"It's SIMPLE! Burn more than you consume!" (B.S.)
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Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes.
Get through that and tell me it's as simple as in & out.
Other than the section on the lipid hypothesis, the rest is a bunch of garbage
...says the skinny guy that's never had an issue with weight.
Explain why study after study cited and reviewed is "a bunch of garbage."
Cuz they all make money off of eachother? *scratches head*0 -
I agree with ramgi. I think the lady just wanted to have a vent, whether her ideas about weight loss were correct or not. I don't think the sarcastic and unsupportive comments were what this site intended to promote. Instead of the frosty or downright nasty replies, surely someone could have just offered some support and said they hoped she found what was going wrong with her diet and fitness plan soon.
Come on guys, don't you ever have days when you just need to get something off your chest and don't want advice?
^THIS!!!!!
When you post something you know is controversial, and do it in a confrontational manner, then you can, and should, expect some serious blowback. Don't start a fire if you can't stand the heat.
Do I not appear to be handling the heat? I think I'm doing OK. I'm not in a corner crying rocking and sucking my thumb or anything. Yes, I vented. Yes, a few people that feel better when they're being nasty, rude, or belittling to others piped in. That's going to happen no matter WHAT you post.
Let me just throw something WILD out there, though - with this group of people (meaning the people that regularly read post to the forums) ANY TOPIC IS CONTROVERSIAL!!!!!0 -
Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes.
Get through that and tell me it's as simple as in & out.
Other than the section on the lipid hypothesis, the rest is a bunch of garbage
...says the skinny guy that's never had an issue with weight.
Explain why study after study cited and reviewed is "a bunch of garbage."
Yup i've never been overweight, you got me there
To start Taubes found a single study he found interesting (that the obese at as much if not less than the lean and yet were overweight) and then cherry picked studies to support, it must not be overeating that causes obesity. He failed to take into consideration that, that study that it relied on self reported intake, which the obese have been shown to consistently to underreport intake. He then makes the asinine that carrbs and only carbs are what make you fat because carbs and only carbs spike insulin (which is false btw)
Shall we talk about it some more?
I'm not sure we even read the same book if that is your takeaway. What an incredible oversimplification of what was presented. There is a growing body of evidence that it's not so simple as in>out, yet the flat earthers can't admit our understanding is changing.
Our bodies are incredibly complex, so I'm not sure why people assume the answer is that simple. And yes, I understand thermodynamics, I'm an engineer. Our bodies are not power plants. We don't even know with absolute certainty how many calories are in macronutrients.0 -
Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes.
Get through that and tell me it's as simple as in & out.
Other than the section on the lipid hypothesis, the rest is a bunch of garbage
...says the skinny guy that's never had an issue with weight.
Explain why study after study cited and reviewed is "a bunch of garbage."
Yup i've never been overweight, you got me there
To start Taubes found a single study he found interesting (that the obese at as much if not less than the lean and yet were overweight) and then cherry picked studies to support, it must not be overeating that causes obesity. He failed to take into consideration that, that study that it relied on self reported intake, which the obese have been shown to consistently to underreport intake. He then makes the asinine that carrbs and only carbs are what make you fat because carbs and only carbs spike insulin (which is false btw)
Shall we talk about it some more?
I'm not sure we even read the same book if that is your takeaway. What an incredible oversimplification of what was presented. There is a growing body of evidence that it's not so simple as in>out, yet the flat earthers can't admit our understanding is changing.
Our bodies are incredibly complex, so I'm not sure why people assume the answer is that simple. And yes, I understand thermodynamics, I'm an engineer. Our bodies are not power plants. We don't even know with absolute certainty how many calories are in macronutrients.
Please read this:
http://weightology.net/?p=2650 -
Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes.
Get through that and tell me it's as simple as in & out.
Other than the section on the lipid hypothesis, the rest is a bunch of garbage
...says the skinny guy that's never had an issue with weight.
Explain why study after study cited and reviewed is "a bunch of garbage."
