"Spike Day" Nonsense

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  • UponThisRock
    UponThisRock Posts: 4,522 Member
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    Wether leptin is the key factor or not, the fact remains spiking has helped alot of people. There are many benefits both physical and mental that are in play. If done correctly you still maintain a calorie deficit, and imo it keeps your body thinking and not getting used to your diet. It makes sense that if you eat a large meal once a week or a large set of meals once per week your body will reset everyweek. Kinda like people say to take a couple weeks off every 3months to reset your body and metabolism. The spike day does this just more often on a smaller order. I beleive that is why alot of people that plateau have good results with spiking, it gets their body back to wandering if it's in a deficit or not. This is just my opinion, take it or leave it

    You could call it placebo if you want, but I feel the effects of leptin day to day. I feel my cravings increase just before Spike Day and then disappear for several days after Spike Day. For the record I felt this when I first started 8+ years ago well before I had any idea of what leptin was and many other Spikers report the same results.

    It works, the difference between Spikers and other dieters is that we love it! We actually enjoy losing weight this way and we are not miserable and hungry like many others who try to lose weight in other ways.

    Leptin operates primarily through the hypothalamus, causing various nuerochemical chaanges which has downstream effects on appetite, metabolic rate, as well several hormones including testosterone, thyroid and cortisol. Given all the things that leptin is involved in, I highly doubt tht you can feel leptin specifically.

    Also, I already discussed the science on leptin changing rapidly. But if you believe you can feel it, nothing is going to convince you that you can't.
  • lind3400
    lind3400 Posts: 557 Member
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  • Squidgeypaws007
    Squidgeypaws007 Posts: 1,012 Member
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    The concept of the benefits of a “Spike Day” centers around the notion that leptin is a key hormone in bodyweight regulation, and that leptin decreases in response to dieting, which causes our weight loss to slow down. Thus, by having a day of overfeeding, the thinking goes, we can bring leptin back up to baseline, thereby “side stepping” the decrease in leptin that hinders our fat loss efforts.

    The problem with this logic is that it misses a key part of the puzzle. First, a little background.
    Without getting too technical here, Leptin is the hormone that is in charge of bodyweight regulation. When calories go up, stored bodyfat goes up, Leptin goes up. The result is you feel less hungry, metabolism goes up, etc. Essentially leptin tells the body that it is “well fed.” (So why do people get obese? Chronically elevated leptin = leptin resistance = leptin can’t do it’s job. Sucks, huh?) When calories go down, leptin drops, and you feel more hungry, and you want to eat more, metabolic slow down, etc. Basically, what’s going on here is that your body “fights against” weight loss, and one of the tools that’s used is leptin. (we all wish it fought just as hard against weight gain).

    ^^^Again, keep in mind, this is terribly oversimplified for the purposes of background info^^^

    So then, along comes the Spike Day. By overfeeding once per week, they claim, you raise leptin, so you’re not dealing with the metabolic slowdown and other things that come along with a drop in leptin. Not so fast.

    As I mentioned earlier, this is missing a key part of the puzzle. *Drum roll* Leptin basically rises and falls as soon as calories go up and down. The research has shown that it only takes about 24 hours for leptin to response to a calorie deficit or surplus:

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/8/2685.short
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8866554

    What I’m saying here is that the Spike Diet has it only half right. Leptin does increase and decrease in response to calorie intake, but it responds rapidly. So raising it for 24 hours won’t do squat. As soon as your reefed is over, it goes right back down to where it was.

    I do believe that a “cheat day” has other benefits, however, for most folks, the benefits are purely psychological. I’m not diminishing the importance of psychological tolerance of a diet, I’m simply saying that physiological arguments for the Spike Day don’t hold water; if you want to do a Spike Day because you enjoy it and it “works for you,” by all means, have at it.

    One final note on Leptin. What I wrote above may beg the question “so how does anybody lose weight?” Or, you might say “see, I told you starvation mode was real!” When I talk about your body fighting against weight loss, you body can only fight so hard. You can always overcome it by eating a little less/moving a little more when weight loss slows.

    Finally, like a Baptist Preacher, I’m going to conclude for a third time. There is something to the notion of taking break from your diet to regulate metabolism, etc. This is best accomplished by a week (or two) long “diet break” where calories are raised to maintenance level.

