should.

This is an argument that annoys me, as one of the 'lucky skinny people'. No, I do a hell of a lot of exercise and eat an appropriate amount. To call me lucky is to dismiss the healthy lifestyle I live.

Now where I have been lucky, is that in my upbringing my parents clearly gave me a natural sense of proper portion control as I have never wanted to over-eat, but that is all, not genetics or luck.

P.s.in before - medical problems etc.

Not to discount your experience but you are not every thin person so your experience doesn't mean it's the same for all thin people either.

My sister married a guy that comes from a thin family and her daughters inherited their attributes when it comes to metabolism, weight, etc. My nieces have always been extremely thin with small bone structures. They actually feel that they are too thin and have gone through periods of time when they have tried to gain weight. I remember one of them telling me that during her senior year in high school, she drank two milkshakes every day with lunch trying to put on a few pounds. Didn't work. She was also one of those who wore her pre-pregnancy jeans home from the hospital immediately after delivery and tried to gain more weight during her pregnancy because her OG/GYN was concerned about her lack of weight gain during pregnancy. I think she gained something like 18#, IIRC. So, while pregnant, she ate healthy meals but then, to try to gain weight, would also eat a lot of ice cream, cookies, chips, weight-gaining shakes, whatever and still couldn't gain. She also had to stop breastfeeding because she couldn't eat enough to keep herself from losing weight into a level that her physician considered dangerously low. I saw some of her meals during this time. She was eating huge amounts of food to the point where I got a stomach-ache just watching her eat. She also never works out. NEVER. She jokes that her only exercise is walking around in her stilettos at work.

Is she extreme? Sure, this isn't normal. But I've known a few others who are similar.

One of my always slender friends, who has never jogged a day in her life, gone to a gym, or done any kind of regular exercise recently dropped 10# by cutting out her evening snack and packing one sandwich in her lunch instead of two. It took her about 2 weeks to lose it. Not quite as extreme as my niece but she is certainly not in good fitness shape either.

Neither my niece or my friend eat a healthy diet, either.

ETA: Although this doesn't take anything away from those who have maintained a healthy weight, never having been overweight, because they have always just eaten healthy and maintained fitness through exercise. Yes, those people are to be commended.

I am not every thin person, but I have tried this little experiment with several people and it always comes out the same.

Knowing myself and a couple of others who are on the slim side of the scale and a similar amount of friends on the larger side of the scale. Comments have always been directed against the slim of us that we are lucky and we have higher metabolisms and we are always eating but never gaining weight. Yet then we have a conversation about what have we actually eaten this weekend. The slimmer ones might be some cereal, a small lunch and a big dinner and nothing else. Everyone saw us scoffing down on the big dinner and made the assumption we must have eaten loads that day. Not considering the fact that they had eaten the same dinner, then when quizzed about what else they had had, well, full english for breakfast, oh and i finished off last night's takeaway as well (oh wait so you had a takeaway last night did you?) then I had some lunch and then this nothing else. So we ask no snacks in between? Oh I had a mars bar and a bag of crisps after lunch...and a bag of sweets after dinner...

And we see the difference immediately. This is not a one off - it is regular. But they like to rationalise it out as bad luck.

Well actually - the larger someone is the higher their metabolism is so in fact they will have higher metabolisms than I do.

When people talk of thin families - everyone assumes genetics, but no one ever considers that it may actually be upbringing.

Also - regarding trying to gain weight and failing. Been there, done that. I've eaten the extra to try and put on weight. But what I didn't realise is I was just subconsciously dropping something else along the day. My natural hunger levels were keeping me on the same diet, so if I overate at lunch, I would accidentally under eat at dinner. Of course I wouldn't think about this and would just think, well I ate loads today and all this week, why am I not gaining?!

What I say is much in annoyance at people perpetuating the myth, which in turn is annoying for me because it allows people to write my efforts off as luck and genetics. But also because genuinely I believe trying to make excuses for why you gained weight such as bad luck/genetics, are hindering success in so many people.

Just accept responsibility for your body - if it's overweight it's because you've been eating too much. I was underweight because I ate too little. And I believed it was genetics - if you read my profile I say this - then I learned I was wrong. Genetics can affect how easily you put on muscle to a degree, and it can also affect how easily you gain fat to a degree. But we are talking degrees.

Those who are muscular are not 'lucky' They work god damn hard.

