"Old Fashioned" or "Traditional" gender roles
Replies
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Truthfully, this "old fashioned" and "traditional" nonsense is why I tend to prefer to date other women rather than men. When my partner and I are both the same gender, we come into this at the same level. There is no "traditions" that we have to depend on. Neither of us have to submit to the other. That makes me happy. Perhaps one of these times, I may find a man who wants the same thing.
Then again, I am "a woman who wants to be a man." I own no dresses or makeup, I am studying for a career in a male-dominated field (IT), and I don't have many "feminine" interests. I am not trying to rebel against being a woman, I am just doing what I want to do, gender roles be damned.0 -
It's all that dang Mrs Baird's fault for popularizing the sammich. If there were no sammiches, there would still be women that cook and men that slapped their old lady's a$s on the way to fetch him another beer. Oh how low we have fallen for the sammich.0
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Truthfully, this "old fashioned" and "traditional" nonsense is why I tend to prefer to date other women rather than men. When my partner and I are both the same gender, we come into this at the same level. There is no "traditions" that we have to depend on. Neither of us have to submit to the other. That makes me happy. Perhaps one of these times, I may find a man who wants the same thing.
Then again, I am "a woman who wants to be a man." I own no dresses or makeup, I am studying for a career in a male-dominated field (IT), and I don't have many "feminine" interests. I am not trying to rebel against being a woman, I am just doing what I want to do, gender roles be damned.
No one forces you into a traditional or modern role. That is your choice. I've never heard that as a reason to for switching sides.0 -
Truthfully, this "old fashioned" and "traditional" nonsense is why I tend to prefer to date other women rather than men. When my partner and I are both the same gender, we come into this at the same level. There is no "traditions" that we have to depend on. Neither of us have to submit to the other. That makes me happy. Perhaps one of these times, I may find a man who wants the same thing.
Then again, I am "a woman who wants to be a man." I own no dresses or makeup, I am studying for a career in a male-dominated field (IT), and I don't have many "feminine" interests. I am not trying to rebel against being a woman, I am just doing what I want to do, gender roles be damned.
No one forces you into a traditional or modern role. That is your choice. I've never heard that as a reason to for switching sides.
QFT0 -
Truthfully, this "old fashioned" and "traditional" nonsense is why I tend to prefer to date other women rather than men. When my partner and I are both the same gender, we come into this at the same level. There is no "traditions" that we have to depend on. Neither of us have to submit to the other. That makes me happy. Perhaps one of these times, I may find a man who wants the same thing.
Then again, I am "a woman who wants to be a man." I own no dresses or makeup, I am studying for a career in a male-dominated field (IT), and I don't have many "feminine" interests. I am not trying to rebel against being a woman, I am just doing what I want to do, gender roles be damned.
No one forces you into a traditional or modern role. That is your choice. I've never heard that as a reason to for switching sides.
Truthfully, it is obviously not the main reason why I am attracted to women (as much as I am attracted to men, admittedly). However, I find it a nice benefit. I am sure I will find men who want the same, eventually.
I support the idea of letting anyone perform any sort of role they want in life. Don't strike me as one of those kinds of women who find stay at home moms offensive, because I don't. I just don't care to be thought of as less of a woman if I don't follow the gender norm (trust me, I have been criticized for not doing so).0 -
he walks on the road side of the sidewalk.
^^ THIS! My husband & I get teased (literally!!) when we go places with our married friends because he ALWAYS does this and I automatically step to the inside away from traffic. We're known as "The old Couple" even though we're both in our 30's!!
He also asks my order and relays it to the wait staff when we go out AND drives the car on "date night". I've been both the bread winner (I made 2 times more than him at my last job) and the stay home Mommy. The one thing that works for us is at each new obstacle, we discus what the desired outcome should be. When we were dating, we simply TALKED about "What if..." Such as, at the restaurant, who should place the order?, Who should pay (this was my favorite, for a while I had more money than him, so I'd just slip it to him under the table and let "Him" pay :laugh: ) for dates?, Who gets to do the driving? Etc. Our whole life together has been the result of communicating whom desires what? When it comes to the kids, I get the poop and he gets the barf. I hate cleaning vomit and the smell of poop makes him ill. Not to say that we haven't "covered" for each other, but when it's available, we each jump into our desired "role" without hesitation. But these are things WE have decided, not society and labels. Though, I suppose if you were on the outside looking in, you'd see an old fashioned/traditional married couple.
