Are Fit women the most hated group in America?
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I dont find the girl that I call fit to be as attractive as other body types. I'm more of a Kim Kardashian, (body type only) Beonyce type of guy. And no one ever puts down the chiseled guy!! Thats my entire point.I have not read every response so may very well be repeating what has already been posted.
To the OP...you seem to have unilaterally taken a body type you find appealing and declared it "fit" and then judged negatively every lady that does not measure up to that as being unhealthy.
Has anyone said that any guy who is not chiseled with sharply defined abs is not fit or healthy?
I doubt it very much so perhaps you should accept that healthy in women also can be different sizes,shapes and level of toning.
The same women that think the heavier women are more attractive and bash the thinner women, pick Tim Tebow, Usher, Markie Mark, David Beckem, Hugh Jackman etc. as their perfect mates etc. when asked. You never even see a thread etc. were people are asked to pick between a heavy Elvis etc. and Usher etc, and then bash Usher. Because its perfectly acceptable to be a thin or cut guy in America even by the people who bash thin or fit women.0 -
I've been thinking about this topic and wanted to come back to it.
Someone posted an ironic statement about thin, white, young, attractive, straight people are the most discriminated people.
That is what gives me a bad vibe about this thread. I really do understand what the "point" of the OP was and overall I agree. We should not be judging others and putting them down. I think we learned that in elementary school...and yet it still exists. I'm not sure how to eradicate it, but I think calling people on it, like the OP did, is a start.
However, the hyperbole of "most hated group" really bothered me. You hear more "thin bashing" because the thin are not oppressed. The thin can move freely without being discriminated against. Personal anecdotes aside, a thin person may have to deal with some jealous ol biddies or being ogled by the opposite sex, but out and out discrimination and non access based on normal or thin weight just doesn't (or extremely rarely) happens. If they are denied access it is due to other oppressed statuses (gender, race, sexual orientation, etc...)
ETA::: Fat people are talked about. They are talked about all the time, but you don't hear it directly from regular "nice" people in polite society because the obese are actively discriminated against. "Nice" people don't tell racist or homophobic jokes, but they turn around and talk in subtle innuendos "Oh, I'm not racist but...." They quietly discriminate in their hiring practices. They make laws or rules that ensure certain people do not have access...but they don't talk about it. They tell blond jokes, and make snide comments about someone being too thin or poke fun at "fat cats" on Wall Street or in politics.. .because those topics are safe and acceptable because they are not "oppressed" people.
Please don't think I am condoning that saying mean things about thin people is OK. It isn't, but I certainly don't think there is serious "hate" for skinny women.0 -
Actually, that's a gross exaggeration. Something like 30% of adults are obese, so they (actually 'we' until a couple days ago) are not a majority.There are I think way more obese people in the United States than fit people, so it is the norm being fit seems to be out of the norm...
As for the topic, I don't think it's right to bash anyone for their appearance. However, I do understand why there is blow back against the current ultra-thin ideal that has been foisted upon us the last decade or so. It's not like a perfectly fit body is being trumpeted by Hollywood and the fashion industry as ideal. Instead, the ideal they have been selling is thinner than what most medical professionals consider healthy. This has led to more and more eating disorders and body dysmorphia as women, especially teenagers, attempt to reach not only an unrealistic ideal but an unhealthy one. Knowing this, people are pushing back a bit against this size 0 trend. I don't join them, but I understand the reasoning behind it.0 -
Simple answer: Fat bashing is not okay. Skinny bashing is.
I must be living in a completely alternate reality. I don't know, maybe America is different but fat bashing is the most (or only) acceptable form of discrimination here. I see people fat bashing on the internet every day. Not to mention all the negative stereotypes associated with being overweight - laziness, gluttony, greed, lack of willpower. What stereotypes are associated with people of a healthy BMI? That they eat healthy, workout, they take care of themselves, etc. etc. Doesn't matter whether that's actually true or not, this is still the assumption of most people.0 -
Why cant we just except our differences? Why does everything have to be based on looks n weight. I know beautiful people, thick n thin. But I see the comments n nothing will change unless we start by accepting ourselves first, then we can accept others. Stop judging. Bashing is bashing regardless.0
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You can not like something and not be an a**hole about it.
Agreed 100%!!!!!