To re-iterate a point. The BMR calculations wouldn't work if 99% of the public had very similar metabolisms.

Sorry, still have to disagree. I have done too many things with my perpetually thin friends like week-long vacations, camping trips, etc., and seeing what they eat during those times to believe you're 100% right when it comes to all people. In some cases, sure, but not all. You can't discount the fact that some people really are outliers.

For example, last summer we spent a week camping with two other couples. Of these, one of the women has always been very thin and one of the men (not the same couple, if that matters). I was agog at how much the woman ate. Well, the man, too, but I was more interested in the woman. I physically couldn't eat that much if I wanted to as my stomach would hurt from it. Even the men were kidding her. Add to that, she doesn't regularly exercise so when we went on hikes, she couldn't keep up with us (yes, even with chubby me). Quite often, when we were doing more active things, she opted out to sit and read.

I've known her for years and seen her eat more than me on occasions but this is the first time I had spent such a long period of time with her so I had quite a few discussion with her about her diet/exercise and it was fascinating to me. Seeing what she ate that week and her telling me what she typically eats, blew me away.

My husband is a huge eater as well. As are his brothers, yet he is the only one that doesn't have a serious weight issue. Sure, he could drop a few pounds but eats an amount that also amazes the rest of us. It can be heard to live with sometimes, LOL.

Now, I truly believe there are many of us who have damaged our metabolisms without realizing it. When I started my weight loss/fitness journey, it was all about losing weight. Now, while I still have a goal to get off probably about 30 more pounds (kinda unsure, I know when I get there), my focus has shifted to fixing what is obviously a damaged metabolism.

Here's why I believe this:
* My mom was perpetually fearful that I would become heavy like she was and severely restricted my food intake as a child and a teen. I believe my metabolism was damaged by this form a fairly young age.

* When I was in high school I played sports each season, rode my bike for miles all the time (a 30-mile bike ride on a weekend or summer's day was nothing, just regular fun), and on a typical day during the school year I wouldn't eat breakfast, would eat a hot dog from the school's snack bar for lunch with a diet cola, and, on evenings I worked after sports practice, would eat one piece of chicken gratis (worked at KFC)

* In college, I ran for at least an hour every morning, played racquetball during the week, skied or biked on weekends (depending on the season) and I ate so little that my roommates expressed concern about my eating when they came to visit. My mom wasn't concerned because, obviously, being thin was more important and I had never eaten much anyway so this wasn't unusual. Most days, I had a bagel/cream cheese snack around lunch time and then would walk about 3 miles to my part-time job, stopping at a little deli along the way and have a small sandwich, nothing big or fancy, usually tuna fish or egg salad, and that would be it for the day. Sure, I drank and partied on the weekends, typical college kid, but I always preferred scotch on the rocks because it didn't have the calories of beer or mixed drinks.

* Over the years, I gained weight but still really don't believe I ate huge quantities of food to do so. In fact, when I went on Weight Watchers, I kept gaining and was told I must be lying about how much I was eating. I now believe their food plan included more carbs than my body can process but that's for another discussion. That's just one example of diets that didn't work for me. I was actually eating more food on Weight Watchers than I usually ate. Probably more healthy choices, for the most part, but a larger quantity of food.

* During the course of my entire life, I have never been able to eat a lot of food at a time. A binge for me is still a fairly small amount of food. I don't believe I've ever been to a buffet, holiday dinner, or other festivity with a bunch of food and been gob-smacked by the amounts of food that some people eat. I just physically can't put that much food in me without being super uncomfortable, with a stomach that hurts from the quantity. I'm just not able to eat a lot at any one time. Never could.

I finally figured out that due to metabolic issues with carbs (I'm a diet/exercise-controlled diabetic), I need to watch my carb intake. That is what has made a huge difference for me concerning my weight. And, well, there's more....

When I started here at MFP, I did the usual eating 1200 calories/day without eating exercise calories. I truly wasn't difficult for me. I was never hungry. The only real difference between pre-MFP and MFP eating was focusing more on micro- and macro-nutrients, eating numerous very small meals, and upping my exercise program including adding heavy weight training and HIIT. I think these are key to repairing a damaged metabolism. (OK, not all people need to do the numerous small meals a day but this works better for me so I'm sticking to it.)