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I like a little bit of traditional in my life.
I like that my better half does the heavy lifting and that he takes responsibility for making sure all our bills are paid (we pay equally, but he physically does it). And on the other hand, I don't mind having the major responsibility for making sure our apartment is clean and tidy. He helps, but sometimes I ask him to help, sometimes I don't. I do it much faster anyways. Sometimes he does it all on his own, and that's something I really treasure, because I know how much he hates it and how much time it takes him.
Shrug.
But decisions are made together. Final say? No. Way. Noway.0 -
I grew up with divorced parents and a working mom (well kind of )and so did my wife. In general I think there needs to be 50/50 as far as work around the house.
If one spouse works that spouse shouldn't have to clean as much / tend to children
If both spouses work they split it down the middle.
But come on.
I am old fashioned when it comes to-
Opening doors/ car doors... walking on the road side of the sidewalk...
I don't order for my wife, I barely know what I want.
"Sexual favors" are reciprocated too. If your a dude expecting her to do that for you, you shall be pleased to return the favor.0 -
So here's my take on the whole thing...a man is a gentleman...he opens doors, he pays on dates, he walks on the road side of the sidewalk. He works...he doesn't necessarily have to be the one making the most money in the house, but a man is supposed to work. He also does his part around the house...traditionally I guess it would be he handles the yard work while the woman handles everything inside the house...I kind of think that's BS...guys should do their part inside the house as well...when my wife and I were still together, and still gave a damn about keeping the house clean, we had an agreement that I would keep the living room and bedroom straight while she handled the kitchen and bathroom...mostly because she was better at that type of thing than I was.
So, now the ladies...they should be submissive...not in the sense that whatever the man says goes, but they should understand that ultimately the final decision is the husband's...however, the husband should be open to his wife's opinion, and not quick to make any decision without her consideration. The woman's first responsibility should be to the children, if there are any, but that doesn't mean she cannot have a career, and as previously mentioned...if she's the one making the most money, that's okay. I don't think that women are less capable of doing an upper management type job or whatever.
LOL no way! If my husband tried to "make decisions" for me, it would not go well for him.
We do discuss it and come to a mutual agreement, but the decision is not ultimately "his" ever when it concerns us both. It's ours. My say has as much weight as his.
And what happens when you're both coming at it from different angles and neither of you are willing to compromise? Do you just say "screw it" and nothing gets done about the situation?
We talk it out like adults who have a mutual respect for each other do! He never has the right to make decisions that affect us both without my okay. Same goes for me. I don't make decisions that affect us both without first clearing it with him. We have a working partnership. He is not dominant over me. I am not dominant over him.
If you can't learn to compromise to give and take, that's not a partnership. That's something else entirely.
You're obviously missing my point. You've already talked it out...you can't find compromise...but something has to be done. IMO, it's the man's place, as the head of the household, to make the decision.
And, I never said anything about not compromising or that it wasn't a partnership...I firmly believe that it is. Try not to read things that aren't there.
Sorry to jump in here.
