I am about to get controversial..
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As an adult who used to be an abused child, I will never, ever, EVER hit my children. I don't hit my dog. I don't hit other people. To resort to laying a hand on another being only displays your lack of ability to deal with the situation in a constructive manner, which just shows weakness, not strength. And your children don't respect your opinions and your requests, they are simply afraid of you.
I am a firm believer that treating your child like a human being, yet, starting young, create a strong foundation of consequences for actions is necessary. Nowadays, I feel there is no consistency and follow up for mis-behavior. And more parents are interested in making money than giving attention to their children. Even though you may be spanking that child, at least you are paying attention to them. Children shouldn't have to resort to poor behavior to obtain their parent's attention.
I'm not saying this is your case, or anyone's in particular. This is my opinion based on what I have seen. And how I have felt.
I do not believe those children wouldn't have bullied the bus monitor if they had been spanked. I believe they wouldn't have bullied the bus monitor if their parents had showed them the consequences of hurting someone's feelings.0 -
I'm not anti-spanking, but I do believe it should be used sparingly, if at all. There's a big difference between a child understanding that there are consequences to their actions and simply fearing a parent. I think constant spanking leads to the later, especially when it's done more out of anger than it is discipline. Or, the child gets used to it, figures the sting doesn't last long, and it's no longer effective. I can't say that spankings (with a belt) disciplined me as a child. All it really did was cause me to cover my tracks better so I didn't get caught doing things I wasn't supposed to, it didn't teach me WHY what I did was wrong and why it was important to stop that behavior.
That said, my boys have each been spanked once that I can remember. In both instances, it was when they put themselves in danger. One ran out in the street, the other it was because he didn't seem to get that you can't put metal objects in electric outlets (in each incident, they'd had prior warnings). They'd never been swatted before. It shocked the hell out of them and now there is no more running in to the street or outlet incidents.
It very well could be that the behavior in kids now is due to lack of discipline, but I think it goes deeper than that. We're a busy society. We're always on the go, from morning until bed time. It's hard to find that quality time that kids used to get with parents. going to the park, board games etc.... In order to teach children, we have to spend time with them, and time is rarely available anymore. And when things are busy, we say things like "I can't play right now honey, I have to do (insert random errand here), you can bring your DS along and play with that though" <
That is not a judgement towards any parent, those very words have come out of my mouth. Discipline around here us usually being grounded, it's followed through with, and a long talk about why their behavior was unnacceptable follows. I try to get them both out for some quality time whenever possible. Now, since kids don't come with a handbook, I can only hope that this will mold them in to upstanding men when they grow up, but I have no way of knowing.0 -
I believe we should allow physical discipline back in the schools. Put yourself in the shoes of the teacher, this child is being completely rude and has a complete lack of respect but all you can do is take it or send them to the principles office where they get to sit in "timeout" and get out of class for the day.
Whine all you want but look at the differences between schools from those days to now and parents need to know not every child can be disciplined with timeouts. Discipline is like everything else, what may work for some may not work for others.
I need to ask... Do you have children? I don't hit my child and if anyone else put their hands on my son I would lose my *kitten*. In my experience, children with behavior problems tend to have a lack of discipline and follow through at home. This is not a blanket statement. Is my son perfect,? No, but he knows what is and is not acceptable behavior. If he misbehaves, there are consequences and he knows it.
Good job, Mom. You set limits and boundaries. Your son is aware of what these are. You follow up (CONSISTENTLY) with appropriate consequences. That is why you do not find it necessary to hit your child. Good for you. Your child will thank you, too.0 -
There is a school in SC that allows the teachers to physically discipline the children. They send home a consent form for the parent to sign. I absolutely would sign it. I grew up that way and was spanked at home. This "new" generation does not and that's what is wrong with the world today
I would write "Just Call Me" on it and send it back.
I don't mind discipline at school, just not physical discipline. If they've done what they normally do, and it doesn't work, or this time it is something much worse, just call me.
I'm not going down there to argue with the teacher, or to blame them. I'm going down there to be on the teacher's team, to work with them to shut down whatever it is he's doing.
My son gets the message, but I need to be involved.. I think as a parent it is my responsibility to be involved.0 -
Ah yes, the argument for the "good ole days". Back when things were so much better...
It isn't whining for me to say I don't want strangers hitting my kids. Not teachers, not school administration and certainly not bus drivers. I will maintain responsibility for my child's behavior. If they act out, just let me know. I don't need anyone stepping in with their brand of justice without my consent.