    Great post, very well laid out and easy to understand, thanks :)

    By overfeeding, what do you mean? Being at maintainence levels of calories from the -500 deficit level? Or over maintainence levels? Just wondering as at the moment I'm considering cycling my calories and I'm interested to learn as much as poss :)
  • Pronoiac
    Pronoiac Posts: 304
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  • cmccorma
    cmccorma Posts: 203 Member
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  • UponThisRock
    UponThisRock Posts: 4,522 Member
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    The concept of the benefits of a “Spike Day” centers around the notion that leptin is a key hormone in bodyweight regulation, and that leptin decreases in response to dieting, which causes our weight loss to slow down. Thus, by having a day of overfeeding, the thinking goes, we can bring leptin back up to baseline, thereby “side stepping” the decrease in leptin that hinders our fat loss efforts.

    The problem with this logic is that it misses a key part of the puzzle. First, a little background.
    Without getting too technical here, Leptin is the hormone that is in charge of bodyweight regulation. When calories go up, stored bodyfat goes up, Leptin goes up. The result is you feel less hungry, metabolism goes up, etc. Essentially leptin tells the body that it is “well fed.” (So why do people get obese? Chronically elevated leptin = leptin resistance = leptin can’t do it’s job. Sucks, huh?) When calories go down, leptin drops, and you feel more hungry, and you want to eat more, metabolic slow down, etc. Basically, what’s going on here is that your body “fights against” weight loss, and one of the tools that’s used is leptin. (we all wish it fought just as hard against weight gain).

    ^^^Again, keep in mind, this is terribly oversimplified for the purposes of background info^^^

    So then, along comes the Spike Day. By overfeeding once per week, they claim, you raise leptin, so you’re not dealing with the metabolic slowdown and other things that come along with a drop in leptin. Not so fast.

    As I mentioned earlier, this is missing a key part of the puzzle. *Drum roll* Leptin basically rises and falls as soon as calories go up and down. The research has shown that it only takes about 24 hours for leptin to response to a calorie deficit or surplus:

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/8/2685.short
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8866554

    What I’m saying here is that the Spike Diet has it only half right. Leptin does increase and decrease in response to calorie intake, but it responds rapidly. So raising it for 24 hours won’t do squat. As soon as your reefed is over, it goes right back down to where it was.

    I do believe that a “cheat day” has other benefits, however, for most folks, the benefits are purely psychological. I’m not diminishing the importance of psychological tolerance of a diet, I’m simply saying that physiological arguments for the Spike Day don’t hold water; if you want to do a Spike Day because you enjoy it and it “works for you,” by all means, have at it.

    One final note on Leptin. What I wrote above may beg the question “so how does anybody lose weight?” Or, you might say “see, I told you starvation mode was real!” When I talk about your body fighting against weight loss, you body can only fight so hard. You can always overcome it by eating a little less/moving a little more when weight loss slows.

    Finally, like a Baptist Preacher, I’m going to conclude for a third time. There is something to the notion of taking break from your diet to regulate metabolism, etc. This is best accomplished by a week (or two) long “diet break” where calories are raised to maintenance level.

    Great post, very well laid out and easy to understand, thanks :)

    By overfeeding, what do you mean? Being at maintainence levels of calories from the -500 deficit level? Or over maintainence levels? Just wondering as at the moment I'm considering cycling my calories and I'm interested to learn as much as poss :)

    I believe that the spike day theory would call for eating over maintenence for 1 day per week.

    I don't think refeeds are useful for the average joe, I'm a fan of taking a break every 6-8 weeks and eating at maintenence.
  • Squidgeypaws007
    Squidgeypaws007 Posts: 1,012 Member
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    I believe that the spike day theory would call for eating over maintenence for 1 day per week.

    I don't think refeeds are useful for the average joe, I'm a fan of taking a break every 6-8 weeks and eating at maintenence.

    Ah right, so eating at maintainence level for say 2 of every 7 days - would that have a similar effect to spike eating?
    i.e. 2 day low, 1 day maintaince - rinse repeat. Or are you saying that this kind of cycling should have a longer duration? i.e. 1 week maintainence, 2 days low, one week -500 deficit?
  • Ambrogio1
    Ambrogio1 Posts: 518 Member
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    hmmmm, i never was a big fan of the leptin theory. I always knew there was bs in it. For one, it didn't respond in humans how it was expected to initially.

    I feel that all hormones leptin/gerlin/GH/insulin/T3 etc... can't be pin pointed to causes of weight gain or weight loss. They all work together in a delicate balance.