I am not sure whether you are talking about 'traditional values' or the 21st century, so apologies if it is the former. But by what definition is a man the head of the household?0 -
My marriage is pretty much the definition of "old fashioned". Hubby works while I stay home and take care of our son. I do all the cleaning (though I do nag him sometimes to take out the trash, but he usually doesn't! lol
) I don't drive either, it's way too much anxiety for me. It has always been that way with us. I've never worked a job in my life, actually. I like it that way though, I really enjoy being taken care of and taking care of my family in return. He fixes things around the house too, which is awesome, because I don't know how to do much in the way of repairs. I can do a few simple things though. I garden, make dinner most nights, do all the laundry, and try to keep myself looking nice for him. When we go out, he pays of course, opens doors, (doesn't order for me, but always asks me to order first) and waits for me to sit down at the table before he will. We make decisions together on almost everything. He pays the bills and deals with all of the financial aspects of our life, but if he wants to buy something or we need something, we almost always discuss it first. He has bought a few things without talking to me about it, big things too, but it is his money to do that with. I'd never argue with him over it. One thing was a big screen TV, the other was a new car. The TV I was kinda confused and worried about, but the car was definitely a necessity. I voice my concerns if I have them when he does stuff like that, but honestly he always makes me feel comforted if I do worry about money. He has never treated me as if I'm less intelligent than he is (though we both know he is smarter than me, we also know I'm more creative.) but I know my place in our household and he knows his. It works for us, and we've been together 12 years this coming June, married for 5. :happy: It's not always sunshine and rainbows, but we work out our problems when we do have them. We've been through some very rough times and come out the other side alive so I believe we will be together as old folks, most definitely. :bigsmile: 0 -
For me, traditional gender roles is more about courtesy and style of clothing. I like when the female is graceful and when the man is stylish and powerful. I don't necessarily think that the man should be the one to earn all the money and such. That's rubbish. But a woman doesn't have to... drive trucks or whatever. There are a ton of jobs that would fit better. She can do whatever she likes, of course, but I personally wouldn't do that. I like my femininity.
I don't know. I like the slightly romantic idea of ladies in dresses and men in suits.0 -
he walks on the road side of the sidewalk.
^^ THIS! My husband & I get teased (literally!!) when we go places with our married friends because he ALWAYS does this and I automatically step to the inside away from traffic. We're known as "The old Couple" even though we're both in our 30's!!
He also asks my order and relays it to the wait staff when we go out AND drives the car on "date night". I've been both the bread winner (I made 2 times more than him at my last job) and the stay home Mommy. The one thing that works for us is at each new obstacle, we discus what the desired outcome should be. When we were dating, we simply TALKED about "What if..." Such as, at the restaurant, who should place the order?, Who should pay (this was my favorite, for a while I had more money than him, so I'd just slip it to him under the table and let "Him" pay :laugh: ) for dates?, Who gets to do the driving? Etc. Our whole life together has been the result of communicating whom desires what? When it comes to the kids, I get the poop and he gets the barf. I hate cleaning vomit and the smell of poop makes him ill. Not to say that we haven't "covered" for each other, but when it's available, we each jump into our desired "role" without hesitation. But these are things WE have decided, not society and labels. Though, I suppose if you were on the outside looking in, you'd see an old fashioned/traditional married couple.
I know guys that place an order for their wife/girlfriend...and that's always seemed weird to me...I guess, in my mind, it makes me think of the old "the woman should be seen and not heard" thing...I've always been more comfortable letting my date order first, and then I would place my order. Guess it's just different ways of being gentlemanly. lol0 -
Bumping to read later....very interesting. :-).0
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The problem I have with old fashioned or traditional gender roles, is their potential to limit someone's potential. If it is important to a man that he earns more than his wife, then he should achieve that by being better, smarter, more skilled and/or more ambitious than her. Not because she is stifling her own awesomeness to make him feel more manly. I also think that our world needs all kinds of people in positions of power in order to become a better and more just place. If you honestly believe that you should get final say over any decision because of what hangs between your legs then I doubt you're all up for a female leaders in terms of business and politics.
In terms of chores, I think it's just plain bad management to asignthese things based on weird inaccurate stereotypes, rather than the actual skillset and interests of the people involved. For example I am the driver, my husband is the passenger... I grew up on a farm, having been driving forever and he hates it... that makes sense for us... He loves to cook, I like to get in shed and build things... in terms of other interests though, we are very typically gender-aligned, I like clothes and shoes and trashy tv... he likes UFC and horror movies etc0 -
That would be if you are bringing home enough bacon for her not to have to have paid employment too!I'm pretty sure it means she has my pipe and slippers waiting for me when I get home from a hard day's work. And has made herself presentable.0 -
Feminism took a wrong turn when women tried to be the SAME as men. Equal doesn't mean identical. Women and men have naturally different roles obviously, and while there are some exceptions, men like women who are feminine and women like men who are manly. How they define those characteristics differs, but there are some constants. I don't know many women who like a guy that cries every time he sees a baby. And I don't know many men who like women that have farting contests.