Yup i've never been overweight, you got me there
To start Taubes found a single study he found interesting (that the obese at as much if not less than the lean and yet were overweight) and then cherry picked studies to support, it must not be overeating that causes obesity. He failed to take into consideration that, that study that it relied on self reported intake, which the obese have been shown to consistently to underreport intake. He then makes the asinine that carrbs and only carbs are what make you fat because carbs and only carbs spike insulin (which is false btw)
Shall we talk about it some more?
I'm not sure we even read the same book if that is your takeaway. What an incredible oversimplification of what was presented. There is a growing body of evidence that it's not so simple as in>out, yet the flat earthers can't admit our understanding is changing.
Our bodies are incredibly complex, so I'm not sure why people assume the answer is that simple. And yes, I understand thermodynamics, I'm an engineer. Our bodies are not power plants. We don't even know with absolute certainty how many calories are in macronutrients.
But Taubes points the finger at carbs and only at carbs, with gems like this,
"If you restrict only carbohydrates, you can always eat more protein and fat if you feel the urge, since they have no effect on fat accumulation"
"But protein and fat don't make us fat-only the carbohydrates do-so there is no reason to curtail them in any way"
And why does he do that? Because according to him, only carbs can spike your insulin. Whoops but that is a fabrication in his mind
Holt et al. An insulin index of foods: the insulin demand generated by 1000-kJ portions of common foods. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 66, 1264-1276
http://www.ajcn.org/content/66/5/1264.full.pdf+html
There are things that can effect the cals out side of equation, but doesn't make it any less true.
BTW: If you want to read some more on the obese under reporting intake and expenditure, here you go
Discrepancy between Self-Reported and Actual Caloric Intake and Exercise in Obese Subjects
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199212313272701
Is Obesity Caused by Calorie Underestimation? A Psychophysical Model of Meal Size Estimation
http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/pdf/permission/2007/CalorieUnderestimation-JMR2007.pdf0 -
MeliciousGibs: I've gone through a similar thing as you before, and I'd like to share my story/opinion:
In previous jobs I've worked, I've had to almost continuously ride a bicycle for 7.5 to 8 hours. I was definitely eating less than what I was burning. I didn't, however, lose that much weight (I lost around 10 pounds). But what did happen? I gained a whole bunch of muscle. So the scale didn't move much, and I didn't look all that smaller, but I felt the fittest I've ever felt, and I was more toned.
I'm no biologist, but to me, that was my body's way of responding to the fact that I was being active all the time 5 days a week. My body didn't need to get smaller, it needed more muscle to meet the demands I was making of it.
I realize this may not apply to your situation, but I figured I'd say it anyway.0 -
I think they make lotion for the chaffing of nether-parts.
PLEASE tell me what it is, cause the itching has become unbearable.
:laugh:
...nothing worthwhile to contribute, but thanks for the laughs.0 -
Congrats on defeating the laws of thermodynamics. I always knew physicists were just making things up!0
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Do I not appear to be handling the heat? I think I'm doing OK. I'm not in a corner crying rocking and sucking my thumb or anything. Yes, I vented. Yes, a few people that feel better when they're being nasty, rude, or belittling to others piped in. That's going to happen no matter WHAT you post.
Let me just throw something WILD out there, though - with this group of people (meaning the people that regularly read post to the forums) ANY TOPIC IS CONTROVERSIAL!!!!!
Actually I wasn't referring to you. I was thinking of a couple other recent topics where people have posted really off the wall nonsense, with much vehemence, and then cried when they were taken to task for it.
But I stand by what I say. Your original post was intentionally confrontational, and you shouldn't have been at all surprised by the snarky replies you got back.0 -
I'm going to agree with you. I for one burn more calories than I take in. But for me I went a good 20 years of only eating once a day, living on coffee and now have metabolic syndrome so my hormones are screwed up. There is more to it than just that. At least that's my opinion.0
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Oh lord...who can be mad at this little thing even if he was mean....LOL0 -
Actually, what she said wasn't wrong - anymore than you were or were not.