I agree with this too. The bashing either way is lame.0 -
personally, in a beauty contest or whatever, I'm always gonna vote for the big gal. Why? Because it takes way more confidence to go against the grain and put yourself out there as sexy and confident when you don't meet society's standards.
In addition, I think our cutlure is seriously "fat-phobic"...and you know I'm not against fitness and health. I'm totally for it. But I mean our culture is fat phobic like any body fat is bad. Yes. I've had an ED and yes those incessent images of perfect hardbodies is what pushed me there and to this day, even after all my hard work through MFP and weight lifting, etc, I'm NEVER going to look like the girls in the magazines because they aren't real. Its' just a fact.
So I'm all for us collectively giving up being such *kitten* about women having some body fat. I will never think it's ok to call a woman with 20-25% body fat a "FAT person" and ridicule her for being there. I honestly don't think 25% bf on a female is unhealthy. It's not UBER ATHLETE status (which is what I want for myself 17-18% BF) but it's not sickly. And to make it out like it's some horrible fracking thing to be 25% bf is exactly what leads to a cutlure of eating disorders and lack of self condience for our baby girls in this day and age.
So if your point is that we shoudl be prohealth- be pro health...not Mr. Negacore about a perfectly beautiful woman with a little bit more BF. That negativity just sucks. And it sucks to be negative about women who bust their butts to be uber athlete status too.
So while I may have appreciation for the work that goes into building muscle, I'm still signigifacntly more allured and respectful of the women who gives the finger to this society by putting her "larger" body on display and takes pride in it's beauty. It's a benefit to all women who are incessantly being told that we need to look like Angelina Jolie, or whoever the flavor of the month is, to be a valuable human being!0 -
IN addition, I will say this- the woman who is unhealthily overweight doesn't need your negacore crap either. She could be a mom, who busts her *kitten* working 80 hours a week to put five kids through college while her husband sits on his lazy bum doing nothing.
IMHO, this mama is THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMAN EVER.
And any man who disagrees can go suck it!0 -
I understand completely!!
In addition, I think our cutlure is seriously "fat-phobic"...and you know I'm not against fitness and health. I'm totally for it. But I mean our culture is fat phobic like any body fat is bad. Yes. I've had an ED and yes those incessent images of perfect hardbodies is what pushed me there and to this day, even after all my hard work through MFP and weight lifting, etc, I'm NEVER going to look like the girls in the magazines because they aren't real. Its' just a fact.
I dont consider a women that is 20-25% BF. as fat!! I consider a women that is 20-30% BF. to be hot as (rymes with duck)So I'm all for us collectively giving up being such *kitten* about women having some body fat. I will never think it's ok to call a woman with 20-25% body fat a "FAT person" and ridicule her for being there. I honestly don't think 25% bf on a female is unhealthy. It's not UBER ATHLETE status (which is what I want for myself 17-18% BF) but it's not sickly. And to make it out like it's some horrible fracking thing to be 25% bf is exactly what leads to a cutlure of eating disorders and lack of self condience for our baby girls in this day and age.
Not my point at all! In my mind I am a fat person! I might have a skinny body now but I still consider myself fat. ( hard to put into words) So When I see negative comments made towards fat or skinny people, regarless of if their a man or a women I get offended. It just seems to me that everyone gets a free pass from society to say mean, rude and hurtfull things about thin women. For example in the make believe "" Do You Want To Be A Whale Or A Mermaid"" story I mentioned, the ficticious women stated that one of the reasons she would rather be a whale is because whales mate with one other whale for life and mermaids sleep with every sailor they come across. WTF! What does how many partners a person chooses have, have to do with how much they weigh??So if your point is that we shoudl be prohealth- be pro health...not Mr. Negacore about a perfectly beautiful woman with a little bit more BF. That negativity just sucks. And it sucks to be negative about women who bust their butts to be uber athlete status too.0 -
Actually, that's a gross exaggeration. Something like 30% of adults are obese, so they (actually 'we' until a couple days ago) are not a majority.There are I think way more obese people in the United States than fit people, so it is the norm being fit seems to be out of the norm...
Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are obese: 33.9% (2007-2008)
Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are overweight (and not obese): 34.4% (2007-2008)
(http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/overwt.htm)
My math says 68.3% of Americans are overweight (as of 2008, and you know it gets worse every year). That would be the majority, so I think it is fair to say that "overweight" is more normal than "fit", and therefor may be the cause for the perceived "skinny bashing".