Crying was actually considered manly in many cultures (the Ancient Greeks, for example). Then again, the Ancient Greeks thought the Persians were a bunch of girly-boys because Persian men wore pants instead of the much more masculine skirt.
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Spinning off of the "who should pay for the first date" thread, if you were writing a personal ad and claimed you had "old fashioned" or "traditional" family values, what exactly does that mean to you? Based on the previous thread it would appear a lot of people are confused about what "old fashioned" really means.
What is the role of the man? What is the role of the woman?
To me, "old fashioned" family values would be like the Leave it to Beaver family of the '50s: Husband goes to work in business suit and makes the money, also makes family decisions...Wife stays home and takes care of the kids and housework and has difficult decisions decided by good ol' hubby...man does "outside" chores and "fixing the house problems" kinds of things, woman cooks, cleans, etc...
In my marriage, we both work (I make more money, lol, but who cares, because we don't look at who makes more, we just look at the "OMG we make all this money in total together"). When it comes to chores, I cook because, well, honestly...he just can't. His food tastes bad unless it's a microwave dinner or a dessert. Besides, I honestly like to cook. We both clean house and cut grass, and we go grocery shopping together. There is none of this "he must do this/she must do that" BS. And the bill paying and who gets the bill at dinner thing? Since my money and his money is all OUR money, it doesn't matter at all to us. When we were just dating, he paid most of the time when we went out, but I paid some of times too because why should he go broke by feeding me all the time? That's silly. Especially since on my job, I get once a week so my bank account would normally have more money that second and fourth Friday night of the month than his since he gets paid every 2 weeks.
Now to me, "traditional" and "old fashioned" aren't necessarily the same thing. When I think of "traditional," I am thinking of this whole political debate crap we have going on in the US right now. I won't get into it. I don't want to be reported. But seriously, that's what I think of when I hear "traditional" family values.0 -
If I saw an ad where a guy wanted a woman with "traditional" or "old-fashioned" values I'd think he wanted a servant he could have sex with without paying. I'd also consider "trditional" to be more of a big into church, anti-gay, Republican stance as well. If I saw an ad where the woman wanted a "traditional" or "old fashioned" relationship I'd think she was lazy, didn't want to work, and wanted to be taken care of without having to get a job. Same bit for the "traditional" part. Neiter would appeal to me at all and I'd consider it a big time turn off and a red flag.
That said, hubby and I are in a sort of "old fashioned" marriage. He works outside the home. I've been a SAHM for 15 years. Our youngest will be 12 tomorrow. I still don't work outside the home. But I do work from home doing taxes and financial advising. My job is very part time the 2nd half of the year and pretty close to full time from Jan-June. But I'm home all day. I do most of the cleaning (more so when my work load is light) and almost all of the cooking. Kid1 (almost 15) mows the yard and takes out the trash. I try to not have much of anything for hubby to do around the house. However, when we were dating, we knew we wanted one of us to be the at home parent when the kids were small but figured that person would go back to work when the kids were in school full time. By then we realized that would just mean extra work for both of us, daycare in summer and over school breaks, etc. So I continued to stay home. As they got older we realized there are a lot of potential problems with latch-key teens and both of us had siblings who got into a lot of trouble during those hours between them coming home from school and our parents coming home from work. So I'm still home. It works for us but it's because our roles evolved into this and not because he ordered me to be a housewife or because I refused to work.0 -
Me and my husband both have what I consider traditional values, and that's partly why I fell in love with him.... I enjoy staying at home with my boys, caring for the home and cooking and all that (although I was a single mom before I met him so i didn't have the luxury). He feels it is his duty as a man to be the breadwinner and provide for his family, and he works hard in doing so, always trying to climb up the work ladder. He paid for every single date we went on... even though I got slightly tipsy our first date he never tried to take advantage. Infact he never pushed for sex until I gave the signs I was ready. We waited until marriage to have a child together. He opens doors for me and all that gentlemanly stuff.