For the record my daughter has never once been hit and has never once been anything close to a discipline problem.
I've been lucky with my kids but I have no problem spanking them if they needed it, luckily they didn't need it much.
But the problem comes with parents who just don't give a damn about what their kids do. Thats where the true problem lies. They aren't going to spank because they don't care. NOT TO SAY IF YOU DON'T SPANK YOU DON'T CARE, but you truly have to care for your kids to make sure they act right in public, that they have manners sitting at your table and others, that they treat elders with respect (I also think elders must respect them in order to get respect) that they know right from wrong and they have concequences for the wrong and praise for the right. It really isn't about spanking it's about caring. The thugs out doing things like this have no one at home that "CARES" for them.
Have you ever thought maybe you haven't been lucky? Maybe you've just been a good parent.
You're right that the problem is bad parents, period. My point is that adding hitting into the equation isn't going to solve anything. I would wager anything that the children we're talking about on the bus have been hit plenty. It doesn't automatically make them behave.
Good parents. That what makes a child behave. Spanking or no spanking.0 -
I agree with OP 100%. I didn't have to spank my son much (he's 12 now) but my daugher, who is about to turn 3, she is a different story. Time out, yelling, nothing works with her...so she gets spankings. Not wtih a belt, or a switch or anything other than my open hand..on her bottom. Even that doesn't work sometimes...but I agree with spankings. There is a big difference in spankings and abuse....HUGE! I can tell you that if my children EVER disrespect someone the way those little brats did on that video to that lady, they would be WORN OUT......I don't care if they are elementary, Middle, or High school. There is NO reason for that and today's society makes me sick sometimes.0
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Spankings aren't for children.0
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I'm not anti-spanking, but I do believe it should be used sparingly. There's a big difference between a child understanding that there are consequences to their actions and simply fearing a parent. I think constant spanking leads to the later, especially when it's done more out of anger than it is discipline. Or, the child gets used to it, figures the sting doesn't last long, and it's no longer effective. I can't say that spankings (with a belt) disciplined me as a child. All it really did was cause me to cover my tracks better so I didn't get caught doing things I wasn't supposed to, it didn't teach me WHY what I did was wrong and why it was important to stop that behavior.
That said, my boys have each been spanked once that I can remember. In both instances, it was when they put themselves in danger. One ran out in the street, the other it was because he didn't seem to get that you can't put metal objects in electric outlets (in each incident, they'd had prior warnings). They'd never been swatted before. It shocked the hell out of them and now there is no more running in to the street or outlet incidents.
Another Mom that is doing a great job. You are absolutely right. If you hit (or spank) your child the lesson he/she learns is to fear the parent (I"m bigger - what I say goes) and to be sneaky about their actions. How lucky your boys will be when they are teenagers, out in public, dealing with peer pressure and they will have the ability to think through the consequences of theri actions. Not just fear being caught. Pat on the back to you!
It very well could be that the behavior in kids now is due to lack of discipline, but I think it goes deeper than that. We're a busy society. We're always on the go, from morning until bed time. It's hard to find that quality time that kids used to get with parents. going to the park, board games etc.... In order to teach children, we have to spend time with them, and time is rarely available anymore. And when things are busy, we say things like "I can't play right now honey, I have to do (insert random errand here), you can bring your DS along and play with that though" <
That is not a judgement towards any parent, those very words have come out of my mouth.0 -
This is like arguing if smoking is healthy or not.
Hitting a child does not necessarily produce a respectful child. It produces a fearful one. Don't ask me, read the professional journals. If it was one journal, I'd say OK, maybe they're wrong. But, there is not a single journal anymore that promotes spanking.
When you spank a child, some of the problems can be, with a little boy, you can accidentlly hit his balls. It's is a large issue. Ask a old-time doctor. You can put their spine out of place. There are many physical dangers. Just because it didn't happen to you, doesn't mean it can't. It does and it is well documented.
It also teaches to respect people out of fear.
It teaches that violence is the answer. It shows your kids that through brute froce, you can make people obey.
Stupid lessons.
On the other hand, it makes it hard to be a parent. How the hell do you discipline a kids.
I have my own way, just like every other parent.