    I wouldn't say a cheat/free/refeed day don't work, i'd say the association to a refeed and leptin are inaccurate. There are other hormones that come in to play besides leptin on the these days.To say "LEPTIN" is the key, is just as ridiculous as saying GH or Insulin is the key to fat loss.

    Even if there is no direct effect of a cheat day and weight loss. There is a direct effect psychologically, which I believe is most important. Psychology is everything, the determinant of success or failure on any plan you choose.

    GAME
    SET
    MATCH!

    Whats he win bob???????????????????????????????????????

    Spike Days ARE AWESOME!!! They work! They are fun!!!! They also allow me to push massive weights on the following.
    Refeed also work and are awesome.
    Scientist theories suck.. I hate all the jargon about this that and the other thing. Then you get one guy to debunk something and the bail out is "everyones bodies are different" or some othe rlame excuse AKA the bailout THEORY
    Science is nice when it works out, when it doesn't excuses are made.

    500 ppl on this board spike and it works. Its not tough to figure it out

    This thread sux
  • UponThisRock
    UponThisRock Posts: 4,522 Member
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    I believe that the spike day theory would call for eating over maintenence for 1 day per week.

    I don't think refeeds are useful for the average joe, I'm a fan of taking a break every 6-8 weeks and eating at maintenence.

    Ah right, so eating at maintainence level for say 2 of every 7 days - would that have a similar effect to spike eating?
    i.e. 2 day low, 1 day maintaince - rinse repeat. Or are you saying that this kind of cycling should have a longer duration? i.e. 1 week maintainence, 2 days low, one week -500 deficit?

    Depends on the context. For the average MFP user, there wouldn't likely be any physiological benefits. However, if that's how you prefer to diet and you make good progress, then you should do it.
  • Stacyanne324
    Stacyanne324 Posts: 780 Member
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    Wether leptin is the key factor or not, the fact remains spiking has helped alot of people. There are many benefits both physical and mental that are in play. If done correctly you still maintain a calorie deficit, and imo it keeps your body thinking and not getting used to your diet. It makes sense that if you eat a large meal once a week or a large set of meals once per week your body will reset everyweek. Kinda like people say to take a couple weeks off every 3months to reset your body and metabolism. The spike day does this just more often on a smaller order. I beleive that is why alot of people that plateau have good results with spiking, it gets their body back to wandering if it's in a deficit or not. This is just my opinion, take it or leave it

    You could call it placebo if you want, but I feel the effects of leptin day to day. I feel my cravings increase just before Spike Day and then disappear for several days after Spike Day. For the record I felt this when I first started 8+ years ago well before I had any idea of what leptin was and many other Spikers report the same results.

    It works, the difference between Spikers and other dieters is that we love it! We actually enjoy losing weight this way and we are not miserable and hungry like many others who try to lose weight in other ways.

    This is so true. Believe the science behind it or not for me personally it has worked. And like Russ said the best part of it all is that it's fun. It is something i can stick to easily because it fits my lifestyle, it is enjoyable, and it has helped me lose weight. People should do whatever works for them and I'm sure I could also lose weight just dieting 7 days a week but I'll take this over that in a heartbeat.
  • jmsouth5
    jmsouth5 Posts: 138 Member
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    Thank you for posting this, UponthisRock.

    It's conceptually interesting, and I plan to apply it soon when I hit an interim weight goal I have been working on since October. It will be interesting to see what (if anything) a week of eating at maintenance level will do in the short-run as well as long-run. But, intuitively, I think the slow and steady approach works best, so the worst that will happen is I will hit my ultimate weight goal a week later. No big deal.

    WHAT THE HELL IS "EATING AT MAINTENANCE" MEAN??????????????
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    Thank you for posting this, UponthisRock.

    It's conceptually interesting, and I plan to apply it soon when I hit an interim weight goal I have been working on since October. It will be interesting to see what (if anything) a week of eating at maintenance level will do in the short-run as well as long-run. But, intuitively, I think the slow and steady approach works best, so the worst that will happen is I will hit my ultimate weight goal a week later. No big deal.

    WHAT THE HELL IS "EATING AT MAINTENANCE" MEAN??????????????
    Eating at a calorie level that will maintain your weight...
    HAVE-YOU-EVER-BEEN-SO-ANGRY_o_95178.jpg
  • Rocknut53
    Rocknut53 Posts: 1,794 Member
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    Thanks for this post, very informative!