You wouldn't expect him to be the man he is by his looks alone, but his dad raised him right
O, and we both voted for Obama, so i don't mean traditional in the political sense. lol. And he didn't force me to take on the role of housewife- it's something I wanted cuz it's so very hard for me to trust anyone with my boys..0 -
I believe there are no "traditional" values now a days. Because its a "new" world where men & women are supposed to be treated equally. I would LOVE to be a stay at home mom and take care of my baby, cook, clean and do that kind of thing, but find a man who will let her do that. Here are my views as what I think are traditional values.
Men:
Open Doors
Pull out chairs
Order for your SO
Do yard work
Work
(Should also ask father to marry daughter)
Drive
Women:
Clean house
Do laundry
Take care of kiddos
Take care of hubby
Cook
Stay home
Grocery Shop
Take care of all special occasions ( ie birthdays)0 -
If I saw an ad where a guy wanted a woman with "traditional" or "old-fashioned" values I'd think he wanted a servant he could have sex with without paying. I'd also consider "trditional" to be more of a big into church, anti-gay, Republican stance as well. If I saw an ad where the woman wanted a "traditional" or "old fashioned" relationship I'd think she was lazy, didn't want to work, and wanted to be taken care of without having to get a job. Same bit for the "traditional" part. Neiter would appeal to me at all and I'd consider it a big time turn off and a red flag.
That said, hubby and I are in a sort of "old fashioned" marriage. He works outside the home. I've been a SAHM for 15 years. Our youngest will be 12 tomorrow. I still don't work outside the home. But I do work from home doing taxes and financial advising. My job is very part time the 2nd half of the year and pretty close to full time from Jan-June. But I'm home all day. I do most of the cleaning (more so when my work load is light) and almost all of the cooking. Kid1 (almost 15) mows the yard and takes out the trash. I try to not have much of anything for hubby to do around the house. However, when we were dating, we knew we wanted one of us to be the at home parent when the kids were small but figured that person would go back to work when the kids were in school full time. By then we realized that would just mean extra work for both of us, daycare in summer and over school breaks, etc. So I continued to stay home. As they got older we realized there are a lot of potential problems with latch-key teens and both of us had siblings who got into a lot of trouble during those hours between them coming home from school and our parents coming home from work. So I'm still home. It works for us but it's because our roles evolved into this and not because he ordered me to be a housewife or because I refused to work.
So because you "evolved" into being a SAHM, it's ok, but if a woman knows from the get-go that she definitely wants to stay home and take care of her family, she's lazy.
:huh:0 -
I think it's funny how many women assume that a guy with 'traditional' values expects her to stay home and be Mrs. Cleaver. I have many traditional values, it's how I was raised...but, if you want to work...great! If you don't and we can afford it...great! If you don't, and we can't afford it...great (we'll figure it out...together)! If we are out to dinner, I will most often relay your order to the wait staff...it might seem silly, but it's a sign of my caring and respect, not a sign that you're incapable (think of it as me 'serving' you by doing it for you...rather than me 'dominating' you by not letting you do it). The same for opening doors...walking on the traffic side of the sidewalk (as I said before), driving the truck/car, etc. When you're with me, your safety, and happiness are my responsibility. If we were walking through a parking lot after a night out, and there was a group of men standing at the tailgate of a truck, I would switch you to the opposite side and instinctively give myself enough room as we went around them to react to any negative situation.
Again, you are my responsibility.
That's what 'traditional' is all about. Does this mean you can't take care of yourself? No. Does it mean that my way of showing you how I feel is to make sure that you don't have to do any single solitary thing I can do for you? Yes.
Except dishes of course...but only because I hate dishes, worse than cleaning toilets to be honest.
=p
More seriously though...once we're 'together' (even prior to living together, if we're committed)...and have determined that the world won't be facing either of us alone, things even out a bit as far as relaxing financially, and sharing responsibilities. Of course both of our money (no matter who makes more) is 'ours'. Any major purchase I make will be cleared, or any purchase period depending on how our financial situation sits. Decisions regarding any children...including mine or your current children, should be made together. If I love you enough to live with you, you bet I trust you enough to help me raise my children, anything less would simply be insulting to you...and that would never happen.