When it comes to safety, all bets are off, and I do whatever I have to do in the moment. If they start to dart out in to the street, and I see a car coming, I'll grab their damn hair and pull them back, if that's all I can grab. Their feeling happy or respected is NOT my concern at that moment. So, that's that. But, without any impending danger, how do you discpline and teach them respect. I dont know. I do know that it's hard. Some times I am yelling at my kids and they stand their laughing. Don't think I don't have thoughts of right-crossing them through the wall. But, i don't. But, i can really mess up their lives. I sent my daughter to bed with no dinner. i don't make that a habit, but I can do things like that. She ate a couple hours before, so she wasn't starving. I take away things. To get back at me, they will say they don't care. But, I know they do. So, I hold on, and time goes by, and they start asking if they can ride their bike, or turn on their Xbox. At that point, I now have a learning opportunity in front of me.
If you think of kids like people, instead of like sub-people, you will realize that hitting them is stupid. What if your boss at work came up to you and hit you because you didn't get a report done on time. Geez. But, rather than that, they hit you where it counts, your wallet.
Anyway, that's my whole take on spanking.0 -
I don't know that it has so much to do with not spanking as it does lack of discipline and consequences.
I agree. There are many ways to give a child discipline without spanking. My kids don't need spanking. Time outs, taking away toys or privileges, etc. work extremely well for my kids. Rewarding good behavior (even if it's just a hug) teaches them that behaving well is better than getting in trouble.
I was spanked as a child. It taught me to fear getting in trouble and to fear my mother. It didn't make me want to behave because behaving properly was the right thing to do.
I am strict with my kids. They start learning the rules as soon as they can crawl and get into things. I constantly correct their behavior. It's a lot more time and labor intensive than if I were to spank them. But, I have extremely happy, well behaved kids who know better than to intentionally get in trouble.0 -
Why would anyone want to hit a child?? :noway:
You don't want to hit a child just like you don't want to ground them but certain actions require different punishments. My kids knew well and good that a spanking meant they really messed up. I can count on one hand how many times I needed to spank but I can count on one finger how many times they did what they did to earn it.
Sigh. The emphasis was on child.
Why would anyone hit a child?
Is that better? Forget the "want" part.
Hitting a child is abuse, spanking a child is discipline. Most of those who can't/won't see the difference don't have kids but agendas. My son learned the meaning of "Mercy" when I sent him upstairs for a spanking and when I got there I told him I was going to have mercy and not spank him even though he knew his behavior warranted it. From then on he always begged for mercy, luckily he was old enough that he didn’t cross that line many more times.0 -
Apparently you haven't seen the video...Why would anyone want to hit a child?? :noway:
CLAP CLAP CLAP
FYI : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/21/karen-klein-video-bullied_n_1615622.html
Seen it hours ago.0 -
I don't think hitting children is the issue here. Too many parents want to be their child's friend. I am a teacher, and I have so many parents saying that they can't "make" their child do homework or study. I have had parents tell me that they can't get their child off of the computer...
My response to that is -- who provides the computer... the cell phone... the whatever? The things we give our children are not their birthright. They should earn them.
Parents don't provide appropriate consequences for undesired behavior. Once a parent thinks, "I can't do anything about it," they can't. Appropriate consequences are not necessarily spanking, but they might be.
The only time I ever spanked my daughter was when she was three and she ran into the street after we had told her to wait. I spanked her behind once and sat her down to talk about the reason for the spanking. She never went into the street again, and I can't ever remember spanking her again.
Appropriate consequences, good discussions about expectations, and consistent follow through. That is what children need to learn how to behave.
OK... I will get off of the soap box now. Glad my 3 children are grown:-)0 -
There's a huge difference between disciplining your child and abusing him or her. My parents spanked us. My brother needed it more than I did, usually time-out or going to my room without my toys was good enough for me. However, I also think that sometimes parents give their children TOO much room. My step-son is 9 now. We've never had to spank him except for once when he called his mom a b*tch. Otherwise, that kid knows his boundaries, and knows the consequences. He's smart, he pays a lot of attention. He used to make comments about the kids running around in QT instead of being good. He'd say, "Mama those are not good kids, huh?" And I'd say, "No, I'm sure they're good kids they just don't stay beside their parents and be as good as you when they're out." Very clear lines were drawn for him, and we always stuck to them. Sometimes I think parents let their kids blur those lines too much, and that's when kids start misbehaving and finding that the normal types of punishments don't work. Perhaps we just were lucky with Gage, but the younger kids in the family were all raised the same way, and none of them seem to need much discipline.