If you wanna go "lalalallalalalala" how's about it ( as in go ahead) but don't call it science either way with limited facts.
And yes, 20 people could very easily generate 10 different results. The same person could generate different results from one weight loss to the next...
Age, race, fitness levels, muscle development, breathing isues, sleep patterns, types of food, developing hormonal issues, the amount of weight you have lost, and much more all contribute...off meds, on meds, colds, disease...it all an affect this.
Your body can burn fat (or muscle) but can hold on to nurtients, trace minerals, water and not all lipids go away, and the fat we burn can be stored in other ways - that is why you can continue to lose size and not lose weight.
This is all way too complicated. I give up. Where are the Body by Vi salesmen? HELP PLEASE, WEIGHT LOSS IS MAGIC AND MAGIC IS CRAZY0 -
OK, I wasn't going to post to this, but I can't bear it anymore. I understand biologics are complex systems that can be difficult to completely define...
However, they can only "fool" the laws of physics for a short period of time. The 2nd law of thermodynamics (yeah, I said it) pretty much says that you can't gain weight unless you are burning less than you consume.
Your body (and your measurement systems) can fool it for a week, maybe two, or longer if your measurements are off, but over time, if you burn more than you consume, you will lose weight until you are out of fat reserves, then die. (don't go that far!)
For more info, look up the 2nd law of thermo and perpetual motion.
Just is not so simple - you body can and will hold onto other things if for one of soooo many different reasons it determines (not to mean to make it sound like it is thinking about it) it needs to store building blocks - it is to basal to quote thermodynamics, and "be done".
yeah, but it IS that simple. That is the point. I am not talking about a few days, or a week, because your body has mechanisms to deal with variation. But, long term, if you burn more than you eat, you will lose weight, then die. Case closed. That is how people starve to death. Your body can only compensate for so long, until it gives in to the energy balance.
If you are at a calorie deficit long term and don't lose weight, the only explanation is 1) overestimating activity or 2) underestimating intake 3) a nuclear reactor in your belly?0 -
Obviously there is study after study that refutes a previous study and vice versa. From purely anecdotal evidence Taubes' theory works (for myself and multiple others I know personally). Other methods can and will work for other people, just like some methods won't work. Again, it's not simple. Diet is extremely complex. Telling people "just cut down your calories" or "work out longer/harder/differently" is obviously not working for us collectively.
And if you were fat then congrats on your success. When your profile indicates "a few pounds" it's easy to assume that's all it's ever been.0 -
Obviously there is study after study that refutes a previous study and vice versa. From purely anecdotal evidence Taubes' theory works (for myself and multiple others I know personally). Other methods can and will work for other people, just like some methods won't work. Again, it's not simple. Diet is extremely complex. Telling people "just cut down your calories" or "work out longer/harder/differently" is obviously not working for us collectively.
And if you were fat then congrats on your success. When your profile indicates "a few pounds" it's easy to assume that's all it's ever been.
Do you know why his "theory" works? A caloric deficit! So magically the energy balance equation still holds.0 -
And if you were fat then congrats on your success. When your profile indicates "a few pounds" it's easy to assume that's all it's ever been.
Why do you continue to imply that someones physique has any indication of the quality of their information?0 -
I totally understand the OP's frustration. I've felt frustrated too when I felt that I was doing all I could do but not making headway; HOWEVER, if it wasn't as simple as calories in and calories out, people who were held in Auschwitz or people living in the Sudan wouldn't have looked like skeletons. Granted, no one here is shooting for that look...and to be healthy and fit requires a lot more than calorie counting...but yeah, that's my two cents.0
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OK, I was just venting because I've been extremely frustrated that I've been doing all of the "right" things based on opinions from different people. Trust me, I've tried the "Eat more to lose weight", I've tried the 15% less than TDEE....I've given plenty of time in between applications to give it time to actually work. And nothing.
Today I finally just snapped when someone said to me flat out, "I don't know why you're stressing - it's simple. Burn more than you take in". If it were that simple, would I be struggling like I am?