The list goes on...but I want to make sure that I get across that NONE of these behaviors are designed, intended...or in any other way performed in order to make you LESS than what you are. Your intelligence, resourcefulness, and all of the other things that make you special are WHY I do them (why we're together), not something I'm trying to suppress in order to make myself seem more or better. The fact that you...as special as you are...have chosen to be with me, is what makes me more, and better. Making you feel special, and doing what I can for you...is the least I can do to return that feeling.
I hope that makes sense.0 -
The man has to kill the bugs...
^^^ this!!! and pays on the first date 0 -
The man has to kill the bugs...
I used a .22 caliber pistol once - not popular with the ladies in the house.0 -
Okay since this was brought up, my husband works full time. I stay home and clean, cook and take care of the children. When he comes home, I generally have supper ready, house presentable and most of my homework done because I am a college student online. I fetch whatever he needs: drinks food and whatever else after he comes home. While he is at work, I work on my homework and pick up the house. This includes the laundry, ironing, and putting away. We have two children that are in the home as well. However, my husband believes that I do nothing all day long and that I should be doing 8 hours of something other than homework. Yeah he is one of those.0
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If I saw that I'd assume:
-The man is the main breadwinner, especially when there are children involved. As in not necessarily that the woman doesn't work at all, but that it's unlikely there will be daycare/babysitting apart from a few hours a week maybe.
-The woman does the majority of the household chores / cleaning.
-The man is the protector/provider.
-Man opens doors, pull seat out for the woman, general chivalry.
It can vary though IMO from extreme (no working at all for the woman, man doesn't involve himself much if any in the general household running and raising kids, woman is completely dependant on him financially) to fairly relaxed but still holding traditions (childcare placed of higher importance than being a career woman, man pays for dates etc)0 -
Okay since this was brought up, my husband works full time. I stay home and clean, cook and take care of the children. When he comes home, I generally have supper ready, house presentable and most of my homework done because I am a college student online. I fetch whatever he needs: drinks food and whatever else after he comes home. While he is at work, I work on my homework and pick up the house. This includes the laundry, ironing, and putting away. We have two children that are in the home as well. However, my husband believes that I do nothing all day long and that I should be doing 8 hours of something other than homework. Yeah he is one of those.
That sucks...and I'm sorry. When my boys mom and I were together...she did many of the same things for me when I got home (I worked from 4am until sometimes later than 4pm usually, 5-6 days a week). However, I also did all of the same things for her. She did an excellent job keeping the house clean, and taking care of the kids. I know that that is work...regardless of whether it's the same kind or difficulty of work that I was doing. Our time together after I got home, was relaxation and appreciation time for both of us...not time for her to let me relax and be appreciated because I worked so hard all day.0 -
Wow...in reading all these responses I can't help but wonder where I fall in terms of traditional v.s more modern values. I think one of my biggest issues with my last relationship was that there was no sharing in the chores, and responsibilities of running a household. We both work full time, we both are tired when we get home, and damned if I'm going to do all the work in the house too!
Some of our best moments were when we did things together, like cooking a meal together for each other, doing yardwork together and horsing around.
I've worked since the age of 15 plus got myself a nice education to boot. I don't think there will be a time in my life where I'd choose the more traditional role and stay home, but I can definitly understand how that dynamic works for many couples, even in today's society.
Very interesting topic though
Edited for spelling >.<0 -
Old fashioned...
The man is the provider, handles all the finances, drives, takes care of the lawn, takes out the trash, kills varmints & fixes anything that's broken.
The woman does everything else.0 -
That sucks...and I'm sorry. When my boys mom and I were together...she did many of the same things for me when I got home (I worked from 4am until sometimes later than 4pm usually, 5-6 days a week). However, I also did all of the same things for her. She did an excellent job keeping the house clean, and taking care of the kids. I know that that is work...regardless of whether it's the same kind or difficulty of work that I was doing. Our time together after I got home, was relaxation and appreciation time for both of us...not time for her to let me relax and be appreciated because I worked so hard all day.
Do you teach classes on how to treat a lady? You should It might save a relationship or 2...it took me leaving for my ex-husband to realize how badly he was treating me and the kids and even then, it took at least another 6 months for it to completely sink in. 0
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