It doesn't make it right, mind you, but just a theory.0 -
I'd rather look like either of those than me
You're beautiful, so just stop it!
I was just going to say that.
Thirded.0 -
According to a lot of threads on this site alone my body is disgusting. I don't know why people say it and I don't care, they are ****ing stupid. I choose mermaid over whale any day.
Damn. Who says your body is disgusting?? You just look like you're really in shape. There's a difference between having abs (what I see in your picture) and seeing ribs (which I don't see in your pic). I think all kinds of people can be beautiful, whether they are mermaids or whales. People just need to quit with all the judgement (I know i'm dreaming, but thought I'd say it anyway lol).
Keep up whatever you're doing, you look great
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Actually, that's a gross exaggeration. Something like 30% of adults are obese, so they (actually 'we' until a couple days ago) are not a majority.There are I think way more obese people in the United States than fit people, so it is the norm being fit seems to be out of the norm...
Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are obese: 33.9% (2007-2008)
Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are overweight (and not obese): 34.4% (2007-2008)
(http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/overwt.htm)
My math says 68.3% of Americans are overweight (as of 2008, and you know it gets worse every year). That would be the majority, so I think it is fair to say that "overweight" is more normal than "fit", and therefor may be the cause for the perceived "skinny bashing".
It doesn't make it right, mind you, but just a theory.
Thank you! I was looking up all the stats...you got there first! But in my post I did say I was just basing it on my own experiences of American's while vacationing and may be a stereotype.
edited to say: I should have also indicated overweight/obese as that is what I meant not just obese.0 -
this topic reminds me of some lyrics in that ani difranco song, "32 flavors." I always thought this part was really interesting, bc it was the first time I heard something like this in a song, or even in general, bc i had never really thought about it -
"and god help you if you are an ugly girl
course too pretty is also your doom
cause everyone harbors a secret hatred
for the prettiest girl in the room"
so true!! lol0 -
To me the women on the right looks underweight. I can't see any muscle tone or anything, which to me makes it look a little worse. I would say she looks unhealthy, but in saying that, I wouldn't beat her down or say she looks like sh** because of that, to me, she is too thin. In saying that, I don't think that makes her unattractive or disgusting.
I think Marilyn has a great figure, and that photo is pretty unflattering, she was actually very tiny with an hour glass figure. She didn't necessarily look 'fit' though, due to lack of muscle tone. Either way, I do think most of the women that commented on that on facebook were probably jealous, because there is a difference in saying 'she looks a little too skinny for my liking' and 'ew that's disgusting she is so skinny, not a real women' etc, as these sorts like to do.0 -
Definitely. In my job, women come in, see me and immediately turn b itchy. I have to ask for sizing, I'm a uniform vendor! There's no winning with women, they immediately hate me and make stupid comments about my weight. This is who I am, I'm small and always have been. Not because I restrict, but because of genetics. Basically, God forbid I post anything about me trying to gain weight, or to be proud of how I look, cuz people get butt hurt, as we say in the ghetto.Just sit at a restaurant, YMCA, or public event and watch how women eyeball each other. I swear, women ogle each other more than men ogle them, and not necessarily in a 'attraction' way either. Once I noticed it happening, I would always catch women staring down my (ex)wife. Some of the glances were pretty nasty too.
I can't say I've seen the same behavior in men. :ohwell:0 -
Actually, that's a gross exaggeration. Something like 30% of adults are obese, so they (actually 'we' until a couple days ago) are not a majority.There are I think way more obese people in the United States than fit people, so it is the norm being fit seems to be out of the norm...
Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are obese: 33.9% (2007-2008)
Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are overweight (and not obese): 34.4% (2007-2008)
(http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/overwt.htm)
My math says 68.3% of Americans are overweight (as of 2008, and you know it gets worse every year). That would be the majority, so I think it is fair to say that "overweight" is more normal than "fit", and therefor may be the cause for the perceived "skinny bashing".
It doesn't make it right, mind you, but just a theory.
Thank you! I was looking up all the stats...you got there first! But in my post I did say I was just basing it on my own experiences of American's while vacationing and may be a stereotype.
edited to say: I should have also indicated overweight/obese as that is what I meant not just obese.