As for varying my routine - the only thing I can do is ADD. I am a Zumba Instructor - I teach Zumba. There's only so much you can do with a Zumba format... So I can try to add strength training to one of the days I'm also teaching Zumba. This is a job, I can't just NOT do it.
I do appreciate the nasty and sarcastic responses, though! (by the way, that's my own sarcasm, in case you missed it) It serves to remind me why I rarely ever post to these forums. Such a nasty and unsupportive place. Honestly, I've never known a forum be so full of such nasty people in my life - and I've belonged to more than a few of them!
I'm happy to have been able to provide you with the opportunity to get it all out, though! Carry on!
I'm going to give you a completely different response by saying that the statement IS true, BUT the burning of the calories part of the statement isn't as simple as it appears.
We all know skinny people who eat loads of junk and who do little or no exercise, right? Why aren't they fat? It's because everyone's body is unique (apart from most identical twins). As at least one other poster implied, human metabolism is a mysterious beast. Age, gender, genetics, medical conditions and medications can all play their part. Sadly, I'm learning (partly due to this website), that I have to take in fewer calories than I think I'm using. It sucks, and I empathise with you and every other person who struggles with this.
On upside, you look lovely in your photo. :-)0 -
I totally understand the OP's frustration. I've felt frustrated too when I felt that I was doing all I could do but not making headway; HOWEVER, if it wasn't as simple as calories in and calories out, people who were held in Auschwitz or people living in the Sudan wouldn't have looked like skeletons. Granted, no one here is shooting for that look...and to be healthy and fit requires a lot more than calorie counting...but yeah, that's my two cents.
Why don't you throw in the starving children in Ethiopia and REALLY depress everyone. Yikes.
But I totally agree with your point
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In general - I think when you have a lot to lose 'eating less moving more' is a great strategy and you will see results. But I think as you get close to a healthy weight it gets more 'scientific' then that. There is no guesstimating. You need to know your BMR, TDEE, how many calories you are burning during exercise to get the right 'formula' for your body. I also think you need to change it up every so often to keep yourself challenged and your body guessing. I think..for me, it's always going to be a evolving process of finding what is working the best.0
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So many Bullies in one place at the same time. I thought this site was for support. It seems like everyones jumped on the band wagon to knock this woman down. Nice work people, i mean really. Chill !!0
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And if you were fat then congrats on your success. When your profile indicates "a few pounds" it's easy to assume that's all it's ever been.
Why do you continue to imply that someones physique has any indication of the quality of their information?
"Information" is pretty loose here. It's a lot of opinion. Someone who has struggled and solved it has a lot more experience than someone who was gifted with a naturally high metabolism and has thus not struggled.0 -
By the looks of your user name, you are a male deer, and I refuse to believe anything that you have to say on this topic....says the skinny guy that's never had an issue with weight.
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Why are some people so rude and hateful? The majority of us on here are trying to better our bodies, but then say hurtful things which makes me think you need a personality change too. We should be supportive not rude. If you disagree - say so, but don't belittle people, think how you feel when someone calls you something nasty about your weight. They bully you, so you become a bully yourself?
We are becoming inspirations for future generations, but some people are showing little in the way of accepting other peoples opinions, I can't believe in 2012 people still act this way.
I know this do not apply to all, but there is no need - be happy in yourself, accept other people think differently to you. If its their problem, leave it with them - why burden yourself with negative thoughts? Negative thoughts give you wrinkles. Nuff said 0 -
"Information" is pretty loose here. It's a lot of opinion. Someone who has struggled and solved it has a lot more experience than someone who was gifted with a naturally high metabolism and has thus not struggled.
If I told you that two years ago, I was 250lbs, would you take my information more seriously?
What about 300?
What about 400?
Have you seen what Gary Taubes looks like? By your logic, shouldn't you throw his book in the trash?
I'm not trying to pick on you here, just trying to see if I can understand what you're using to validate information.0 -
OK, so that statement really chafes my nether-parts.
It is so NOT that darn simple!