Then I kept reading here about people eating so much more and still losing and became intrigued and decided to see if I could make it work for me. I also noticed these same people seem to have either no weight gain or just a minor weight gain from splurges. I always had a huge weight gain from splurges and wanted to put a stop to this. I now realize that it has to do with my metabolism burning to slow and fixing this is a top priority. I want, for the first time in my life, to be able to eat relatively freely and not gain weight. By relatively freely, I don't mean regular pig-outs and living on junk food, just the ability to have some flexibility without having to be overly restrictive. This would be wonderful.

So, based on what I've learned, I'm upping my calories. First, I started eating back exercise calories with a 1200 net. Gained a pound but nothing major. After about a month, I added 100 calories/day bringing me up to 1300 net. Gained a couple of pounds, leveled off, lost it, started losing again. So, about a month later, upped it to 1400 net. Same thing. Gained a few, lost them, and seem to be back to losing again.

But this is also where my problems start, in a way. Although this is a good problem to have, LOL. I'm having a very difficult time eating this much. I have never eaten the quantities of food I'm having to eat right now. My stomach hurts a lot from it. To get my 1400 net (and sometimes I have pretty darn big calorie burns so this might mean 1800-2000 calories eaten that day), I have to eat some junk food. I just can't do it eating healthy, nutritious-dense but lower calorie foods. I can't eat enough protein to meet my requirements without feeling sick to my stomach from too much bulk so I'm supplementing with whey protein drinks (or added to my yogurt). I'm having to time my eating carefully so I'm not too full to exercise because I can't exercise on a full stomach.

In fact, as I sit here realizing that i need to eat another 700 calories today (and this is after planning for two glasses of wine tonight), I'm trying to figure out how I can achieve it and what I should eat to do it that won't leave me with an aching tummy from too much bulk. So far today, I've eaten 1 T. peanut butter, 100 grams (weighed) of a cinnamon roll with 1 t. butter melted on top, 28 oz. of water with both whey protein and a powdered multi-vitamin added as I have a hard time swallowing pills giving me about 150 calories, eaten an Omega 3 chew worth 20 calories, fiber-enriched gummie candies worth 10 calories, and 3 eggs scrambled in 1 t. of butter. This totals about 1000 calories. I'm totally stuffed.

I'm actually sitting here looking at a small chocolate brownie as I type trying to force myself to eat it to get more calories in or I'm going to be seriously under my calorie target for the day.

If I was, indeed, eating way too much food over the course of my life in order to gain weight, then none of this should be a problem. Back in my gaining weight days, it was not at all unusual for me to skip breakfast, skip lunch, and then eat a hamburger for dinner. That's it. If I ate french fries, it was just a few that my husband shared with me from his serving. If I had any milkshake, it was usually a small glass poured, again, from my husband's shake. And I would be stuffed for the night. Seldom have I done late-night snacking.

You might wonder why I even feel the need to eat more food then or ask why I'm torturing myself to eat more. I truly believe that some of the health issues I have had are the result of years of eating the wrong foods and not enough foods to properly nourish my body. Repairing my metabolism so I can eat more is part of that. I have fitness goals that require me to properly nourish my body so, thus, I need to eat more food.

Again, I need to emphasize that my increased exercise, including lifting heavy and HIIT-training, and reduction of carbs are the big changes in my life as I was just a walker before. And I really attribute my weight loss more to my increased exercise than I do to eating reduced calories because, really, I haven't reduced my calories at all, just making healthier choices and eating less processed foods and lowered carbs. When, out of curiousity, I play around plugging what I typically ate in a day during my gaining and staying fat years, it's not any more than I'm eating now and, in fact, often less (calorie-wise anyway).

I really don't believe I'm alone in having a damaged metabolism. And, that is why, some people who have always been thin probably are eating more than people who are overweight. Those who have been perpetually thin probably never damaged their metabolisms in the first place while those of us who have been very overweight may have damaged our metabolisms at some point in our life and can gain on lesser amounts of food.

Does this apply to everybody? No. Some overweight or obese people do eat tons of food to gain the weight. I have also seen some of these people and what they eat at a time stuns me. And some thin people do eat less food. I've definitely observed some thin people who pick at food like birds. Look at any bell curve. You always have the average hump in the middle that includes most people but you always have those outliers as well. That is why you can't make assumptions.

Sorry I couldn't be more concise. Didn't start out meaning to write so much.