No problem. I figured that's what you probably meant in your original post.
It's obviously something that happens in society (skinny bashing), and things don't just happen without a reason. Perhaps this is the reason.... or maybe I'm just crazy like the label on my pill bottle says!
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Nope... they're the most liked by me.0
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGKPlUiDxGA this is all i have to say on the topic :laugh: 0 -
I am so curious about this picture, but it was removed! lol0
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Im a little late into this, the pic is gone but I know exactly what your talking about I see it on my FB ALL THE TIME!!
AS an over weight woman I will say a lot of it is jealousy because it seems to hard to be what is attractive to normal society so to make themselves feel a bit better they look for reassurance in disrespecting something they are not and the people just like this "jealous " person follow suit....Another big thing with it is that, it does seem so far away from what they are and they figure theyll never be there so build themselves up with false confidence when 7x out of 10 they would rather be in the same realm as "the girl on the right" ....AND THEN,,,,,there are women out there who are truley happy with being heavier! Its not often when you find a woman who is heavier to be 100% happy with themselves but these women are out there!!! As a heavier chick myself I USED TO HATE ON THE SKINNY CHICKS EVERYTIME!!! Purely because I was ashamed of myself and that dream seemed so far away and not achievable! NOW, I respect anyone (women and men alike) who go through the trials to be fit and stay fit, the people who treat their bodies as temples and respect themselves. the only time I hate on anyone now is if they are rude to me or talk **** about me or give me mean looks! in other words UNLESS im provoked I do not judge by size or beauty I judge by personality because no matter how big or small you are, you personality will determine if your actually attractive
I know ILL probably get a lot of hate for this but get over it and stop being in denial all the time, being honest with yourself isnt the end of the world. If your heavier and HAPPY inside and OUT NO COMPLAINTS I APPLAUD YOU!!! If your FIT and WORKING IT NO COMPALINTS I APPLAUD YOU!! DONT HATE! APPRECIATE!!0 -
Actually, that's a gross exaggeration. Something like 30% of adults are obese, so they (actually 'we' until a couple days ago) are not a majority.There are I think way more obese people in the United States than fit people, so it is the norm being fit seems to be out of the norm...
Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are obese: 33.9% (2007-2008)
Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are overweight (and not obese): 34.4% (2007-2008)
(http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/overwt.htm)
My math says 68.3% of Americans are overweight (as of 2008, and you know it gets worse every year). That would be the majority, so I think it is fair to say that "overweight" is more normal than "fit", and therefor may be the cause for the perceived "skinny bashing".
It doesn't make it right, mind you, but just a theory.
Being overweight doesn't mean you aren't fit. Four years ago I lost 50 pounds to get down to the top of the "normal" BMI range which is something like 175 for a 5'11" person. I was too thin almost gaunt. Had I stopped ten or even fifteen pounds sooner, I would have technically been overweight but wouldn't have looked it and I was very fit.
Personally, I think BMI is way too general. That's why this time my plan this time is to not go as skinny as before.0 -
You can sum it up like this:
Morbid Obesity: Dangerous to your health both short-term and long-term and shouldn't be encouraged
Anorexic/Underweight/Malnourished: Dangerous to your health both short-term and long-term and shouldn't be encouraged
Only one of these body types enjoys glamorizing by the media, Hollywood and the fashion industry. There is nobody out there that looks to obese women with envy and tries to emulate them. However, the opposite is true. That's why there is a backlash against the images of current Hollywood celebs and others showing off their often unhealthily underweight bodies. An overweight but not morbidly obese woman is often going to be more healthy then her malnourished counterpart. Yet, the size 0 wunderkind is the one that is put up as the female ideal. This is a disturbing part of our culture.
It kind of reminds me of the old Kelly LeBrock commercial quote, "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful!" Ironically, Kelly LeBrock found herself on Celebrity Fat Camp a few years ago.0 -
Personally, I think BMI is way too general. That's why this time my plan this time is to not go as skinny as before.