I am a Zumba Instructor. I teach a 1 hour class at the MINIMUM of 3 times/week. On average I AM burning more calories than I consume and I am NOT losing weight anymore. I've been teaching about 6 classes/week for the past 2 weeks and haven't been eating any more or any less and I haven't gained or lost a SINGLE FRIGGING POUND!
By the way, I'm NOT asking advice, because I can almost promise you for 20 different people at least 10 different answers. Not gonna help me, but thanks anyway. I simply wanted to point out that this statement gets thrown around so much and it's just blatantly NOT TRUE!
It makes me angry too as I have been working my butt off to lose weight since December. I've done it before and now doing the same exact thing wasn't working. I actually quit talking to my friends/co-workers about it because it was making me angry to hear the "its simple - just don't eat as much." Umm - trust me I've tried that. So I did the same thing - thought I wasn't eating enough - did that for about 3 weeks and still nothing. There are a lot of reasons why some people don't lose it that easy. I did Jenny Craig - paid a lot of money for it - didn't cheat at all and in two weeks had not lost one pound! Explain that - if its as easy as eat less? Why do you people get so angry when someone posts a I'm frustrated post on here - if you can't identify with it and be supportive - then why not just move on to something else. I had all the tests done too - nothing - no thyroid trouble, no hormonal trouble - nothing. So why if I only eat 1200 calories a day - walk 30 to 40 minutes a day (fast pace walking) and have one splurge meal on a weekend night - and I'm talking nothing too crazy - just maybe actually have a baked potato with my dinner or have a regular mexican dinner that I don't even eat all of and a few glasses of wine, don't I lose weight, if its that easy? Everybody is different - what works for you - may not work for one.
Now I am following the 17 day diet and am on my 9th day and have lost 1 whole pound - woo hoo! There are people losing anywhere from 2 to 6 lbs a week on this diet plan. Explain that? I actually quit logging in and just following my plan because logging all the food was actually making it harder to stick to my plan. So since last week I have followed the plan to the T - ok - I did have a glass of wine with dinner over the weekend and I did forget to drink my lemon water a couple days. I am eating plenty as I am not "hungry" so I'm not starving myself - I'm eating regular size healthy portions. Is there a reason - yes I am sure there is a reason behind why I'm having a difficult time losing. But is it beause its as simple as eat less calories than you burn - nope - it is not.0 -
Let me just throw something WILD out there, though - with this group of people (meaning the people that regularly read post to the forums) ANY TOPIC IS CONTROVERSIAL!!!!!
Well of course it is! We're all either frustrated because we're eating at a deficit, or frustrated because we're not losing weight!
Because it is all about calories-in, calories-out. :laugh: :flowerforyou:0 -
And if you were fat then congrats on your success. When your profile indicates "a few pounds" it's easy to assume that's all it's ever been.
Why do you continue to imply that someones physique has any indication of the quality of their information?
"Information" is pretty loose here. It's a lot of opinion. Someone who has struggled and solved it has a lot more experience than someone who was gifted with a naturally high metabolism and has thus not struggled.
"gifted" with "high metabolism"
What makes you think that that person does not work their *kitten* off keeping their "high metabolism"? What makes you think, for even a second, that that person does not put equal or more effort into their nutrition and exercise goals that you do? Just because they are ahead of the game and never allowed themselves to get fat you are going to discount their opinion on health? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.0 -
wow..dieting sure makes people crabby:grumble:0
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I guess I just don't see the point.
Posting a vent like this, especially in the general weight loss section instead of chit chat section, appears to be a request to receive feedback--even if you say you don't want feedback. It's amazingly short sighted to think that simply asking people not to respond to you when you're using an interface designed specifically, and almost solely, for having threaded conversations will actually be effective.
I'm not sure what it is about the internet that makes people feel entitled to being able to spout off to the world without reprisal or response.
Don't like the comments? Post your rants to a blog that has comments turned off. This is like watching someone walk into a grocery store and get mad that the butcher won't sell them a car.0
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