My little brother, however, was the kid who didn't listen at all. He screamed just to hear himself, was constantly disobedient, running out into traffic, and doing whatever he could to shred our mom's nerves. I know that some kids are just that way. Nothing Mom did made any difference it seemed. She spanked him with a wooden spoon and when it broke (it was old), he LAUGHED at her. I'm not trying to put down anyone's parenting skills, so please don't take this wrong. I just think that sometimes our kids just need clear black-and-white lines. I can't tell Gage that he can't have ice cream after 8pm if his dad lets him eat it until 9 when I'm not home.0 -
Aack. This whole conversation is very scary. We should not beat our children into submission and use fear as a tactic. This method of education is how we have gotten to a world full of college educated people who cannot solve a problem. They have been trained to follow the leader and do as told rather than provide well formulated critique and apply critical thinking skills. I can't believe how many bright college educated people ask me to tell them what to do rather than work to figure it out. We don't value or encourage questioning or critical thinking in our children. Instead we value submission. I'm afraid of what kind of future that will leave us. Although a child who asks questions and does not want to go along with the group can be annoying as he** it is a quality we need in adults and it needs to be encouraged in our children. Spanking will do nothing to encourage respect, critical thinking or any other qualities that make for a happy, productive, contributing adult. Well, that's my 2 cents to this provocative question. Good luck to everone in their endeavors to build the next generation that will be making the decisions when we are the old folks in the rocking chairs
:-)0 -
What I want to know is why the bus driver did not turn the bus around and return to school? Those bullies should have been left with the principal and the remaining children brought home.0
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As an adult who used to be an abused child, I will never, ever, EVER hit my children. I don't hit my dog. I don't hit other people. To resort to laying a hand on another being only displays your lack of ability to deal with the situation in a constructive manner, which just shows weakness, not strength. And your children don't respect your opinions and your requests, they are simply afraid of you.
I am a firm believer that treating your child like a human being, yet, starting young, create a strong foundation of consequences for actions is necessary. Nowadays, I feel there is no consistency and follow up for mis-behavior. And more parents are interested in making money than giving attention to their children. Even though you may be spanking that child, at least you are paying attention to them. Children shouldn't have to resort to poor behavior to obtain their parent's attention.
I'm not saying this is your case, or anyone's in particular. This is my opinion based on what I have seen. And how I have felt.
I do not believe those children wouldn't have bullied the bus monitor if they had been spanked. I believe they wouldn't have bullied the bus monitor if their parents had showed them the consequences of hurting someone's feelings.
First, I am so sorry for what happened to you as a child. How wonderful that your child/children will not have that pattern repeated in their lives. Your observation is the most important post today. Children HAVE to be taught EMPATHY from a very early age. Without it, their lives are doomed, as well as, anyone that crosses their paths in life!0 -
Aack. This whole conversation is very scary. We should not beat our children into submission and use fear as a tactic. This method of education is how we have gotten to a world full of college educated people who cannot solve a problem. They have been trained to follow the leader and do as told rather than provide well formulated critique and apply critical thinking skills. I can't believe how many bright college educated people ask me to tell them what to do rather than work to figure it out. We don't value or encourage questioning or critical thinking in our children. Instead we value submission. I'm afraid of what kind of future that will leave us. Although a child who asks questions and does not want to go along with the group can be annoying as he** it is a quality we need in adults and it needs to be encouraged in our children. Spanking will do nothing to encourage respect, critical thinking or any other qualities that make for a happy, productive, contributing adult. Well, that's my 2 cents to this provocative question. Good luck to everone in their endeavors to build the next generation that will be making the decisions when we are the old folks in the rocking chairs
:-)
This.0 -
The youth today seem to be guided less by their parents and more by social media and their peers. Basic levels of respect, both for themselves and others has gone out the window. There seems to be no honor, no moral standards, no respect of people or property, no value of life, no God....a lost generation. TRAGIC!0
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Why would anyone want to hit a child?? :noway:
You don't want to hit a child just like you don't want to ground them but certain actions require different punishments. My kids knew well and good that a spanking meant they really messed up. I can count on one hand how many times I needed to spank but I can count on one finger how many times they did what they did to earn it.
Sigh. The emphasis was on child.
Why would anyone hit a child?
Is that better? Forget the "want" part.
Hitting a child is abuse, spanking a child is discipline. Most of those who can't/won't see the difference don't have kids but agendas. My son learned the meaning of "Mercy" when I sent him upstairs for a spanking and when I got there I told him I was going to have mercy and not spank him even though he knew his behavior warranted it. From then on he always begged for mercy, luckily he was old enough that he didn’t cross that line many more times.
Spanking is NOT discipline. Discipline is teaching and guiding your child. Spanking is a PUNISHMENT.0
This discussion has been closed.
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