I totally agree with you here. I've got a 32" waist, and can see definition in muscles throughout my body, but I think I still fall under "overweight" according to BMI.0 -
You can sum it up like this:
Morbid Obesity: Dangerous to your health both short-term and long-term and shouldn't be encouraged
Anorexic/Underweight/Malnourished: Dangerous to your health both short-term and long-term and shouldn't be encouraged
Only one of these body types enjoys glamorizing by the media, Hollywood and the fashion industry. There is nobody out there that looks to obese women with envy and tries to emulate them. However, the opposite is true. That's why there is a backlash against the images of current Hollywood celebs and others showing off their often unhealthily underweight bodies. An overweight but not morbidly obese woman is often going to be more healthy then her malnourished counterpart. Yet, the size 0 wunderkind is the one that is put up as the female ideal. This is a disturbing part of our culture.
It kind of reminds me of the old Kelly LeBrock commercial quote, "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful!" Ironically, Kelly LeBrock found herself on Celebrity Fat Camp a few years ago.
Not all size 0s are anorexic/malnourished/underweight, but if you mention that you are a size zero or, god forbid, double-zero, you are immediaely lumped in with those that are unhealthily underweight. I am in good health, fit and a size zero or double zero. I am 5'1" tall and 107 pounds, so it's not unexpected. But as soon as people hear size zero, the comments begin, and they are NOT pleasant to hear!
The worst thing is, I am now the size I was in my 20s - when I was a perfect size 8. It's not my fault they keep moving the sizes to accommodate the egos of women who don't want to admit they are no longer as trim as they were when they were younger. If they put the sizes back to where they were when I was younger, would that make me less anorexic/malnourished/ underweight?
Misperceptions and assumptions are king - reality appears to account for very little.0 -
Simply put:
Humans are selfish, jealous, irrational, and emotional beings whose behavior is usually driven by a desperate, fundamental need to belong to the in-group, preferably in a superior position but really, any will do in a pinch.
The OP's perspective, that of the opposition, and those of everyone else on this site can generally be categorized thusly.
None of this is a surprise.0 -
From my experience, the friends of mine that have posted pictures like that on FB are overweight, and I don't think that they are doing to it "skinny bash" as to make themselves feel better about their own situation. Looking at the fit woman in the photo seems like something that is completely unrealistic and un-obtainable when you are overweight. So, hearing that Marilyn Monroe was a size 14 means that maybe, just maybe, they are hot and desired as well. Make sense?
Nobody should ever bash anyone on their appearance. I have had friends who are morbidly obese who struggle daily with their weight issues, and I have had friends who are severely underweight who struggle with their weight issues. In particular, I had a friend in college who was a size 00 who could NOT gain weight. Ever. And she was picked on just as much as the girl in our class that was morbidly obese. It really is a no win situation. It is unfortunate that in our society today, that we haven't moved past these issues (size, race, sexual orientation, gender, religion - whatever). Very sad that when certain people feel crappy about themselves that they have to lash out at someone who doesn't deserve it. "Can't we all just get along?"0 -
Andi, thats exactly what your friends are doing! Putting down skinny girls to make themselves feel better about their own situation! That is skinnybashing. And a person has to be pretty pathetic to make others feel bad about themselves in order for them to""" feel better about their own situation."""0
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Back in Jan. while at the doctors a nurse came into the exam room while I was waiting for my Dr. and went over my BMI with me. She told me that at 6"1 and 217-218 lbs ( 3-4 lb.'s more than I weighed in my profile pic.) I was obese!! She then started making suggestions about how I could lower my BMI. and had me sign and date a form. I got pissed because I had just spent the entire past year busting my *kitten* in order to not be considered obese so I took off my shirt (was going to have to anyway) and asked her to please point out on my body were she thought I could lose enough fat so I wouldnt be considered obese. BMI Is a Joke!!
Personally, I think BMI is way too general. That's why this time my plan this time is to not go as skinny as before.
I totally agree with you here. I've got a 32" waist, and can see definition in muscles throughout my body, but I think I still fall under "overweight" according to BMI.0 -
Andi, thats exactly what your friends are doing! Putting down skinny girls to make themselves feel better about their own situation! That is skinnybashing. And a person has to be pretty pathetic to make others feel bad about themselves in order for them to""" feel better about their own situation."""
Agree...I just don't think they are doing it consciously. It's more of a "this is a random skinny girl I don't know" type thing vs saying it about a "real" woman they know. I am not excusing it...just can be empathetic. Agree that nothing like this is OK. I hate the "I'm notfat, I'm fluffy" kind of things, too. No...you're fat. So am I...that's why I'm here!0
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